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Post by drbill on Jul 28, 2024 17:13:44 GMT -6
imagine a paid tier of Spotify that is “premium and guaranteed AI-free”. They’d be fools not to market this. Well....consider them fools. I just released 65 albums of ambient lifestyle based musics on my record company where I tried to put "SONG XYZ - NON AI" as part of the title as an attempt to get out in front of this mess. Complete fail. The streamers would not take the songs. I had to re-release all with "NON AI" deleted. You give Spotify way to much credit......  DAMN!!!!!!!! I just had an epiphany. I should have labeled it "SONG XYZ (feat. Non AI)"Crap.... Oh well, what's done is done..... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 17:17:41 GMT -6
imagine a paid tier of Spotify that is “premium and guaranteed AI-free”. They’d be fools not to market this. Well....consider them fools. I just released 65 albums of ambient lifestyle based musics on my record company where I tried to put "SONG XYZ - NON AI" as part of the title as an attempt to get out in front of this mess. Complete fail. The streamers would not take the songs. I had to re-release all with "NON AI" deleted. You give Spotify way to much credit...... DAMN!!!!!!!! I just had an epiphany. I should have labeled it "SONG XYZ (feat. Non AI)"Crap.... Oh well, what's done is done..... But Daniel Ek is only worth $5 billion…so, we’re gonna need you to do this free. www.digitalmusicnews.com/2024/06/26/spotify-ceo-daniel-ek-is-richer-than-any-musician-in-history/ |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 17:18:44 GMT -6
I don't understand what you mean by the title. What are you receiving that's AI generated and what are they asking you to do with it? I was wondering that too..... |
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Post by drbill on Jul 28, 2024 17:22:05 GMT -6
Well....consider them fools. I just released 65 albums of ambient lifestyle based musics on my record company where I tried to put "SONG XYZ - NON AI" as part of the title as an attempt to get out in front of this mess. Complete fail. The streamers would not take the songs. I had to re-release all with "NON AI" deleted. You give Spotify way to much credit...... DAMN!!!!!!!! I just had an epiphany. I should have labeled it "SONG XYZ (feat. Non AI)"Crap.... Oh well, what's done is done..... But Daniel Ek is only worth $5 billion…so, we’re gonna need you to do this free. www.digitalmusicnews.com/2024/06/26/spotify-ceo-daniel-ek-is-richer-than-any-musician-in-history/I'm pretty sure I DID do it for free. Or more correctly, as a huge time and financial loss to yours truly. But I was 3/4 of the way there already, and figured I might as well just wrap things up. It's my gift to a world that seems more uptight, anxious and distressed than I can ever remember. 60+ albums of ambient meditation, ambient prayer, ambient chill, ambient sleep, ambient calming, ambient living, ambient relaxation, ambient drifting, etc., etc.. All music that can EASILY be replaced by AI. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 28, 2024 17:25:43 GMT -6
And my point is simply that most of my clients ALREADY don’t make much (or any) money from music. Interesting. You must be in a demo market then?? 85% + of my clients rely on music for 100% of their income. And they are slated for extinction. At least as far as music is concerned.... I’d say under 10% of my clients can rely on the *recordings* of their music to make a living. As noted, most of the money is in performing. Records are a promotion of that. even still, the vast majority of artists I work with have jobs besides JUST music. Even the ones touring, on labels, etc. 3-4 week runs twice a year in EU and US doesn’t pay enough to cover 3-5 adult salaries, in most cases. The younger bands are still occasionally happy to slog it out on the road and live off that, but more of my clients have aged out of that so it’s just not really a thing. And ”demos” REALLY aren’t a thing. In my world, they largely never have been I don’t think I’ve made a demo in fifteen years, and ironically, it was only ever with the super high-profile folks I’ve worked with (tbh, it’s very likely that the only demos I’ve ever been really paid to make were during my years with Aerosmith…I can’t recall a single other client coming in to do that kind of work). People can make demos at home; by the time they get to my studio to work, they’re paying too much to not make a master release. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 28, 2024 17:27:33 GMT -6
