ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086 
|
Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2024 18:25:29 GMT -6
Since my left Amphion tweeter blew, I decided to order the tweeter and also get the Barefoot 03’s to test out in the meantime. 1 hour in, and I like the Amphions a lot better. These can get a little crunchy and have somewhat of a boxiness to them. IMO. So they’re going back and I’ll just have to wait till I figure out how to install this tweeter. Is there any like calibration or anything I need to know about? There is a video on YouTube for changing the tweeter in the bigger Amphions but I imagine it’s the same, unbolt and pull the passive radiator from behind, a couple of screws and connectors for the tweeter. I have to say that the magnet on the tweeter is tiny! |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2024 18:29:42 GMT -6
Since my left Amphion tweeter blew, I decided to order the tweeter and also get the Barefoot 03’s to test out in the meantime. 1 hour in, and I like the Amphions a lot better. These can get a little crunchy and have somewhat of a boxiness to them. IMO. So they’re going back and I’ll just have to wait till I figure out how to install this tweeter. Is there any like calibration or anything I need to know about? While Barefoot’s voicing isn’t to my taste, Thomas is a very talented designer who I have utmost respect, I’m disappointed but yet not surprised. These are the definition of a price point design, aimed at a whole in the market. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2024 18:33:08 GMT -6
Since my left Amphion tweeter blew, I decided to order the tweeter and also get the Barefoot 03’s to test out in the meantime. 1 hour in, and I like the Amphions a lot better. These can get a little crunchy and have somewhat of a boxiness to them. IMO. So they’re going back and I’ll just have to wait till I figure out how to install this tweeter. Is there any like calibration or anything I need to know about? There is a video on YouTube for changing the tweeter in the bigger Amphions but I imagine it’s the same, unbolt and pull the passive radiator from behind, a couple of screws and connectors for the tweeter. I have to say that the magnet on the tweeter is tiny! Yeah I saw one with One18s and that’s what I have. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2024 18:35:23 GMT -6
Since my left Amphion tweeter blew, I decided to order the tweeter and also get the Barefoot 03’s to test out in the meantime. 1 hour in, and I like the Amphions a lot better. These can get a little crunchy and have somewhat of a boxiness to them. IMO. So they’re going back and I’ll just have to wait till I figure out how to install this tweeter. Is there any like calibration or anything I need to know about? While Barefoot’s voicing isn’t to my taste, Thomas is a very talented designer who I have utmost respect, I’m disappointed but yet not surprised. These are the definition of a price point design, aimed at a whole in the market. Yeah…the target market for these might be the bedroom rapper to go along with his c800 and Avalon 737… |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2024 18:44:55 GMT -6
There is a video on YouTube for changing the tweeter in the bigger Amphions but I imagine it’s the same, unbolt and pull the passive radiator from behind, a couple of screws and connectors for the tweeter. I have to say that the magnet on the tweeter is tiny! Yeah I saw one with One18s and that’s what I have. Just be careful when undoing the passive taking care not to put any holes in it, if there is any gunk or putty on the back of the passive spread it evenly. The tweeter itself is fairly fragile be mindful of the dome when handling, tighten the screws but don’t over tighten, I always spray some Caig contact enhancer on the connectors. Over the years I have bent or damaged the connectors on soooo many tweeters so be careful. I also try to keep at least one spare tweeter or diaphragm around. If there is another pair of passive speakers around try them on the amp to see if there are any problems with the amp that caused the tweeter to give it up. ( I keep a pair of little KLH’s I paid $20 for this exact reason). |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 3, 2024 18:48:16 GMT -6
It takes a little while to burn in. Just play something at a low level for24-48 hours and you should be good to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2024 20:09:42 GMT -6
Boyz...I need to take back some of my comments. I don't have the Amphions to compare at the moment, of course...but once I got the sub added, it really changed the equation. Honestly, I could say that about the Amphions too. IMO, neither are nearly as impressive without freeing up that headroom...Guess you could call it a 4-way...
