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Post by Dan on Jun 12, 2024 17:22:08 GMT -6
sorry if i came across as combative. i agree with you. i was just trying to say that what is done to prevent distortion in dynamics processors can change the sound. it's probably the anti-alias filter in nova, which is relatively transparent compared to the ones in weiss ds1/eq1 which is more transparent or rather more immediate than the mdweq one at 44.1 khz. running nova at 192 khz gets the filter out of the audio path. kotelnikov at 88.2 khz and up but the sidechain is at least 16x oversampled on insane. molot, well precise at 192 khz is out of the path but insane still has it at 384 khz suggesting the audio path goes at least to 768 khz.
higher sample rate sessions (and recordings) get these filters out of the audio path or push the higher pre ringing well outside of the audible range. of course then you often have more imd that's getting filtered out in lower sample rate sessions (say 1-2x rates) getting modulated in the higher sample rate ones and the end product is almost always 44.1 or 48 khz.
Wait I was responding to itzprime. Is that also you dan? quoted wrong post
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Post by ragan on Jun 12, 2024 17:34:04 GMT -6
Wait I was responding to itzprime. Is that also you dan? quoted wrong post Oh ok. I didn’t think you were being combative at all.
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Post by ragan on Jun 13, 2024 0:08:58 GMT -6
Revisted what I did last night with Oxford Dynamics, and also used it scattered around another track. Still impressive. I'll be buying this. Trying to figure out now if I'm interested in bundling with other stuff for further discounts. I tried the reverb and it was meh for me. Already have Inflator.
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Post by subspace on Jun 13, 2024 1:25:56 GMT -6
Used the sale to update their $99 Essential Native Bundle from Pluginboutique to the HDX version, great deal for Oxford EQ, Dynamics, Reverb and SuprEsser HDX.
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Post by ragan on Jun 13, 2024 10:08:26 GMT -6
TransMod is also super cool. I definitely prefer it to the Softube Transient Shaper.
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Post by ragan on Jun 13, 2024 14:52:52 GMT -6
I want Dynamics and TransMod. Might just get a bundle.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 13, 2024 16:39:02 GMT -6
I want Dynamics and TransMod. Might just get a bundle. Those are the two I got. I bought them yesterday @ Plugin Discounts. Not sure if it would've been cheaper to get them via a bundle from Sonnox directly. I didn't even think about that option... And I agree about TransMod > Softube Tranient Shaper
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Post by ragan on Jun 13, 2024 16:57:08 GMT -6
I want Dynamics and TransMod. Might just get a bundle. Those are the two I got. I bought them yesterday @ Plugin Discounts. Not sure if it would've been cheaper to get them via a bundle from Sonnox directly. I didn't even think about that option... And I agree about TransMod > Softube Tranient Shaper It sounds a lot less processed. I was amazed at what I could do to drums and bass with TransMod.
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Post by seawell on Jun 13, 2024 17:08:43 GMT -6
Revisted what I did last night with Oxford Dynamics, and also used it scattered around another track. Still impressive. I'll be buying this. Trying to figure out now if I'm interested in bundling with other stuff for further discounts. I tried the reverb and it was meh for me. Already have Inflator. What would you compare the compressor to? That’s the one I’m looking at. I already have Transmod, I agree it’s great and definitely different from the usual offerings. Oxford drum gate has become my favorite gate as well if anyone is in the market for that. I shot it out against the silencer plugin and the sonnox retained the punch of the transients way better in my opinion.
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Post by Dan on Jun 13, 2024 23:47:24 GMT -6
Oh ok. I didn’t think you were being combative at all. yeah just wanted to be clarify. Danger of overmixing is real with both analog and digital and then nothing punches out of the speakers or gets a weird distortion all over it as heard when using too much of many mixers / consoles / interfaces / plugins
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Post by Dan on Jun 13, 2024 23:51:31 GMT -6
Used the sale to update their $99 Essential Native Bundle from Pluginboutique to the HDX version, great deal for Oxford EQ, Dynamics, Reverb and SuprEsser HDX. they’re probably the best aax dsp plugins along with the pro audio dsp dsm also conceived by Paul Frindle
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Post by sean on Jun 14, 2024 8:08:30 GMT -6
Revisted what I did last night with Oxford Dynamics, and also used it scattered around another track. Still impressive. I'll be buying this. Trying to figure out now if I'm interested in bundling with other stuff for further discounts. I tried the reverb and it was meh for me. Already have Inflator. What would you compare the compressor to? That’s the one I’m looking at. I already have Transmod, I agree it’s great and definitely different from the usual offerings. Oxford drum gate has become my favorite gate as well if anyone is in the market for that. I shot it out against the silencer plugin and the sonnox retained the punch of the transients way better in my opinion. I guess functionality wise I’d compare it to something like a SSL channel strip. I end up using it a lot on really dynamic vocals…I can usually get away with a decent amount of compression without too much negative effect on the tone, which cuts down on automation time. It can also be helpful on overly transient sources, like a banjo or sometimes drums, using the compressor in conjunction with the limiter set to grab to really aggressive peaks. Warmth can be nice sometimes, just a touch seems to be enough.
