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Post by ragan on Dec 13, 2023 9:04:38 GMT -6
All this time, it was right there in front of us. The mighty AT4047! The 4047 ain't a bad mic at all. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for it. Same! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2023 9:06:01 GMT -6
Anyone afraid of de-essers? -7db at 6khz set to high end only and it will handle all sibilance without affecting anything else. Analog tape high end loss was part of the art, but so was those big foam rubber muff pop absorbers on most vocal mics. Even so, a good de-esser works way better.  Ward, try this www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-arbiter/ select one of the two de-esser presets. Change the quality from Precise to Insane. It is what you wish the dbx 902 and 520 sounded like but without any of that tone killing dbx circuitry. The Sonnox Supresser came close but dulls the top end unlike the Oxford Dynamics. Also you can get Paul Frindle's ProAudioDSP DSM for 30 bucks and it works magic www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/pro_audio_dsp_dsm_v3.html |
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Post by bossanova on Dec 13, 2023 9:13:49 GMT -6
Anyone afraid of de-essers? -7db at 6khz set to high end only and it will handle all sibilance without affecting anything else. Analog tape high end loss was part of the art, but so was those big foam rubber muff pop absorbers on most vocal mics. Even so, a good de-esser works way better. Ward, try this www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-arbiter/ select one of the two de-esser presets. Change the quality from Precise to Insane. It is what you wish the dbx 902 and 520 sounded like but without any of those tone killing dbx circuitry. The Sonnox Supresser came close but is tone killing to the top end. Also you can get Paul Frindle's ProAudioDSP DSM for 30 bucks and it works magic www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/pro_audio_dsp_dsm_v3.htmlDSM also has some “tape” presets intended to simulate the high frequency softening from tape. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 13, 2023 12:14:52 GMT -6
The 4047 ain't a bad mic at all. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for it. Same! I always liked it on a strummed acoustic. It sounded a little meaty/chunky, in a good way (Neil Young acoustic type sounds, for example). |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 13, 2023 13:06:02 GMT -6
Y'all are making me think about getting a 4047. I sold my pair off when I needed cash several years back...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 13, 2023 21:00:11 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it.
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Post by audiospecific on Dec 13, 2023 21:26:53 GMT -6
I was actually referring to The Eagles…was listening to Hotel California (the record not the song)…just from memory very different sounds from his solo stuff. I think he used a 3M machine like Supertramp did in those days.
Most of them liked that old RCa compressor on the bass. Another trick some of the would do is use a LA2A and treble up the vocal stem with adjusting the pre-emphasis filter.
Then there was some that ran the Pultec in bypass to give the mix more air.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 13, 2023 22:55:52 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it. Bob would know! So - how far off the mic would you guys have people sing? What do you think most contributed to make the top end so pleasant in those records? Just thinking of another description - I don’t feel like I’m missing any information sonically when I hear 70s classics, but they do seem “rolled off.” It’s like you hear the proper representation, it’s just that nothing is harsh or painful. Take something like Fleetwood Mac “Never Going Back Again.” That’s two bright guitars, but they’re never painful. It’s got a softness to it - and I guess that’s tape. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 13, 2023 22:57:09 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun. This might be the nerdiest thing I’ve ever posted. |
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Post by ragan on Dec 13, 2023 23:10:51 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it. Bob would know! So - how far off the mic would you guys have people sing? What do you think most contributed to make the top end so pleasant in those records? Just thinking of another description - I don’t feel like I’m missing any information sonically when I hear 70s classics, but they do seem “rolled off.” It’s like you hear the proper representation, it’s just that nothing is harsh or painful. Take something like Fleetwood Mac “Never Going Back Again.” That’s two bright guitars, but they’re never painful. It’s got a softness to it - and I guess that’s tape. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun. I do not want to imagine that |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 13, 2023 23:15:41 GMT -6
Bob would know! So - how far off the mic would you guys have people sing? What do you think most contributed to make the top end so pleasant in those records? Just thinking of another description - I don’t feel like I’m missing any information sonically when I hear 70s classics, but they do seem “rolled off.” It’s like you hear the proper representation, it’s just that nothing is harsh or painful. Take something like Fleetwood Mac “Never Going Back Again.” That’s two bright guitars, but they’re never painful. It’s got a softness to it - and I guess that’s tape. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun. I do not want to imagine that It was gonna be fine until the Taylor… Oh, snap |
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Post by audiospecific on Dec 14, 2023 4:11:38 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun.
