|
|
Post by yotonic on Sept 21, 2024 18:01:10 GMT -6
Nobody wants to hear anyone sing who is trying to sound like someone famous. It's the kiss of death. People want to be moved by the peculiar authenticity of a stranger's voice. It's the natural timber and resonance of a person's real voice that is so interesting and sometimes transcendent. Pitch, breathing, phrasing will all be forgiven if someone has a wonderfully interesting voice. Songs are just a vehicle to reveal that voice. It's always interesting to hear a well known singer's speaking voice, I often realize it is a God given gift which makes it all so extraordinary.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 21, 2024 18:59:08 GMT -6
Still using too much Breath… But heading in a better general direction. On ‘lil Elly Studio here, on this RAW one take Speech example. NO lip syncing here.  LOL! Chris |
|
|
|
Post by poppaflavor on Sept 21, 2024 19:20:41 GMT -6
My guess is that he’s “saving time” for posting vocals. But obviously… It doesn’t excuse that. Much better if he re-Keyed any of these songs. And re-recorded them with his present voice. Even Domingo switched back from Tenor to his original (when he was starting out… High Baritone. I’m in love with the Classical Bel Canto Methods! At least I know enough that at maximum, am a Middleweight Baritone. (With years of further training with a Master ) NEVER could be a Dramatic Baritone in something like Verdi. Let alone Wagner. LOL! Anyway… My sense is there HAS to be some excess Throat tension, going on with Tamplin’s technique.• Yes it sounds “kewl” and Rawk. But Robert Plant screwed up his voice in the 70’s that way. (But the Parties were fun! ) Chris •Oh wiser Singing Brothers… Can anyone sing like Tamplin’s heavy metal voice (his way).., And NOT have any issues? Great take. Completely agree. There comes a time with any physical skill that a teacher must learn to teach through knowledge transfer not involving direct demonstration. It's true for any sport or art. I've been checking out different vocal coaches (prompted by this thread)- I'm utterly untrained but love singing more than anything. I actually kind of dug Ken's ebullient style and managed to survive a couple of parrot tongue video examples. He certainly has many techniques I can learn from. Not sure about the damage thing with his technique. That's kind of concerning. But that charlatan lip syncing thing is beneath him, frankly, based on his accomplished career and precedent. There must be a way even in today's hyper pop media world where an accomplished artist can stream and teach in a way that doesn't require them to fake it and pirate their own coattails. Maybe there isn't. Which is why he's relegated to miming himself like he's still in his thirties. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 22, 2024 0:13:10 GMT -6
One take brief vocal on my Elly Studio. Same vocal 3X 1)Totally RAW one take. 2)Then moderate MJUCjr. Compression 3)Lastly 2% Plate Reverb added to the MJUCjr. Compression Same exact vocal. Rather than 3 different takes. Chris P.S. Definitely a Lyric Baritone!  |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Sept 22, 2024 1:59:54 GMT -6
Nobody wants to hear anyone sing who is trying to sound like someone famous. It's the kiss of death. People want to be moved by the peculiar authenticity of a stranger's voice. It's the natural timber and resonance of a person's real voice that is so interesting and sometimes transcendent. Pitch, breathing, phrasing will all be forgiven if someone has a wonderfully interesting voice. Songs are just a vehicle to reveal that voice. It's always interesting to hear a well known singer's speaking voice, I often realize it is a God given gift which makes it all so extraordinary. Becoming a great vocalist is no different to becoming a great drummer or guitarist. You take on influences from many different players, try their licks and riffs on like trying clothes on. Eventually through experimentation and discovery all that melts and mixes in the pot and becomes the unique recipe that is you. For me and my music great pitch and phrasing is imperative given the arrangements I use - flat or sharp pitch would never be forgiven and it would sound dreadful! For another singer being more conversational and loose in a different genre can definitely work and will appeal to a different audience. Here’s the big secret …. (That everybody knows) “I only sing the songs I write so I write songs I can sing!” I actually like singing a few covers in our set. I sing Stings “Seven Days” love that song. “Boys of Summer” (love Henley too) and “Penny Lane” & “Blackbird” too. It’s kinda fun to sound like those singers when I sing them (though of course it’s my interpretation) - it’s all great practice and builds technique. On my songs …. I sound exactly like me |
