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Post by veggieryan on Oct 11, 2024 11:34:57 GMT -6
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Post by veggieryan on Oct 11, 2024 11:55:48 GMT -6
Side note: I tested out the headphone outputs on my Apollo X6 again today just to see if they are as bad as I remember. I have been using the very good headphone amp on my Coleman Audio M3 monitor controller for years.
Yep the apollo headphone amp is just atrocious, even worse than I remember and I bet money they sound just as bad on the Gen 2 because is not a conversion problem. It's a problem with the amp they are using... yet they brag about lowering the noise floor of the conversion by 1db?
What good is the monitor controller with headphone correction if the headphone amps are unlistenable? I probably couldn't make headphone correction work with another set of outputs to use a decent headphone amp even if I wanted to.
This is the exact kind of thing that drives me nuts with UAD.
The amp on my Black Lion Revolution 2x2 is soooo much better and it's usb powered.... now I see Black Lion just released a new 14x16 Revolution that has a dedicated power supply. I bet it smokes the Apollo headphone amp, mic preamps, conversion, line outs, etc and its only $1,300... They even put analog inserts after the big boy preamps because that's what a real pro audio company does....
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2024 11:57:24 GMT -6
Exactly it's borderline false advertising. The console is so frustrating to use with its limited routing AND you can't even run the plugins you want on a single channel anyhow. Now that Mixwave is light years ahead of anything UAD is doing its just silly. UAD have thrown in the towel on DSP not only because their platform is hopelessly anemic but also because they lack the talent or leadership to produce quality plugins even with 4x the DSP power as seen in the UADFX amp pedals. The UADFX amps make it clear to my ears. The spin is "well I guess we should do a monitor controller with room correction now because we have to do something with this DSP" BTW: You can download the free version of Tonex and then download 20 of the free versions of Amalgam captures from tone net and you have tone and feel that no modeler plugin can even remotely get close to. It's absurd that this is FREE. just search "amalgam" once you login to tone.net in the tonex section.... Yep. Going forward, whatever small amount of DSP development that UA may actually do is going to be token, at best. Look at the Frankenstein 6176 plugin they released a while back. That was just cobbled together from existing parts. It took no real effort to make, but they wanted to at least give the appearance of still developing for DSP. Same with the room monitoring. Full throated development for UA DSP is dead in the water. |
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Post by andersmv on Oct 11, 2024 12:25:45 GMT -6
If I remember correctly, when the UAD Neve preamp came out, you couldn't run 8 of them on the 8p with the stock quad chips. At least you can run 8 preamps on the 6 core X models now  |
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2024 12:37:40 GMT -6
If I remember correctly, when the UAD Neve preamp came out, you couldn't run 8 of them on the 8p with the stock quad chips. At least you can run 8 preamps on the 6 core X models now I was kind of banking on them releasing a new Apollo with ARM processors or some other upgraded DSP. Afterall, we had been told time and time again by Drew that "DSP was going to be the backbone of the ecosystem for years to come". Also, UA had been releasing increasingly powerful plugins for native, that simply couldn't run on the old Sharcs. So upgraded DSP seemed to be inevitable, right? Well UA was blowing smoke up our ass. They never really meant it. I'm sure we'll get some sort of semantics based drivel from Drew over the coming weeks, about what "backbone" actually means, but a line has been drawn in the sand with this new Apollo release. UA is not going to be advancing or developing DSP any further in any significant way. It sucks, but it is what it is. |
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Post by skav on Oct 11, 2024 12:42:49 GMT -6
I cannot understand why they aren't upgrading the DSP chips? In my eyes, the chips is a big argument for using UAD interfaces & satellites. Not only for tracking, but for mixing by lessening the strain of a computer. Sure, computers can handle alot more now than when UA first launched their DSP chips, but at the same time developers are releasing tools that need more processing power, in line with the tech progression. Maybe Drew can chime in here? Drew @ UA |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 11, 2024 12:53:36 GMT -6
skav, if memory serves, I think you could just barely run 8 unison 73 pre on the original apollo quad. When you think about: think how dated the ua sharc design actually is. It still works so technically nor EOL, but if it’s new wiz bang Apollo can’t even run ua pedal plug software, it’s kinda EIUL: u for useful. Also, what a hugely missed opportunity, COVID made the whole market accept supply slow downs, what a perfect time , to redesign ua dsp, switch to arm, redesign apollo and cards so peeps would be buying into a viable arguably future proofed system, instead we have the everything old is new again apollo with no truly significant core upgrade.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2024 14:03:12 GMT -6
UA is doing a Clinic this weekend, wish I could sit through it because I would love to see how much DSP SW uses on a couple of different speakers as I anylized the results on my phone.
