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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 6, 2024 22:13:58 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure a Carbon would work fine for me. Here’s a question, though…I think someone said yes earlier, but just wanted to confirm. Does anything with digilink like the Aurora or Burl B16 et al - would they all work with pro tools ultimate and do the correct delay comp for hardware? Or is that only with Carbon or an hdx card? I thought the Digilink protocol was how you hooked up your converters to the HDX card? So with Aurora or Burl with Digilink you wouldn't need an Avid box, you'd just go from Aurora/Burl straight to the HDX card? But maybe I'm totally mixed up... That’s correct |
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 6, 2024 22:18:16 GMT -6
eBay has an avid I/o 16x16 for like $600 Found an HDX card on Reverb for $1700 Pt ultimate for a year is $600 Just need to figure out a chassis for the HDX card but that’s just below $3k for all of that. I mean… not that bad for a system that will do everything you want and keep you in PT land. Frustrations gone. I’m not saying 3k is nothing, because it’s not. But I’d totally take that system over the flavor of the month/year compressor, personally. But aren’t those avid converters supposed to be bad? uh...no? |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 6, 2024 22:22:56 GMT -6
eBay has an avid I/o 16x16 for like $600 Found an HDX card on Reverb for $1700 Pt ultimate for a year is $600 Just need to figure out a chassis for the HDX card but that’s just below $3k for all of that. I mean… not that bad for a system that will do everything you want and keep you in PT land. Frustrations gone. I’m not saying 3k is nothing, because it’s not. But I’d totally take that system over the flavor of the month/year compressor, personally. Couple of questions on this, Jeremy (and/or seawell or others): 1. Jeremy, you said PT Ultimate for a year is $600. What about these so-called "perpetual licenses," or whatever they're called? Is that what $600 gets you? Or is that $600 a yearly amount you have to ante up? Or is it an "updates included for a year" kind of situation? 2. The Avid I/O 16x16 you mentioned: is that an HD192? Or something else? Does it also work with CoreAudio on a Mac (as in, other applications like other DAWs, editors, NLEs, etc.)? I'm guessing there are AES digital connections if you want to use other converters? 3. And the big question for me with all of the above: how long are these Avid hardware devices and DSP cards supported with new drivers and such? How often is PT actually updated? I usually run my studio machine at about one year / one OS behind whatever OS Apple is currently pushing. My understanding is that a lot of PT guys don't update their systems that often, which I understand - if that's all you're doing with your system, no need to keep updating it if it works. But I update at that pace because of other software I need to use, especially video editing software, where major updates are coming fast and furious with increasing AI tools for masking and stuff. I'm sure I have other questions, but those are 3 big ones that have hung me up on PT for several years now. I know they probably sound like really basic questions, but I don't think most PT guys I've talked to appreciate how foreign the PT world is to literally everyone else using a different DAW. Literally all of those other DAWs are more similar to each other than any of them are to PT (with the possible exception of Luna now). And seriously, thanks to all you PT guys in this thread helping clear up some of the confusion! The $600 is the yearly fee to use the license. You’ve gotta anti up that amount every year to use the software and to get updates. The perpetual license costs more but it’s yours forever. I think you get a year of support but after that you’re on your own. Use it until your computer doesn’t support it anymore. The HD I/O is the one newer generation of the 192 box. You can configure them with analog or digital cards 8 channels at a time for inputs and outputs. All the boxes have AES and word clock in and out. They sound good. They’ve also been discontinued so the only way to get them is picking them up used. You can get them for a crazy good price. Can I hear a difference between the avid box and a Lavry Gold? Yeah of course. Would it stop anybody from making killer records? No. Can’t speak to the core audio driver thing. I straight up don’t even know what any of that stuff means if you can believe it. Hope that clears up a few things for you! |
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 6, 2024 22:23:45 GMT -6
