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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2024 14:52:10 GMT -6
I’m a die hard real amp guy. But I live my Axe Fx jut as much as my real amps. If I were to find a “fault” with the af3 it would be that’s it’s almost too good, or too smooth…the opposite of harsh. Totally agree. I think donr said this once and I thought it was a good description. The Axe FX sounds like the e most pristine versions of these amps - or something like that. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 16, 2024 14:56:07 GMT -6
Yeah but you can always just put Vintage Warmer after it…
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2024 14:59:57 GMT -6
Yeah but you can always just put Vintage Warmer after it… Just think he’s referring to amp nonlinearities like tube condition and bias, sag…whatever those things are |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 16, 2024 15:10:43 GMT -6
I have no idea where I can get a demo of one - it's not a retail item in my part of the world. Perhaps it's a second hand purchase - suck and see job and it's as simple as that. Why would you even want one? I mean - if you love amps...great. They're the real thing. Why, because tube amps are really frikkin loud! I had two separate rooms and I could record my tube amps at stage volume and they sounded great. Now I'm in one room and as I prefer tracking with the sound coming back through my studio monitors (ala Tim Pierce) I'm now stuffed loosing my guitar cab room. So I'm now left using attenuators/ load boxes which is a compromise in tone and feel or simply going down the modelling route. I'm currently deciding which compromise is the one I'll feel most happy with. It's a big decision as most of these solutions aren't cheap. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2024 15:11:41 GMT -6
Why would you even want one? I mean - if you love amps...great. They're the real thing. Why, because tube amps are really frikkin loud! I had two separate rooms and I could record my tube amps at stage volume and they sound great. Now I'm in one room and as I prefer tracking with the sound coming back through my studio monitors (ala Tim Pierce) I'm now stuffed loosing my guitar cab room. So I'm now left using attenuators/ load boxes which is a compromise in tone and feel or simply going down the modelling route. I'm currently deciding which compromise is the one I'll feel most happy with. It's a big decision as most of these solutions aren't cheap. You sell one of those tube amps and it’s paid for. But your reasons are the exact reasons I had for getting it. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 16, 2024 15:16:05 GMT -6
Yeah but you can always just put Vintage Warmer after it… Just think he’s referring to amp nonlinearities like tube condition and bias, sag…whatever those things are noise. 5150. Sag and bias are emulated now. What’s not emulated is how butt current small signal tubes mostly are. They are made in formerly communist states using equipment from the 60s that’s wearing out… |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 16, 2024 19:34:30 GMT -6
I’m a die hard real amp guy. But I live my Axe Fx jut as much as my real amps. If I were to find a “fault” with the af3 it would be that’s it’s almost too good, or too smooth…the opposite of harsh. Totally agree. I think donr said this once and I thought it was a good description. The Axe FX sounds like the e most pristine versions of these amps - or something like that. Ive been messing around in the presets and have found a few ways to make the amp sims a little livelier and raw. I found turning down the sag to 0 in both the preamp and power amps helps a lot. And also turning down the speaker compression too. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 17, 2024 2:17:31 GMT -6
I've just watched a video of Tim Pierce demoing the Fractal FM9 and hey .... it sounds really fantastic!!
I'm slowly learning towards going down the Fractal route and as a great addition to my amps.
The FM3 is not cheap but equally not too expensive in the overall scheme of things.
Impressive without doubt.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 17, 2024 2:32:25 GMT -6
Why, because tube amps are really frikkin loud! I had two separate rooms and I could record my tube amps at stage volume and they sound great. Now I'm in one room and as I prefer tracking with the sound coming back through my studio monitors (ala Tim Pierce) I'm now stuffed loosing my guitar cab room. So I'm now left using attenuators/ load boxes which is a compromise in tone and feel or simply going down the modelling route. I'm currently deciding which compromise is the one I'll feel most happy with. It's a big decision as most of these solutions aren't cheap. You sell one of those tube amps and it’s paid for. But your reasons are the exact reasons I had for getting it. John, you're right - I can sell one of my tube amp and buy an Axe FX III - rack it up and get back to recording. Probably sell some of my pedals too and shrink my over-sized pedal board! I just discovered there's a Fractal UK - with proper support and service back-up s0 that kinda cements it for me I'm fairly sure this is the solution I'm looking for.  |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 17, 2024 9:20:09 GMT -6