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2024 14:05:55 GMT -6
UA is doing a Clinic this weekend, wish I could sit through it because I would love to see how much DSP SW uses on a couple of different speakers as I anylized the results on my phone. When I saw the word "clinic" at first, I thought you were making a joke about UA putting on a clinic on how to piss off as many customers as possible at once. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2024 14:10:45 GMT -6
UA is doing a Clinic this weekend, wish I could sit through it because I would love to see how much DSP SW uses on a couple of different speakers as I anylized the results on my phone. When I saw the word "clinic" at first, I thought you were making a joke about UA putting on a clinic on how to piss off as many customers as possible at once. That’s been on going for years 😁 I honestly wish I could go, but I don’t think I could handle more than 15min in a folding chair, plus I would need to be at full strength because knowing me can you imagine how the UA rep would deal with me during Q and A🤪 |
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Post by Quint on Oct 11, 2024 14:18:45 GMT -6
When I saw the word "clinic" at first, I thought you were making a joke about UA putting on a clinic on how to piss off as many customers as possible at once. That’s been on going for years 😁 I honestly wish I could go, but I don’t think I could handle more than 15min in a folding chair, plus I would need to be at full strength because knowing me can you imagine how the UA rep would deal with me during Q and A🤪 I would go just to watch that interaction between you and the UA rep. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 11, 2024 14:32:54 GMT -6
Add Beers and hot buttered popcorn: the perfect clinic !  |
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Post by shakermaker on Oct 12, 2024 9:55:48 GMT -6
I've been nervous for this release for a while. I run two x16s, x6 and Twin x (controller) and a dangerous AD+ in the AES of the x16 (over dubs and printing/capi sumbus 32)
the reason I was nervous I was gonna wanna upgrade or it would tank the used value of the X16s etc. Well, neither of those seem to be the case. lol. So I'm kinda stoked on this release haha. Thanks UA. It would have taken a pretty big update for me to consider the hassle of upgrading but I'm def not now.
I get the feeling veggieryan isn't an apollo fan? haha my system works great, rock solid, I run alot of outboard, never use the unison pre's unless I need some extra on a huge live session (I only have 4 unison in total). My outboard pre amps sound great through the apollo and I use the dangerous AD+ for over dubs anyways. Get a Rod Rain Audio headphone amp for $150, easy game lol
its rock solid, and really enjoying discovering luna, getting rid of the console app, arm tracking is rad and setting balance as people are tracking.
I think UAD has def lost the plot a bit, like charging me $9.99 to upgrade to the native SSL lol. But hey, I've been hoping for native SSL since spark was launched, so happy its out.
kinda a nothing burger here. lol
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 12, 2024 10:38:24 GMT -6
I've been nervous for this release for a while. I run two x16s, x6 and Twin x (controller) and a dangerous AD+ in the AES of the x16 (over dubs and printing/capi sumbus 32) the reason I was nervous I was gonna wanna upgrade or it would tank the used value of the X16s etc. Well, neither of those seem to be the case. lol. So I'm kinda stoked on this release haha. Thanks UA. It would have taken a pretty big update for me to consider the hassle of upgrading but I'm def not now. I get the feeling veggieryan isn't an apollo fan? haha my system works great, rock solid, I run alot of outboard, never use the unison pre's unless I need some extra on a huge live session (I only have 4 unison in total). My outboard pre amps sound great through the apollo and I use the dangerous AD+ for over dubs anyways. Get a Rod Rain Audio headphone amp for $150, easy game lol its rock solid, and really enjoying discovering luna, getting rid of the console amp, arm tracking is rad and setting balance as people are tracking. I think UAD has def lost the plot a bit, like charging me $9.99 to upgrade to the native SSL lol. But hey, I've been hoping for native SSL since spark was launched, so happy its out. kinda a nothing burger here. lol I was hoping for a value drop - perhaps enough people will start dumping their old gen's for the new. I still like my Apollo despite some of UA issues. It's a great mobile rig for me. I would like to be able to pick up another x8p for less so I could have 16 channels going. I think the dsp is aggregated across them if I'm not mistaken. This is a plus because it would give me more for the more important channels. Anyway, the pres are meh but with the 88rs unison on it or something like that they are serviceable. When I win the lottery I can get 16 channels of Hardy and Lynx and make that a mobile rig. Until then... |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2024 10:40:37 GMT -6
It’s the user experience that matters most: glad this is all working out, mostly, well for you!
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2024 10:42:05 GMT -6
@misterchase aggregated for mixing not for tracking, but you can gang 2 sharcs to one channel
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 12, 2024 11:35:34 GMT -6
All of the UA hate on the board kindve bums me out. Yeah - I’ve got issues with some of the stuff they do, but good lord they’ve been an innovator and prominent in helping me make money for 20 years. I’ve had an Apollo for a large amount of that time with zero issues and constant upgrades. All things change…but the workflow with the Apollo is pretty fantastic.
