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Post by geoff738 on Feb 2, 2024 21:26:32 GMT -6
Ok just for the record. I appreciated his contributions here. Even if a lot of it flew over my head. Or if I understood Icompletely agreed with. But my monitors with cheap plate amps (is that the phrase?). Are doing weird stuff and probably just need to junked. He might not have been wrong on that. I wish him well
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 2, 2024 23:40:57 GMT -6
thousands of customers have asked UAD to implement some kind of plug-in list making it easier to find the plug-ins you have for ten years now. They still leave you to scroll through all their plugs to find what you're looking for. Yes, there are workarounds, but my point is, even something as simple as this was blown off by UAD for some convoluted corporate reasoning. I don't believe for a second this was avoided by UA for any convoluted reason. I believe it is there 100% on purpose. If you accidentally forget that you don't own that plugin and try it (well, maybe you end up liking it), or worse, you use it, and then come back to your session and it's expired and now you are forced to buy it? It's purely a sales/marketing move. It's free advertising right inside your DAW. I completely agree doubledog, you just said it better.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 2, 2024 23:41:05 GMT -6
I never thought of Dan as trying to insult people here. He called out a lot of objective flaws in products. Corrected untruths. Gave us in-depth analysis rooted in provable facts that no one else did. Sometimes I was puzzled at his tastes like when he told me modern Iron Maiden albums sounded better than the classics or that the O2 headphone amp was terrible(he never did answer my question as to why he felt that way as far as I can recall). But I just chalked it up to him being a bit eccentric. I've always wanted to hear his work. Perhaps it wouldn't suit my taste at all. After all, I've never embraced the way the TDR stuff sounded. Never got into Fuse either. Don't get me wrong. They're both very good companies, but I just never fell in love with them. With what he said about the Softube stuff recently and some of their design choices it made sense as to why I didn't like the sound of their non-FX plugins when used certain ways. His info about Satin and the SP2016 got me using them again when I had put them aside for a long time. This recent stuff here, I was kinda waiting for him to give us the big narrative as it seemed he was connecting some dots. One point he seemed to be making was that modern hardware sounds more transparent and perhaps isn't worth having because of that. I'm not sure. The high-end stuff I've heard and/or worked with sounded classy. It could be clear, but also full and have some vibe to it. Still a big difference between plugin emulations and hardware versions of a Shadow Hills, VSM, or a Stamchild. Didn't he not care that much for the Weiss stuff a while back? I seem to remember him commenting about it over the years but now he's acquired it and thinks it's top notch. He always kinda digging, seeking out some kinda broader answers. It was always interesting to see where he went. Admittedly, I would kinda tune out some of the most eccentric stuff he said and just focus on things he wrote that were clear cut evidence of an objective problem. That's what I like to do, try and take real data and facts and then sorta follow my own path with it. At the end of the day, that's all we can really do. We don't need to try and be like anyone or strive to emulate certain subjective standards and styles. Adhering to objective principles like dithering is completely different though. Dan was big on that kinda stuff. The thing that probably rubs people the wrong way about him is the absolutist way he talks at times. "this thing suck", "this thing is terrible", he doesn't use a lot of tact at times. When he'd say that about something I used, I'd often wonder what he found that would lead him to that conclusion. He left GS a while ago, I think. Hopefully he comes back here as I don't know that he'd pop up on KVR or VI-Control. Probably not on Audio Science Review either. I'm sure his writeups on here took hours to do at times, he certainly put the effort in. Too bad he deleted his profile, he probably had more lurker fans than he knew and some of us will want to go back and read things he posted. My guess is that he wants to avoid the temptation to come back and spend hours a week on here. I don't think he hates everyone here enough to screw us out of reading his work. Too bad he doesn't have a website or anything, at least not one that I know of. There was a lot of useful knowledge that deserves to be preserved. Hey - he’s welcome back…all I wanted was for him to consider whether what he was about to say was going to come off like a butthole. Dan was starting to be a butthole…in every thread. Let me add a caveat to the welcome back. He mentioned he was “wasting my time posting here.” Which I found a bit…well…bitchy. I chalked it up to just being upset and frustrated…BUT if that’s truly how he feels, that he is bestowing us with knowledge sitting at the right hand of Dick Swettingham and Rupert Neve from on high…(although, I’d pay to hear that discussion) then maybe it’s a good break.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 2, 2024 23:45:12 GMT -6