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Sept 22, 2024 8:33:46 GMT -6
When I first started working with my instructor, “Shower the People” by James Taylor was the first song I wanted to use for our practices. She cues it up, and we start. I get to the chorus and she cuts it off. She says, “if you are wanting to play in a James Taylor tribute band, I can teach you to sound like him. But, if you are expecting people to come and hear you sing your songs and your versions of other people’s songs, I better teach you to sound like you”. So she does have me try to imitate some things other singers do as a way of unlocking the things she wants me to be able to do but only as an exercise to get me to where she believes I can be. Makes sense to me. So like thehightenor is saying, incorporating other singing styles into my singing is helping me improve even if I am not trying to be exactly like them. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 22, 2024 8:51:11 GMT -6
No Buble’ without Darin. LOL! |
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Sept 24, 2024 9:16:04 GMT -6
If I hadn't given up on the idea of being a singer, this thread would be really helpful. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Sept 24, 2024 9:48:46 GMT -6
If I hadn't given up on the idea of being a singer, this thread would be really helpful. Why did you give up on the idea? Did you want to be a singer? If you sing - you're a singer |
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Sept 24, 2024 15:04:24 GMT -6
If I hadn't given up on the idea of being a singer, this thread would be really helpful. Why did you give up on the idea? Did you want to be a singer? If you sing - you're a singer It's a combo of a few things. The first is time. Which also relates to the second, I'd rather get better at other instruments like piano and organ, even guitar and bass, all of which I end up doing on client projects on the reg. I also don't think my voice is any good, but I know that could be changed, but that gets up back to the time thing... (I did sing BVs in a band I played bass with) |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 24, 2024 17:16:38 GMT -6
You have a very good speaking voice Tony. Means probably a fine singing voice too! Chris |
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Sept 24, 2024 17:57:21 GMT -6
If you sing - you're a singer Of course, this is true. Most everyone can sing, and the "tone-deafness" argument is a misnomer at best. The ability to distinguish between frequencies ranges from important to critical in every spoken language. But from here there are subtle and not-so-subtle distinctions to be made. The ability to match pitch, while common, is not universal. Just listen to a chorus of third or fourth graders and consider that they are at an age where most of them are not embarrassed or concerned about judgementalism** . A small but noticable percentage are nowhere near pitch, much less the note. The abilty to 'hear' the sound you are making, take that feedback and apply it to the instrument (your voice), is clearly not universal. But yet, we say they are singing. Without naming names, I can think of a number of famous "singers" who are rarely near close to pitch when they sing. Yes, we could have an arguement regarding intention, but I maintain that a number of them couldn't sing in tune if they wanted to. The ability to determine whether or not something is "in tune" is variable. Putting aside the differences between the scales of different cultures and genres, etc, one can develop an ear to get better at it, but only a very small percentage of people can hear a 3 or 4 cent deviation in pitch, and the ability to match a pitch within 3 or 4 cents is akin to a professional golfer striking the the ball in the center of the club most every time. I hit a shit ton of golf balls in practice and I'm a high 90's golfer at best. Practice does not make perfect, it just makes you better. Finally we get to the actual instrument, and this is perhaps most relevent to our subject. We are not all outfitted with Bosendorfer, Stradavarious, Selmer, Altus, etc. quality instruments, and upgrading is not an option ..at least not yet. Sure, there are singers who have unique voices that have been able to get around their ability to not sing wonderfully in tune, but in the end, the natural tone of our voices is a both a boon and a limitation for every one of us. All of these points individually may seem tangentially relevent to our subject, but in sum they speak to the continuum of ability and value. FWIW, I still love to golf, but I'm not going to win any tournaments. **I have experience here. I was a music teacher and choir director in a K-8 school. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 24, 2024 20:38:00 GMT -6
Like Pat Boon?