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Post by ragan on Jun 14, 2024 8:18:38 GMT -6
Revisted what I did last night with Oxford Dynamics, and also used it scattered around another track. Still impressive. I'll be buying this. Trying to figure out now if I'm interested in bundling with other stuff for further discounts. I tried the reverb and it was meh for me. Already have Inflator. What would you compare the compressor to? That’s the one I’m looking at. I already have Transmod, I agree it’s great and definitely different from the usual offerings. Oxford drum gate has become my favorite gate as well if anyone is in the market for that. I shot it out against the silencer plugin and the sonnox retained the punch of the transients way better in my opinion. I'm not sure, totally. It's a utilitarian, flexible comp. But it feels/sounds more sort of muscular and assertive to me than many others. I'm finding that's a common theme with the Oxford stuff - it's assertive. When you make a move, it's strongly controlling the audio in a way that feels more solid to my ears. That's obviously a bunch of super fluffy verbiage, but that's how it strikes me, sonically.
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Post by phantom on Jun 14, 2024 8:36:34 GMT -6
"Assertive"
I like this word to describe the Compressor.
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Post by Dan on Jun 14, 2024 9:02:49 GMT -6
What would you compare the compressor to? That’s the one I’m looking at. I already have Transmod, I agree it’s great and definitely different from the usual offerings. Oxford drum gate has become my favorite gate as well if anyone is in the market for that. I shot it out against the silencer plugin and the sonnox retained the punch of the transients way better in my opinion. I guess functionality wise I’d compare it to something like a SSL channel strip. I end up using it a lot on really dynamic vocals…I can usually get away with a decent amount of compression without too much negative effect on the tone, which cuts down on automation time. It can also be helpful on overly transient sources, like a banjo or sometimes drums, using the compressor in conjunction with the limiter set to grab to really aggressive peaks. Warmth can be nice sometimes, just a touch seems to be enough. Agreed 100% but it sounds more normal than an SSL channel comp where fast attack is often too fast and slow attack too smacky. Then there's the awful peak button on many of the rack units and plugs (where these on a console?) that turns it into a shitbox.
The Oxford Limiter can be used as a far more aggressive SSL bus compressor too with less of a sweet spot. It hugs the audio better unlike the SSL bus where so much of it depends on automating your faders into the sweet spot of gain reduction (on auto release of course and pray to god that your unit has the real auto release circuit and not the incorrect one in the old gyraf schematics) that depends on attack and ratio where otherwise it can sound extremely stupid. Of course in real world use, the Oxford Limiter sounds like a guitar pedal half the time...
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Post by ragan on Jun 14, 2024 9:25:39 GMT -6
Wow Voca is also really cool.
Did my EQ AB thing with Oxford EQ vs FabFilter. Oxford EQ fared better than TDR Nova, but I still preferred FabFilter. Which is good, because I don't know if I could convince myself to work on that little cramped Oxford EQ GUI.
But I'm super impressed with Voca. On vocals, but also on lots of other stuff. Amazing on drum rooms/kit mics.
So I'm buying Dynamics, TransMod, and Voca for sure. Continuing the demo-thon to see if I want other stuff.
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Post by seawell on Jun 14, 2024 9:44:56 GMT -6
Thanks for the info guys! I'm out of town for a few days so I'm living vicariously through you until I'm back in the studio 😁
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Post by Dan on Jun 14, 2024 10:07:40 GMT -6
What would you compare the compressor to? That’s the one I’m looking at. I already have Transmod, I agree it’s great and definitely different from the usual offerings. Oxford drum gate has become my favorite gate as well if anyone is in the market for that. I shot it out against the silencer plugin and the sonnox retained the punch of the transients way better in my opinion. I'm not sure, totally. It's a utilitarian, flexible comp. But it feels/sounds more sort of muscular and assertive to me than many others. I'm finding that's a common theme with the Oxford stuff - it's assertive. When you make a move, it's strongly controlling the audio in a way that feels more solid to my ears. That's obviously a bunch of super fluffy verbiage, but that's how it strikes me, sonically. oxford dynamics works like a less aggressive lookahead limiter without the clippers and other bs. it has a lookahead of 16 samples to smooth the attack with a windowed maximum filter so is forced to attack for a minimum amount of time to mitigate aliasing distortion and not release prematurely because it is always reducing gain 16 samples in advance of the signal. time is the reciprocal of frequency so reciprocal of 44100 hz and multiply that by 16 to get the minimum amount of time the oxford dynamics must attack for which is 0.000363 seconds instead of switching between gain reduction and gain recovery instantly with the signal. take the reciprocal of that and you get 2756.25 hz for the maximum rate of the ox dynamics attack / release switching. this means that the compressor always moves slower at a 44100 kHz sample rate than the signal frequencies over that so it cannot compress them, merely ramping the volume down before them, unlike most analog compressors and modern oversampled digital ones where attack and release are just rates, not fixed amounts of time usually. thus the slightly mid forward sound from holding down the high end.
