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Post by easyrider on Apr 21, 2024 4:49:14 GMT -6
Plugins are a waste of money….we buy them cause they’re cheap….not because we need them. Interesting take. I’ve made a living off of plugins. Good on you… if I hired you to record me…I would want to record through a high end pre…and processed with hardware comps…my electric guitars tracked through real amps and api pres and EQs…. I would feel short changed if you brought up a UAD emulation I bought for $7
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Post by easyrider on Apr 21, 2024 4:54:23 GMT -6
Plugins are a waste of money….we buy them cause they’re cheap….not because we need them. While still a huge hardware guy I have to say the reasons given to me by most of the working pros I know would say you got it ass backwards, recall and finding that sweet spot on hardware is the waste of time. Yes pretty much every plugin in chasing the tone of analog has left me wanting the analog, every Analog recreation of what a plugin can do has had the same effect. Understand for many this isn’t about chasing sonic nirvana, it’s about paying the rent, we normally don’t get paid by the hour but buy the project these days so if a plugin in can get closer to perfect quickly and get me back there quickly it’s not a waste of money it’s a money maker. I guess it all about the context…a home user doesn’t need 10 x 1176 plugins from loads of different developers….and cork sniff each one…but we buy them cause they’re only $29 or less…I’m guilty of it…I bought my last plugin in Jan 2023 and have no intention of buy another single one…the market is saturated and the a con in my opinion….strap an old scratched GUI on a rare hardware emulation …call it warm and fat in the marketing sprinkled with a bit of vintage vibe and you have a licence to print money…
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Post by Dan on Apr 21, 2024 9:40:49 GMT -6
Interesting take. I’ve made a living off of plugins. Good on you… if I hired you to record me…I would want to record through a high end pre…and processed with hardware comps…my electric guitars tracked through real amps and api pres and EQs…. I would feel short changed if you brought up a UAD emulation I bought for $7 the Softube plexi is on so many records because it comes with a UAD Apollo. There are better amp sims now and tube quality is so bad now that many real modern amps sound better sweetened by a selected tube plugins. Hardware compressors mostly change a good guitar tone and not for the better except for very few, rather clean modernish compressors.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 21, 2024 9:43:28 GMT -6
Interesting take. I’ve made a living off of plugins. Good on you… if I hired you to record me…I would want to record through a high end pre…and processed with hardware comps…my electric guitars tracked through real amps and api pres and EQs…. I would feel short changed if you brought up a UAD emulation I bought for $7 Not a problem, starts at around $600 a day in my market. I’m sure you’re a good guy, but I have generally found that clients who focus on the gear are the worst to work with because they miss the forest for the trees.
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Post by Dan on Apr 21, 2024 9:48:08 GMT -6
While still a huge hardware guy I have to say the reasons given to me by most of the working pros I know would say you got it ass backwards, recall and finding that sweet spot on hardware is the waste of time. Yes pretty much every plugin in chasing the tone of analog has left me wanting the analog, every Analog recreation of what a plugin can do has had the same effect. Understand for many this isn’t about chasing sonic nirvana, it’s about paying the rent, we normally don’t get paid by the hour but buy the project these days so if a plugin in can get closer to perfect quickly and get me back there quickly it’s not a waste of money it’s a money maker. I guess it all about the context…a home user doesn’t need 10 x 1176 plugins from loads of different developers….and cork sniff each one…but we buy them cause they’re only $29 or less…I’m guilty of it…I bought my last plugin in Jan 2023 and have no intention of buy another single one…the market is saturated and the a con in my opinion….strap an old scratched GUI on a rare hardware emulation …call it warm and fat in the marketing sprinkled with a bit of vintage vibe and you have a licence to print money… An 1176’s functionality cannot be easily recreated with a software circuit model. Meanwhile there are software compressors so fast and accurate at tracking transients, you can set them like an 1176 or even more aggressive so they sound like taking a flamethrower to drum hits where most collapse at under 3-5 ms attack or so. Skill issue. There are plugins built from one off hardware now like Phil’s Cascade and the Neold Big Al and Wunderlich. There are plugins modeling classic gear but expanded for more options like Cytomic the Scream, MJUC, Softube British Class A where you can tweak the distortions to work in situations where the hardware would be unable to because of the inherent distortion.