|
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Sept 24, 2024 22:01:05 GMT -6
You have a very good speaking voice Tony. Means probably a fine singing voice too! Chris That's a very kind thing to say. Thank you, my friend. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 25, 2024 1:00:11 GMT -6
Sure thing! (and I still stand by those comments ) Chris |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Sept 25, 2024 1:44:15 GMT -6
If you sing - you're a singer Of course, this is true. Most everyone can sing, and the "tone-deafness" argument is a misnomer at best. The ability to distinguish between frequencies ranges from important to critical in every spoken language. But from here there are subtle and not-so-subtle distinctions to be made. The ability to match pitch, while common, is not universal. Just listen to a chorus of third or fourth graders and consider that they are at an age where most of them are not embarrassed or concerned about judgementalism** . A small but noticable percentage are nowhere near pitch, much less the note. The abilty to 'hear' the sound you are making, take that feedback and apply it to the instrument (your voice), is clearly not universal. But yet, we say they are singing. Without naming names, I can think of a number of famous "singers" who are rarely near close to pitch when they sing. Yes, we could have an arguement regarding intention, but I maintain that a number of them couldn't sing in tune if they wanted to. The ability to determine whether or not something is "in tune" is variable. Putting aside the differences between the scales of different cultures and genres, etc, one can develop an ear to get better at it, but only a very small percentage of people can hear a 3 or 4 cent deviation in pitch, and the ability to match a pitch within 3 or 4 cents is akin to a professional golfer striking the the ball in the center of the club most every time. I hit a shit ton of golf balls in practice and I'm a high 90's golfer at best. Practice does not make perfect, it just makes you better. Finally we get to the actual instrument, and this is perhaps most relevent to our subject. We are not all outfitted with Bosendorfer, Stradavarious, Selmer, Altus, etc. quality instruments, and upgrading is not an option ..at least not yet. Sure, there are singers who have unique voices that have been able to get around their ability to not sing wonderfully in tune, but in the end, the natural tone of our voices is a both a boon and a limitation for every one of us. All of these points individually may seem tangentially relevent to our subject, but in sum they speak to the continuum of ability and value. FWIW, I still love to golf, but I'm not going to win any tournaments. **I have experience here. I was a music teacher and choir director in a K-8 school. You kinda missed the point. In popular music everything and anything goes. If you have something to say - say it. You’ve just got to pick the right stage to stand on. Yes, if you have a gravely, low baritone pitchy voice you’re not going to be writing melodic rock like Genesis, Queen, Beatles etc. But you might vocalise in a folk idiom and play amazing guitar and write incredible lyrics and the grain and personality of your voice is perfect for that stage. And once people start and start ticking off the 10,000 hours it’s amazing how they find their own voice. Think about Mark Knopfler of the Dire Straits the man has close on a zero traditional singing voice - he basically speaks the words and then his guitar is his voice. Sold millions and millions of albums that way. As a vocal coach myself (last 20 years) I’d never discourage anyone from getting behind a mic …. they might be the next Mark Knopfler! |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 25, 2024 4:23:11 GMT -6
I think the thing to remember is not everyone is going to try to sing like Mario Lanza, Freddie Mercury, Aretha Franklin, Celine Dion, etc. What’s important is to get to know your own voice and what it can do, and to know that with some proper training and dedication you can get better. We have to strive to be the best we can be, and to know what that is and what that means for us as singers.