I don't believe for a second this was avoided by UA for any convoluted reason. I believe it is there 100% on purpose. If you accidentally forget that you don't own that plugin and try it (well, maybe you end up liking it), or worse, you use it, and then come back to your session and it's expired and now you are forced to buy it? It's purely a sales/marketing move. It's free advertising right inside your DAW. I completely agree doubledog, you just said it better. I completely forgot what the thread was about.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2024 1:27:39 GMT -6
Ok. Not Dan related. But this thread made me go back and look at all the current UA plugs. And even if they were all ported to native theres only a handful, and a very small handful at that, that I would be even remotely interested in. Cheers, Geoff Bingo I have bought and sold all my UA plugs twice with that realization. Recently, bought signature bundle as it contained plugs I would use, it was cheap and they are native: no UA hardware required.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2024 1:33:37 GMT -6
I don't believe for a second this was avoided by UA for any convoluted reason. I believe it is there 100% on purpose. If you accidentally forget that you don't own that plugin and try it (well, maybe you end up liking it), or worse, you use it, and then come back to your session and it's expired and now you are forced to buy it? It's purely a sales/marketing move. It's free advertising right inside your DAW. I completely agree doubledog, you just said it better. Well maybe, there is an efficiency to just getting everything in one download. If people were downloading individual plugs, maybe this actually puts more load on its servers, ie more total volume ? Anyway, there is a UA plug in cleaner app , that removes all the plugs you don’t own. So, you only have this issue if you don’t do the clean out. Also, in logic you can make your own plug in folders based on what you use and not see what you don’t ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2024 1:36:34 GMT -6
I completely agree doubledog, you just said it better. I completely forgot what the thread was about. No offence, I would rather you hadn’t changed the title as it was focussing on whether UA actually came up with a viable solution to the problem it created, the rest of the convo is extraneous to its actual subject: maybe you could split off all this posts, so this is coherent?
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Post by javamad on Feb 3, 2024 3:39:06 GMT -6
Just clicked on the link and tried to find 10 plugs I’d want…there are maybe 2-3 that I think I’d use, 5 more I’d probably forget about and then I can’t even pick the last two because I know I’d never use them. I’m sure I will want new plugs…but I’m kinda maxed out at the moment. Need to put this into hardware at this point. My thoughts exactly I followed the link and started adding but my initial interest went away after about 4 plugins and I was just adding for the sake of it. The few I was excited about I had already demoed but never bought. I imagine this will apply to most who qualify for the deal… we already have most of what we would buy anyway. In fact I have way too many plugins altogether 🤣
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2024 4:17:52 GMT -6
Right, a deal that costs UA little and provides most people with little value: how does this reward or actually recognize your “loyalty” vs the direct savings of at least a couple of grand that UA provided to the new lapsing subscribers?
Given that the long term heavily invested UA customer was actually the backbone of its success, it could have and should have offered you/them something much more meaningful and truly of value.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 3, 2024 5:50:32 GMT -6
Do you still have your Lynx Aurora n? Yup, my fav so far.After all Apollos and symphony mkii. Nice. I’m between a Burl Mothership or a Lynx Aurora N. The Lynx 16 AES is about £4.5K so cheaper than the equivalent Burl. I’m not sure if I need the Burl transformers - though I believe on some modules that option is switchable. As I have a HEDD 192 for my stereo bus I’m thinking the Lynx is probably the better solution.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2024 6:07:05 GMT -6
You’re in uk Skav is selling his 16 usb in classified asking $3k.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 3, 2024 6:35:02 GMT -6
You’re in uk Skav is selling his 16 usb in classified asking $3k. Thanks for the heads up. Not great timing for me, just payed out for the kids university housing costs for this year. Also, I'd need to add an AES card and to do that is another £400 plus the unit has to go back to Lynx to have it fitted according to their website. I think, in a year or so I'll probably go down this route though, I hear nothing but stella things about these converters
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2024 6:39:27 GMT -6
All good.
