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Post by geoff738 on Jan 5, 2024 21:31:25 GMT -6
And are you already seeing it/being affected by it?
I know none of us has a crystal ball, but I thought I’d throw it out there anyways.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Jan 5, 2024 21:40:13 GMT -6
For a peek into what is already happening, see this article from the Guardian and go down to the bit on Daaci. link
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 5, 2024 21:40:54 GMT -6
It’ll destroy us. There will be a chat bot version of a DAW, you tell it what to do and 10 seconds later it spits out a mix, you give feedback and it makes revisions till you’re happy. And it will be good, very good, and faster than any human.
I know some people will say, “but it’ll have no soul, only a human could mix a song with emotion” etc. But no, AI will figure it out. We have begun the exponential ascent of AI. We’re still in the infancy of everything, but in 5 years?
Same applies to songwriting, singing, etc etc.
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Post by geoff738 on Jan 5, 2024 22:21:15 GMT -6
While I agree this stuff is still in its infancy, and will get better, I wonder if it will paradoxically increase demand or at least interest in human contact. I have a teenager looking at college next year. A year ago AI wasn’t something we ever discussed. Now? What direction should he go where AI isn’t going to wipe out his field of study before he even graduates. I admit I have no answers. But we’re thinking about it.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 6, 2024 1:09:07 GMT -6
While I agree this stuff is still in its infancy, and will get better, I wonder if it will paradoxically increase demand or at least interest in human contact. I have a teenager looking at college next year. A year ago AI wasn’t something we ever discussed. Now? What direction should he go where AI isn’t going to wipe out his field of study before he even graduates. I admit I have no answers. But we’re thinking about it. Cheers, Geoff screw college go into the trades. Or get an associates in business, take an online digital marketing course and build your own business as a plumber/welder/GC/any trade really. Not enough people doing any of that and AI isn't about to start building houses. Designing yes, but not building. Easily become a self made millionaire with those and never be out of work. Otherwise, yeah, I bet it'll replace just about everything other than recording. Anything that involves physical interaction. Robots are still a long ways off I think. But imagine in my life time they will start to become more common.
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 6, 2024 2:01:37 GMT -6
It will not have much of an impact. In the beginning everyone are mystified and scared of it, in the long run it finds its place as a tool just as the daw did or any other helping mechanism, as it has find its way in numerous industries decades ago. You have to understand AI cannot replace any creative procedures, it can only be a supportive and off loading tool. It can not really create, it can only use existing algorithms and references created by humans. And the more it is used the more repetitive it becomes. Where I come from AI has been a big debate but already kind of getting boring. I think the same will happen in music. It can sure replace cheap jingle writing and create free ringtones for a clientele that was never ready to pay for anything what so ever. It can be an online generic mastering suite for those who would never have sent their song to a professional mastering engineer anyway etc etc. so i think it might make some existing services even cheaper to produce but not interfere or replace any relevant ones.
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Post by viciousbliss on Jan 6, 2024 2:45:35 GMT -6
I've already written a lot on the topic in other discussions here. Not much else to add. In short, hundreds of emerging technologies are about to radically change the world. Mostly for the better. Modern AI is already creating singers and songs. It will rapidly get more sophisticated. With things like the trades, we've got 3d printing and all sorts of new construction tech that will radically cut costs while increasing efficiency and quality. At the same time that jobs are automated, resources and everything else related to necessities grows in abundance. The need to work will start to drop significantly along with prices. We'll have a lot more control over our time. With studios, it will start with AI doing some basic stuff before it gets to the point where it's extracting the nonlinear qualities from hardware and tape perfectly and then allowing you to use them however you wish. You'll just tell it what to do for the most part. Like if Acustica's methods were completely accurate. I could see them adopting tech like that before the average user ends up being able to do the same thing.
