mrcel0
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by mrcel0 on Jun 26, 2024 16:37:28 GMT -6
Serrano 87 is high on my list after listening to it. Very high, I say I’d probably be happy with any of them over my XLS. Of course there’s no way to know or answer my question without actually doing some demos in person. I think I may be able to demo the V-13, hope VK can have some demo units of these soon so I can start narrowing.
Updated list:
Serrano 87
MT71S
V-13
UT FET47
TLM-107
Would you have any recommendations for a crooner / softer singing style from these? Think I read the UT 47 was good for that?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 26, 2024 16:48:08 GMT -6
Serrano 87 is high on my list after listening to it. Very high, I say I’d probably be happy with any of them over my XLS. Of course there’s no way to know or answer my question without actually doing some demos in person. I think I may be able to demo the V-13, hope VK can have some demo units of these soon so I can start narrowing. Updated list: Serrano 87 MT71S V-13 UT FET47 TLM-107 Would you have any recommendations for a crooner / softer singing style from these? Think I read the UT 47 was good for that? UT 47 has that 47 warm sound. Almost too warm when you're in croon mode. When I first got my Signal Art 48 I was shocked at how warm that style of mic is. Really took some getting used to (and don't be afraid HPF). Anyway, depending on what you think the "crooner" sound is. Yes, UT 47 could be good for that. But in my opinion, people forget what the crooners actually sounded like. If you really put out a record where the vocals sound like Bing Crosby people would think their speakers were broken. |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 26, 2024 16:59:09 GMT -6
I'll put some 'ol Crooning clips before bed tonight. BU67 (I realize it's over $1K) and Elly Studio. BTW FET 47's are slightly less bright than high quality 47 Tube versions. My nickname in Town is "Chris the Crooner". I worry sometimes about "Sonic Sominex". LOL! Chris P.S. I'm not 100% sure on the OG Soundelux U195 to newer UA 187 transition. So am hesitant to post U195 clips.  |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Jun 26, 2024 20:36:16 GMT -6
I'll put some 'ol Crooning clips before bed tonight. BU67 (I realize it's over $1K) and Elly Studio. BTW FET 47's are slightly less bright than high quality 47 Tube versions. My nickname in Town is "Chris the Crooner". I worry sometimes about "Sonic Sominex". LOL! Chris P.S. I'm not 100% sure on the OG Soundelux U195 to newer UA 187 transition. So am hesitant to post U195 clips. Yeah, I have been kind of scared that MBHOs relationship was more about Dave than the brand, worried that we might see a big change in capsules. The MBHO supplied capsules were exclusive to Bock. |
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Post by drumsound on Jun 26, 2024 22:18:14 GMT -6
Serrano 87 is high on my list after listening to it. Very high, I say I’d probably be happy with any of them over my XLS. Of course there’s no way to know or answer my question without actually doing some demos in person. I think I may be able to demo the V-13, hope VK can have some demo units of these soon so I can start narrowing. Updated list: Serrano 87 MT71S V-13 UT FET47 TLM-107 Would you have any recommendations for a crooner / softer singing style from these? Think I read the UT 47 was good for that? Some have described the V-13 as having a soft (but pleasing) top, so that might be quite good for crooning. |
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Post by mcirish on Jun 27, 2024 5:59:30 GMT -6
When I think crooners, it's always a U47 with a M7 capsule. I have a Wunder and that is always the mic for crooner types. I also have the V13. Matt from Mill Sounds can say more about it as he has more experience with it. To me, it's a fairly neutral sounding mix with a softer top. Completely usable but not on male vocals that need girth. I felt the low on on it was not as pronounced as a U47. It might be just the thing on some female vocals, which is why I bought it.
On the ultra inexpensive side, I think an Oktava 319, with a few mods, can get that sort of sound. Not as smooth as a good K47 capsule but very usable in a similar vein.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 27, 2024 9:13:27 GMT -6
I do have an "exceptional" 319 like yours. But... My Elly capsule is still somewhat clearer/fuller/smoother. This 319 is cool to bring out the natural/slight "Rasp" in my voice. (Part of my Voice Type BTW/"Barytone-Martin") For occasional use only.  Chris P.S. The "Producer" Elly does sound more open... Due to the larger Body. Studio Series tighter/more Compressed. |
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Post by skav on Jun 27, 2024 10:43:57 GMT -6
What about the SE T2 or T1?