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Post by sean on Feb 3, 2024 9:12:06 GMT -6
Thanks for the heads up, picked this up and their Doubler/Widener. I’ve got some old mixes that had Sonnox stuff on them and it’ll be nice for recall purposes if nothing else UA…well let’s see if I were to complain about something is that the EQ section of the Vision channel strip is a really pain to adjust…you’d think clicking on a knob and “turning” it wouldn’t be so difficult. I actually like the EQ and filters a lot but it definitely can be frustrating and I can’t imagine after 5? years since its release I’d be that hard to fix
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Post by bubblejackets on Feb 3, 2024 11:18:31 GMT -6
UA…well let’s see if I were to complain about something is that the EQ section of the Vision channel strip is a really pain to adjust…you’d think clicking on a knob and “turning” it wouldn’t be so difficult. Totally agree! I’ve started switching on the trackball just to turn those annoying knobs.
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Post by viciousbliss on Feb 3, 2024 15:12:37 GMT -6
I never thought of Dan as trying to insult people here. He called out a lot of objective flaws in products. Corrected untruths. Gave us in-depth analysis rooted in provable facts that no one else did. Sometimes I was puzzled at his tastes like when he told me modern Iron Maiden albums sounded better than the classics or that the O2 headphone amp was terrible(he never did answer my question as to why he felt that way as far as I can recall). But I just chalked it up to him being a bit eccentric. I've always wanted to hear his work. Perhaps it wouldn't suit my taste at all. After all, I've never embraced the way the TDR stuff sounded. Never got into Fuse either. Don't get me wrong. They're both very good companies, but I just never fell in love with them. With what he said about the Softube stuff recently and some of their design choices it made sense as to why I didn't like the sound of their non-FX plugins when used certain ways. His info about Satin and the SP2016 got me using them again when I had put them aside for a long time. This recent stuff here, I was kinda waiting for him to give us the big narrative as it seemed he was connecting some dots. One point he seemed to be making was that modern hardware sounds more transparent and perhaps isn't worth having because of that. I'm not sure. The high-end stuff I've heard and/or worked with sounded classy. It could be clear, but also full and have some vibe to it. Still a big difference between plugin emulations and hardware versions of a Shadow Hills, VSM, or a Stamchild. Didn't he not care that much for the Weiss stuff a while back? I seem to remember him commenting about it over the years but now he's acquired it and thinks it's top notch. He always kinda digging, seeking out some kinda broader answers. It was always interesting to see where he went. Admittedly, I would kinda tune out some of the most eccentric stuff he said and just focus on things he wrote that were clear cut evidence of an objective problem. That's what I like to do, try and take real data and facts and then sorta follow my own path with it. At the end of the day, that's all we can really do. We don't need to try and be like anyone or strive to emulate certain subjective standards and styles. Adhering to objective principles like dithering is completely different though. Dan was big on that kinda stuff. The thing that probably rubs people the wrong way about him is the absolutist way he talks at times. "this thing suck", "this thing is terrible", he doesn't use a lot of tact at times. When he'd say that about something I used, I'd often wonder what he found