Most of the problems with interfaces are they are not correctly built in the front end. Someone asked me on gearslutz what would be the biggest change. So I told him that front end should be changed out and sometimes they oversized the coupling capacitors for the application because they used the generic circuit in the datasheet.
So the guy modded the interface (M-audio 410), but didn't do an A/B test. What a drag. But he did comment on how high end hi-fi sounding it was. Because the circuit needs to start rolling off around 30-50Hz (which I didn't tell people that).
Also, signal impedance standards are different across equipment and if you didn't compensate for that you either had bad tone or trouble with clipping when recording. Some freaked out when I said 600 ohms is an outdated standard, and when the mismatch between equipment happens, you get either elevated noise floor or bad frequency response.
I could do that standard recording, but you would kind of freak out as the Steinberg would be in pieces in an ugly mess, but recording would be awesome.
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Post by bossanova on Dec 14, 2023 9:53:10 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it. Bob would know! So - how far off the mic would you guys have people sing? What do you think most contributed to make the top end so pleasant in those records? Just thinking of another description - I don’t feel like I’m missing any information sonically when I hear 70s classics, but they do seem “rolled off.” It’s like you hear the proper representation, it’s just that nothing is harsh or painful. Take something like Fleetwood Mac “Never Going Back Again.” That’s two bright guitars, but they’re never painful. It’s got a softness to it - and I guess that’s tape. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun. In case he doesn't get back right away, I think I remember Bob saying in the past that singers at Motown could be anywhere from 2 to 5 ft off the mic because the room sounded so good. |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 14, 2023 11:09:06 GMT -6
Distance in a well designed studio was a whole bunch of it. Bob would know! So - how far off the mic would you guys have people sing? What do you think most contributed to make the top end so pleasant in those records? Just thinking of another description - I don’t feel like I’m missing any information sonically when I hear 70s classics, but they do seem “rolled off.” It’s like you hear the proper representation, it’s just that nothing is harsh or painful. Take something like Fleetwood Mac “Never Going Back Again.” That’s two bright guitars, but they’re never painful. It’s got a softness to it - and I guess that’s tape. Imagine recording someone doing NGBA…but all you had was a Steinberg interface, an API 312, a TLM103 and C451 and a Taylor with 80/20s…not fun.  I do not want to imagine that It was gonna be fine until the Taylor… Oh, snap Yeah, the Taylor is the worst part of that scenario! I've done some chamber trio stuff with a Steinberg interface that sounded quite lovely with just a pair of sE T2 mics in a good sized classroom that was teared. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 14, 2023 12:39:50 GMT -6
Three to five feet was not uncommon. It vastly reduced he need for compression in addition to the more uniform microphone response. I was very disappointed after I left Motown and worked in studios that lost vocal presence that far back.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 14, 2023 12:47:06 GMT -6
When I went to the Motown Museum they said I could sing in the Snake Pit!
Thought my dream came true...
Until they gave me a map, of the Detroit Zoo.
Maybe someday I'll try some Monty Python too.
Chris
P.S. Am guessing Paul G's Studio is also capable of long distance miking.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 14, 2023 15:25:03 GMT -6
I do not want to imagine that It was gonna be fine until the Taylor… Oh, snap Hey, Buckingham plays one live, at least. And on that song, too. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 14, 2023 15:25:53 GMT -6
It was gonna be fine until the Taylor… Oh, snap Hey, Buckingham plays one live, at least. And on that song, too. Oh no shit… |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 14, 2023 15:39:32 GMT -6
Hey, Buckingham plays one live, at least. And on that song, too. Oh no shit… One of many examples:
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Post by ragan on Dec 14, 2023 15:48:38 GMT -6
Damn that’s mesmerizing
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 14, 2023 15:56:07 GMT -6
I love his playing...and yes that sounds like a Taylor. He's always had kind of a direct sound...
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Post by ragan on Dec 14, 2023 16:06:44 GMT -6
Yeah super direct-y. You can hear it (and his awesome playing) a mile away.
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 14, 2023 16:50:18 GMT -6
He is an amazing guitar player.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 14, 2023 17:13:28 GMT -6
Love his very personalised rendition. as to the Taylor; some of them can sound amazingly good and that is his sound right there soundhole plug and all.
Ive owned a 714, wasn't enamoured of the neck shape but the instrument had tone for days FWIW.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by notneeson on Dec 14, 2023 17:31:54 GMT -6
Yeah super direct-y. You can hear it (and his awesome playing) a mile away. Exception that proves the rule. |
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