Anyway - there's no hint of crunch when the bottom end load is taken off of them. The sub is just up enough to provide thump and gorilla. Then I shot the room with the Trinnov...and it's fantastic sounding. I think Svart had mentioned the small listening position - and it's smaller than the Amphions for sure. But honestly that doesn't really bother me. Here's what I'm thinking as far as how these compare memory wise - They feel cleaner, the center image is definitely stronger...like creepy. Like Gregory Porter is singing to me. (Gayest thing I've said today.)
OK - took a break to change some sub things and measure distances and all that jazz. Holy shit was I wrong. These are just fantastic once the bottom is handled by something else. Obviously, I need to do some mixes on it...that'll be the test - how it translates.
Can't wait to go back and forth with the Amphions
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2024 20:10:00 GMT -6
While Barefoot’s voicing isn’t to my taste, Thomas is a very talented designer who I have utmost respect, I’m disappointed but yet not surprised. These are the definition of a price point design, aimed at a whole in the market. Yeah…the target market for these might be the bedroom rapper to go along with his c800 and Avalon 737… What a dick  |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2024 20:26:55 GMT -6
Boyz...I need to take back some of my comments. I don't have the Amphions to compare at the moment, of course...but once I got the sub added, it really changed the equation. Honestly, I could say that about the Amphions too. IMO, neither are nearly as impressive without freeing up that headroom...Guess you could call it a 4-way... Anyway - there's no hint of crunch when the bottom end load is taken off of them. The sub is just up enough to provide thump and gorilla. Then I shot the room with the Trinnov...and it's fantastic sounding. I think Svart had mentioned the small listening position - and it's smaller than the Amphions for sure. But honestly that doesn't really bother me. Here's what I'm thinking as far as how these compare memory wise - They feel cleaner, the center image is definitely stronger...like creepy. Like Gregory Porter is singing to me. (Gayest thing I've said today.) OK - took a break to change some sub things and measure distances and all that jazz. Holy shit was I wrong. These are just fantastic once the bottom is handled by something else. Obviously, I need to do some mixes on it...that'll be the test - how it translates. Can't wait to go back and forth with the Amphions Subs can do that for a Speaker and I’m glad to hear that you are not disappointed, but man I hate it when you have to have the sub! It’s like buying a Vette and finding out, oh you need that Blueprint crate motor! |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2024 20:39:28 GMT -6
Yeah I was trying to get it out of the chain (actually was gonna keep it because they're hard to find)...
This is really interesting. A mix I was really pretty happy with Friday sounds a lot different on these. I mean - it's passable, but I hear a lot of reverb that I'm not used to hearing, vocal was hot as hell...and those are the TWO MAIN ISSUES I have. Sometimes I swear I'll print something and then realize there's too much verb. And vocal level is the one thing I'll occasionally get asked to tweak...Really looking forward to going in and "fixing" those things to see how the two mixes translate.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2024 20:42:45 GMT -6
One of the Trinnov guys told me to switch the trinnov to Internal clock when you take measurements...and I realized I had never set it back to external AES for clocking. (I never noticed any weirdness, though.) So I switched it back while a tune was playing...and holy crap...the AES is brighter - or it might be jitter or whatever I'm hearing - like distortion up top that makes it sound bright..? So I changed some things around and not going WC into the Trinnov to slave off of the Hilo. And that fixed it...so check your aes connections, boys.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2024 20:52:22 GMT -6
Yeah I was trying to get it out of the chain (actually was gonna keep it because they're hard to find)... This is really interesting. A mix I was really pretty happy with Friday sounds a lot different on these. I mean - it's passable, but I hear a lot of reverb that I'm not used to hearing, vocal was hot as hell...and those are the TWO MAIN ISSUES I have. Sometimes I swear I'll print something and then realize there's too much verb. And vocal level is the one thing I'll occasionally get asked to tweak...Really looking forward to going in and "fixing" those things to see how the two mixes translate. This is where a second dissimilar set of monitors earn there keep, there is no perfect speaker so if you have 2 sets that get different things right your mixes tend to stand up better. The issue is nobody makes a monitor controller that’s designed around using to very different pairs with different x over and gain settings for the sub, and of course the Trinnov really isn’t designed to switch back and forth. |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jun 4, 2024 6:07:25 GMT -6
