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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2024 12:49:34 GMT -6
I got these three amp sims included as part of my Spark subscription. Though I'm a long time true UA plugins fan - I'm must I'm a bit underwhelmed. The Dream 65 does sound good in isolation but it sounds a bit weak compared to a similar amp in S-gear V3. And then when I push my Tone King Imperial mk2 into my Waza Tube Amp Expander all my sims just sound artificial (yes I realise they are artificial) the tube amp just "sings" and sounds so much richer and musical especially in the all important mids not to mention the touch - proper dynamic response to touch! Obviously not a fair comparison as one's a boutique tube amp hardware and cutting edge Boss WAZA tech. but still it's useful for me to compare. Of the three sims, the Dream 65 stands out as having some of the vibe of my Princeton amp though a bit hollow and kinda floaty. I'll be using the Dream 65 in any writing sessions when I'm on my laptop - I do enjoy playing through it. I’m starting to think you and I agree about pretty much nothing. Seems like you have the opposite take on the majority of what I post. Don’t mean that in a bad way, it’s just interesting how people hear things differently. |
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Post by phantom on Oct 27, 2024 13:54:20 GMT -6
I got these three amp sims included as part of my Spark subscription. Though I'm a long time true UA plugins fan - I'm must I'm a bit underwhelmed. The Dream 65 does sound good in isolation but it sounds a bit weak compared to a similar amp in S-gear V3. And then when I push my Tone King Imperial mk2 into my Waza Tube Amp Expander all my sims just sound artificial (yes I realise they are artificial) the tube amp just "sings" and sounds so much richer and musical especially in the all important mids not to mention the touch - proper dynamic response to touch! Obviously not a fair comparison as one's a boutique tube amp hardware and cutting edge Boss WAZA tech. but still it's useful for me to compare. Of the three sims, the Dream 65 stands out as having some of the vibe of my Princeton amp though a bit hollow and kinda floaty. I'll be using the Dream 65 in any writing sessions when I'm on my laptop - I do enjoy playing through it. I have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and I've compared it to the Dream plugin using the same IR for both. I'm capturing the amp with a Fractal X-Load or a Suhr Reactive Load - these units are usually regarded as the best load boxes out there, probably better than the Waza for this job. All I can say is that I don't see much reason to use the real amp in this case scenario. They both sound pretty much the same for me. Oh, the reverbs do differs a lot, at least from my unit. And of course, the amp will remain useful for playing live and when I want to mic it. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2024 13:58:47 GMT -6
Yeah - I mean, if I’m doing something important and had a real amp I could mic and crank - I’d choose that over any sim. But you ever cranked an AC-30? It’s…loud.
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 27, 2024 14:06:54 GMT -6
Yeah - I mean, if I’m doing something important and had a real amp I could mic and crank - I’d choose that over any sim. But you ever cranked an AC-30? It’s…loud. The WAZA tube amp expander is absolutely amazing. I can use the built in IR's which have a half dozen parameters for altering mic position etc. But it's re-amping is it's strength, an amp in the sweet spot (which as you say is LOUD) can be re-amped out to a cab any where from loud down to conversational volume for micing. I''m finding it to be brilliant for recording. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 27, 2024 14:15:33 GMT -6
I got these three amp sims included as part of my Spark subscription. Though I'm a long time true UA plugins fan - I'm must I'm a bit underwhelmed. The Dream 65 does sound good in isolation but it sounds a bit weak compared to a similar amp in S-gear V3. And then when I push my Tone King Imperial mk2 into my Waza Tube Amp Expander all my sims just sound artificial (yes I realise they are artificial) the tube amp just "sings" and sounds so much richer and musical especially in the all important mids not to mention the touch - proper dynamic response to touch! Obviously not a fair comparison as one's a boutique tube amp hardware and cutting edge Boss WAZA tech. but still it's useful for me to compare. Of the three sims, the Dream 65 stands out as having some of the vibe of my Princeton amp though a bit hollow and kinda floaty. I'll be using the Dream 65 in any writing sessions when I'm on my laptop - I do enjoy playing through it. I have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and I've compared it to the Dream plugin using the same IR for both. I'm capturing the amp with a Fractal X-Load or a Suhr Reactive Load - these units are usually regarded as the best load boxes out there, probably better than the Waza for this job. All