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 6, 2024 22:32:03 GMT -6
Those are to-buy, though - not a true demo that can be automatically returned. My Sweetwater dude fights like crazy to not let me return anything. I stopped buying from them as a result. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 6, 2024 22:40:20 GMT -6
Couple of questions on this, Jeremy (and/or seawell or others): 1. Jeremy, you said PT Ultimate for a year is $600. What about these so-called "perpetual licenses," or whatever they're called? Is that what $600 gets you? Or is that $600 a yearly amount you have to ante up? Or is it an "updates included for a year" kind of situation? 2. The Avid I/O 16x16 you mentioned: is that an HD192? Or something else? Does it also work with CoreAudio on a Mac (as in, other applications like other DAWs, editors, NLEs, etc.)? I'm guessing there are AES digital connections if you want to use other converters? 3. And the big question for me with all of the above: how long are these Avid hardware devices and DSP cards supported with new drivers and such? How often is PT actually updated? I usually run my studio machine at about one year / one OS behind whatever OS Apple is currently pushing. My understanding is that a lot of PT guys don't update their systems that often, which I understand - if that's all you're doing with your system, no need to keep updating it if it works. But I update at that pace because of other software I need to use, especially video editing software, where major updates are coming fast and furious with increasing AI tools for masking and stuff. I'm sure I have other questions, but those are 3 big ones that have hung me up on PT for several years now. I know they probably sound like really basic questions, but I don't think most PT guys I've talked to appreciate how foreign the PT world is to literally everyone else using a different DAW. Literally all of those other DAWs are more similar to each other than any of them are to PT (with the possible exception of Luna now). And seriously, thanks to all you PT guys in this thread helping clear up some of the confusion! The $600 is the yearly fee to use the license. You’ve gotta anti up that amount every year to use the software and to get updates. The perpetual license costs more but it’s yours forever. I think you get a year of support but after that you’re on your own. Use it until your computer doesn’t support it anymore. OK, that's what I was afraid of. And I imagine even with the perpetual license, with Apple updating their OS so frequently, PT breaks so you have to pay up for the update (if you need to update the OS as often as I do). The HD I/O is the one newer generation of the 192 box. You can configure them with analog or digital cards 8 channels at a time for inputs and outputs. All the boxes have AES and word clock in and out. They sound good. They’ve also been discontinued so the only way to get them is picking them up used. You can get them for a crazy good price. Can I hear a difference between the avid box and a Lavry Gold? Yeah of course. Would it stop anybody from making killer records? No. Cool, this is really helpful - so the ones that have the "192" on the left edge of the front faceplate are 1 gen older than the ones that just say "Avid" in that spot? Is that right? Can’t speak to the core audio driver thing. I straight up don’t even know what any of that stuff means if you can believe it. Ha! No, I believe it - no need for you to know anything about it if it doesn't affect your work. Hope that clears up a few things for you! It really does - thanks so much, Jeremy! |
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Post by seawell on Mar 6, 2024 22:53:01 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure a Carbon would work fine for me. Here’s a question, though…I think someone said yes earlier, but just wanted to confirm. Does anything with digilink like the Aurora or Burl B16 et al - would they all work with pro tools ultimate and do the correct delay comp for hardware? Or is that only with Carbon or an hdx card? I personally know the Burl and the Apogee work just like an avid box. Plug it in and the PT I/o things it’s an avid box. Can’t speak to the other companies as I’ve not used them. I can vouch for Lynx working as well. Antelope does not unfortunately. |
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Post by subspace on Mar 6, 2024 22:54:03 GMT -6
To be clear, there are only two ways to HDX, the card or a Carbon. Aurora, Apogee, etc offer Digilnk connector cards for their outboard converters, but they are simply that, outboard converters that need connection to an HDX card running the DSP.