There are videos on Youtube about our "on demand society". That will only grow. People with bands will be able to buy digital versions of people. You want Slash in your band, only $99 for the algorithmic audio-only version. You want the full immersion VR Slash that will interact with you as if the real Slash was there, that's $999. People will go in and jam with their AI VR fantasy bands and then record using 1:1 copies of hardware and new AI devices that are a combination of several hardware pieces, like a Pensado Eq. That's if they even want to record and mix and all instead of just having the AI spit something out. AI will also be able serve as a producer, like an AI of Bob Rock and then some new producer characters created by the AI. Like I've said before, I think human-created music will become a genre of its own. But there will come a day when no one can tell them apart. Already the songs that most heavily use AI blend in very well.
We're only one year out from 2025 and that's a big year with forecasters. 1995 had some game-changing stuff happen that most people didn't see coming.
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Post by ml on Jan 6, 2024 6:33:12 GMT -6
Well one things for sure, we will probably get about 50 new 1176 plugins.
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Post by Ward on Jan 6, 2024 6:43:29 GMT -6
We’ve gone past the point of truly beneficial returns from technology of this kind.
Everything is past starting to plastic, now it’s starting to sound like artificial sweetener complete with the bitter saccharine after-taste. [old man shaking fist at clouds warning] This kind of AI will probably be embraced by the 20-somethings that want to create ‘magic’ in 20 minutes so they can get back to another 4 hour fortnight marathon in their parents’ basements. [/old man rant over]
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 6, 2024 8:10:39 GMT -6
While I agree this stuff is still in its infancy, and will get better, I wonder if it will paradoxically increase demand or at least interest in human contact. I have a teenager looking at college next year. A year ago AI wasn’t something we ever discussed. Now? What direction should he go where AI isn’t going to wipe out his field of study before he even graduates. I admit I have no answers. But we’re thinking about it. Cheers, Geoff Electrician, plumber, carpentry. Fine woodworking school. Learn how to make incredibly expensive furniture, doors, cabinets etc. Despite people saying how shit the economy is, there are always incredibly rich people that love buying that stuff. High end finishing.
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Post by Ward on Jan 6, 2024 9:48:54 GMT -6
While I agree this stuff is still in its infancy, and will get better, I wonder if it will paradoxically increase demand or at least interest in human contact. I have a teenager looking at college next year. A year ago AI wasn’t something we ever discussed. Now? What direction should he go where AI isn’t going to wipe out his field of study before he even graduates. I admit I have no answers. But we’re thinking about it. Cheers, Geoff Electrician, plumber, carpentry. Fine woodworking school. Learn how to make incredibly expensive furniture, doors, cabinets etc. Despite people saying how shit the economy is, there are always incredibly rich people that love buying that stuff. High end finishing. That's a very good point. But it also means the music 'trade' becomes far more selective as only the most gifted and instantly able can enter. The threshold for our craft is set at expert level, leaving no room or time for those who are truly gifted but a little slower fine-tuning their craft to gain any traction at this profession.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 6, 2024 10:02:22 GMT -6
Electrician, plumber, carpentry. Fine woodworking school. Learn how to make incredibly expensive furniture, doors, cabinets etc. Despite people saying how shit the economy is, there are always incredibly rich people that love buying that stuff. High end finishing. That's a very good point. But it also means the music 'trade' becomes far more selective as only the most gifted and instantly able can enter. The threshold for our craft is set at expert level, leaving no room or time for those who are truly gifted but a little slower fine-tuning their craft to gain any traction at this profession. That’s true. I learned quickly because I was just put into situations where I had to perform. I entered the studio as an intern with about 4 others. I made it my goal to be the last one standing. The others all had the same schooling as I did, but I was the only one that had to smarts to realize that the night shift was where it’s at. The other kids wanted to not work on the weekends and nights. That’s when I formed my relationships with the assistants and engineers. I showed them I was hungry and wanted to learn and could be trusted. In return they showed me their systems, how they did backups, how they printed stems etc. Now they could leave me to do that work and they could go home after a long day of work trusting I wouldn’t screw them over when they came in the next day. No matter what you choose to do, it’s about inserting yourself into the position to learn, and having the drive to do what it takes to better yourself and make life easier for those you work for and with. THATS what I think makes the difference between the ones doing it and those that wish they were doing it. Persistence and dedication to your craft is what separates you from the half assed rest. And that goes for anything in life. I was blessed with great parents and grandparents that taught me that lesson from a very young age.
