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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 10:05:34 GMT -6
Hey all, I've been thinking about inside Bass Drum (I hate KICK) a lot lately. Beside messing with the drum, it's tuning, and muffling, I've been thinking I might need to either change my mic out (I've been using a Sennheiser e602II 95% of the time) or even my positioning and strategy.
I've had decent luck putting it just beyond the hole and about halfway in. Each time I move it around I thinks it's better than the last, but I still feel like I'm not all the way there. I like to compress and spend some time with attack and release to get the enevelope as I desire, and more lately, I've gone kind of extreme with hi-mid EQ to get attack the punches through the guitars. I still end up using a UAD SSL preset I made which isn't subtle.
I've been lucky to have a friends FET47 for about a year, and I totally get why it's such a standard as an outside mic. It doesn't sound amazing on it's own, but with the inside mic, you start pulling up the fader and it may as well just be called "THE ENHANCER." Alternate to that is a Tape Op message board (TOMB) group by ribbon placed over the shell.
So, lets have it folks. What mics are you using, where are you putting them and how are you processing them?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 17, 2024 10:30:29 GMT -6
Not ideal, but I've had to use SM58s for more than a few live recordings because thats all that was there. Put it just outside the kick/port and then usually have to add a lot of low end EQ. But still works!
I've also been trying AEA N8 about 12" or so from the front of the kick and have really liked that.
I personally prefer less mics on drums typically and don't usually shove a mic inside the drum to blend. For better or worse I suppose.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 10:44:29 GMT -6
Not ideal, but I've had to use SM58s for more than a few live recordings because thats all that was there. Put it just outside the kick/port and then usually have to add a lot of low end EQ. But still works! I've also been trying AEA N8 about 12" or so from the front of the kick and have really liked that. I personally prefer less mics on drums typically and don't usually shove a mic inside the drum to blend. For better or worse I suppose. What kind of music are you doing without a BD IN mic? |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 17, 2024 10:49:38 GMT -6
Outside - Fet47 if available. Don’t have one personally so if I’m not at the studio I use either a Cascade Fathead or….
My current favorite - Chandler TG mic. I was frustrated with this thing and thought I pissed my money away until I started using it with drums and now I love it. Nice and round, enough low end woof to keep me happy.
Inside - M88, 441, etc.
M88 is really easy to eq with different drums. Easy enough to remove the basket ball thing. Just a sculpt-able sound.
I’m a 80/20 blend and have always favored my outside mic.
A really nicely tuned BD is where it’s at though. Pull the pillows and blankets and whatever other bullshit is in there. Get good heads on. Get the beater height correct, lay a towel down on the bottom to kill any weird reflections on bad drums (or DW’s - sorry dw folks, I haven’t really ever had luck with them. Keltner does okay though so I guess it’s me). Get the beater away from the middle of the drum.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 17, 2024 10:57:10 GMT -6
I feel like my approach changes every session based on the sound I’m after and what’s available at the studio. I really haven’t settled on a standard, go-to, combo.
I was just recently looking through some old input lists from sessions I did years ago. I surprised to remember that I used two dynamics, one inside and one outside, in so many of best drum recordings. It was often something like a RE20 on the inside and a Beta 52 on the outside. I think I need to spend more time, just dedicated to experimenting with that.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Jun 17, 2024 11:00:46 GMT -6
Hey all, I've been thinking about inside Bass Drum (I hate KICK) a lot lately. Beside messing with the drum, it's tuning, and muffling, I've been thinking I might need to either change my mic out (I've been using a Sennheiser e602II 95% of the time) or even my positioning and strategy. I've had decent luck putting it just beyond the hole and about halfway in. Each time I move it around I thinks it's better than the last, but I still feel like I'm not all the way there. I like to compress and spend some time with attack and release to get the enevelope as I desire, and more lately, I've gone kind of extreme with hi-mid EQ to get attack the punches through the guitars. I still end up using a UAD SSL preset I made which isn't subtle. I've been lucky to have a friends FET47 for about a year, and I totally get why it's such a standard as an outside mic. It doesn't sound amazing on it's own, but with the inside mic, you start pulling up the fader and it may as well just be called "THE ENHANCER." Alternate to that is a Tape Op message board (TOMB) group by ribbon placed over the shell. So, let’s have it folks. What mics are you using, where are you putting them and how are you processing them? What type of music are you making? What sound are you going for? Huge gap between Led Zep and Def Leppard or jazz. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 17, 2024 11:15:10 GMT -6
Not ideal, but I've had to use SM58s for more than a few live recordings because thats all that was there. Put it just outside the kick/port and then usually have to add a lot of low end EQ. But still works! I've also been trying AEA N8 about 12" or so from the front of the kick and have really liked that. I personally prefer less mics on drums typically and don't usually shove a mic inside the drum to blend. For better or worse I suppose. What kind of music are you doing without a BD IN mic? Mostly Jazz and soft/pop/rockish singer song writer stuff. |
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Post by keymod on Jun 17, 2024 12:35:49 GMT -6
A simple Audix D6 right inside the port works really well.
