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Post by seawell on Jul 29, 2024 21:54:36 GMT -6
I actually couldn't really tell much difference in Seawell's video. Or one didn't really stand out or anything. No offense to Seawell who does an excellent job, but to really tell the subtle difference between buss comps you really need to have it in front of twist the knobs and hear the very small differences. No offense taken, I agree with you. The only reason I do these shootouts is to hopefully help someone else hone in on something they like that they may want to pursue further and get in their own studio. I recommend downloading the .wav files in the dropbox link and doing some blind a/b testing to take out any bias. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 8:36:28 GMT -6
No offense to Seawell who does an excellent job, but to really tell the subtle difference between buss comps you really need to have it in front of twist the knobs and hear the very small differences. No offense taken, I agree with you. The only reason I do these shootouts is to hopefully help someone else hone in on something they like that they may want to pursue further and get in their own studio. I recommend downloading the .wav files in the dropbox link and doing some blind a/b testing to take out any bias. It’s not your procedure - it’s just that it’s hard to tell because the differences are so subtle. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2024 8:44:01 GMT -6
PA Townhouse works, as does the SSL one. Obviously, don't pay full price for well, any plugin these days. I'm back to using my Stam VCA, but not because these plugins were letting me down in any way. As I wait for my 33609 (ish)...I thought about trying another VCA HW one if I could find cheap...but like sean said - I rarely pull more than 1-2 db on mixbus. I’ve got The Glue, UAD SSL and a couple more but they all pale next to my Roll Music RMS 755 - the plug-ins sound 2 dimensional in comparison. Stereo compression is one area plug-ins are weak IME. The Rolls comes up occasionally at a very good s/h price - I can highly recommend it. Mine sits in front of my thermionic pieces on the stereo bus and sound every bit as classy. The Smart CL1A is very nice to and has the C1 mode built in. Though I prefer 19” rack for stereo compression. |
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Post by svart on Jul 30, 2024 8:57:45 GMT -6
No offense taken, I agree with you. The only reason I do these shootouts is to hopefully help someone else hone in on something they like that they may want to pursue further and get in their own studio. I recommend downloading the .wav files in the dropbox link and doing some blind a/b testing to take out any bias. It’s not your procedure - it’s just that it’s hard to tell because the differences are so subtle. Yes. You found the holy grail of knowledge. The differences between all these are so subtle that it's really of no use even discussing them. I use the SSL Native Bus compressor from SSL. It was on sale for something ridiculously cheap like 20$ and I figure that if SSL is doing a plug of their hardware, it's probably the closest to the real thing you can get. But honestly I use it because I like the HPF it has. Keeps it from pumping too much. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 9:11:40 GMT -6
It’s not your procedure - it’s just that it’s hard to tell because the differences are so subtle. Yes. You found the holy grail of knowledge. The differences between all these are so subtle that it's really of no use even discussing them. I use the SSL Native Bus compressor from SSL. It was on sale for something ridiculously cheap like 20$ and I figure that if SSL is doing a plug of their hardware, it's probably the closest to the real thing you can get. But honestly I use it because I like the HPF it has. Keeps it from pumping too much. Well, certainly not everything is like that…but I kinda lost interest after they all sounded so similar. I’m just always looking for something that will make me better. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 9:15:42 GMT -6
When we talk about HW having that big bottom end and punch - that’s what we all like. So it’s really the transformers that we love…
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 30, 2024 9:53:42 GMT -6
When we talk about HW having that big bottom end and punch - that’s what we all like. So it’s really the transformers that we love… and I have plenty of those on the 2 bus in HW form. (LTL Royal Blue, RND 542 Silk etc)Also, still love Kazrog True Iron as well, though. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 30, 2024 9:54:09 GMT -6
Also need to give a shout out to the Kush Tweezers. VCA that are ultimately tweakable! I need to try them on 2 bus
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 9:57:03 GMT -6
I haven't heard any plugin transformer emulation that does anything but add hair.
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Post by ragan on Jul 30, 2024 10:06:10 GMT -6
I like The Glue best for ITB. I use the Audioscape. But when I got it, it wasn’t an immediate slam dunk over The Glue. I had a few level matched comparisons going and I would blind test myself. Kept the results in a little spreadsheet. The HW, over time, won a strong majority of my blind comparisons, so I kept it and it lives on my mixbus.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 30, 2024 10:07:40 GMT -6
I like The Glue best for ITB. I use the Audioscape. But when I got it, it wasn’t an immediate slam dunk over The Glue. I had a few level matched comparisons going and I would blind test myself. Kept the results in a little spreadsheet. The HW, over time, won a strong majority of my blind comparisons, so I kept it and it lives on my mixbus. It's just different somehow. Dunno exactly how to describe it but if theres one place I want the best stuff it's the whole mixbus. |
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Post by ragan on Jul 30, 2024 10:23:37 GMT -6
I’m also fine with it just being a workflow/experience preference. I just enjoy myself more when using hardware, and that’s super important to me. But, I always do some blind testing and good hardware had yet to lose a match, for me. Sometimes more dramatic than others (like with the SSL style comp, it’s not a blowout).