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Post by Quint on Oct 12, 2024 12:05:57 GMT -6
All of the UA hate on the board kindve bums me out. Yeah - I’ve got issues with some of the stuff they do, but good lord they’ve been an innovator and prominent in helping me make money for 20 years. I’ve had an Apollo for a large amount of that time with zero issues and constant upgrades. All things change…but the workflow with the Apollo is pretty fantastic. I agree with all of this. It bums me out too. I quite like the Apollo/Luna workflow. It's sad to see what has happened with UA. But things have changed. It's not the same company anymore, so I don't any longer particularly feel any loyalty towards a company who clearly no longer has any loyalty towards me. It's a two way street. I gave them the benefit of the doubt for a long time. Longer than I should have. That's the long and short of it for me. One of the big differences between new wave (new customers in the last few years) customers and long time customers is that new wave customers never knew it any other way, whereas people that were customers, back when UA was a smaller, less corporate, dare I say "familial" company, are put off by what is happening now. Long time customer: What is happening? Why is UA treating customers this way, who spent a lot of of money over the years? What happened to the mutual respect? New wave customer: Shut the hell up. I just got a new plugin for $20! And we all know which kind of customer the new version of UA cares about and is pursuing now... Remember the annual christmas card email we used to get back in the day, where it was like 15 or 20 UA employees all standing together in the parking lot for a pic? I miss those. |
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Post by bossanova on Oct 12, 2024 12:12:55 GMT -6
All of the UA hate on the board kindve bums me out. Yeah - I’ve got issues with some of the stuff they do, but good lord they’ve been an innovator and prominent in helping me make money for 20 years. I’ve had an Apollo for a large amount of that time with zero issues and constant upgrades. All things change…but the workflow with the Apollo is pretty fantastic. I will be the first to admit that I bitch about parts of their current product experience, including at length here, but I also still use their software because some of it is really good. I get the impression that a lot of people here are mourning the company that UAD used to be as much as anything else, and some of that is coming out as anger. It seems really hard for big legacy audio companies not to find themselves in the venture capital death spiral where the innovation they were known for has essentially ceased, and now they’re pushing interfaces and re-packaged code in non-stop ads targeted at aspiring producers and bedroom musicians (and I like bedroom musicians, I technically am one these days) on Instagram. It’s where capitalism and technology have taken us. UA is just along for the ride. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 12, 2024 12:21:39 GMT -6
All of the UA hate on the board kindve bums me out. Yeah - I’ve got issues with some of the stuff they do, but good lord they’ve been an innovator and prominent in helping me make money for 20 years. I’ve had an Apollo for a large amount of that time with zero issues and constant upgrades. All things change…but the workflow with the Apollo is pretty fantastic. I will be the first to admit that I bitch about parts of their current product experience, including at length here, but I also still use their software because some of it is really good. I get the impression that a lot of people here are mourning the company that UAD used to be as much as anything else, and some of that is coming out as anger. It seems really hard for big legacy audio companies not to find themselves in the venture capital death spiral where the innovation they were known for has essentially ceased, and now they’re pushing interfaces and re-packaged code in non-stop ads targeted at aspiring producers and bedroom musicians (and I like bedroom musicians, I technically am one these days) on Instagram. It’s where capitalism and technology have taken us. UA is just along for the ride. Just the natural cycle of supply and demand. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 12, 2024 12:26:14 GMT -6
All of the UA hate on the board kindve bums me out. Yeah - I’ve got issues with some of the stuff they do, but good lord they’ve been an innovator and prominent in helping me make money for 20 years. I’ve had an Apollo for a large amount of that time with zero issues and constant upgrades. All things change…but the workflow with the Apollo is pretty fantastic. I hear ya. I feel kind of bad now. But yea, I use their stuff on every mix. Make no mistake, I love some of their plugins. Many of them. They've done really cool stuff that has helped me make music. They are not bad on the whole or anything like that. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 12, 2024 12:28:39 GMT -6
And I’m not shilling for them…I get nothing from them. Never gotten anything from them and they wouldn’t advertise here…so I’ve got a lot of reason to tell them to pound sand.
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Post by Quint on Oct 12, 2024 12:36:55 GMT -6
And I’m not shilling for them…I get nothing from them. Never gotten anything from them and they wouldn’t advertise here…so I’ve got a lot of reason to tell them to pound sand. I actually remember that conversation between you and Drew. He came off a little high and mighty when you proposed the idea of UA advertising here on RGO. |
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Post by shakermaker on Oct 12, 2024 13:02:08 GMT -6
The funniest thing about the "switch" we've seen with UAD is the seemingly manic price swings. One day its a $299 plugin than whallllop its $49, than back up to $200. The swings are wild. I bought all my UAD plugins before this current "era" so I'm good, and did well waiting for bundles, deals (still over paid for what you can get for now).
I understand the business is way more competitive so legacy pricing isn't an option. It's just funny how swingingy the prices are. Do they have a new MBA business grad working there as a cosultant? lmao maybe introduce some at work drug testing? cocaine is a helluva drug? hahaha jokes jokes
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2024 13:06:33 GMT -6
With respect, the comments are not hateful, but about disappointment with UA’s corporate intransigence and the very poor way it has treated some customers by undermining its own value proposition , ie, why we spent so much money in the first place.
As I said , from the beginning 3 year’s or so ago, there was a very easy, simple solution for UA to level the plug in cost playing field in terms of sweetheart low costs to essentially brand new clients vs established clients and it chose not to do that.
Being patronized publicly by UA staff , when you point out those and other inconsistencies, just rubs salt in that wound.
The truth is, we all acknowledge UA’s large contribution, but I think people are also disappointed that it doesn’t aspire to better customer service and individual clients have their specific legitimate concerns: UA brought it on itself.
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