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Post by drbill on Jan 6, 2024 10:46:00 GMT -6
I suspect AI will crumble society overall. It will take awhile, but I believe it's coming. The less we have to "work" the worse society becomes. On the music front it's already happening. "Music for Hire" will be the first hit. Commercials, music for TV and media, Films, etc.. Artists will eventually be hit as well. We'll see how it shakes out, but I don't have high hopes.
Interestingly, on a recent electronics design question, ChatGPT "got it wrong". When confronted with the error, it apologized, then gave a second answer that also contradicted standard procedure. When confronted again, it again apologized and went back to the initial error. So.....it's not perfect yet. We can only hope that it reaches it's zenith quickly and becomes "just another tool", as opposed to keeper of the universe.
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Post by seawell on Jan 6, 2024 10:59:37 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jan 6, 2024 11:00:10 GMT -6
That's a very good point. But it also means the music 'trade' becomes far more selective as only the most gifted and instantly able can enter. The threshold for our craft is set at expert level, leaving no room or time for those who are truly gifted but a little slower fine-tuning their craft to gain any traction at this profession. That’s true. I learned quickly because I was just put into situations where I had to perform. I entered the studio as an intern with about 4 others. I made it my goal to be the last one standing. The others all had the same schooling as I did, but I was the only one that had to smarts to realize that the night shift was where it’s at. The other kids wanted to not work on the weekends and nights. That’s when I formed my relationships with the assistants and engineers. I showed them I was hungry and wanted to learn and could be trusted. In return they showed me their systems, how they did backups, how they printed stems etc. Now they could leave me to do that work and they could go home after a long day of work trusting I wouldn’t screw them over when they came in the next day. No matter what you choose to do, it’s about inserting yourself into the position to learn, and having the drive to do what it takes to better yourself and make life easier for those you work for and with. THATS what I think makes the difference between the ones doing it and those that wish they were doing it. Persistence and dedication to your craft is what separates you from the half assed rest. And that goes for anything in life. I was blessed with great parents and grandparents that taught me that lesson from a very young age. You and I took similar paths and I am still a "dog for work"
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ericn
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Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Jan 6, 2024 11:22:21 GMT -6
Electrician, plumber, carpentry. Fine woodworking school. Learn how to make incredibly expensive furniture, doors, cabinets etc. Despite people saying how shit the economy is, there are always incredibly rich people that love buying that stuff. High end finishing. That's a very good point. But it also means the music 'trade' becomes far more selective as only the most gifted and instantly able can enter. The threshold for our craft is set at expert level, leaving no room or time for those who are truly gifted but a little slower fine-tuning their craft to gain any traction at this profession. I’m not sure about only the most gifted being able to survive, hear me out. I’m sure the $ in AI will mean the obvious route will be to make us all sound like Clapton, Hendrix, EVH, but what if you want to be Joey Ramone? The $ isn’t there and the obvious route for the software is to make us all sound like Clapton.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 6, 2024 11:49:12 GMT -6
And are you already seeing it/being affected by it? I know none of us has a crystal ball, but I thought I’d throw it out there anyways. Cheers, Geoff If a person is a creative person then it won't effect them at all. If a person is a "painting by numbers" person then AI just might "paint by better numbers" I consider myself a very creative person and critically - genuine creativity isn't the result of intelligence.Even I don't understand how I do what I do - I remain amazed myself as to where creativity comes from - it's wonderfully mysterious and magical - as it should be. Therefore I'm not even remotely bothered by AI. Quite the opposite, I hope as many people as possible turn to AI's to provide their creative output. It will make genuinely creative people even more unique and stand out.