imagine a paid tier of Spotify that is “premium and guaranteed AI-free”. They’d be fools not to market this. Well....consider them fools. I just released 65 albums of ambient lifestyle based musics on my record company where I tried to put "SONG XYZ - NON AI" as part of the title as an attempt to get out in front of this mess. Complete fail. The streamers would not take the songs. I had to re-release all with "NON AI" deleted. You give Spotify way to much credit...... DAMN!!!!!!!! I just had an epiphany. I should have labeled it "SONG XYZ (feat. Non AI)"Crap.... Oh well, what's done is done..... I mean…they won’t do it until the market demands it. That’s why the rest of my post was so specific about the circumstances. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 28, 2024 17:35:08 GMT -6
I generally think the pessimistic view on this is more correct. It’s freaky what AI can do right now. I heard a couple of country songs that were, like, other than the vocal artifacts, pretty much on par with the bro country on the radio. Like, clever little puns, the exact correct references that pop country makes in every song, perfect wink-y rhymes…kind of jaw dropping. The more Pollyanna-ish take of “no, people crave authenticity and will rally to support the true art”…like, when has humanity ever, in any circumstance, displayed this quality? I am not holding my breath for people to suddenly, out of nowhere, develop the kind of spine it would take to resist easy, cheap, shit. Like, all of modernity is evidence against this being likely to happen. Bingo. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 28, 2024 17:39:27 GMT -6
Interesting. You must be in a demo market then?? 85% + of my clients rely on music for 100% of their income. And they are slated for extinction. At least as far as music is concerned.... I’d say under 10% of my clients can rely on the *recordings* of their music to make a living. As noted, most of the money is in performing. Records are a promotion of that. even still, the vast majority of artists I work with have jobs besides JUST music. Even the ones touring, on labels, etc. 3-4 week runs twice a year in EU and US doesn’t pay enough to cover 3-5 adult salaries, in most cases. The younger bands are still occasionally happy to slog it out on the road and live off that, but more of my clients have aged out of that so it’s just not really a thing. And ”demos” REALLY aren’t a thing. In my world, they largely never have been I don’t think I’ve made a demo in fifteen years, and ironically, it was only ever with the super high-profile folks I’ve worked with (tbh, it’s very likely that the only demos I’ve ever been really paid to make were during my years with Aerosmith…I can’t recall a single other client coming in to do that kind of work). People can make demos at home; by the time they get to my studio to work, they’re paying too much to not make a master release. Thanks for the explanation. Very sad.... And very different than my west-coast world..... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 17:40:41 GMT -6
Interesting. You must be in a demo market then?? 85% + of my clients rely on music for 100% of their income. And they are slated for extinction. At least as far as music is concerned.... I’d say under 10% of my clients can rely on the *recordings* of their music to make a living. As noted, most of the money is in performing. Records are a promotion of that. even still, the vast majority of artists I work with have jobs besides JUST music. Even the ones touring, on labels, etc. 3-4 week runs twice a year in EU and US doesn’t pay enough to cover 3-5 adult salaries, in most cases. The younger bands are still occasionally happy to slog it out on the road and live off that, but more of my clients have aged out of that so it’s just not really a thing. And ”demos” REALLY aren’t a thing. In my world, they largely never have been I don’t think I’ve made a demo in fifteen years, and ironically, it was only ever with the super high-profile folks I’ve worked with (tbh, it’s very likely that the only demos I’ve ever been really paid to make were during my years with Aerosmith…I can’t recall a single other client coming in to do that kind of work). People can make demos at home; by the time they get to my studio to work, they’re paying too much to not make a master release. I use that term - or used to - but try not to anymore. Kind’ve sounds pejorative…We would “demo” songs to pitch…but a lot of the times it could’ve (and probably should have) been released. Not really anything like that now…seems like it’s all made for at least streaming. And this is yet another food chain casualty. There used to be so many demos being made, a session guy could work for weeks without doing an artist project. So - opportunities for players has really dried up. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 17:43:38 GMT -6
I generally think the pessimistic view on this is more correct. It’s freaky what AI can do right now. I heard a couple of country songs that were, like, other than the vocal artifacts, pretty much on par with the bro country on the radio. Like, clever little puns, the exact correct references that pop country makes in every song, perfect wink-y rhymes…kind of jaw dropping. If the warbly vocal wasn’t an immediate giveaway, the phrase “Cute as cucumbers” was used in one of the songs I did last week…so, yeah. AI. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 28, 2024 18:18:46 GMT -6