You sell one of those tube amps and it’s paid for. But your reasons are the exact reasons I had for getting it. John, you're right - I can sell one of my tube amp and buy an Axe FX III - rack it up and get back to recording. Probably sell some of my pedals too and shrink my over-sized pedal board! I just discovered there's a Fractal UK - with proper support and service back-up s0 that kinda cements it for me I'm fairly sure this is the solution I'm looking for. Man, I really hope this works for you! I'm always looking for better solutions for quiet recording, too. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 18, 2024 0:28:57 GMT -6
I have been looking at the AXE FX line up. The prices of these things in OZ... is a bit HUUUUUUGEEEE...... The FM3 II turbo.. .is close to affordable. A few questions... 1. All the units have the same sound? its just processing that differs? (apart from physical considerations, foot switches ins an outs etc...) 2. Reamping, are you or have you done it....? 3. Aggregate devices with Sonoma?... same as 2. I am a pretty simple sort of guitar guy..... Listening to some of the amps online I thought they sounded really good. I am pretty much a fender, Marshall, Vox guitar into say comp, drive pedals, tremolo, chorus, flanger, delay, amp with Strat Tele Les Paul. I don't do ambienty type of music or heavy metal.... Looking at the three units FM3 FM9 and AXE FX III it seems like the FM3 would sit nicely.....I don't imagine taking this thing out live.. so its Studio only.... I run the apollo with Luna, but also have Logic Pro.... looking into the re amping side of things...seems at first glance Logic would be needed to be used to do that because of the I/O Plugin...which although not ideal... is possible. I like the look of the FM EDIT Software.... So... you AXE FX dudes Johnkenn looking at you? and @svaart as well.....how well did these things work out for you...? cheers Wiz First, I own Svart’s old Axe FX lol. Second…I literally sat down today and spent three hours playing. It’s just unbelievable. The current FW is just striking IMO. The newest AC30 Brilliant Channel is the best sounding AC30 emu I’ve ever heard. The Morgan AC20 is killer…Matchless DC30 awesome…and then 20 other Vox style amps…then Fenders are just nuts. My fave is the Vibroverb…the new springs. I mean - you’re going to be blown away. That’s a bit effusive after re-reading…but seriously, it’s been one of my favorite purchases (yes multiples lol) ever. The edge of breakup tones imo are just on another level from the other stuff… Yes - all the units are the same sounds. New FW trickles down from the III, so it can be delayed for the FM family. I bought a v1 FM3 and I could max it pretty easily with more than just verb and one other. But the new turbo should have helped that. You could still totally get by with the original fm3 if you’re just doing dryer guitar stuff like I’ve heard of yours. I’ve yet to do any reamping, but I do everything analog… You wanna hear any specific amps? John, which unit do you have the rack unit or one of the floor units? Do you use the digital output? - it appears to be 48Khz which is good as that's the sample rate I work at. Do you use use additional FX pedals or just the built in FX and DAW FX? I think broadly we probably have similar needs in terms of tracking and mixing guitars. Thanks tht |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2024 10:42:01 GMT -6
First, I own Svart’s old Axe FX lol. Second…I literally sat down today and spent three hours playing. It’s just unbelievable. The current FW is just striking IMO. The newest AC30 Brilliant Channel is the best sounding AC30 emu I’ve ever heard. The Morgan AC20 is killer…Matchless DC30 awesome…and then 20 other Vox style amps…then Fenders are just nuts. My fave is the Vibroverb…the new springs. I mean - you’re going to be blown away. That’s a bit effusive after re-reading…but seriously, it’s been one of my favorite purchases (yes multiples lol) ever. The edge of breakup tones imo are just on another level from the other stuff… Yes - all the units are the same sounds. New FW trickles down from the III, so it can be delayed for the FM family. I bought a v1 FM3 and I could max it pretty easily with more than just verb and one other. But the new turbo should have helped that. You could still totally get by with the original fm3 if you’re just doing dryer guitar stuff like I’ve heard of yours. I’ve yet to do any reamping, but I do everything analog… You wanna hear any specific amps? John, which unit do you have the rack unit or one of the floor units? Do you use the digital output? - it appears to be 48Khz which is good as that's the sample rate I work at. Do you use use additional FX pedals or just the built in FX and DAW FX? I think broadly we probably have similar