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Post by ml on Jan 6, 2024 12:21:32 GMT -6
And are you already seeing it/being affected by it? I know none of us has a crystal ball, but I thought I’d throw it out there anyways. Cheers, Geoff If a person is a creative person then it won't effect them at all. If a person is a "painting by numbers" person then AI just might "paint by better numbers" I consider myself a very creative person and critically - genuine creativity isn't the result of intelligence.Even I don't understand how I do what I do - I remain amazed myself as to where creativity comes from - it's wonderfully mysterious and magical - as it should be. Therefore I'm not even remotely bothered by AI. Quite the opposite, I hope as many people as possible turn to AI's to provide their creative output. It will make genuinely creative people even more unique and stand out. Plus seeking a computer AI for help with creativity / collaboration seems rather lonely. Unless the cyborgs they eventually create are super friendly and cool.
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 6, 2024 12:27:54 GMT -6
The question of how it will affect the industry is maybe all and all a bit misleading. Not everything within the “industry” is connected, competing or gravitating towards the same goal or market. The needs and requirements of a nashville singer songwriter production vs. an edm one hit wonder or purely commercial sound scape for a car ad or burger joint commercial or voice overs for an educational clip is like talking apples and oranges. There are sectors where it will have a very beneficial role and sectors where it will not appear in any role.
While the AI and digital platforms have developed, there has been a simultaneous throwback into the appreciation of analog and lets say “historical” producing. It’s a similar polarization we can see in numerous contexts across our society from politics to various industries of heritage in artisan craftsmanship. A broader use of AI will likely and hopefully contribute in an active counter culture in terms of cheap mass production vs custom artisan work. It’s just an already existing gap that just broadens.
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Post by geoff738 on Jan 6, 2024 12:36:25 GMT -6
I like the diversity of opinions so far. I’m a pessimist by nature, but as I sort of alluded to above the desire for human contact, and creativity, may be sought out as this tech becomes more entrenched. We shall see.
Just as an aside I was texting with a bunch of high school buddies, several of who were band mates back in the day, and the subject of turd polishing in mixing came up. And somebody wondered if Chatgpt could write a limerick about turd polishing. And the answer is yes, yes it can. They were pretty funny actually. We also had a go at writing a metal lyric. And compared it to a random Maiden one. Perhaps not setting the bar that high, but the AI lyric wasn’t subjectively worse.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 6, 2024 12:42:57 GMT -6
I like the diversity of opinions so far. I’m a pessimist by nature, but as I sort of alluded to above the desire for human contact, and creativity, may be sought out as this tech becomes more entrenched. We shall see. Just as an aside I was texting with a bunch of high school buddies, several of who were band mates back in the day, and the subject of turd polishing in mixing came up. And somebody wondered if Chatgpt could write a limerick about turd polishing. And the answer is yes, yes it can. They were pretty funny actually. We also had a go at writing a metal lyric. And compared it to a random Maiden one. Perhaps not setting the bar that high, but the AI lyric wasn’t subjectively worse. Cheers, Geoff Interesting observation regarding the lyrics. I have looked at some ai generated lyrics and sure they do not vary too much from top selling pop chart today. Just as substance-less and generic. There is you see one thing the AI will never have, which (at least for me) is the sole and only reason to listen to and create music. It will never have a story to tell.
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Post by drbill on Jan 6, 2024 13:27:30 GMT -6
There's some very nuanced and insightful / informed thoughts here, and some quite naive (under informed) ones as well. One thing is certain. The near future is going to reveal the real truth.... AI is growing exponentially fast. That much is fact and undeniable. It is scary that some of the most informed tech gurus are shaking in their boots.