I’d say under 10% of my clients can rely on the *recordings* of their music to make a living. As noted, most of the money is in performing. Records are a promotion of that. even still, the vast majority of artists I work with have jobs besides JUST music. Even the ones touring, on labels, etc. 3-4 week runs twice a year in EU and US doesn’t pay enough to cover 3-5 adult salaries, in most cases. The younger bands are still occasionally happy to slog it out on the road and live off that, but more of my clients have aged out of that so it’s just not really a thing. And ”demos” REALLY aren’t a thing. In my world, they largely never have been I don’t think I’ve made a demo in fifteen years, and ironically, it was only ever with the super high-profile folks I’ve worked with (tbh, it’s very likely that the only demos I’ve ever been really paid to make were during my years with Aerosmith…I can’t recall a single other client coming in to do that kind of work). People can make demos at home; by the time they get to my studio to work, they’re paying too much to not make a master release. I use that term - or used to - but try not to anymore. Kind’ve sounds pejorative…. sorry - didn't mean it to come off that way. (Pejorative) Meant more as "non-professional" or wait, not for release / profit or not meant to be distributed traditionally or....whatever. At any rate, yeah, used to know TONS of musicians who mostly worked on "demos" who were incredibly talented. Where are they now? I never see most of them anymore. One thing is for sure, talented as they were / are, they are not working full time in music anymore.... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 18:47:53 GMT -6
I use that term - or used to - but try not to anymore. Kind’ve sounds pejorative…. sorry - didn't mean it to come off that way. (Pejorative) Meant more as "non-professional" or wait, not for release / profit or not meant to be distributed traditionally or....whatever. At any rate, yeah, used to know TONS of musicians who mostly worked on "demos" who were incredibly talented. Where are they now? I never see most of them anymore. One thing is for sure, talented as they were / are, they are not working full time in music anymore.... Oh I didn’t think you were…I just have slipped and said it with a client or two in the past and that freaks them out lol. I never approached anything like a demo, though…just threw in everything you could for 40 minutes. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 28, 2024 19:15:50 GMT -6
I don't understand what you mean by the title. What are you receiving that's AI generated and what are they asking you to do with it? I do production for clients…they usually send me a worktape. Some decent, some so bad I have to help. I had 3 different people (who normally send pretty remedial guitar worktapes) send me completely AI versions to re-track. Actually - the one guy with two songs was new come to think of it. I don’t know if they literally didnt do anything but type in a prompt, or whether it was just the music… But like I said - this is kinda easier for me because the song is basically produced by AI. We didn’t completely cop the parts, but the vibe was pretty much the same. And I get the sense that it’s generated a little more work because now maybe I’m getting a few that could never do this before because they can’t play anything, sing anything or write music. Jesus. That was the most depressing sentence I’ve ever written. But the point of all this is that AI is affecting my business right now. Not in the future. Hey - if it stayed this benevolent - I’m golden. I mean - what could go wrong? I feel like I must be reading this wrong. They had AI do the lyrics too? Or they had a song and plugged it into an AI arrangement. Sorry, this makes no sense to me. Maybe it just doesn't make sense? |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 28, 2024 19:26:59 GMT -6
So how long before people start seriously pondering the question “Could we be living in a simulation?” and is that even remotely possible? Because considering where we are now in terms of tech and AI where could we be in say another 25, 50 or 100 years from now and could we even begin to contemplate what that would look like? If someone from a recording gear user group posted on a bulletin board back in 1999 “My last 4 songs from people were AI” What kind of response do you think they would have got? Likely… “What the fuck are you on about?!” “Are you off your meds??” So then… “Could we be living in a simulation?” 🤔  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 19:27:48 GMT -6