that would lead him to that conclusion. He left GS a while ago, I think. Hopefully he comes back here as I don't know that he'd pop up on KVR or VI-Control. Probably not on Audio Science Review either. I'm sure his writeups on here took hours to do at times, he certainly put the effort in. Too bad he deleted his profile, he probably had more lurker fans than he knew and some of us will want to go back and read things he posted. My guess is that he wants to avoid the temptation to come back and spend hours a week on here. I don't think he hates everyone here enough to screw us out of reading his work. Too bad he doesn't have a website or anything, at least not one that I know of. There was a lot of useful knowledge that deserves to be preserved. Hey - he’s welcome back…all I wanted was for him to consider whether what he was about to say was going to come off like a butthole. Dan was starting to be a butthole…in every thread. Let me add a caveat to the welcome back. He mentioned he was “wasting my time posting here.” Which I found a bit…well…bitchy. I chalked it up to just being upset and frustrated…BUT if that’s truly how he feels, that he is bestowing us with knowledge sitting at the right hand of Dick Swettingham and Rupert Neve from on high…(although, I’d pay to hear that discussion) then maybe it’s a good break. To be fair, I am sure I did not read a lot of the other threads he posted in. He was always very hyperbolic and unpolished. Didn't have much of a filter. Not very calculating in how he said things. You almost have to sort of decipher what he really means when he gets into all the hyperbole. His knowledge often checked out when compared to things someone like Andy from Cytomic said in the plugin analysis thread. Like with the Metric Halo biquads problem. Sometimes he'd do things that I found puzzling. I was always fascinated by how he kept blowing up his monitors. I guess he turned them up so loud trying to uncover some specific detail that they couldn't handle it? Sounded like some mad scientist stuff.
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Post by viciousbliss on Feb 3, 2024 15:14:42 GMT -6
Thanks for the heads up, picked this up and their Doubler/Widener. I’ve got some old mixes that had Sonnox stuff on them and it’ll be nice for recall purposes if nothing else UA…well let’s see if I were to complain about something is that the EQ section of the Vision channel strip is a really pain to adjust…you’d think clicking on a knob and “turning” it wouldn’t be so difficult. I actually like the EQ and filters a lot but it definitely can be frustrating and I can’t imagine after 5? years since its release I’d be that hard to fix That doubler is really good for creating fake doubles when you don't want to use Revoice Pro for time reasons. If I can't get a good result with Softube's Fix, I'll usually go to this one. They don't make the other one redundant.
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Post by drumsound on Feb 3, 2024 17:33:48 GMT -6
Thanks for the heads up, picked this up and their Doubler/Widener. I’ve got some old mixes that had Sonnox stuff on them and it’ll be nice for recall purposes if nothing else UA…well let’s see if I were to complain about something is that the EQ section of the Vision channel strip is a really pain to adjust…you’d think clicking on a knob and “turning” it wouldn’t be so difficult. I actually like the EQ and filters a lot but it definitely can be frustrating and I can’t imagine after 5? years since its release I’d be that hard to fix I'm with you on this. The WAVES API stuff has a very good UI. You can click on a frequency or boost or cut amount, since they are 'switched' it just jumps to whatever you click. I do wish UA would do that.