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Post by theshea on Jun 17, 2024 12:44:31 GMT -6
i admit it: i am lazy lately. i put a d112 in front and be done. than in the mix i gate it and whats been missing i add with a sample. done.
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Post by ragan on Jun 17, 2024 12:47:44 GMT -6
Outside - Fet47 if available. Don’t have one personally so if I’m not at the studio I use either a Cascade Fathead or…. My current favorite - Chandler TG mic. I was frustrated with this thing and thought I pissed my money away until I started using it with drums and now I love it. Nice and round, enough low end woof to keep me happy. Inside - M88, 441, etc. M88 is really easy to eq with different drums. Easy enough to remove the basket ball thing. Just a sculpt-able sound. I’m a 80/20 blend and have always favored my outside mic. A really nicely tuned BD is where it’s at though. Pull the pillows and blankets and whatever other bullshit is in there. Get good heads on. Get the beater height correct, lay a towel down on the bottom to kill any weird reflections on bad drums (or DW’s - sorry dw folks, I haven’t really ever had luck with them. Keltner does okay though so I guess it’s me). Get the beater away from the middle of the drum. Can you elaborate on the beater off center thing? |
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2024 13:17:56 GMT -6
Inside is a D6, but it's sort of halfway into the sound hole and pointed just offset from the beater. People hate on the D6 but it's super critical to point it at the right spot and get it at the right distance inside the sound hole.
Outside is either a U47, a LDC attachment for a MK012 or a subkick.
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Post by kbsmoove on Jun 17, 2024 13:28:28 GMT -6
first, tune the drum. i don't know how many people are ready to just hit record without tuning the drum first, but it seems like a lot of folks don't give kick (sorry, bass drum!) tuning half the care they give toms and snares. it makes a huge difference.
assuming you're recording a drum that sounds good - pick a mic and technique that works for the sound you're going for and experiment until it sounds good.
recently i have been into using a fig8 inside the drum. this gets the attack from the beater and the depth of the reso head. it takes a minute to get the placement right, but to me its way less fussy than inside/outside mics can be. i like the dr alien smith alien8, but the heiserman type 19 is also awesome and handles the level fine inside the drum.
for some stuff, i love a d6 about 1/2 inside the drum with an outside kick mic. heiserman type 19 is my favorite outside. slams.