I do production for clients…they usually send me a worktape. Some decent, some so bad I have to help. I had 3 different people (who normally send pretty remedial guitar worktapes) send me completely AI versions to re-track. Actually - the one guy with two songs was new come to think of it. I don’t know if they literally didnt do anything but type in a prompt, or whether it was just the music… But like I said - this is kinda easier for me because the song is basically produced by AI. We didn’t completely cop the parts, but the vibe was pretty much the same. And I get the sense that it’s generated a little more work because now maybe I’m getting a few that could never do this before because they can’t play anything, sing anything or write music. Jesus. That was the most depressing sentence I’ve ever written. But the point of all this is that AI is affecting my business right now. Not in the future. Hey - if it stayed this benevolent - I’m golden. I mean - what could go wrong? I feel like I must be reading this wrong. They had AI do the lyrics too? Or they had a song and plugged it into an AI arrangement. Sorry, this makes no sense to me. Maybe it just doesn't make sense? I’m not sure why it’s confusing? Usually, someone will send me a song they’ve written - a rough worktape - so I can chart the song. Then I take it in the studio and track it. I suspect one of these guys that sent me an Ai-generated work tape let AI do everything. Lyrics and music. If you haven’t tried suno.com, you should experience it. Maybe that’s why it’s not making sense. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 28, 2024 19:43:59 GMT -6
I feel like I must be reading this wrong. They had AI do the lyrics too? Or they had a song and plugged it into an AI arrangement. Sorry, this makes no sense to me. Maybe it just doesn't make sense? I’m not sure why it’s confusing? Usually, someone will send me a song they’ve written - a rough worktape - so I can chart the song. Then I take it in the studio and track it. I suspect one of these guys that sent me an Ai-generated work tape let AI do everything. Lyrics and music. If you haven’t tried suno.com, you should experience it. Maybe that’s why it’s not making sense. It's not making sense cuz... what's the point? Have AI write a song and then send it to somebody else to produce it. Why? Are they trying to market this stuff? Or if it's a vanity project what is the desired outcome "I had a computer do a bunch of stuff and then paid a person to do the rest?" Or is it for a project that needs music or something? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 19:51:35 GMT -6
I’m not sure why it’s confusing? Usually, someone will send me a song they’ve written - a rough worktape - so I can chart the song. Then I take it in the studio and track it. I suspect one of these guys that sent me an Ai-generated work tape let AI do everything. Lyrics and music. If you haven’t tried suno.com, you should experience it. Maybe that’s why it’s not making sense. It's not making sense cuz... what's the point? Have AI write a song and then send it to somebody else to produce it. Why? Are they trying to market this stuff? Or if it's a vanity project what is the desired outcome "I had a computer do a bunch of stuff and then paid a person to do the rest?" Or is it for a project that needs music or something? Mostly to get someone to record the song. They know they can’t send AI because no one would listen. But I should add - I don’t really know because I don’t ask. |
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Post by bossanova on Jul 28, 2024 19:56:34 GMT -6
It's not making sense cuz... what's the point? Have AI write a song and then send it to somebody else to produce it. Why? Are they trying to market this stuff? Or if it's a vanity project what is the desired outcome "I had a computer do a bunch of stuff and then paid a person to do the rest?" Or is it for a project that needs music or something? Mostly to get someone to record the song. They know they can’t send AI because no one would listen. But I should add - I don’t really know because I don’t ask. Sort of like a Rod Temperton, where he wasn't a performer in any sense that I've heard but could write a fantastic song and then other people arranged it and performed it? Except in this case Rod Temperton is the AI and the song isn't fantastic? |
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Post by wiz on Jul 28, 2024 20:02:33 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 28, 2024 22:01:43 GMT -6
Mostly to get someone to record the song. They know they can’t send AI because no one would listen. But I should add - I don’t really know because I don’t ask. Sort of like a Rod Temperton, where he wasn't a performer in any sense that I've heard but could write a fantastic song and then other people arranged it and performed it? Except in this case Rod Temperton is the AI and the song isn't fantastic? Well…in the country world, for the songwriter the radio is still king. You get a No.1 you can make 6-7 figures depending on your deal. So, that had been the goal until artists suddenly decided to sit in the room become songwriters…Sometimes I don’t realize how backwards that is to the rest of the world. |
