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Post by mrholmes on Sept 10, 2014 19:38:32 GMT -6
I Don't think they are devaluing music, I see this as a band that was once as big as the Beatles struggling to stay relevant without Judgeing the latest singing competition show! Bono already learned Jagger is much better at managing the money, and he can't save the world. This is his way of staying on the radar without doing the dog and poney show like everybody else. Can't wait for the Edge to write a children's book like Keith Richards. Sarcastic? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 10, 2014 20:16:02 GMT -6
If HBO can protect themselves, then the music industry should be able to figure out a way also, it's called legal precedent?... google isn't bigger than that. Whats going on IS STEALING plain and simple, if you make a hi profile example out of pirates, you fear the normal people into saying "no way, not me!", see- "this is your brain on drugs", that shit worked to a large degree, it was just applied in the wrong way, it's like putting a deadbolt lock on your front door, it keeps the honest people honest, the real crooks don't even bother to see if your back door is unlocked when they kick it the fuck in! You could VERY easily walk into a 7-11 and steal a candy bar(incidentally worth more than a fucking song?) with next to 0 chance of getting caught, why don't you do it? because there are consequences for the 1 in 1,000,000 chance you do get caught, that's why. Game set match.
When stealing becomes culturally acceptable, a society is on it's way down the shitter, and any people who knowingly turn a blind eye to such obvious crime(especially those being robbed!!!! let alone a hi profile band with mega power and clout), they are of flogg worthy culpability IMO.
These guys could have easily afforded a hi profile anti piracy awareness campaign that appealed to peoples sense of justice and fairness to working people in the music industry, instead they decided to bolster an illicit paradigm that music is free and valueless. The worst part of this disfunction is the on going decimation of the future talent pool, that the impression of valuelessness will continue to create. The average idiot knows nothing of Ubooos! back room deal with apple, all they know is "dude huh huh, U2's record is free bra! now i don't have to steal it".
The arguments stated above are tantamount to "if you cant beat the criminals, join the criminals" or at least figure out a way to get a little taste in the black market IMO
U2's behavior here is inexcusable for a band that claims such a superior level of consciousness smh
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 10, 2014 20:25:05 GMT -6
YouTube put the last nail in the coffin for music. Statistics show that nearly 90% of consumed music is from YouTube. That's the way an unknown bonehead like me can get heard. It's musical democracy. To have fans all over the world for free is liberating. It's great for a hobbyist, bad for a career musician. If you have low expectations, YouTube is just what the doctor ordered. Jim it's not unknowns I'm talking about. It's major label artists. ALL of them release their music to Vevo. If you go to billboard, you'll find a video link to every song on the top 40 to Vevo(YouTube). Major labels don't even try to fight it anymore. And it's all free to listen to as many times as you want. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 10, 2014 21:41:14 GMT -6
I'm glad you two are willing to give up getting a decent wage. Who is willing to give up getting a decent wage? Not me. I'm just finding a different way to make the $$$ roll in. I suppose I could sit around and bitch about people stealing my music (happening hundreds if not thousands of times a day I'd hazard to guess) but that's not going to give me a positive life outlook, and it's not going to feed my family. Owning a studio and selling time in 2014 is about a dead as being a blacksmith. There are still opportunities out there, but it's not a good path to go down if you have the choice. As long as I'm writing and producing music for a living, I'm happy. And in reality, I'm closer to the dream I had when I was 20 than I was 10 years ago - so shoot me. If you ask me, I'm blessed. I'm still not happy or satisfied with the state of affairs in the music biz, but I've found that embracing new paradigms is far more profitable and engaging than griping about how things used to be. Now mind you, I do a fair share of griping, but I try to embrace the new and find creative solutions. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 10, 2014 22:34:40 GMT -6
But this is a thread about bands giving their product away - yet you made it a thread about you...color me shocked.
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Post by drbill on Sept 10, 2014 22:45:18 GMT -6
Sorry man. I thought the real picture was a little larger than just U2 and their latest. Apologies. The only perspective I have is my own.
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Post by donr on Sept 10, 2014 23:11:36 GMT -6
My favorite aphorism, first heard 35 yrs ago, was "ride the horse in the direction it's going."