I can say is that I don't see much reason to use the real amp in this case scenario. They both sound pretty much the same for me. Oh, the reverbs do differs a lot, at least from my unit. And of course, the amp will remain useful for playing live and when I want to mic it. I have had the Shur here and compared to the WAZA I far prefer the TAE variable reactive load - that can be dialed in and the WAZA re-amping facility is truly brilliant imho. My Tone King Imperial is totally different to the Dream 65 sim - different world on every level for me. Aside from micing it - the IR implementation in the WAZA is considerably more sophisticated than the Shur IR I've used - in as much there are many parameters to dial in and the variable reactive load has controls to match the reactive load to the IR selection. The WAZA cost me twice the price of the Suhr IR - but I've been very impressed by the tech - I was sceptical it was going to live up to Roland's hype but you know it's far exceed by expectations. Combined with my Tone King Imperial or Princeton Reverb I'm blown away with the results. So much so, I've decided to add an AC-30 to my amp collection. Another I've noticed about using a tube amp with the TAE, because the tone really sings, I use less notes than when I play with an amp sim. It's an odd thing - perhaps it's about harmonic content or richness of tone - but I prefer my arangments. I have a question for you. I have a decent pedal board I use with my amps - a few pedals like my Mythical OD (Klon clone) interact with my tube amps in a really beautiful way and just goose the front end in a very appealing edge of distortion kind of tone that I so enjoy playing. How do you use pedals with your sim - my analog pedal board doesn't interact with a sim in a way I find musical. Are you using software pedals - or no pedals at all? |
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Post by phantom on Oct 27, 2024 14:47:40 GMT -6
I have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and I've compared it to the Dream plugin using the same IR for both. I'm capturing the amp with a Fractal X-Load or a Suhr Reactive Load - these units are usually regarded as the best load boxes out there, probably better than the Waza for this job. All I can say is that I don't see much reason to use the real amp in this case scenario. They both sound pretty much the same for me. Oh, the reverbs do differs a lot, at least from my unit. And of course, the amp will remain useful for playing live and when I want to mic it. I have had the Shur here and compared to the WAZA I far prefer the TAE variable reactive load - that can be dialed in and the WAZA re-amping facility is truly brilliant imho. My Tone King Imperial is totally different to the Dream 65 sim - different world on every level for me. Aside from micing it - the IR implementation in the WAZA is considerably more sophisticated than the Shur IR I've used - in as much there are many parameters to dial in and the variable reactive load has controls to match the reactive load to the IR selection. The WAZA cost me twice the price of the Suhr IR - but I've been very impressed by the tech - I was sceptical it was going to live up to Roland's hype but you know it's far exceed by expectations. Combined with my Tone King Imperial or Princeton Reverb I'm blown away with the results. So much so, I've decided to add an AC-30 to my amp collection. I never tried the Waza, but I really don't need it's features, and from all comparisons I've heard online, the Fractal X-Load, and the Suhr (my second pick) always performed better. Like in these videos: |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 27, 2024 14:52:25 GMT -6
I have had the Shur here and compared to the WAZA I far prefer the TAE variable reactive load - that can be dialed in and the WAZA re-amping facility is truly brilliant imho. My Tone King Imperial is totally different to the Dream 65 sim - different world on every level for me. Aside from micing it - the IR implementation in the WAZA is considerably more sophisticated than the Shur IR I've used - in as much there are many parameters to dial in and the variable reactive load has controls to match the reactive load to the IR selection. The WAZA cost me twice the price of the Suhr IR - but I've been very impressed by the tech - I was sceptical it was going to live up to Roland's hype but you know it's far exceed by expectations. Combined with my Tone King Imperial or Princeton Reverb I'm blown away with the results. So much so, I've decided to add an AC-30 to my amp collection. I never tried the Waza, but I really don't need it's features, and from all comparisons I've heard online, the Fractal X-Load, and the Suhr (my second pick) always performed better. Like in these videos: Yes, I've heard online comparisons. Then I actually got a few devices into my studio and .... Hands down the WAZA blew me away. It's THE best guitar oriented purchase I've made in the last 15 years. But, I do need and greatly value all it's features - so that makes a difference and I have a very large analog pedal collection that I love to use getting guitar tones. So we all have very different production goals. My favourite set-up would be a vault like Tim Pierce with a 4x10 cranked to stage volume - not going to happen any time soon  |