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Post by chessparov on Jun 27, 2024 12:38:49 GMT -6
IMHO T2 among the top. I have a strong weakness for "Hand Made" though. My U195 is an excellent mic too. Despite the Chinesium capsule.* LOL! Chris *David Bock at the QC Helm then. Wasn't aware of the Single Pattern version of T2. |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 28, 2024 0:23:07 GMT -6
Here's a brief Elly Studio clip (originally a WAV file) "cut down" to 320bps MP3. So the "one take" audio clip can fit for posting. BTW IMHO the Studio Elly sounds relatively Compressed, to the more "Open" toned Producer Series/larger Body (and wider) Pattern Elly. And a brief "one take" BU67 example too. Chris |
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mrcel0
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by mrcel0 on Jun 28, 2024 12:46:41 GMT -6
Here's a brief Elly Studio clip (originally a WAV file) "cut down" to 320bps MP3. So the "one take" audio clip can fit for posting. BTW IMHO the Studio Elly sounds relatively Compressed, to the more "Open" toned Producer Series/larger Body (and wider) Pattern Elly. And a brief "one take" BU67 example too. Chris Wow. That 47 is beautiful and adds so much depth to the vocals, seems like i’m leaning more and more towards that as I could definitely use the beef on my vocals. |
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Post by drumsound on Jun 28, 2024 15:08:33 GMT -6
What about the SE T2 or T1? I have a pair of T2s and 4 X1d (also titanium capsule) they are lovely mics. |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 28, 2024 17:02:28 GMT -6
Here's a brief Elly Studio clip (originally a WAV file) "cut down" to 320bps MP3. So the "one take" audio clip can fit for posting. BTW IMHO the Studio Elly sounds relatively Compressed, to the more "Open" toned Producer Series/larger Body (and wider) Pattern Elly. And a brief "one take" BU67 example too. Chris Wow. That 47 is beautiful and adds so much depth to the vocals, seems like i’m leaning more and more towards that as I could definitely use the beef on my vocals. Thanks! Again keep in mind the larger "Producer" version sounds "bigger". Although the narrower Pattern "Studio" is more forgiving of a lesser Room. Tradeoffs... Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 29, 2024 21:50:36 GMT -6
I'll listen before bed. Keep in mind... Although you could do the "One Ring-ahem-Microphone To Bind Them" (all your Vocal Tones)... Most of us have multiple vocal mics. So this is probably just the beginning of your journey. Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 30, 2024 0:32:46 GMT -6
Hey remember... "You're among friends" here. If possible, post the RAW/Non-Tuned vocal of that here. To further A/B things better. IMHO hiding under the Autotune, is lurking a beautifully toned voice. Of course, none of us singers here have never ever EVER made even just one little misteak! Chris P.S. Hide your wallet too. Especially if you're married. LOL! |
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Post by vanguardaudiolabs on Aug 23, 2024 13:26:57 GMT -6
A vote against the B-ULS. Had a single. Never used it. Thought I should have a pair cause.....well.....just because. Never used either. Ended up selling them. I vote against the B-ULS because I fix them all the time for mic repair customers. The switches are hot garbage, the frames are fragile, and AKG charges way too much for replacements for both. Seeing some of the solder and glue work inside a few of the 414s I've been sent for repair, I will say that 'European build quality' is sometimes a myth. I currently have 2 sitting on my desk waiting for parts and 9 more on their way to me - EB, ULS, and TLii. 5 of the 11 mics need a new frame, and 8 of the 11 need at least one new switch. I do think it's funny that as soon as they discontinued the ULS/TLii people started pining for them over the new XLS. And before the ULS/TLii got discontinued people pined for the EB with a brass capsule (which IMO is the correct one to pine for). With the XLS they may have gone to surface-mount, but at least they got rid of those thrice-damned switches. ALSO NOTE that the C414B-ULS and TLii came in a storage box for a while that would shed the foam. That crap would get all over the capsule and is VERY hard to remove without damaging the capsule. Not sure why, but the shed foam became extremely sticky on the capsule face. That's not what's in the video below, fortunately - just spit and dust from a pair that's been used in live sound for 30 years. tl;dr - get a C414B-ULS at your own peril! https://www.instagram.com/p/C-ylTQiJvA- |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 23, 2024 14:45:21 GMT -6
Reminder. My Classic MXL V69me microphone is STILL not for sale. But might... Consider a V14. Plus $100 CASH. (only because we like Vanguard ) Chris P.S. Otherwise I'm getting Klaus to finally make it THEE "KH" V69. |
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Post by doubledog on Aug 23, 2024 14:55:51 GMT -6