if i'm looking for something less heavy, an re20 sounds awesome just inside the port.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 13:31:44 GMT -6
Hey all, I've been thinking about inside Bass Drum (I hate KICK) a lot lately. Beside messing with the drum, it's tuning, and muffling, I've been thinking I might need to either change my mic out (I've been using a Sennheiser e602II 95% of the time) or even my positioning and strategy. I've had decent luck putting it just beyond the hole and about halfway in. Each time I move it around I thinks it's better than the last, but I still feel like I'm not all the way there. I like to compress and spend some time with attack and release to get the enevelope as I desire, and more lately, I've gone kind of extreme with hi-mid EQ to get attack the punches through the guitars. I still end up using a UAD SSL preset I made which isn't subtle. I've been lucky to have a friends FET47 for about a year, and I totally get why it's such a standard as an outside mic. It doesn't sound amazing on it's own, but with the inside mic, you start pulling up the fader and it may as well just be called "THE ENHANCER." Alternate to that is a Tape Op message board (TOMB) group by ribbon placed over the shell. So, let’s have it folks. What mics are you using, where are you putting them and how are you processing them? What type of music are you making? What sound are you going for? Huge gap between Led Zep and Def Leppard or jazz. I'm thinking more in a distorted guitar based context. I want impact and drive, but I don't want only that. A simple Audix D6 right inside the port works really well. I feel like that mix gets labled "metal kick" but maybe there's more to it. i admit it: i am lazy lately. i put a d112 in front and be done. than in the mix i gate it and whats been missing i add with a sample. done. Pointed at the front head? |
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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 13:33:49 GMT -6
first, tune the drum. i don't know how many people are ready to just hit record without tuning the drum first, but it seems like a lot of folks don't give kick (sorry, bass drum!) tuning half the care they give toms and snares. it makes a huge difference. assuming you're recording a drum that sounds good - pick a mic and technique that works for the sound you're going for and experiment until it sounds good. recently i have been into using a fig8 inside the drum. this gets the attack from the beater and the depth of the reso head. it takes a minute to get the placement right, but to me its way less fussy than inside/outside mics can be. i like the dr alien smith alien8, but the heiserman type 19 is also awesome and handles the level fine inside the drum. for some stuff, i love a d6 about 1/2 inside the drum with an outside kick mic. heiserman type 19 is my favorite outside. slams. if i'm looking for something less heavy, an re20 sounds awesome just inside the port. I forgot about the Alien8. Off to Reverb... |
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Post by kbsmoove on Jun 17, 2024 13:38:00 GMT -6
I forgot about the Alien8. Off to Reverb... it can be a bit fussy and it doesn't always sound good in every drum - sometimes the attack is unflattering. but when it works its pretty remarkable. i try it first most of the time, and swap it out maybe 30% of the time. but this it true of pretty much any "go-to" for me. |
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Post by jaba on Jun 17, 2024 13:57:32 GMT -6
As maligned as it is, I often use a D112 because 1) it's often what I have available, and 2) it's totally fine.
After some EQ, often a bit of Sans-Amp, plus bleed from other mics (something further back, even overheads) I'm more than happy with the sound I get.
Said that, when at a studio where I also do a lot of tracking, I tend to use a D12. A bit of EQ and it's done. I like it a lot but would never pay today's prices for one myself.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 17, 2024 15:17:51 GMT -6
I haven't gotten to try it, but I'm really wanting to get the DPA kick mic.
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Post by copperx on Jun 17, 2024 15:26:11 GMT -6
Lately I got great results with a WA47jr in figure 8 to reduce the "basketball" effect. I like it better than any dynamic that I've tried in naturalness.
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Post by robo on Jun 17, 2024 16:13:41 GMT -6
My inside mic is usually an EV868 (since replaced by EV68) just inside the front head. It gives a flexible, full range capture that a touch of eq can shape into anything needed. If I have a close room mic (R84 usually) or beefier overhead(s) then usually no second mic.
I also like an RE20 in the same spot, with the EV or an LDC outside adding some depth. More of a punchy midrange sound from the RE20, but it needs the extra body from an outside mic blended in.
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Post by christophert on Jun 17, 2024 16:34:35 GMT -6
I mainly use an Alien 8, usually 3 inches inside of the hole - or just inside.
Outside I swap from 47Fet / Heiserman Type 19 or a D12E.