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Post by easyrider on Apr 21, 2024 11:50:16 GMT -6
Good on you… if I hired you to record me…I would want to record through a high end pre…and processed with hardware comps…my electric guitars tracked through real amps and api pres and EQs…. I would feel short changed if you brought up a UAD emulation I bought for $7 Not a problem, starts at around $600 a day in my market. I’m sure you’re a good guy, but I have generally found that clients who focus on the gear are the worst to work with because they miss the forest for the trees. I wouldn’t really be focused on gear…I’d just expect a base line when tracking…
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 21, 2024 13:48:33 GMT -6
Good on you… if I hired you to record me…I would want to record through a high end pre…and processed with hardware comps…my electric guitars tracked through real amps and api pres and EQs…. I would feel short changed if you brought up a UAD emulation I bought for $7 Not a problem, starts at around $600 a day in my market. I’m sure you’re a good guy, but I have generally found that clients who focus on the gear are the worst to work with because they miss the forest for the trees. I was referring to mixing, but exactly. I'll be glad to budget out a full studio and band for you.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 22, 2024 13:59:49 GMT -6
Good on you… if I hired you to record me…I would want to record through a high end pre…and processed with hardware comps…my electric guitars tracked through real amps and api pres and EQs…. I would feel short changed if you brought up a UAD emulation I bought for $7 Not a problem, starts at around $600 a day in my market. I’m sure you’re a good guy, but I have generally found that clients who focus on the gear are the worst to work with because they miss the forest for the trees. The worst records I've ever been involved in were ones where I came in (often it was my fault so I'll take the blame) with a technical idea of what we should do as opposed to an artistic idea. That's partly why I returned to my old DIY approach. A decade and a half of "we HAVE to record this to real tape!" and "this guy has a real M49!" did not result in better records than I got doing "hey let's just get to work instead of talking about work" or "this guy is fun to record with, let's work there."
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 17, 2024 11:56:28 GMT -6
Ok, so since I last posted did I stop buying plugs? The one word answer is, uh, no.
The more complicated answer is I mostly stopped buying stuff that aims to emulate analog pieces and moved onto clarity/dynamic eq/resonance hunters. To that end I loaded up on Neutron, Arbiter and Deres.
I did just pick up Koletnikov for $10 from plug-in boutique. I believe that goes to the end of the month.
I did buy the Kazrog Airline/Valco amp sim and an Ampeg B15. A couple reverb plugins as well. UA got me when the Atr-102 went native.
But I am at the point where Eventide has the SP2016 reverb on sale and I am holding off. And I have a get 2 plugin alliance for$40 and I just don’t really see two things I really want.
Are there things I still want? Maybe a phase fixer, but how much multi micing do I do? Almost none. Rx has a few tools that would come in handy but there are things like Acon that may work just as well for my needs.
I’m sure I missed a couple. Oh Metric A/B. That might be it.
For now, that’s what I got.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by drumsound on Aug 17, 2024 12:37:46 GMT -6
The SP2016 is a good sounding reverb and the user interface it really nice as well.
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 17, 2024 12:53:00 GMT -6
The SP2016 is a good sounding reverb and the user interface it really nice as well. Yeah I knew it had a good reputation, which is why I have kept it on my radar. But I already have an Eventide reverb, Softube Tsar, the UA 224, Sound City and Hitsville, a few plates, whatever’s in Logic, and the Quantum one went on sale before the 2016 did, so I picked that instead. If I can’t get it done with one of those? Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 17, 2024 12:58:11 GMT -6
Jeez Louise, I look at that list and think, a lot of the time I prefer delays to reverb.
Sigh, me.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 17, 2024 18:22:33 GMT -6
I can’t really stomach another reverb plug. If I’m being honest with myself, I don’t use half the plugs I buy.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 17, 2024 18:31:41 GMT -6
The SP2016 is a good sounding reverb and the user interface it really nice as well. Yeah I knew it had a good reputation, which is why I have kept it on my radar. But I already have an Eventide reverb, Softube Tsar, the UA 224, Sound City and Hitsville, a few plates, whatever’s in Logic, and the Quantum one went on sale before the 2016 did, so I picked that instead. If I can’t get it done with one of those? Cheers, Geoff The Quantum is about the only one I would add to my collection. I have way too many plugins as it is...
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 17, 2024 18:46:00 GMT -6
I can’t really stomach another reverb plug. If I’m being honest with myself, I don’t use half the plugs I buy. There are definitely things I got in bundles that I have never tried, let alone use. Plus learning things like Neutron that has a bazillion moving parts. Even though I have watched some walkthrough videos etc. I still have probably only scraped the surface of what I can do with it and I like to know how to use my tools instead of fumbling around. So, yeah instead of watching yet another video on it I need to hunker down and use it for an hour or three. Maybe click on some of Logic’s stock plugs that I have yet to try. I hear you, in other words. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 17, 2024 18:50:37 GMT -6
Yeah I knew it had a good reputation, which is why I have kept it on my radar. But I already have an Eventide reverb, Softube Tsar, the UA 224, Sound City and Hitsville, a few plates, whatever’s in Logic, and the Quantum one went on sale before the 2016 did, so I picked that instead. If I can’t get it done with one of those? Cheers, Geoff The Quantum is about the only one I would add to my collection. I have way too many plugins as it is... I haven’t used it a ton yet, but I liked it enough to buy it. The little I played with it I thought it sounded pretty good. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 18, 2024 17:07:42 GMT -6
Ok I again went through the plugin alliance list of plugs and I really didnt find much enthusiasm for anything I don’t already have. One of the Ssl strips maybe? Neold stuff. Don’t see it happening even at two for $40.