the most comparable plugin is the waves renaissance compressor but that has an even longer lookahead of 64 samples. which means it must attack for about 0.001451 seconds which means its modulation rate is 689.0625 hz hence the comically dark sound especially when you use the low frequency distortion warmth function on it unlike warm in ox dynamics which pushes the signal upwards into a wave shaper. of course r comp has more release program dependencies with the arc auto release and opto/electro for the first 3 db of gain reduction but ox dyn lets you have an entirely separate limiter process (just the compressor with infinite ratio and differently scaled attack/release knobs i believe) for just the peaks post makeup and it will still only pick to use one so you don't have only a set amount of fast or slower gain reduction you can do.
of course now we still have all kinda of nasty compressors aliased garbage, garbage with too long lookaheads, compressors that make you select the oversampling and stock, sound like a 3630, etc.
dan
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Post by phantom on Jun 14, 2024 11:28:11 GMT -6
Wow Voca is also really cool. Did my EQ AB thing with Oxford EQ vs FabFilter. Oxford EQ fared better than TDR Nova, but I still preferred FabFilter. Which is good, because I don't know if I could convince myself to work on that little cramped Oxford EQ GUI. But I'm super impressed with Voca. On vocals, but also on lots of other stuff. Amazing on drum rooms/kit mics. So I'm buying Dynamics, TransMod, and Voca for sure. Continuing the demo-thon to see if I want other stuff. Not an Oxford plugin, but if you got time any day, try Fabfilter against MDWEQ. I would like to hear your opinion. It was the only digital eq that made forget the better workflow on ProQ.
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Post by vvvooojjj on Jun 14, 2024 11:29:43 GMT -6
I ended up buying Dynamics, Voca, Eq and Transmod. And bought the VoxDoubler last week.
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Post by ragan on Jun 14, 2024 12:03:26 GMT -6
Wow Voca is also really cool. Did my EQ AB thing with Oxford EQ vs FabFilter. Oxford EQ fared better than TDR Nova, but I still preferred FabFilter. Which is good, because I don't know if I could convince myself to work on that little cramped Oxford EQ GUI. But I'm super impressed with Voca. On vocals, but also on lots of other stuff. Amazing on drum rooms/kit mics. So I'm buying Dynamics, TransMod, and Voca for sure. Continuing the demo-thon to see if I want other stuff. Not an Oxford plugin, but if you got time any day, try Fabfilter against MDWEQ. I would like to hear your opinion. It was the only digital eq that made forget the better workflow on ProQ. Yeah that one is definitely on my radar. Is it still lol pricing? I won’t even demo DSP if the company is pretending they are 2010 UAD.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 14, 2024 12:30:25 GMT -6
I'm not sure, totally. It's a utilitarian, flexible comp. But it feels/sounds more sort of muscular and assertive to me than many others. I'm finding that's a common theme with the Oxford stuff - it's assertive. When you make a move, it's strongly controlling the audio in a way that feels more solid to my ears. That's obviously a bunch of super fluffy verbiage, but that's how it strikes me, sonically. oxford dynamics works like a less aggressive lookahead limiter without the clippers and other bs. it has a lookahead of 16 samples to smooth the attack with a windowed maximum filter so is forced to attack for a minimum amount of time to mitigate aliasing distortion and not release prematurely because it is always reducing gain 16 samples in advance of the signal. time is the reciprocal of frequency so reciprocal of 44100 hz and multiply that by 16 to get the minimum amount of time the oxford dynamics must attack for which is 0.000363 seconds instead of switching between gain reduction and gain recovery instantly with the signal. take the reciprocal of that and you get 2756.25 hz for the maximum rate of the ox dynamics attack / release switching. this means that the compressor always moves slower at a 44100 kHz sample rate than the signal frequencies over that so it cannot compress them, merely ramping the volume down before them, unlike most analog compressors and modern oversampled digital ones where attack and release are just rates, not fixed amounts of time usually. thus the slightly mid forward sound from holding down the high end.