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 30, 2024 11:54:55 GMT -6
I’m also fine with it just being a workflow/experience preference. I just enjoy myself more when using hardware, and that’s super important to me. But, I always do some blind testing and good hardware had yet to lose a match, for me. Sometimes more dramatic than others (like with the SSL style comp, it’s not a blowout). Totally. My plan for a long time has been to get enough CAPI channels to mix say 20 or so tracks out of the box. I'm kind of thinking I might do some bussing though. Guitars, bgvs, keys, perc,.. Just several sub groups that can have stereo hardware busses applied. |
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Post by bossanova on Jul 30, 2024 12:14:13 GMT -6
The SSL one is cool but weirdly transparent. As Dan said, that makes sense because it’s not an emulation of the G Comp.
The PA Townsend can add some nice bite.
Kotelnikov is what I use if I just want glue and control while taking off 1-2 db. I think it gets used where I would have used the SSL Native one at one time.
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Post by ab101 on Jul 30, 2024 12:24:53 GMT -6
The SSL one is cool but weirdly transparent. As Dan said, that makes sense because it’s not an emulation of the G Comp. The PA Townsend can add some nice bite. Kotelnikov is what I use if I just want glue and control while taking off 1-2 db. I think it gets used where I would have used the SSL Native one at one time. I can get some of that SSL punch with the Kotelnikov. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 13:34:31 GMT -6
I like The Glue best for ITB. I use the Audioscape. But when I got it, it wasn’t an immediate slam dunk over The Glue. I had a few level matched comparisons going and I would blind test myself. Kept the results in a little spreadsheet. The HW, over time, won a strong majority of my blind comparisons, so I kept it and it lives on my mixbus. The Pulsar 1178 is pretty damn close to the AudioScape 78...but there's a weight and thickness - and like it is more effortless in doing what its supposed to. Again, I think we're loving the transformers on this stuff. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 13:35:59 GMT -6
I’m also fine with it just being a workflow/experience preference. I just enjoy myself more when using hardware, and that’s super important to me. But, I always do some blind testing and good hardware had yet to lose a match, for me. Sometimes more dramatic than others (like with the SSL style comp, it’s not a blowout). Yeah - I feel like a real boy producer when I twist real knobs. |
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Post by copperx on Jul 30, 2024 15:22:29 GMT -6
I’m just always looking for something that will make me better. Reading a book is cheaper than gear. jk jk!
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Post by Dan on Jul 30, 2024 16:55:41 GMT -6
They all sound awful next to the Smart. Glue cleans up at 16x oversampling but almost feels too pillowy and doesn’t really do the ssl snare and guitar things. Oxford Limiter does it better ime if you want that but using enhance or safe mode puts it halway to C2 Crush. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 18:33:56 GMT -6
They all sound awful next to the Smart. Glue cleans up at 16x oversampling but almost feels too pillowy and doesn’t really do the ssl snare and guitar things. Oxford Limiter does it better ime if you want that but using enhance or safe mode puts it halway to C2 Crush. Dan...come on. That's a ridiculous statement. There are miiiinute differences with how some have a little less lower mids and how some handle the snare differently...but to say there's enough difference to call one awful is just a huge stretch... |
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Post by copperx on Jul 30, 2024 20:34:05 GMT -6
A bit tangential, but one thing that bothers me about the clones is the needles jump like crazy, and the SSL and Smart are very solid. Does anyone know why that happens? is it just a different meter, or is it the RMS chip or something? The only clone that I've seen nail the movement is the Nekotronics.
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Post by sean on Jul 30, 2024 20:56:17 GMT -6
seawell’s video just confirms that if the Louder Than Liftoff Hitmaker Comp doesn’t do it for me the C1LA is my next purchase. The way the vocal and snare sits in track is pretty obvious to me. The SSL Native sounded like it put an expander on the snare…
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Post by Dan on Jul 30, 2024 21:09:18 GMT -6
They all sound awful next to the Smart. Glue cleans up at 16x oversampling but almost feels too pillowy and doesn’t really do the ssl snare and guitar things. Oxford Limiter does it better ime if you want that but using enhance or safe mode puts it halway to C2 Crush. Dan...come on. That's a ridiculous statement. There are miiiinute differences with how some have a little less lower mids and how some handle the snare differently...but to say there's enough difference to call one awful is just a huge stretch... seawell's test is the snare: little off on slow attack, fast release. it pretty much just shows off the envelope follower, the attack and release, of the compressor. the others sound somewhat broken (the glue, uad-2, bx townhouse) to totally broken (waves, ssl native). the ssl isn't really a distorted compressor and the harmonics from gain reduction will overpower a lot of any minor box tone it is. a lot of the boxtone is it compacting the mix a little on fast release or a ton on auto into the noise and distortion of what is fed into it or the ones without built in high pass filters or a high pass filter option robbing the mix of bass or compressing with auto not in the sweet spots for attack, taking off the treble. the need for drastic eq after it is no high pass in the sidechain and not hitting the sweetspots for the attack if using auto to get it to release faster on shorter transients like high frequency focused ones.
if you want something else besides the envelope follower, ssl bus auto behavior, or want more distortion, you might want to use a different compressor.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2024 23:52:40 GMT -6
seawell’s video just confirms that if the Louder Than Liftoff Hitmaker Comp doesn’t do it for me the C1LA is my next purchase. The way the vocal and snare sits in track is pretty obvious to me. The SSL Native sounded like it put an expander on the snare… Is that the module for the Silver Bullet? |
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Post by christophert on Jul 31, 2024 3:47:08 GMT -6
The Smart wipes the floor IMO. The plugs sound smeared and veiled in all frequencies, and lack punch and low mid detail. Another great seawell video. Saved me from possibly buying more average plug ins. |
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