needs in terms of tracking and mixing guitars. Thanks tht I have the MkI AxeFX III...and yes, it's spdif (I'm 98% sure) or I think you can use it as a USB audio interface too...I've never used either - just use analog outputs. I had a bunch of pedals but sold them all. I'm not a pedal smart guy, but the drives for the most part are pretty killer (Chandler Tube, Klon, Morning Glory, Octavia, Fuzz Face, Zen Drive, Suhr, Nobles...) all sound spot on to me. Then the effects are just killer. So - no - sold all my pedals. But others might prefer pedals in front or the effects loop. I used a UAD Golden and Mobius in the FX Loop and it sounded great. I do think the Leslie is meh in the Axe. Plates aren't as good to me in this FW - but it's just an EQ thing. And there's not a single parameter in science that you can't tweak on this stuff. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 18, 2024 11:47:35 GMT -6
John, which unit do you have the rack unit or one of the floor units? Do you use the digital output? - it appears to be 48Khz which is good as that's the sample rate I work at. Do you use use additional FX pedals or just the built in FX and DAW FX? I think broadly we probably have similar needs in terms of tracking and mixing guitars. Thanks tht I have the MkI AxeFX III...and yes, it's spdif (I'm 98% sure) or I think you can use it as a USB audio interface too...I've never used either - just use analog outputs. I had a bunch of pedals but sold them all. I'm not a pedal smart guy, but the drives for the most part are pretty killer (Chandler Tube, Klon, Morning Glory, Octavia, Fuzz Face, Zen Drive, Suhr, Nobles...) all sound spot on to me. Then the effects are just killer. So - no - sold all my pedals. But others might prefer pedals in front or the effects loop. I used a UAD Golden and Mobius in the FX Loop and it sounded great. I do think the Leslie is meh in the Axe. Plates aren't as good to me in this FW - but it's just an EQ thing. And there's not a single parameter in science that you can't tweak on this stuff. Thanks John, great info - you can't beat actual real world user feedback. it does sound like an incredibly versatile unit and ideal for a studio setting. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2024 12:52:19 GMT -6
I have the MkI AxeFX III...and yes, it's spdif (I'm 98% sure) or I think you can use it as a USB audio interface too...I've never used either - just use analog outputs. I had a bunch of pedals but sold them all. I'm not a pedal smart guy, but the drives for the most part are pretty killer (Chandler Tube, Klon, Morning Glory, Octavia, Fuzz Face, Zen Drive, Suhr, Nobles...) all sound spot on to me. Then the effects are just killer. So - no - sold all my pedals. But others might prefer pedals in front or the effects loop. I used a UAD Golden and Mobius in the FX Loop and it sounded great. I do think the Leslie is meh in the Axe. Plates aren't as good to me in this FW - but it's just an EQ thing. And there's not a single parameter in science that you can't tweak on this stuff. Thanks John, great info - you can't beat actual real world user feedback. it does sound like an incredibly versatile unit and ideal for a studio setting. You hear the Vibroverb clip I posted earlier? I thought it just sounded killer. |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Jun 18, 2024 14:05:00 GMT -6
So here's the thing I wanna ask you guys...
I still have about 60 amps here at my joint, and I'm running, 2 x Rivera Rock Crushers for loading, and or lowering the outputs of the amps down a bit, and I also have 2 x custom made ISO boxes that are my main speaker cabs. All good.
Visiting players, pick an amp, get their sounds in a few minutes at most, and we're ready to.
But that said, I'm considering purchasing 2 x Modelers for the guitarists that come here to record, but I am wondering if the Fractal stuff will be way beyond a visiting player to comprehend?
Not sure if they would be able to dial in a sound quick enough, without freaking out?
And the start of a recording session isn't really the time to start teaching the unit to a guitarist?
I also think the almost limitless choices, might not be a good thing in this scenario?
Purchasing two of the Fractals is a big deal, I'm wondering if this makes any sense in my studio?
I'm thinking something like the UA Pedals,(Iridium / Simplifier) might make more sense, since they might be a bit more familiar to the musicians kinda what they already know?
So I guess, I'm asking, do any of you have a Fractal setup for visiting players to use, and set up on their own, without you doing all the tweaking and setting of the sounds?
Can they get around it by themselves?
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Post by ragan on Jun 18, 2024 14:29:01 GMT -6
I’m not an AxeFX user, but I think your instinct is right. Menu diving on a foreign, complex piece of gear seems like a good way to kill the vibe. I would think something like the Iridium (‘here’s Marshall, here’s Fender, here’s Vox…want any pedals in front of it?’) would be good in that scenario.