the most comparable plugin is the waves renaissance compressor but that has an even longer lookahead of 64 samples. which means it must attack for about 0.001451 seconds which means its modulation rate is 689.0625 hz hence the comically dark sound especially when you use the low frequency distortion warmth function on it unlike warm in ox dynamics which pushes the signal upwards into a wave shaper. of course r comp has more release program dependencies with the arc auto release and opto/electro for the first 3 db of gain reduction but ox dyn lets you have an entirely separate limiter process (just the compressor with infinite ratio and differently scaled attack/release knobs i believe) for just the peaks post makeup and it will still only pick to use one so you don't have only a set amount of fast or slower gain reduction you can do.
of course now we still have all kinda of nasty compressors aliased garbage, garbage with too long lookaheads, compressors that make you select the oversampling and stock, sound like a 3630, etc.
dan
Thanks so much for this explanation, Dan. So what happens at 96k? Is there no compression happening over about 6kHz? Or am I applying the math wrong on that?
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Post by Dan on Jun 14, 2024 13:26:23 GMT -6
oxford dynamics works like a less aggressive lookahead limiter without the clippers and other bs. it has a lookahead of 16 samples to smooth the attack with a windowed maximum filter so is forced to attack for a minimum amount of time to mitigate aliasing distortion and not release prematurely because it is always reducing gain 16 samples in advance of the signal. time is the reciprocal of frequency so reciprocal of 44100 hz and multiply that by 16 to get the minimum amount of time the oxford dynamics must attack for which is 0.000363 seconds instead of switching between gain reduction and gain recovery instantly with the signal. take the reciprocal of that and you get 2756.25 hz for the maximum rate of the ox dynamics attack / release switching. this means that the compressor always moves slower at a 44100 kHz sample rate than the signal frequencies over that so it cannot compress them, merely ramping the volume down before them, unlike most analog compressors and modern oversampled digital ones where attack and release are just rates, not fixed amounts of time usually. thus the slightly mid forward sound from holding down the high end.
the most comparable plugin is the waves renaissance compressor but that has an even longer lookahead of 64 samples. which means it must attack for about 0.001451 seconds which means its modulation rate is 689.0625 hz hence the comically dark sound especially when you use the low frequency distortion warmth function on it unlike warm in ox dynamics which pushes the signal upwards into a wave shaper. of course r comp has more release program dependencies with the arc auto release and opto/electro for the first 3 db of gain reduction but ox dyn lets you have an entirely separate limiter process (just the compressor with infinite ratio and differently scaled attack/release knobs i believe) for just the peaks post makeup and it will still only pick to use one so you don't have only a set amount of fast or slower gain reduction you can do.
of course now we still have all kinda of nasty compressors aliased garbage, garbage with too long lookaheads, compressors that make you select the oversampling and stock, sound like a 3630, etc.
dan
Thanks so much for this explanation, Dan. So what happens at 96k? Is there no compression happening over about 6kHz? Or am I applying the math wrong on that? It still lowers their volume, it just ramps down the gain in advance so produces no distortion beyond that of smooth automation. It's not really compressing the entire audible or recorded spectrum. They're keeping the lookahead time largely the same but they're adjusting envelope smoothing FIR filter to let it compress higher frequencies a little bit but keeping the aliasing garbage down. Just doing the basic math and checking with TDR Prism in Reaper.
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Post by itzprime on Jun 14, 2024 14:16:31 GMT -6
Wow Voca is also really cool. Did my EQ AB thing with Oxford EQ vs FabFilter. Oxford EQ fared better than TDR Nova, but I still preferred FabFilter. Which is good, because I don't know if I could convince myself to work on that little cramped Oxford EQ GUI. But I'm super impressed with Voca. On vocals, but also on lots of other stuff. Amazing on drum rooms/kit mics. So I'm buying Dynamics, TransMod, and Voca for sure. Continuing the demo-thon to see if I want other stuff. Yeah Voca is the best instant pop vocals. Super easy to use, sounds great.
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Post by phantom on Jun 14, 2024 14:21:26 GMT -6
Not an Oxford plugin, but if you got time any day, try Fabfilter against MDWEQ. I would like to hear your opinion. It was the only digital eq that made forget the better workflow on ProQ. Yeah that one is definitely on my radar. Is it still lol pricing? I won’t even demo DSP if the company is pretending they are 2010 UAD. yes, it's still at "premium" price. altough they did a sale these days, but I don't remember how much were they charging. but I had to get it, I was thinking too much about it.
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