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Post by seawell on Mar 6, 2024 23:06:48 GMT -6
I hadn't really paid attention to Carbon until now but going that route would be all you'd need since the HDX card is built it. Would also take out any concern about buying some of the older converters we've recommended. It also comes with a Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual license so it would be a turn key system that price. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 7, 2024 2:36:13 GMT -6
Couple of questions on this, Jeremy (and/or seawell or others): 1. Jeremy, you said PT Ultimate for a year is $600. What about these so-called "perpetual licenses," or whatever they're called? Is that what $600 gets you? Or is that $600 a yearly amount you have to ante up? Or is it an "updates included for a year" kind of situation? 2. The Avid I/O 16x16 you mentioned: is that an HD192? Or something else? Does it also work with CoreAudio on a Mac (as in, other applications like other DAWs, editors, NLEs, etc.)? I'm guessing there are AES digital connections if you want to use other converters? 3. And the big question for me with all of the above: how long are these Avid hardware devices and DSP cards supported with new drivers and such? How often is PT actually updated? I usually run my studio machine at about one year / one OS behind whatever OS Apple is currently pushing. My understanding is that a lot of PT guys don't update their systems that often, which I understand - if that's all you're doing with your system, no need to keep updating it if it works. But I update at that pace because of other software I need to use, especially video editing software, where major updates are coming fast and furious with increasing AI tools for masking and stuff. I'm sure I have other questions, but those are 3 big ones that have hung me up on PT for several years now. I know they probably sound like really basic questions, but I don't think most PT guys I've talked to appreciate how foreign the PT world is to literally everyone else using a different DAW. Literally all of those other DAWs are more similar to each other than any of them are to PT (with the possible exception of Luna now). And seriously, thanks to all you PT guys in this thread helping clear up some of the confusion! The $600 is the yearly fee to use the license. You’ve gotta anti up that amount every year to use the software and to get updates. The perpetual license costs more but it’s yours forever. I think you get a year of support but after that you’re on your own. Use it until your computer doesn’t support it anymore. The HD I/O is the one newer generation of the 192 box. You can configure them with analog or digital cards 8 channels at a time for inputs and outputs. All the boxes have AES and word clock in and out. They sound good. They’ve also been discontinued so the only way to get them is picking them up used. You can get them for a crazy good price. Can I hear a difference between the avid box and a Lavry Gold? Yeah of course. Would it stop anybody from making killer records? No. Can’t speak to the core audio driver thing. I straight up don’t even know what any of that stuff means if you can believe it. Hope that clears up a few things for you! I'm not paying 600 a year for updates, it's only 400. With my perpetual license. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 7, 2024 2:37:18 GMT -6
I hadn't really paid attention to Carbon until now but going that route would be all you'd need since the HDX card is built it. Would also take out any concern about buying some of the older converters we've recommended. It also comes with a Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual license so it would be a turn key system that price. I/O limited though pretty substantially compared to a standard HDX setup. But for those that don't need the I/O it's not bad at all. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 7, 2024 6:51:14 GMT -6
I originally had the 192's, they weren't great. Personally I'd start with Omni and work up chronologically from there on.. I’m pretty sure a Carbon would work fine for me. Here’s a question, though…I think someone said yes earlier, but just wanted to confirm. Does anything with digilink like the Aurora or Burl B16 et al - would they all work with pro tools ultimate and do the correct delay comp for hardware? Or is that only with Carbon or an hdx card? Yeah, it just tricks Pro Tools into thinking it has an Avid interface latency specs. I know a few people with an Aurora or Symphony and it works fine, doesn't Chris Lord Alge use Focusrite Rednet with HDX? They've got a fair bit of HW. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 7, 2024 7:03:29 GMT -6