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Post by wiz on Oct 27, 2024 15:05:56 GMT -6
I got these three amp sims included as part of my Spark subscription. Though I'm a long time true UA plugins fan - I'm must I'm a bit underwhelmed. The Dream 65 does sound good in isolation but it sounds a bit weak compared to a similar amp in S-gear V3. And then when I push my Tone King Imperial mk2 into my Waza Tube Amp Expander all my sims just sound artificial (yes I realise they are artificial) the tube amp just "sings" and sounds so much richer and musical especially in the all important mids not to mention the touch - proper dynamic response to touch! Obviously not a fair comparison as one's a boutique tube amp hardware and cutting edge Boss WAZA tech. but still it's useful for me to compare. Of the three sims, the Dream 65 stands out as having some of the vibe of my Princeton amp though a bit hollow and kinda floaty. I'll be using the Dream 65 in any writing sessions when I'm on my laptop - I do enjoy playing through it. Could you please post an example of the tone king vs the dream? cheers Wiz |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2024 16:17:29 GMT -6
I have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and I've compared it to the Dream plugin using the same IR for both. I'm capturing the amp with a Fractal X-Load or a Suhr Reactive Load - these units are usually regarded as the best load boxes out there, probably better than the Waza for this job. All I can say is that I don't see much reason to use the real amp in this case scenario. They both sound pretty much the same for me. Oh, the reverbs do differs a lot, at least from my unit. And of course, the amp will remain useful for playing live and when I want to mic it. I have had the Shur here and compared to the WAZA I far prefer the TAE variable reactive load - that can be dialed in and the WAZA re-amping facility is truly brilliant imho. My Tone King Imperial is totally different to the Dream 65 sim - different world on every level for me. Aside from micing it - the IR implementation in the WAZA is considerably more sophisticated than the Shur IR I've used - in as much there are many parameters to dial in and the variable reactive load has controls to match the reactive load to the IR selection. The WAZA cost me twice the price of the Suhr IR - but I've been very impressed by the tech - I was sceptical it was going to live up to Roland's hype but you know it's far exceed by expectations. Combined with my Tone King Imperial or Princeton Reverb I'm blown away with the results. So much so, I've decided to add an AC-30 to my amp collection. Another I've noticed about using a tube amp with the TAE, because the tone really sings, I use less notes than when I play with an amp sim. It's an odd thing - perhaps it's about harmonic content or richness of tone - but I prefer my arangments. I have a question for you. I have a decent pedal board I use with my amps - a few pedals like my Mythical OD (Klon clone) interact with my tube amps in a really beautiful way and just goose the front end in a very appealing edge of distortion kind of tone that I so enjoy playing. How do you use pedals with your sim - my analog pedal board doesn't interact with a sim in a way I find musical. Are you using software pedals - or no pedals at all? You should post samples. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2024 16:19:38 GMT -6
I got these three amp sims included as part of my Spark subscription. Though I'm a long time true UA plugins fan - I'm must I'm a bit underwhelmed. The Dream 65 does sound good in isolation but it sounds a bit weak compared to a similar amp in S-gear V3. And then when I push my Tone King Imperial mk2 into my Waza Tube Amp Expander all my sims just sound artificial (yes I realise they are artificial) the tube amp just "sings" and sounds so much richer and musical especially in the all important mids not to mention the touch - proper dynamic response to touch! Obviously not a fair comparison as one's a boutique tube amp hardware and cutting edge Boss WAZA tech. but still it's useful for me to compare. Of the three sims, the Dream 65 stands out as having some of the vibe of my Princeton amp though a bit hollow and kinda floaty. I'll be using the Dream 65 in any writing sessions when I'm on my laptop - I do enjoy playing through it. Could you please post an example of the tone king vs the dream? cheers Wiz The tone king is definitely more tweed based circuit I believe, right? Why would Dream sound like it? |
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Post by wiz on Oct 27, 2024 16:36:26 GMT -6