One thing I didn’t mention is a Flickinger strip. Acustica has one but I have been warned away from them on here. Otherwise take my money please if another one comes along.
Rx stuff that I can see using is the desqueak, dehum, declick, denoise, deverb, decicada etc. If I could just buy that suite of stuff I would. There are workarounds for some of that stuff, but the biggie is the untreated recording space. And trying to find something to make it less sucky. Yes, it is a bedroom. Renter, so no, other than throwing up blankets where I can, using the SM7, using more amp sims, sigh, monitoring and mixing with phones etc. not much acoustic treatment is going to happen. It is what it is. I would like the option of putting the ‘good’ mics up and doing what I can after the fact.
I guess that means fix it in the mix to an extent. Now this is almost entirely to feed my ego. Almost nobody else is going to even hear this. Perhaps I shouldn’t care. But I do.
I didn’t want to take Benny’s thread on the Steinberg Spectra thingy OT, so basically to unsuck my room a bit other than Rx, is there anything else I should be looking at?
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by bossanova on Aug 19, 2024 10:44:14 GMT -6
Ok I again went through the plugin alliance list of plugs and I really didnt find much enthusiasm for anything I don’t already have. One of the Ssl strips maybe? Neold stuff. Don’t see it happening even at two for $40. One thing I didn’t mention is a Flickinger strip. Acustica has one but I have been warned away from them on here. Otherwise take my money please if another one comes along. Rx stuff that I can see using is the desqueak, dehum, declick, denoise, deverb, decicada etc. If I could just buy that suite of stuff I would. There are workarounds for some of that stuff, but the biggie is the untreated recording space. And trying to find something to make it less sucky. Yes, it is a bedroom. Renter, so no, other than throwing up blankets where I can, using the SM7, using more amp sims, sigh, monitoring and mixing with phones etc. not much acoustic treatment is going to happen. It is what it is. I would like the option of putting the ‘good’ mics up and doing what I can after the fact. I guess that means fix it in the mix to an extent. Now this is almost entirely to feed my ego. Almost nobody else is going to even hear this. Perhaps I shouldn’t care. But I do. I didn’t want to take Benny’s thread on the Steinberg Spectra thingy OT, so basically to unsuck my room a bit other than Rx, is there anything else I should be looking at? Cheers, Geoff If the rooms are just too gnarly, and permanent solutions aren't in the cards, you can build a PVC pipe booth to hang 8 lb moving blankets and surround you 360° + overhead, completely collapsible and mobile. If you want a bit of extra "air" you can leave the front open. It's not going to be dry in the same way as a properly treated booth but it will definitely help with early reflections. Added - this is what mine looks like: Attachments:
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Post by doubledog on Aug 19, 2024 14:08:27 GMT -6
If the rooms are just too gnarly, and permanent solutions aren't in the cards, you can build a PVC pipe booth to hang 8 lb moving blankets and surround you 360° + overhead, completely collapsible and mobile. If you want a bit of extra "air" you can leave the front open. It's not going to be dry in the same way as a properly treated booth but it will definitely help with early reflections. Added - this is what mine looks like: yeah, that's great. I showed that concept to a sax player, who ended up building one for himself during the pandemic, so he could record in his apartment. I do similar "booths" with some portable gobos or mic stands (set a boom stand in a "T"), then throw some pieces of wood or pvc across the top and cover with the moving blankets (or not depending on how tight I want it, and how claustrophobic the person inside is...). it can work pretty well for iso while a live band is playing in the room, or for tightening up the sound for overdubs.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 19, 2024 14:22:27 GMT -6
Is the "Catty Cornering" essential? To fully "desqueak" a mouse? Chris
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Post by drumsound on Aug 19, 2024 19:02:25 GMT -6