I hadn't really paid attention to Carbon until now but going that route would be all you'd need since the HDX card is built it. Would also take out any concern about buying some of the older converters we've recommended. It also comes with a Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual license so it would be a turn key system that price. I/O limited though pretty substantially compared to a standard HDX setup. But for those that don't need the I/O it's not bad at all. The answer to that as always with Avid is buy more, you can have three Carbon's hooked up over ethernet giving you 24 analog I/O and 16 channels of ADAT. 40 I/O is generally enough to bankrupt most.. |
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Post by shakermaker on Mar 7, 2024 7:10:52 GMT -6
move to studio one. Pipeline is the best. studio one rocks
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 7, 2024 7:28:28 GMT -6
move to studio one. Pipeline is the best. studio one rocks I'd rather punch myself in the nut (singular, it's not as bad as two), YMMV though.. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 7, 2024 8:26:34 GMT -6
Nobody mentioned how damn sexy that Carbon looks in the rack! I talked to two of my clients and told them about my new interface and that we have to give it a spin and see how it works out. I sent them the link for the avid product video demonstration promo and they just couldn’t wait to get in my studio and record! It actually made them very excited to come in and lay down some new material. Btw, one of my female clients said, damn that’s sexy! I agreed, but I wasn’t referring to the Carbon😆
Pipeline worked good for me in Studio One 4 Professional. I have tested Studio One 6 using the Carbon interface and it works great. You don’t get the DSP, however I didn’t notice any latency when I was tracking drums on a project. It was solid. I haven’t had any issues yet and I’ve had my Carbon for at least a year now. I haven’t used Pipeline in version 6 yet, but I can imagine it works flawlessly due to the great experience I had with version 4.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 7, 2024 8:40:04 GMT -6
Nobody mentioned how damn sexy that Carbon looks in the rack! I talked to two of my clients and told them about my new interface and that we have to give it a spin and see how it works out. I sent them the link for the avid product video demonstration promo and they just couldn’t wait to get in my studio and record! It actually made them very excited to come in and lay down some new material. Btw, one of my female clients said, damn that’s sexy! I agreed, but I wasn’t referring to the Carbon😆 Pipeline worked good for me in Studio One 4 Professional. I have tested Studio One 6 using the Carbon interface and it works great. You don’t get the DSP, however I didn’t notice any latency when I was tracking drums on a project. It was solid. I haven’t had any issues yet and I’ve had my Carbon for almost a year now. I haven’t used Pipeline in version 6 yet, but I can imagine it works flawlessly due to the great experience I had with version 4. Pipeline works without a hitch every time. It also allows you to save presets and notes/snapshots of settings which is pretty convenient. So if I want to use my Distressor I just pull up the preset and it sets up the I/O path and the latency I saved. I ping anyway but it never changes, just paranoid I guess. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 7, 2024 8:44:10 GMT -6
A little off topic, but still in the Protools vein. Does anyone know if the older Apogee Symphony 64 Thunderbridge with the 16X converters with the Protools HD cards still work? And do you know if they work as flawlessly as the Lynx stuff that Seawell is still using with no issues? I was still wondering about this
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Post by Dan on Mar 7, 2024 9:08:00 GMT -6
move to studio one. Pipeline is the best. studio one rocks I'd rather punch myself in the nut (singular, it's not as bad as two), YMMV though.. id rather use zoom products and stock pro tools or reaper than touch anything Presonus again. Awful experience gainstaging it. The software feels illogical like Logic + Pro Tools + Reaper’s drag and drop. Oh and it’s buggy and they will introduce bugs version to version where Cubase will fix the bugs from the new version quickly and if something in a new version of Reaper is broken, it will get reverted quickly and then added back fixed. Justin and Schwa are good about that. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 7, 2024 9:14:36 GMT -6
A little off topic, but still in the Protools vein. Does anyone know if the older Apogee Symphony 64 Thunderbridge with the 16X converters with the Protools HD cards still work? And do you know if they work as flawlessly as the Lynx stuff that Seawell is still using with no issues? I was still wondering about this if the drivers still work, they will work. For apogee over HDX or dante, you’re pretty much bypassing the apogee drivers. The issue with older Apogee equipment is discontinued ICs and heat issues even with rack space. The focus on two channel a few years ago and then their recent switch to converters with low power consumption ICs solved that. The Quartet overheated and OG symphony multichannel converters would turn the fan on audibly. Heat is the enemy of electronics longevity. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 7, 2024 9:15:34 GMT -6