Could you please post an example of the tone king vs the dream? cheers Wiz The tone king is definitely more tweed based circuit I believe, right? Why would Dream sound like it? The tone king I had... which was version 1..... was sort of both... one channel was like blackface and the other was sort of tweed.... It really was a beautiful amp.....I sold it... because miking it was a hassle....and it was too beautiful to bash around doing gigs...I had been using a fender Princeton re issue for couple of decades live.... that even got too heavy for me...and now I use a Tonemaster Princeton. (back issues) cheers Wiz |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 27, 2024 18:36:43 GMT -6
Could you please post an example of the tone king vs the dream? cheers Wiz The tone king is definitely more tweed based circuit I believe, right? Why would Dream sound like it? The Tone King Imperial MK2 was originally built to replicate the Blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb on the rhythm channel along with the renowned Fender Tweed amps on the lead channel On the rhythm channel it's a great sounding DR to my ears. The Lead channel is a totally different circuit and can actually be driven to be almost Marshallesque. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 27, 2024 18:45:14 GMT -6
The tone king is definitely more tweed based circuit I believe, right? Why would Dream sound like it? The tone king I had... which was version 1..... was sort of both... one channel was like blackface and the other was sort of tweed.... It really was a beautiful amp.....I sold it... because miking it was a hassle....and it was too beautiful to bash around doing gigs...I had been using a fender Princeton re issue for couple of decades live.... that even got too heavy for me...and now I use a Tonemaster Princeton. (back issues) cheers Wiz I bought the MK2 version as a head and a separate 1x12 cab. I had the cab in a different room and I could wind the amp up and it sounded really great with an AEA 92 on it and a 57. Then I lost the ability to do that and so I had to find a solution and ended up with the WAZA Tube amp expander. The Tone King mk2 actually comes with a built in Iron Man II attenuator but it makes the amp feel a bit spongy - which the TAE doesn't (very different tech I guess) The Tone King mk2 doesn't have a master volume only an input gain (like a DR) and these amps actually sound best driving the 6V6 output tubes but that means LOUD! So that's why the designer added the Iron Man II to the design - to act a sort of master volume - it's just not great feel wise. I think the engineers at Boss have created a better solution in the TAE - it even works with my Princeton 68 custom reverb - though they sound better at lower volumes anyway. |
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Post by Quint on Oct 28, 2024 12:55:08 GMT -6
The tone king I had... which was version 1..... was sort of both... one channel was like blackface and the other was sort of tweed.... It really was a beautiful amp.....I sold it... because miking it was a hassle....and it was too beautiful to bash around doing gigs...I had been using a fender Princeton re issue for couple of decades live.... that even got too heavy for me...and now I use a Tonemaster Princeton. (back issues) cheers Wiz I bought the MK2 version as a head and a separate 1x12 cab. I had the cab in a different room and I could wind the amp up and it sounded really great with an AEA 92 on it and a 57. Then I lost the ability to do that and so I had to find a solution and ended up with the WAZA Tube amp expander. The Tone King mk2 actually comes with a built in Iron Man II attenuator but it makes the amp feel a bit spongy - which the TAE doesn't (very different tech I guess) The Tone King mk2 doesn't have a master volume only an input gain (like a DR) and these amps actually sound best driving the 6V6 output tubes but that means LOUD! So that's why the designer added the Iron Man II to the design - to act a sort of master volume - it's just not great feel wise. I think the engineers at Boss have created a better solution in the TAE - it even works with my Princeton 68 custom reverb - though they sound better at lower volumes anyway. Guess I gotta take a look at the Waza TAE. Didn't even know this existed. |
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Post by Quint on Oct 28, 2024 13:00:36 GMT -6
Yeah - I mean, if I’m doing something important and had a real amp I could mic and crank - I’d choose that over any sim. But you ever cranked an AC-30? It’s…loud. The WAZA tube amp expander is absolutely amazing. I can use the built in IR's which have a half dozen parameters for altering mic position etc. But it's re-amping is it's strength, an amp in the sweet spot (which as you say is LOUD) can be re-amped out to a cab any where from loud down to conversational volume for micing. I''m finding it to be brilliant for recording. You mentioned reamping. Where is the line in on the TAE for this purpose? I must be missing something. |
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Post by sirthought on Oct 28, 2024 21:36:31 GMT -6
What sort of latency are people getting with the UADx amp sims? Just interested to know what might come up.