A vote against the B-ULS. Had a single. Never used it. Thought I should have a pair cause.....well.....just because. Never used either. Ended up selling them. I vote against the B-ULS because I fix them all the time for mic repair customers. The switches are hot garbage, the frames are fragile, and AKG charges way too much for replacements for both. Seeing some of the solder and glue work inside a few of the 414s I've been sent for repair, I will say that 'European build quality' is sometimes a myth. I currently have 2 sitting on my desk waiting for parts and 9 more on their way to me - EB, ULS, and TLii. 5 of the 11 mics need a new frame, and 8 of the 11 need at least one new switch. I do think it's funny that as soon as they discontinued the ULS/TLii people started pining for them over the new XLS. And before the ULS/TLii got discontinued people pined for the EB with a brass capsule (which IMO is the correct one to pine for). With the XLS they may have gone to surface-mount, but at least they got rid of those thrice-damned switches. ALSO NOTE that the C414B-ULS and TLii came in a storage box for a while that would shed the foam. That crap would get all over the capsule and is VERY hard to remove without damaging the capsule. Not sure why, but the shed foam became extremely sticky on the capsule face. That's not what's in the video below, fortunately - just spit and dust from a pair that's been used in live sound for 30 years. tl;dr - get a C414B-ULS at your own peril! I've got a pair of 414B-ULS but I don't think they look like that (at least hopefully not), but they have spent the last 10 years or so over my drum kit. I know one of the switches is broken - like someone broke the tip off - so I have to use something small to move it, but then I rarely move these off overheads, so I don't move it... although looking at prices on these, I might just decide to sell them and get something else! |
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Post by vanguardaudiolabs on Aug 23, 2024 16:10:56 GMT -6
I've got a pair of 414B-ULS but I don't think they look like that (at least hopefully not), but they have spent the last 10 years or so over my drum kit. I know one of the switches is broken - like someone broke the tip off - so I have to use something small to move it, but then I rarely move these off overheads, so I don't move it... although looking at prices on these, I might just decide to sell them and get something else! the switches have a number of significant issues in the design. I know WHY they designed them like that - space-saving in the 414 body is a premium, and 4-way toggles don't really exist…but still. 1) The plastic tips, as you mentioned. They are easily broken by falls, catching on things, and people moving them with keys or other implements. Once they break, you can't replace the plastic. you have to replace the switch. 2) The top and bottom of the switch are a very thin gauge brass or copper. It bends easily, and over time the switch will loosen up. It's inevitable. I've tried bending them back with varying degrees of success. They're riveted together as well. 3) The switch can also quite easily be OVER-extended and bend out the tabs on the edges of that thin gauge metal. Then you can extend PAST the set point and get no signal whatsoever. 4) they are open-faced - not just unsealed, but open-faced - so they can get dirty quite easily. fortunately, they can also be cleaned quite easily because of this. 5) the solder points for the wires are TINY - surface-mount tiny! - and they are pressed right up against the frame and the PCBs. This means the Teflon-insulated wiring doesn't have a lot of purchase, and it also has to come in at a weird angle which puts pressure on the solder joint. The solder points also need to be quite small for clearance purposes, but that's less of an issue if you strip and prep the wire correctly. 6) this is just an annoyance on my part, but disassembly and remove of these switches requires removal of the PCB on some of the 414 models. But you have to remove one screw from the switch, then remove a PCB screw, then the other switch screw, and THEN the other PCB screws and lift the PCB off. It's mental. And they're using tiny flathead screws, because they hate people (I think any engineer who uses flathead screws is a misanthrope). Hilariously when they sell you a new C414B-ULS frame, you have to get 6 new screws for the switches - the new frames use an M1.4 thread, and the old ones I believe were an M1.2. Someone goofed up there. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 23, 2024 16:55:10 GMT -6
I vote against the B-ULS because I fix them all the time for mic repair customers. The switches are hot garbage, the frames are fragile, and AKG charges way too much for replacements for both. Seeing some of the solder and glue work inside a few of the 414s I've been sent for repair, I will say that 'European build quality' is sometimes a myth. I currently have 2 sitting on my desk waiting for parts and 9 more on their way to me - EB, ULS, and TLii. 5 of the 11 mics need a new frame, and 8 of the 11 need at least one new switch. I do think it's funny that as soon as they discontinued the ULS/TLii people started pining for them over the new XLS. And before the ULS/TLii got discontinued people pined for the EB with a brass capsule (which IMO is the correct one to pine for). With the XLS they may have gone to surface-mount, but at least they got rid of those thrice-damned switches. ALSO NOTE that the C414B-ULS and TLii came in a storage box for a while that would shed the foam. That crap would get all over the capsule and is VERY hard to remove without damaging the capsule. Not sure why, but the shed foam became extremely sticky on the capsule face. That's not what's in the video below, fortunately - just spit and dust from a pair that's been used in live sound for 30 years. tl;dr - get a C414B-ULS at your own peril! I've got a pair of 414B-ULS but I don't think they look like that (at least hopefully not), but they have spent the last 10 years or so over my drum kit. I know one of the switches is broken - like someone broke the tip off - so I have to use something small to move it, but then I rarely move these off overheads, so I don't move it... although looking at prices on these, I might just decide to sell them and get something else! Well I Double Dog dare you! |