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Post by jmoose on Jul 28, 2024 22:34:13 GMT -6
But like I said - this is kinda easier for me because the song is basically produced by AI. We didn’t completely cop the parts, but the vibe was pretty much the same. And I get the sense that it’s generated a little more work because now maybe I’m getting a few that could never do this before because they can’t play anything, sing anything or write music. Jesus. That was the most depressing sentence I’ve ever written. Yeah... I think we can agree that's about the most depressing thing I've ever read on any interknot space dedicated to the craft of audio production. Geez. So why take that work? People who can't play... can't sing... can't write... Why deal with any of that unless you enjoy the self inflicted wounds..? I wouldn't endure that. And honestly just can't relate to or understand much of what's been said here. I do get that its affecting people. Have a friend who's in what we'd probably call the "custom jingle" business, and seeing as how those are bit of a luxury commodity these days he's feeling the squeeze. And we've talked about how to re-invent his career... Vanity projects though? Sure! Hell yeah! Bring 'em on! Some have been really great. Thing is, when I get something like that its almost never about programming & fake drums... I get people who are all-in and need the real deal. And if the needs are too big for my own shop then we'll book time in a killer room like my home away from home Big Blue North. We did this one in about 5 days... 4 songs in 5 days. Front to back. Tracked & mixed on the RND 5088. Blasted to 1/2" 30ips on the Mike Spitz ATR. Finish a song, zero the faders start the next one. Cowboy style! Then off to Brad Blackwood @ Euphonic for mastering. They even traveled from Florida to upstate NY! Look. Its very simple. I get the indie thing... oh we don't have any money... But rather then crawl into the hole and wallow around in muck I'm going to extend a ladder and offer a way out... that yes, we can do this and be very real, very honest about it. No excuses. No bullshit. Either that or I don't take the work. Really simple. www.bigbluenorth.com/studiowww.euphonicmasters.com/ |
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Post by ragan on Jul 28, 2024 22:37:57 GMT -6
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 29, 2024 2:57:43 GMT -6
So how long before people start seriously pondering the question “Could we be living in a simulation?” and is that even remotely possible? Because considering where we are now in terms of tech and AI where could we be in say another 25, 50 or 100 years from now and could we even begin to contemplate what that would look like? If someone from a recording gear user group posted on a bulletin board back in 1999 “My last 4 songs from people were AI” What kind of response do you think they would have got? Likely… “What the fuck are you on about?!” “Are you off your meds??” So then… “Could we be living in a simulation?” 🤔 View AttachmentMy friend, may I respectfully ask … How old are you? |
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Post by christophert on Jul 29, 2024 3:41:12 GMT -6
Sort of like a Rod Temperton, where he wasn't a performer in any sense that I've heard but could write a fantastic song and then other people arranged it and performed it? Except in this case Rod Temperton is the AI and the song isn't fantastic? Well…in the country world, for the songwriter the radio is still king. You get a No.1 you can make 6-7 figures depending on your deal. So, that had been the goal until artists suddenly decided to sit in the room become songwriters…Sometimes I don’t realize how backwards that is to the rest of the world. But what happens when the majority of radio songs are AI ? ( like in about 12 months )
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Post by rowmat on Jul 29, 2024 3:44:06 GMT -6
So how long before people start seriously pondering the question “Could we be living in a simulation?” and is that even remotely possible? Because considering where we are now in terms of tech and AI where could we be in say another 25, 50 or 100 years from now and could we even begin to contemplate what that would look like? If someone from a recording gear user group posted on a bulletin board back in 1999 “My last 4 songs from people were AI” What kind of response do you think they would have got? Likely… “What the fuck are you on about?!” “Are you off your meds??” So then… “Could we be living in a simulation?” 🤔 View AttachmentMy friend, may I respectfully ask … How old are you? C’mon! Don’t get all metaphysical with me! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis |
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