Yeah I was trying to get it out of the chain (actually was gonna keep it because they're hard to find)... This is really interesting. A mix I was really pretty happy with Friday sounds a lot different on these. I mean - it's passable, but I hear a lot of reverb that I'm not used to hearing, vocal was hot as hell...and those are the TWO MAIN ISSUES I have. Sometimes I swear I'll print something and then realize there's too much verb. And vocal level is the one thing I'll occasionally get asked to tweak...Really looking forward to going in and "fixing" those things to see how the two mixes translate. That switch to 3 ways from 2 ways can hit you pretty hard when you finally hear it.. |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 4, 2024 6:31:46 GMT -6
And the Amphion and barefoot companies, I think, have very different sonic monitor philosophies: understated(natural) vs knock your socks off !  |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2024 8:32:51 GMT -6
Yeah I was trying to get it out of the chain (actually was gonna keep it because they're hard to find)... This is really interesting. A mix I was really pretty happy with Friday sounds a lot different on these. I mean - it's passable, but I hear a lot of reverb that I'm not used to hearing, vocal was hot as hell...and those are the TWO MAIN ISSUES I have. Sometimes I swear I'll print something and then realize there's too much verb. And vocal level is the one thing I'll occasionally get asked to tweak...Really looking forward to going in and "fixing" those things to see how the two mixes translate. This is where a second dissimilar set of monitors earn there keep, there is no perfect speaker so if you have 2 sets that get different things right your mixes tend to stand up better. The issue is nobody makes a monitor controller that’s designed around using to very different pairs with different x over and gain settings for the sub, and of course the Trinnov really isn’t designed to switch back and forth. Yeah I wish I had room for a second pair, but there’s just not with the acoustic treatment I have. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2024 8:33:39 GMT -6
Yeah I was trying to get it out of the chain (actually was gonna keep it because they're hard to find)... This is really interesting. A mix I was really pretty happy with Friday sounds a lot different on these. I mean - it's passable, but I hear a lot of reverb that I'm not used to hearing, vocal was hot as hell...and those are the TWO MAIN ISSUES I have. Sometimes I swear I'll print something and then realize there's too much verb. And vocal level is the one thing I'll occasionally get asked to tweak...Really looking forward to going in and "fixing" those things to see how the two mixes translate. That switch to 3 ways from 2 ways can hit you pretty hard when you finally hear it.. Is that a common thing when people are switching from 2 ways to 3 ways? Did you hear that when you did? |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 4, 2024 8:45:19 GMT -6
Well, you wouldn’t be used to the focussed mid range of the 3 way?
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jun 4, 2024 13:02:13 GMT -6
That switch to 3 ways from 2 ways can hit you pretty hard when you finally hear it.. Is that a common thing when people are switching from 2 ways to 3 ways? Did you hear that when you did? Oh yeah, real common. Getting the crossover point out of the midrange and adding a driver just makes things so much more clear. I was doing OK mixes on 2 ways before but that change was almost hard to understand that such a small difference in presentation can make huge changes in your mixes. Namely the vocals and reverb seem to sit very differently once you have a midrange driver. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 4, 2024 16:04:04 GMT -6
Is that a common thing when people are switching from 2 ways to 3 ways? Did you hear that when you did? Oh yeah, real common. Getting the crossover point out of the midrange and adding a driver just makes things so much more clear. I was doing OK mixes on 2 ways before but that change was almost hard to understand that such a small difference in presentation can make huge changes in your mixes. Namely the vocals and reverb seem to sit very differently once you have a midrange driver. If that is the approach the designer has taken. Another approach but less common is to simply take a 2 way and throw it in a cabinet with a compact sub. An example of this was the original prototype of the Quested VS3110, originally it was literally going to be the s7 and S series sub in a single cabinet. Problem was it was just too expensive to build. Luckily Quested figured out they could cross the 10in high enough to use the old Vifa mid. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2024 19:10:13 GMT -6
After all that…
The mix that sounded pretty phenomenal in my studio sounded like shit in the car…I’m actually kind of surprised…I’m sure I could learn them, but the mix levels were…not right in the car…I haven’t had issues with that on the Amphions. Vocals were too low and I made a point of trying to get them right…Bass boomy…just not happy with that at all. Maybe it was just a day when I mixed too long and lost perspective. But like I said - I don’t have that issue with the Amphions…
There are things I really like about them, but I’m trying to figure out whether to just cut bait or potentially waste time mixing on them more.