IMHO the best thing to do is to get an understanding of the sensation of the open throat, the sensation of the forward placement, find your mixed voice if you don’t have it already, and learn proper breath support. Understanding those two sensations and how they affect the sound give you a huge healthy sonic palette to explore. The mixed voice will help bridge the gap between your chest voice and head voice allowing for an easier transition. Breath support gives you the power to maintain it all. Then, depending on the style you sing, you may want to look at how to add distortion and compression to your sound in a healthy manner. Now if you already have a lot of distortion and compression in your sound, the other stuff will still just compliment the sound and give you other sonic options to pull from.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 25, 2024 11:08:11 GMT -6
I have on good authority that before Mark Knopfler found his unique voice... He was in Dire Straits. BTW wandered into a local Laguna shop, carrying the “new”/true Speaking Voice. So they want to talk about doing a local Radio Show. With me “telling Tales” if it gets going. Chris P.S. Re-discovered Lanza. Incredible! Thanks Vincent for reminding us of him. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 25, 2024 15:56:31 GMT -6
@ Vincent… De Luca is “My Lanza” for Lyric Baritone. Of course I wish I were Ruffo or Apollo Granforte too. LOL! Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 25, 2024 16:49:10 GMT -6
@ Vincent… De Luca is “My Lanza” for Lyric Baritone. Of course I wish I were Ruffo or Apollo Granforte too. LOL! Chris Not a bad choice. He’s like a baritone Gigli. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 26, 2024 11:54:14 GMT -6
Postscript…
Lots of Singing last night at our local Chess Club(!)
As time went on, my Voice tended more and more towards Low Tenor. Somewhat less Chest Voice/more Head Voice toned.*
Hmm….
“Keith” our resident Master Chess Puzzle composer…
Would be a fine Dramatic Baritone or Bass Baritone.
Really big guy. Huge Voice.
I’m trying to get him to sing some Johnny Cash or Tennessee Ernie Ford type Leads. (Where I can help with 2nd Tenor BGV’s)
Chris
* I have mild to moderate Pollen Allergies.
So it takes even longer to “clear the chest (congestion)”,
than a typical person.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 26, 2024 11:57:52 GMT -6
And one more thing! Discovered yesterday that Pavarotti as a Choir Boy in 1950… Sang Ave Maria live with Lanza!! Very cool. Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 27, 2024 11:32:27 GMT -6
And one more thing! Discovered yesterday that Pavarotti as a Choir Boy in 1950… Sang Ave Maria live with Lanza!! Very cool. Chris This is a really lovely story, but it's not true. People are attributing this story to Lanza's performance of Ave Maria in "The Great Caruso." I'm not sure who the boy is in the movie, but the voice is dubbed by a female singer. Again, I'm not sure the name of the singer. Lanza didn't make his way out to Italy until the mid 1950s. All of his early recorded work prior to Hollywood was done in NY, and his later work in LA. He left LA for Italy after the student prince fiasco. There are a lot of Lanza stories that are fun and popular, but that unfortunately were probably not true. There is a story about Lanza meeting Elvis, but the Colonel said it never happened. Although, we know Elvis was a huge fan of Mario's and had an extensive Lanza collection. Lanza was probably the influence for his "It's Now or Never" record. There are also stories about a love affair between him and Judy Garland, but there isn't any evidence of that either. A lot of the Mafia stuff, and a lot of the stories to do with his death, etc. Over the years as I've been asked to pay tribute to him I've made friends with some of his family or close family friends. So, I have a good idea which of the stories are legit, and which are not. I even have some stories that no one has ever even spoken about. lol. There are also some fun stories that are true. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 27, 2024 12:07:29 GMT -6
Yep. Just realized Pavarotti would be around 15 years old then too. But he did help lead the FBI to discover where Jimmy Hoffa was buried. At a giant outdoor concert in New Jersey. It was on the Bridge.* EDIT : Ruffo Autobiography book received today. Chris *And they had… Concrete evidence. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 29, 2024 20:09:34 GMT -6
Adding 15-20 Minutes Italian Vowel and/or general Italian study each day.
|
|
LOL!