Ok I again went through the plugin alliance list of plugs and I really didnt find much enthusiasm for anything I don’t already have. One of the Ssl strips maybe? Neold stuff. Don’t see it happening even at two for $40. One thing I didn’t mention is a Flickinger strip. Acustica has one but I have been warned away from them on here. Otherwise take my money please if another one comes along. Rx stuff that I can see using is the desqueak, dehum, declick, denoise, deverb, decicada etc. If I could just buy that suite of stuff I would. There are workarounds for some of that stuff, but the biggie is the untreated recording space. And trying to find something to make it less sucky. Yes, it is a bedroom. Renter, so no, other than throwing up blankets where I can, using the SM7, using more amp sims, sigh, monitoring and mixing with phones etc. not much acoustic treatment is going to happen. It is what it is. I would like the option of putting the ‘good’ mics up and doing what I can after the fact. I guess that means fix it in the mix to an extent. Now this is almost entirely to feed my ego. Almost nobody else is going to even hear this. Perhaps I shouldn’t care. But I do. I didn’t want to take Benny’s thread on the Steinberg Spectra thingy OT, so basically to unsuck my room a bit other than Rx, is there anything else I should be looking at? Cheers, Geoff There are a ton of things that are removable and the usable in your next space. Ok I again went through the plugin alliance list of plugs and I really didnt find much enthusiasm for anything I don’t already have. One of the Ssl strips maybe? Neold stuff. Don’t see it happening even at two for $40. One thing I didn’t mention is a Flickinger strip. Acustica has one but I have been warned away from them on here. Otherwise take my money please if another one comes along. Rx stuff that I can see using is the desqueak, dehum, declick, denoise, deverb, decicada etc. If I could just buy that suite of stuff I would. There are workarounds for some of that stuff, but the biggie is the untreated recording space. And trying to find something to make it less sucky. Yes, it is a bedroom. Renter, so no, other than throwing up blankets where I can, using the SM7, using more amp sims, sigh, monitoring and mixing with phones etc. not much acoustic treatment is going to happen. It is what it is. I would like the option of putting the ‘good’ mics up and doing what I can after the fact. I guess that means fix it in the mix to an extent. Now this is almost entirely to feed my ego. Almost nobody else is going to even hear this. Perhaps I shouldn’t care. But I do. I didn’t want to take Benny’s thread on the Steinberg Spectra thingy OT, so basically to unsuck my room a bit other than Rx, is there anything else I should be looking at? Cheers, Geoff If the rooms are just too gnarly, and permanent solutions aren't in the cards, you can build a PVC pipe booth to hang 8 lb moving blankets and surround you 360° + overhead, completely collapsible and mobile. If you want a bit of extra "air" you can leave the front open. It's not going to be dry in the same way as a properly treated booth but it will definitely help with early reflections. Added - this is what mine looks like: That's awesome. I did packing blankets in my booth for years before I altered it. Sometimes I made a booth in the live room.
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 22, 2024 13:33:54 GMT -6
Ok, have officially gone a month now without buying a plugin. That’s a first since I started this whole plugin splurge last Black Friday. The Electrodyne eq almost got me, as did the Eventide SP2016. And the Kazrog Langevin/Motown eq still has me intrigued but has the same eq points as the UA Motown one, so I can probably hold off on that too.
Have a friend coming over soon, will see how much room we can knock down with ad hoc blankets over doors and mic stands.
Otoh I did buy a guitar so I havent stopped spending money on music stuff. Not time for me to pat myself on the back yet.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 22, 2024 19:45:28 GMT -6
I haven't bought a plug-in in atleast a year but the DEMO'ing got me good again. UAD is slick with their technique of having you download everything and I recently used their SSL 4K on a track that I'm liking what its doing. Now I have to find a way to purchase it for as low as possible. That being said I did demo the unfairchild plug-in which I liked but I managed to uninstall it and not look back because 200$ for a plug I won't do anymore.
Also I think I will purchase the Tokyo Dawn filter pack when it goes on sale. And no more demo'ing UAD stuff for me! Too dangerous.
If any of you guys havent tried Airwindows plug-ins, please do, they are extremely useful and CPU friendly. (and free!) I have them all over my mixes these days. Plenty of amazing tools there. DeBess, ToTape6...
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 22, 2024 20:16:36 GMT -6
At this point Black Friday is coming up soon enough that any deal would have to be spectacular for me to bite. And even then?
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 23, 2024 1:15:28 GMT -6
I’d love Tchad Blake to mix my new album. He would be doing it with 100% plug-ins as he’s 100% ITB. It would sound stunning - it’s Tchad Blake! So skill, skill, skill …. gear choice is personal - skill is essential. My next two plug-ins are going to be …. That 8900 emulation by GML costs $400 but it is truly fantastic. The new Toontrack “State of the art” SDX as Elliot Scheiner has recorded some very sweet drums for Toontrack and who doesn’t love some Steely Dan snares I loved the recent UAD plug-ins so I’m looking forward to their next releases - if they can maintain the standard they raised to for the Hitsville plug-ins and the AMS DMX.
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