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Post by seawell on Jan 6, 2024 14:49:59 GMT -6
A lot of unnecessary fear mongering amplified by the media regarding AI when ChatGPT made such an initial splash. The letter a bunch of smart people signed stating we needed to pause for 6 months to be safe was nothing more than them wanting time to catch up and grab some marketshare in my opinion. The AI generated music is a joke, pictures regularly have people with 6 fingers. Nothing high quality at all.
It is interesting though and at some point could maybe speed up some of the mundane tasks but replacing the magic that is human creativity...I don't think so. Now, the question becomes, does the general public any longer care about or appreciate true art or creativity? That, I'm not so sure about. I doubt AI gets so much better, it will just be a matter of if people think it's good enough. The best AI music I heard was the imitation of Drake but Drake already doesn't sound like a human so it's not that impressive overall. At the same time he's one of the most popular artists of this generation so maybe people don't care? Standards across society, not just in music have been lowered and lowered for quite a while now. I mean how many times can you go out now and not see someone wearing pajama pants in public? 🤣
Now on the creepy side of AI, where I really think it is going to take off is as a product for loneliness. An awful lot of lonely people out there, still mentally scarred from the covid era amongst other things that are going to have very confusing/odd "relationships" with some form of AI. That part does worry me. I'm glad I grew up when I did.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 6, 2024 15:01:14 GMT -6
A lot of unnecessary fear mongering amplified by the media regarding AI when ChatGPT made such an initial splash. The letter a bunch of smart people signed stating we needed to pause for 6 months to be safe was nothing more than them wanting time to catch up and grab some marketshare in my opinion. The AI generated music is a joke, pictures regularly have people with 6 fingers. Nothing high quality at all. It is interesting though and at some point could maybe speed up some of the mundane tasks but replacing the magic that is human creativity...I don't think so. Now, the question becomes, does the general public any longer care about or appreciate true art or creativity? That, I'm not so sure about. I doubt AI gets so much better, it will just be a matter of if people think it's good enough. The best AI music I heard was the imitation of Drake but Drake already doesn't sound like a human so it's not that impressive overall. At the same time he's one of the most popular artists of this generation so maybe people don't care? Standards across society, not just in music have been lowered and lowered for quite a while now. I mean how many times can you go out now and not see someone wearing pajama pants in public? 🤣 Now on the creepy side of AI, where I really think it is going to take off is as a product for loneliness. An awful lot of lonely people out there, still mentally scared from the covid era amongst other things that are going to have very confusing/odd "relationships" with some form of AI. That part does worry me. I'm glad I grew up when I did. I watched a movie about that starring Scarlet Johnson - IIRC it was called "Her" it did throw up a few interesting questions and lines of thought.
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Post by ab101 on Jan 6, 2024 15:28:15 GMT -6
Imho - we are way more advanced technologically than we are in our capabilities to manage the technological advancements in a good way. If Covid is a lab accident, that is just one recent example that killed millions. And if it was not a lab accident, the point is that it could have been. I do not want to argue whether in fact it was a lab accident or not as what the heck do I know, but that is not the point. We have that capability, and that is the point. And another point is that we are doing little to stop experimenting with technologies that have consequences beyond our comprehension. How many of us really thought, let's say ten years ago, that there would be a worldwide pandemic that killed millions because of something so microscoptic?
Human history shows that any negative side of a technology will eventually be used. So, we do need to consider the negatives of AI. And the time to do that is now.
Look at all the computer viruses, spybots, authorizations, ilok, passwords, etc. - all signs that we have too many dishonest and nefarious people in the world. We all suffer because of these sad character traits. How many more advanced technologies do we want to give to these people?
The telephone was a level down from in-person communication. And text chats are a level down from the telephone. What is the next level down? Pretend people? And what are the consquences for human relationships? Will people be even capable of looking at each other in the eyes anymore?
Urban dwellers lost the night sky with artifical light. What do we lose with each so-called technological advancement? Imho, that must be considered.
Now come up with a technology that improves human character development - that would be something. But that does not seem to be the focus. Someday it might have to be.
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