Good advice. Accept what's so, behave and plan accordingly. No one (especially government,) is going to 'fix' this so the music business returns to what it was like in 1970. Ain't gonna happen. Stay attuned to what is and adapt.
For publishers, there's some hope of continuance, they have a lobby. For artists, adapt or diminish. There's no lobby or union for artists. Which used to be a good thing. Do you think record companies didn't throw their corporate weight trying to save themselves, if there was a solution to "piracy"? I'm sure they tried, but there isn't. Recorded music just isn't worth today what is was 20 years ago.
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 11, 2014 6:54:01 GMT -6
That's the way an unknown bonehead like me can get heard. It's musical democracy. To have fans all over the world for free is liberating. It's great for a hobbyist, bad for a career musician. If you have low expectations, YouTube is just what the doctor ordered. Jim it's not unknowns I'm talking about. It's major label artists. ALL of them release their music to Vevo. If you go to billboard, you'll find a video link to every song on the top 40 to Vevo(YouTube). Major labels don't even try to fight it anymore. And it's all free to listen to as many times as you want. They do not fight against it because they have very proficient contracts with Google Inc. They earn a lot of cash with YT. The truth is taht with the popularity of those services manipulation of the masses even gets easier. All this has nothing to do anymore with creating, making music or pushing an artist because he has talent. I will be very happy when Pono is ready to go. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 11, 2014 6:59:26 GMT -6
I'm very well aware of the iceberg - I'm here on the South end of the Titanic - but I refuse to just go down with the ship. The government CAN help with this - e.g. the Songwriter's Equity Act. Music is more valuable a commodity than it has been in the history of modern culture. So valuable, that people are willing to spend hours stealing it. People care about it. The problem is that it is being given away free by services that derive their incomes from other advertising and our compensation in return is and should be illegal. It is 10,000 times below minimum wage.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2014 8:03:05 GMT -6
Johnn At least once a week I get a email from google if I buy this app Ill get to down load this album Ill never download for free.
They are not de valuing music, they are packaging music.
It's like a coupon or a 2 for one deal they are giving the customer something he perceives as value to move something. Now they know 1/2 the people who buy the app won't will forget the free download and a bunch will buy the album and not go for the cheap app.
In the case of the U2 it's Apple trying to stand out, desperate its self from everybody else. It's marketing, we are giving you U2 free! Wow we are soooo cool!
Apple is trying to show its still cool without Steve Jobs!
They don't know who they are but that stock price is tied to how cool they are, they need the 35-60 year old to buy the IPhone 6 the stupid Apple watch, and buy the stock!
That singular, overbearing Vision of the guy in the Black turtleneck is gone ! Bono wants to be jobs his investment in RIM bombed, he hangs with Bill Gates, Now maybe it would have been better had they priced it at $9.99 and given it all to fight Ebola, but they like us so much it's just free oh shucks Apple likes me they really like me!
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 11, 2014 9:19:22 GMT -6
Johnn At least once a week I get a email from google if I buy this app Ill get to down load this album Ill never download for free. They are not de valuing music, they are packaging music. It's like a coupon or a 2 for one deal they are giving the customer something he perceives as value to move something. Now they know 1/2 the people who buy the app won't will forget the free download and a bunch will buy the album and not go for the cheap app. In the case of the U2 it's Apple trying to stand out, desperate its self from everybody else. It's marketing, we are giving you U2 free! Wow we are soooo cool! Apple is trying to show its still cool without Steve Jobs! They don't know who they are but that stock price is tied to how cool they are, they need the 35-60 year old to buy the IPhone 6 the stupid Apple watch, and buy the stock! That singular, overbearing Vision of the guy in the Black turtleneck is gone ! Bono wants to be jobs his investment in RIM bombed, he hangs with Bill Gates, Now maybe it would have been better had they priced it at $9.99 and given it all to fight Ebola, but they like us so much it's just free oh shucks Apple likes me they really like me! I totally agree we are just before a new digital buble. It is simple too much, a information overflow. And to be true who feels good if he gets something for free. I am at least want to give something in return - if it is good music. The we get it for free internet community is annoying me. We are one big family etc.... I promise we will see a second dot com bubble and with this hopefully a normalization of business. PS: For those of us who can read german. A very nice reaction by a famous german radio station: www.srf.ch/radio-srf-3/musik/musik-blog/danke-bono-du-arschgutzi |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 11, 2014 9:50:15 GMT -6
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Post by wiz on Sept 11, 2014 15:10:02 GMT -6
There are laws in place, certainly here in Australia, and in the USA to protect the rights and incomes of songwriters.