I do EQ both mics (usually a Neve 1080 series / Miaad (incredible) > hardly ever compressed unless it is hip hop or metal
Positioning and choice of both mics depends on the music.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 16:53:38 GMT -6
I forgot about the Alien8. Off to Reverb... it can be a bit fussy and it doesn't always sound good in every drum - sometimes the attack is unflattering. but when it works its pretty remarkable. i try it first most of the time, and swap it out maybe 30% of the time. but this it true of pretty much any "go-to" for me. I get the 30% thing for sure. As maligned as it is, I often use a D112 because 1) it's often what I have available, and 2) it's totally fine. After some EQ, often a bit of Sans-Amp, plus bleed from other mics (something further back, even overheads) I'm more than happy with the sound I get. Said that, when at a studio where I also do a lot of tracking, I tend to use a D12. A bit of EQ and it's done. I like it a lot but would never pay today's prices for one myself. I just got an email back from Land in Nashville. I think I'm going to send my D12 out to him soon. Lately I got great results with a WA47jr in figure 8 to reduce the "basketball" effect. I like it better than any dynamic that I've tried in naturalness. It works inside the drum and doesn't collapse? My inside mic is usually an EV868 (since replaced by EV68) just inside the front head. It gives a flexible, full range capture that a touch of eq can shape into anything needed. If I have a close room mic (R84 usually) or beefier overhead(s) then usually no second mic. I also like an RE20 in the same spot, with the EV or an LDC outside adding some depth. More of a punchy midrange sound from the RE20, but it needs the extra body from an outside mic blended in. That reminds me that I need to get my PL20 repaired one of these days. |
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Post by doubledog on Jun 17, 2024 16:55:26 GMT -6
Inside (or about half way in the port) my regular mic is the Telefunken M-82. If I want a more natural sound, then the Miktek PM11 is really great (and works on bass cabinets nicely too). Next would be an Audix D6. Also don't discount your mic preamp. I've been using an Avedis MA5 and I still have not heard anything else that I like as well. It's huge.
On the outside I'm currently using one of the sE X1-D's (into a Hairball Bronze). oh, and a DIY subkick too. I almost always record it, but rarely use it (or need it).
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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 17:00:39 GMT -6
Inside (or about half way in the port) my regular mic is the Telefunken M-82. If I want a more natural sound, then the Miktek PM11 is really great (and works on bass cabinets nicely too). Next would be an Audix D6. Also don't discount your mic preamp. I've been using an Avedis MA5 and I still have not heard anything else that I like as well. It's huge. On the outside I'm currently using one of the sE X1-D's (into a Hairball Bronze). X1D is really good outside BD, so is the X1R |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 17, 2024 17:36:51 GMT -6
Outside - Fet47 if available. Don’t have one personally so if I’m not at the studio I use either a Cascade Fathead or…. My current favorite - Chandler TG mic. I was frustrated with this thing and thought I pissed my money away until I started using it with drums and now I love it. Nice and round, enough low end woof to keep me happy. Inside - M88, 441, etc. M88 is really easy to eq with different drums. Easy enough to remove the basket ball thing. Just a sculpt-able sound. I’m a 80/20 blend and have always favored my outside mic. A really nicely tuned BD is where it’s at though. Pull the pillows and blankets and whatever other bullshit is in there. Get good heads on. Get the beater height correct, lay a towel down on the bottom to kill any weird reflections on bad drums (or DW’s - sorry dw folks, I haven’t really ever had luck with them. Keltner does okay though so I guess it’s me). Get the beater away from the middle of the drum. Can you elaborate on the beater off center thing? Sure - I read an article with Stanton Moore about 15 years ago where he said he preferred 20” and 24” bass drums because bass drums sound better when the beater is above or below the center of the drum. So he keeps his beater height the same so the feel is established as the same (or the travel I guess would be the better term) and the drum gets switched out for what sound he wants. I thought it was kinda hogwash and then on the next drum session I had time and opportunity to mess about with a willing drummer, we started moving the beater up and down and I’ll be damned if the center of the head was the worse sounding spot for the beater to be located. I’m not saying it’ll work for every situation, but I haven’t had a beater In the center of the drum for many many years. Give it a shot! |
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Post by bgrotto on Jun 17, 2024 18:00:30 GMT -6
D12vr on inside kick as of late. Usually into an SSL eq, though I've been demoing the UTA 500 and HOLY FUCKING FUCK, er, I mean, it's pretty good.
Usually track with a distressor, sometimes I'll do a 76A if I'm looking for that weird bloom / LF distortion thing.
Outside is some flavor of 47 FET, or the Dr Alien Worm, sorta wrapping around the whole kit for sub goodness. For compression, it's usually distressor or 160VU. Sometimes a 76D. Sometimes a BAE 10DCF.
Summed to PT, then gated via key spike, Q3 or Kirchhoff for cleanup if needed, Heritage 73 or API 550 for shaping, and maybe another round of dynamics (anything/everything from transient to compression to limiting or clipping, or all the above).
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