The idea that you'd depend on the Dream or Ruby to write your song, then bring a band in to track it, and couldn't track that all live through console seems really strange for working with UAD.
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On the OTHER discussion here...I had really researched Ox Box and Waza TAE when they were released a few years ago. The Waza seemed to have way more features that were interesting, but it ALSO was sending your amp sound through a whole round of conversion. This didn't sound appealing to me, as I question how good of converters are going into a Boss consumer product? Even if you run a line out into your interface, you are hearing a signal touched by the onboard converters. Now, I've never tried one, but that detail made me hesitate. And I was really thinking the TAE would be cool with all the Boss effects thrown in there. (Yes, options are good.)
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 29, 2024 8:33:15 GMT -6
The WAZA tube amp expander is absolutely amazing. I can use the built in IR's which have a half dozen parameters for altering mic position etc. But it's re-amping is it's strength, an amp in the sweet spot (which as you say is LOUD) can be re-amped out to a cab any where from loud down to conversational volume for micing. I''m finding it to be brilliant for recording. You mentioned reamping. Where is the line in on the TAE for this purpose? I must be missing something. Sorry, it's my sloppy terminology. What I meant is the TAE contains a very nice sounding 100W amp. So after you've used the variable reactive load to silence your driven tube amp (at which point the only option for most units it to use IR's) the TAE can then be attached to your guitar cab and it "re-amps" the guitar signal back out at whatever volume you want - from crazy loud to conversational level - entirely independent of the level of drive of your tube amp. At first I thought this just turns my $3K tube amp in a Boss Katana LOL ....  But now I have the unit that's not at all how it sounds, the 100W solid state amp built into the WAZA TAE sounds absolutely fantastic and is clearly something totally different to the amps in the Katana series of amps. So I basically get my Tone King Imperial really singing sweetly ( let's be honest here - as only a tube amp can) and then I either use the built in IR's if it's late at night or if it's day time I put my mics on the Imperial 1x12 cab and record at sensible volumes but with the tone of the amp really driven - in practice it works brilliantly. It was this set up or investing in a Fractal system and for me after demoing everything I was totally sold on the Tube Amp Expander as it can do everything. You can take a Princeton Reverb and "re-amp it out" into a 4x10 and have it a stage volumes using the 100W amp in the TAE. Fayette have a similar device - but for me the TAE has the better variable reative load and IR implementation. If you're into tube amps - I think they're truly brilliant - crazy flexible. I'm a fan |
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Post by Henry_Berg on Oct 31, 2024 23:17:39 GMT -6
What sort of latency are people getting with the UADx amp sims? Just interested to know what might come up. The idea that you'd depend on the Dream or Ruby to write your song, then bring a band in to track it, and couldn't track that all live through console seems really strange for working with UAD. ----------- That is questin as well. Pretendidng you an an apollo x8, can you plug the guitar into the Di, insert the UADxa amps into logic/LUNA (as 64 samples I guess) and play woithout being worried bu latency UAD has now 3 plugins PACK for €99+VAT, so I could buy the 3 amps for that price, which would be killer, only concern is latency, caus it would skip Console altogether. Is it playable through an apollo just plugged into the DI? Thx |
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Post by Henry_Berg on Oct 31, 2024 23:19:05 GMT -6
What sort of latency are people getting with the UADx amp sims? Just interested to know what might come up. The idea that you'd depend on the Dream or Ruby to write your song, then bring a band in to track it, and couldn't track that all live through console seems really strange for working with UAD. That is my question as well. Assumming you have an Apollo x8/p/x4 or similiar, can you plug the guitar into the Di, insert the UADxa amps into logic/LUNA (at 64 samples 44/48kHz, I guess) and play without being annoyed by the latency?  UAD has now 3 plugins SELECT BUNDLE for €119, so I could buy the 3 amps for that price, which would be killer, only concern is latency, cause it would skip Console altogether. Is it PLAYABLE through an apollo just plugged into the DI going I/O the DAW? Thx |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 31, 2024 23:31:58 GMT -6