They just don't get enforced adequately (if at all)
if 1/10th of the money lost by our industry, was taken in online fraud from any major commercial entity/industry.. do you think for one second it would be allowed to continue?
Imagine, if the financial industry had a problem with online money transfers?
cheers
Wiz
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Post by mobeach on Sept 11, 2014 15:47:37 GMT -6
they're not giving away their music at all. they've signed a deal with the only people in town paying for music and that will result in an automatic number one hit because so many people will have access. that then increases the value of their product and the wheel spins around and around. What normally constitutes a #1 hit? Can they achieve that in this format? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 11, 2014 17:06:57 GMT -6
There are laws in place, certainly here in Australia, and in the USA to protect the rights and incomes of songwriters. They just don't get enforced adequately (if at all) if 1/10th of the money lost by our industry, was taken in online fraud from any major commercial entity/industry.. do you think for one second it would be allowed to continue? Imagine, if the financial industry had a problem with online money transfers? cheers Wiz Well, that's not necessarily true. While it is obviously protection against copyright theft, songwriters and publishers aren't able to control how their copyrights are licensed. Right now, in the US, they can't pick and choose who they will license a song to. If you license a song, it is then open for anyone to use without any price agreement. Read that article I posted... |
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Post by gouge on Sept 12, 2014 9:17:17 GMT -6
they're not giving away their music at all. they've signed a deal with the only people in town paying for music and that will result in an automatic number one hit because so many people will have access. that then increases the value of their product and the wheel spins around and around. What normally constitutes a #1 hit? Can they achieve that in this format? iTunes has charts. |
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Post by mobeach on Sept 12, 2014 9:18:59 GMT -6
iTunes never used to be in the equation. I thought it was Billboard Magazine and the UK charts.
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Post by gouge on Sept 12, 2014 9:26:17 GMT -6
yea. it makes no difference to me, I don't listen to commercial music. what's iTunes. lol.
it is international though so if you are polling high on iTunes then someone is making money. |
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Post by mobeach on Sept 12, 2014 9:46:08 GMT -6
The only time I've listened to iTunes is when I was sampling tracks on Amazon.com before buying a CD.
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Post by kidvybes on Sept 12, 2014 10:52:23 GMT -6
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Post by LesC on Sept 12, 2014 11:57:16 GMT -6
That's hilarious! I loved the Joshua Tree album, but I haven't liked anything U2 has done since. It seemed to me that they were just trying to cash in on whatever the latest teenie-bopper trend was.
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Post by donr on Sept 12, 2014 13:19:48 GMT -6
iTunes has become the largest single source of income for Blue Oyster Cult's legacy record sales. The rest of digital purveyors are also rans. Physical product is about 15% of revenue and fading fast.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 12, 2014 13:34:03 GMT -6
that is funny! i hope it's true... |
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Post by matt on Sept 12, 2014 20:13:12 GMT -6
If U2's latest tanks, it looks like Apple will be the biggest loser: U2's iTunes Deal Reportedly Cost Apple $100 MillionThe amount of money in the world is crazy. Too bad wealth is so concentrated; even all the charity donations such as Apple's to RED and other groups amounts to a tiny fraction of the trillions held by business and their partners in government (and crime?). |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 12, 2014 21:53:04 GMT -6
If U2's latest tanks, it looks like Apple will be the biggest loser: U2's iTunes Deal Reportedly Cost Apple $100 MillionThe amount of money in the world is crazy. Too bad wealth is so concentrated; even all the charity donations such as Apple's to RED and other groups amounts to a tiny fraction of the trillions held by business and their partners in government (and crime?). Holy shit... |
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