Let me say - they sound pretty spectacular with the sub and going through the Trinnov. The bottom/low mids are tighter with the Barefoots and I’d venture to say - by my memory (I’ll be able to have them side by side hopefully here by the end of the weekend.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2024 20:46:13 GMT -6
Well shit. Left side of my amp is dead. Along with my tweeter. I opened the speaker up and nothing looks fried…tweeter looks normal. But is GOT to be the tweeter too because it works without the tweeter if you connect it to the other side. 2024 is turning into the year all my shit breaks.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Jun 4, 2024 21:41:39 GMT -6
Well shit. Left side of my amp is dead. Along with my tweeter. I opened the speaker up and nothing looks fried…tweeter looks normal. But is GOT to be the tweeter too because it works without the tweeter if you connect it to the other side. 2024 is turning into the year all my shit breaks. Well shit! Ok check all the wires in the speaker for any obvious signs of shorts or missing insulation, pay particular attention to the wires from the crossover PCB to the tweeter, then look at the x over for any obvious burns. |
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Jun 5, 2024 3:43:50 GMT -6
I’m sure Amphion is great to work on and all, but I’m always hearing stories about reliability issues. I’ve had a pair of JBL 5’s mki’s for 10 or so years and they’ve worked every day, even with the abuse of being in a classroom. Maybe you should just get some JBL’s! The 8’s might actually work great for you! And they’re cheap!
|
|
|
|
Post by FM77 on Jun 5, 2024 5:13:08 GMT -6
After all that… The mix that sounded pretty phenomenal in my studio sounded like shit in the car…I’m actually kind of surprised…I’m sure I could learn them, but the mix levels were…not right in the car…I haven’t had issues with that on the Amphions. Vocals were too low and I made a point of trying to get them right…Bass boomy…just not happy with that at all. Maybe it was just a day when I mixed too long and lost perspective. But like I said - I don’t have that issue with the Amphions… There are things I really like about them, but I’m trying to figure out whether to just cut bait or potentially waste time mixing on them more. Let me say - they sound pretty spectacular with the sub and going through the Trinnov. The bottom/low mids are tighter with the Barefoots and I’d venture to say - by my memory (I’ll be able to have them side by side hopefully here by the end of the weekend. Watching this thread unfold, respectfully, I was genuinely waiting for this. With monitors, honeymoon responses are rarely worth much consideration.
Lower priced monitors, sub or not, tend to be hyped on purpose. Perhaps harder discern in today's hyped audio landscape where the ear reaches for a certain 'over the topness'? So many bright or over-hyped plugins and hyped references might make it easier to feel insta-good about them etc. Honestly I don't know. I do know that with monitors as with so many other things, true quality costs. Flat and natural costs money to design, implement and execute. There just isn't any way around it.
It doesn't mean we are better at mixing with flat and natural monitors. And then of course, mix on these for a few months and you'll tame the problem areas with experience and your mixes will start to translate. But it still doesn't make them less hyped.
I hope you get the Amphions sorted John.
|
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 5, 2024 6:59:32 GMT -6
The 03 cost $2000 usd, ya I know there are more expensive speakers, but don’t think of these as low cost ?
I heard one pair of bf I think 2’s, can’t say they did much for me, thought the bass a little overdone and they didn’t sound very clear to me.
If I could demo the 03 properly, I’d do so, but so far, no opportunity.
Enjoy your Amphion John, you seem well calibrated to them and confident about your mix decisions and quality: that’s like money in the bank, as you won’t waste time.
|
|