----------- That is my question as well. Asumming you have an apollo x8/p/x4 or smiliar, can you plug the guitar into the Di, insert the UADxa amps into logic/LUNA (at 64 samples 49kHz, I guess) and play withihout being worried about latency? UAD has now 3 plugins PACK for €99+VAT, so I could buy the 3 amps for that price, which would be killer, only concern is latency, cause it would skip Console altogether. Is it playable through an apollo just plugged into the DI? Thx That’s what I’m using. I use a Mac Studio and if I get all the plugs off the master, 128 is very usable imo. |
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Post by Henry_Berg on Oct 31, 2024 23:35:39 GMT -6
----------- That is my question as well. Asumming you have an apollo x8/p/x4 or smiliar, can you plug the guitar into the Di, insert the UADxa amps into logic/LUNA (at 64 samples 49kHz, I guess) and play withihout being worried about latency? UAD has now 3 plugins PACK for €99+VAT, so I could buy the 3 amps for that price, which would be killer, only concern is latency, cause it would skip Console altogether. Is it playable through an apollo just plugged into the DI? Thx That’s what I’m using. I use a Mac Studio and if I get all the plugs off the master, 128 is very usable imo. Thx JOHN don't you feel the lag then ?? are you at 96khz or 48Khz ? I 'm on a M1 MAX MBP and apollo 8x, running either logic or LUNA, So I assume you put the Amp sim on a track on a DAW (luna?), monitor thorugh the DAW and assign the track to one of the Outputs in Console and then you insert the delay/reverbs (DSP) on that particular track in Console? Could you post a screen capture of the setup ? I'm not making my mind around this. thx!! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 1, 2024 1:36:20 GMT -6
That is my question as well. Assumming you have an Apollo x8/p/x4 or similiar, can you plug the guitar into the Di, insert the UADxa amps into logic/LUNA (at 64 samples 44/48kHz, I guess) and play without being annoyed by the latency? UAD has now 3 plugins SELECT BUNDLE for €119, so I could buy the 3 amps for that price, which would be killer, only concern is latency, cause it would skip Console altogether. Is it PLAYABLE through an apollo just plugged into the DI going I/O the DAW? Thx Where are you seeing the 3 bundle for £99 it was like $250 usd ? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 1, 2024 1:39:45 GMT -6
$109 usd now, guess a new sale, gee, if you just paid $149 per plug or $250 for 3, you won’t be happy: never buy on ua release price.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 1, 2024 2:51:08 GMT -6
Btw any coupons you may have in your ua account further discount current sale prices.
so, I have a $25 survey discount and it lower 3 plug select bundle price to $84, so could buy all 3 amp sims for that.
UA doesn’t normally allow for this sort of double discount, might be a bug, so don’t hesitate , likely won’t see better price.
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Post by Dan on Nov 1, 2024 7:45:35 GMT -6
Btw any coupons you may have in your ua account further discount current sale prices. so, I have a $25 survey discount and it lower 3 plug select bundle price to $84, so could buy all 3 amp sims for that. UA doesn’t normally allow for this sort of double discount, might be a bug, so don’t hesitate , likely won’t see better price. 30 a pop is what these should be. They just are a good hardware model that sets the gainstaging super low to start sounding boosted into a vintage amp and the boost knob emulates some pedals depending on where you set it into some processed, phase aligned irs that aren’t bad but not really exactly what you want compared to the ones that let you move the fake mic around and have more options with the same cab, speaker, and mic. These are probably going to end up like the Waves PRS models, which they’re pretty good but buried under all of the manufacturer’s other crap. The other thing is these guys are obviously modeling different amps. Softube’s plexi is way scuzzier than there’s but their superbass is dirtier than the Lemmy. Overloud can sound pretty similar too and Mercurial can only sorta do a plexi but it’s pretty “ai model of what some modern guitarist wants an amp to be but not nearly as bad as neural dsp” but it still sounds pretty similar if a bit more jcm 800 set like a plexi. |
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