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Post by sean on Feb 3, 2024 19:44:03 GMT -6
Thanks for the heads up, picked this up and their Doubler/Widener. I’ve got some old mixes that had Sonnox stuff on them and it’ll be nice for recall purposes if nothing else UA…well let’s see if I were to complain about something is that the EQ section of the Vision channel strip is a really pain to adjust…you’d think clicking on a knob and “turning” it wouldn’t be so difficult. I actually like the EQ and filters a lot but it definitely can be frustrating and I can’t imagine after 5? years since its release I’d be that hard to fix I'm with you on this. The WAVES API stuff has a very good UI. You can click on a frequency or boost or cut amount, since they are 'switched' it just jumps to whatever you click. I do wish UA would do that. Same, I love that about the Waves, it’s super quick. Also, while UA is at it they should make a stand alone 550B from the Vision strip.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Feb 3, 2024 21:05:36 GMT -6
Oh…and I meant to mention the convenience of plugs. That’s a personal preference, though. I guess I wouldn’t put so much importance on convenience if I were making $2k per mix…but alas, I’m not. Is the tool returning investment? In my panicky brain, if it’s not, it hits the door. I mean, I attempt to make everything I mix as amazing sounding as I can…but I’m not buying a $4k stereo eq for sub-$500 mixes. It would be great to invest in a bunch of super high end gear and the quality of the mixes brings in tons of work…but that just doesn’t happen. Are people choosing a mixer because they list a chandler Zener and GML eq on the master? Idk the answer to that, but if you’re telling me all I have to do is buy that shit at 48mo interest free and then I’ll start getting a flood of jobs - hey, I’d looove to do that…but that hasn’t been my experience. All this could be different because I live in a place where every third house has a studio and your neighbor probably went to Berklee…so maybe my view is skewed. Btw - this wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. Just thinking out loud. If you were making 2K per mix you would be all about the convenience and consistency of recall using plugins🤪. In that market you are totally at the mercy of the clients every whim and fancy.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 3, 2024 21:08:21 GMT -6
Oh…and I meant to mention the convenience of plugs. That’s a personal preference, though. I guess I wouldn’t put so much importance on convenience if I were making $2k per mix…but alas, I’m not. Is the tool returning investment? In my panicky brain, if it’s not, it hits the door. I mean, I attempt to make everything I mix as amazing sounding as I can…but I’m not buying a $4k stereo eq for sub-$500 mixes. It would be great to invest in a bunch of super high end gear and the quality of the mixes brings in tons of work…but that just doesn’t happen. Are people choosing a mixer because they list a chandler Zener and GML eq on the master? Idk the answer to that, but if you’re telling me all I have to do is buy that shit at 48mo interest free and then I’ll start getting a flood of jobs - hey, I’d looove to do that…but that hasn’t been my experience. All this could be different because I live in a place where every third house has a studio and your neighbor probably went to Berklee…so maybe my view is skewed. Btw - this wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. Just thinking out loud. If you were making 2K per mix you would be all about the convenience and consistency of recall using plugins🤪. In that market you are totally at the mercy of the clients every whim and fancy. Well if you really wanna increase the client base, you probably need to have your studio wired with Mogami cables. Everybody knows that you can't get hired unless your studio is wired with Mogami cables
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Feb 3, 2024 21:29:53 GMT -6
If you were making 2K per mix you would be all about the convenience and consistency of recall using plugins🤪. In that market you are totally at the mercy of the clients every whim and fancy. Well if you really wanna increase the client base, you probably need to have your studio wired with Mogami cables. Everybody knows that you can't get hired unless your studio is wired with Mogami cables That’s my problem I’m all in on Canare😁 It’s all about the flexibility.
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 3, 2024 22:49:12 GMT -6
Well if you really wanna increase the client base, you probably need to have your studio wired with Mogami cables. Everybody knows that you can't get hired unless your studio is wired with Mogami cables That’s my problem I’m all in on Canare😁 It’s all about the flexibility. I love the way Canare wraps…
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Post by subspace on Feb 4, 2024 9:14:34 GMT -6
If you were making 2K per mix you would be all about the convenience and consistency of recall using plugins🤪. In that market you are totally at the mercy of the clients every whim and fancy. Well if you really wanna increase the client base, you probably need to have your studio wired with Mogami cables. Everybody knows that you can't get hired unless your studio is wired with Mogami cables Using Mogami destroys your audio, between the high capacitance everyone gets wiring it in quad and the inherent skinning effect from their shield design you might as well wire your room with lamp cable. It won't give you the detail required for editing sample-replaced kicks on 130bpm eurometal, but you couldn't hear that through the cheap plate amps built into everybody's preferred monitors anyway... #remember
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Feb 4, 2024 10:51:22 GMT -6
That’s my problem I’m all in on Canare😁 It’s all about the flexibility. I love the way Canare wraps… I know, and the RF rejection makes you fall in love if you’re doing mobile work. Besides nobody tries to steal Purple cables 😎
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