eBay has an avid I/o 16x16 for like $600 Found an HDX card on Reverb for $1700 Pt ultimate for a year is $600 Just need to figure out a chassis for the HDX card but that’s just below $3k for all of that. I mean… not that bad for a system that will do everything you want and keep you in PT land. Frustrations gone. I’m not saying 3k is nothing, because it’s not. But I’d totally take that system over the flavor of the month/year compressor, personally. But aren’t those avid converters supposed to be bad? They are not BAD. They are not quite as good as the HD I/o's though. I have mostly HD's and one 192. It's not night and day, but if it's your only AD/DA, I'd shoot for an HD I/o. 8-10 years more modern. re: perpetuals. I buy one for $400-ish every 2-3 years. Keep it updated for one year, and let it "lapse" for the next 1-2 years. Then rinse and repeat. I'd guess my average yearly cost for HDX is around $150 or so. Again, talk to the right people when you buy. My guy always takes care of me and my clients very well. AVID has a huge markup, but it doesn't have to cost a bloody fortune. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 7, 2024 9:16:54 GMT -6
I'd rather punch myself in the nut (singular, it's not as bad as two), YMMV though.. id rather use zoom products and stock pro tools or reaper than touch anything Presonus again. Awful experience gainstaging it. The software feels illogical like Logic + Pro Tools + Reaper’s drag and drop. Oh and it’s buggy and they will introduce bugs version to version where Cubase will fix the bugs from the new version quickly and if something in a new version of Reaper is broken, it will get reverted quickly and then added back fixed. Justin and Schwa are good about that. I had terrible bug issues with Studio One which is why I switched to Reaper for a time. But it's been rock solid with all the updates within the last year. Don't know if Fender gets the credit or what, but something changed over there and they now do fewer updates but WAY better stability on the updates. Presonus software is a totally different business unit than the hardware and is in a completely different realm in terms of quality. Their software division is based in Germany (seems like all the great software is?) and seems to be run by very smart people intent on dominating the DAW space someday. The hardware division is based in Baton Rouge and seems to be run by people intent on getting the lowest price points possible to sell the most units possible to entry level buyers. I know the Quantum was a bad experience and many others have verified that, but gain staging within the DAW itself is the picture of simplicity. It's actually part of why I left Illogic. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 7, 2024 9:17:32 GMT -6
But aren’t those avid converters supposed to be bad? I don’t honestly get into the cork sniffing converter thing. There isn’t anything wrong with the newest Hd I/o 16 x 16 box. You’d have no problem making things sound great with it. I don’t have an issue with most converters - but I thought k remembered people specifically saying those old HD units sounded bad. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 7, 2024 9:20:02 GMT -6
Those are to-buy, though - not a true demo that can be automatically returned. My Sweetwater dude fights like crazy to not let me return anything. I stopped buying from them as a result. That’s a shame, I thought since they are used anyway, it would be encouraged to send them out as demos to try. Maybe that’s too logical, what do I know… |
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 7, 2024 9:21:41 GMT -6
I don’t honestly get into the cork sniffing converter thing. There isn’t anything wrong with the newest Hd I/o 16 x 16 box. You’d have no problem making things sound great with it. I don’t have an issue with most converters - but I thought k remembered people specifically saying those old HD units sounded bad. Not if you get the Mutt Lange upgrade from BLA! Not sure what that costs though. Probably better just to go to the newer HD boxes? I’m confused when it comes to HD boxes, not sure what is the older from the newer? Is it the color? Didn’t Euphonix do the converters? Or was that the older boxes? Now I’m really confused. This was something I was going to nail down before upgrading into an HDX system. I like the idea of using my Dangerous Converts going out AES and running the Bricasti M7 on AES as well👍🏻 |
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