Obvs owning something like the AxeFX would be a totally different thing, as you’d get fluent in it and it would become second nature.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2024 14:29:48 GMT -6
One minute...this is infinitely quicker than other modelers for me...and I don't have to bend over to twist the knobs. 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by Shadowk on Jun 18, 2024 15:22:55 GMT -6
I’m a die hard real amp guy. But I live my Axe Fx jut as much as my real amps. If I were to find a “fault” with the af3 it would be that’s it’s almost too good, or too smooth…the opposite of harsh. Totally agree. I think donr said this once and I thought it was a good description. The Axe FX sounds like the e most pristine versions of these amps - or something like that. Some styles absolutely benefit from that, I had an axe fx 2 but ended up selling it. Maybe should have given it more time.. I mean my amps sound cracking on lower volumes, barely louder than a 3 way monitor whilst mixing. That being said the marshall I have needs a noise gate, it’s nice to have effects dialled into a patch, a smorgasbord of variety isn’t a bad thing and again the more shiny polished version of the amp can be a pro on occasion. Also no toobs to replace.. I’m not a patch guru though, I don’t find it pleasing to mess around for ages attaining incremental gains that some times lead to worse outcomes. I have enough of that whilst mixing so I have considered tonex but some of the axe sounds are pretty damn cool. I might research preset packs.. Other thing is price I guess, maybe at some point I’ll give it another go. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 18, 2024 15:34:37 GMT -6
Totally agree. I think donr said this once and I thought it was a good description. The Axe FX sounds like the e most pristine versions of these amps - or something like that. Some styles absolutely benefit from that, I had an axe fx 2 but ended up selling it. Maybe should have given it more time.. I mean my amps sound cracking on lower volumes, barely louder than a 3 way monitor whilst mixing. That being said the marshall I have needs a noise gate, it’s nice to have effects dialled into a patch, a smorgasbord of variety isn’t a bad thing and again the more shiny polished version of the amp can be a pro on occasion. Also no toobs to replace.. I’m not a patch guru though, I don’t find it pleasing to mess around for ages attaining incremental gains that some times lead to worse outcomes. I have enough of that whilst mixing so I have considered tonex but some of the axe sounds are pretty damn cool. I might research preset packs.. Other thing is price I guess, maybe at some point I’ll give it another go. Do you mic your cab in the same room as your gear and wear headphones when tracking guitar? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2024 15:40:59 GMT -6
Again - I don’t think anyone is saying the axe is better than the real thing. I’d much rather have a 64 Vibtoverb, 61 AC-30, 54 Delixe Tweed…
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Post by Shadowk on Jun 18, 2024 15:43:14 GMT -6
thehightenorI do but not out of necessity anymore. My old house had serious limitations as a studio so I had to find an amp that would sound half decent in a small room and not loud enough to annoy my neighbours. Now I have a dedicated tracking room but it’s not necessary for these specific amps and custom cabs. Still for even sheet lazyness or should I say expanded productivity I’d consider an amp modeller or profiler.
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Post by Shadowk on Jun 18, 2024 15:50:44 GMT -6
Again - I don’t think anyone is saying the axe is better than the real thing. I’d much rather have a 64 Vibtoverb, 61 AC-30, 54 Delixe Tweed… Depends on the song really, if it hits harder with a cleaner representation and that does the song justice cool. It doesn’t always need to be so polar opposite. I hate to quote that cliche but if it works, it works. Nothings perfect though and I might get another axe or a tonex, might even decide not to bother with either. I need to get them all in a room.. |
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Post by itzprime on Jun 18, 2024 15:52:39 GMT -6
So here's the thing I wanna ask you guys... I still have about 60 amps here at my joint, and I'm running, 2 x Rivera Rock Crushers for loading, and or lowering the outputs of the amps down a bit, and I also have 2 x custom made ISO boxes that are my main speaker cabs. All good. Visiting players, pick an amp, get their sounds in a few minutes at most, and we're ready to. But that said, I'm considering purchasing 2 x Modelers for the guitarists that come here to record, but I am wondering if the Fractal stuff will be way beyond a visiting player to comprehend? Not sure if they would be able to dial in a sound quick enough, without freaking out? And the start of a recording session isn't really the time to start teaching the unit to a guitarist? I also think the almost limitless choices, might not be a good thing in this scenario? Purchasing two of the Fractals is a big deal, I'm wondering if this makes any sense in my studio? I'm thinking something like the UA Pedals,(Iridium / Simplifier) might make more sense, since they might be a bit more familiar to the musicians kinda what they already know? So I guess, I'm asking, do any of you have a Fractal setup for visiting players to use, and set up on their own, without you doing all the tweaking and setting of the sounds? Can they get around it by themselves? How about getting a Tonex and the model box and model your own gear + speaker cabs? |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Jun 18, 2024 17:06:43 GMT -6
Not familiar with that, will have to check it out?
Thanks~!
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Post by nobtwiddler on Jun 18, 2024 17:14:29 GMT -6
"One minute...this is infinitely quicker than other modelers for me...and I don't have to bend over to twist the knobs. 🤷🏻♂️"
John, but that's exactly my question, FOR YOU~!
What about cats coming in to my joint to play, and NO, they are not all studio guys. My new place here is set up for new and aspiring artists, so I doubt many of them will have ever have had any experience with these devices?
I'm sure, I can get comfortable with the gear, as I did with everything in my place, but like I said, I DON'T wanna be the guy showing them what to do, or how to set the thing up.
The more immediate the session, the better, I was just trying to figure out how to eliminate more leakage, on certain sessions.
Normally when a guitarist see all the usually suspects, they plug in, tweak a few knobs and get going. No big deal. It's all familiar!
My fear is this stuff is too complicated for the everyday Joe to handle.
Although I do love the concept, and if were just for me, like it is at your place, then it's literally a no brainer!
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