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Post by doubledog on Aug 24, 2024 8:22:52 GMT -6
Well I Double Dog dare you! now you get it! |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 24, 2024 9:18:10 GMT -6
I've got a pair of 414B-ULS but I don't think they look like that (at least hopefully not), but they have spent the last 10 years or so over my drum kit. I know one of the switches is broken - like someone broke the tip off - so I have to use something small to move it, but then I rarely move these off overheads, so I don't move it... although looking at prices on these, I might just decide to sell them and get something else! the switches have a number of significant issues in the design. I know WHY they designed them like that - space-saving in the 414 body is a premium, and 4-way toggles don't really exist…but still. 1) The plastic tips, as you mentioned. They are easily broken by falls, catching on things, and people moving them with keys or other implements. Once they break, you can't replace the plastic. you have to replace the switch. 2) The top and bottom of the switch are a very thin gauge brass or copper. It bends easily, and over time the switch will loosen up. It's inevitable. I've tried bending them back with varying degrees of success. They're riveted together as well. 3) The switch can also quite easily be OVER-extended and bend out the tabs on the edges of that thin gauge metal. Then you can extend PAST the set point and get no signal whatsoever. 4) they are open-faced - not just unsealed, but open-faced - so they can get dirty quite easily. fortunately, they can also be cleaned quite easily because of this. 5) the solder points for the wires are TINY - surface-mount tiny! - and they are pressed right up against the frame and the PCBs. This means the Teflon-insulated wiring doesn't have a lot of purchase, and it also has to come in at a weird angle which puts pressure on the solder joint. The solder points also need to be quite small for clearance purposes, but that's less of an issue if you strip and prep the wire correctly. 6) this is just an annoyance on my part, but disassembly and remove of these switches requires removal of the PCB on some of the 414 models. But you have to remove one screw from the switch, then remove a PCB screw, then the other switch screw, and THEN the other PCB screws and lift the PCB off. It's mental. And they're using tiny flathead screws, because they hate people (I think any engineer who uses flathead screws is a misanthrope). Hilariously when they sell you a new C414B-ULS frame, you have to get 6 new screws for the switches - the new frames use an M1.4 thread, and the old ones I believe were an M1.2. Someone goofed up there. When I read the part about the frames last night I was laughing so hard because it’s just so Harman, so I had to text a friend who has worked for another part of Harman for over 20 years, his reply “ yeah that pretty much sums us up.” |
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Post by vanguardaudiolabs on Aug 26, 2024 10:07:14 GMT -6
Hilariously when they sell you a new C414B-ULS frame, you have to get 6 new screws for the switches - the new frames use an M1.4 thread, and the old ones I believe were an M1.2. Someone goofed up there. When I read the part about the frames last night I was laughing so hard because it’s just so Harman, so I had to text a friend who has worked for another part of Harman for over 20 years, his reply “ yeah that pretty much sums us up.” I suspect it was either a drawing error or someone used the wrong tap during production and they were just like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The first time i took one apart and tried to reframe it I was super annoyed by the discrepancy, but I have a bag of 500 M1.4*6mm screws on my desk now since it takes 6 of them per reframe. It's not the end of the world, and the stainless screws I'm using are probably superior to the ones they put in originally. AND they're phillips, not flathead, because tiny flathead screws around sensitive components are sadistic! |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2024 10:44:46 GMT -6
When I read the part about the frames last night I was laughing so hard because it’s just so Harman, so I had to text a friend who has worked for another part of Harman for over 20 years, his reply “ yeah that pretty much sums us up.” I suspect it was either a drawing error or someone used the wrong tap during production and they were just like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The first time i took one apart and tried to reframe it I was super annoyed by the discrepancy, but I have a bag of 500 M1.4*6mm screws on my desk now since it takes 6 of them per reframe. It's not the end of the world, and the stainless screws I'm using are probably superior to the ones they put in originally. AND they're phillips, not flathead, because tiny flathead screws around sensitive components are sadistic! Yeah It’s funny how that works, where would be without Fastenal / Granger / Zoro? When we moved a couple of months ago I couldn’t believe all the bags of small screws I have lying around from various projects over the years! A couple of years ago I flipped a console, I can’t remember the brand, the buyer complained that I had replaced all the mate black screws with nice new shiny stainless Phillips, had to explain to him that after the 6th screw I had to drill out because the original black where the head would strip out it just seamed like a sensible thing to do😁 |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 26, 2024 11:53:13 GMT -6
Maybe they like stripping?
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