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Post by audiospecific on Jan 10, 2024 9:47:06 GMT -6
At that price what are they skimping out on? Because that is just the price of the tubes and some of the transformers
Wow - inflation truly is higher than I have imagined it to be - if you’re saying there is likely £700 + worth of parts in this unit! My boutique rack gear must be going up way faster than my money in the bank! This is good news 
6386 tube has been priced to an average of $200 each and there are 8 of them in a 670 circuit. The signal transformers for it are not cheap either compare to the ones in a mic pre card.
Quite frankly, I think I would design something like it but with other parts, because the tube compression parts isn't where it gets its coloring of the signal.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 10, 2024 14:57:06 GMT -6
Wow - inflation truly is higher than I have imagined it to be - if you’re saying there is likely £700 + worth of parts in this unit! My boutique rack gear must be going up way faster than my money in the bank! This is good news
6386 tube has been priced to an average of $200 each and there are 8 of them in a 670 circuit. The signal transformers for it are not cheap either compare to the ones in a mic pre card.
Quite frankly, I think I would design something like it but with other parts, because the tube compression parts isn't where it gets its coloring of the signal.
How can there be 8 tubes in this 500 series unit? Are we discussing the same unit. I’m referring to this mono 500 series unit - how many tubes and trafo’s has it got inside? |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Jan 10, 2024 16:39:10 GMT -6
6386 tube has been priced to an average of $200 each and there are 8 of them in a 670 circuit. The signal transformers for it are not cheap either compare to the ones in a mic pre card.
Quite frankly, I think I would design something like it but with other parts, because the tube compression parts isn't where it gets its coloring of the signal.
How can there be 8 tubes in this 500 series unit? Are we discussing the same unit. I’m referring to this mono 500 series unit - how many tubes and trafo’s has it got inside? This is a stereo compressor. Four tubes, three transformers. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 10, 2024 18:02:30 GMT -6
How can there be 8 tubes in this 500 series unit? Are we discussing the same unit. I’m referring to this mono 500 series unit - how many tubes and trafo’s has it got inside? This is a stereo compressor. Four tubes, three transformers. Well in that case - it seems more sensibly priced as it can go over the stereo bus. I checked the KMR advert at a glance and the stereo aspect wasn’t immediately obvious. I was put off by the price tag for a 500 series unit, though in retrospect my BAE 1073D costs more and is only mono! |
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Post by audiospecific on Jan 10, 2024 20:53:03 GMT -6
How can there be 8 tubes in this 500 series unit? Are we discussing the same unit. I’m referring to this mono 500 series unit - how many tubes and trafo’s has it got inside? This is a stereo compressor. Four tubes, three transformers.
I don't understand why they call it a 670 when its actually an altec compressor with semiconductor line stages.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Jan 10, 2024 21:58:43 GMT -6
This is a stereo compressor. Four tubes, three transformers.
I don't understand why they call it a 670 when it’s actually an altec compressor with semiconductor line stages.
If the time constants they quote int the manual are correct, this isn’t any Altec. My Altec is great, as long as you want slow. |
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Post by audiospecific on Jan 11, 2024 6:34:34 GMT -6
I don't understand why they call it a 670 when it’s actually an altec compressor with semiconductor line stages.
If the time constants they quote int the manual are correct, this isn’t any Altec. My Altec is great, as long as you want slow. Time constants are not a unique thing and can be changed. |
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timix
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Post by timix on Jan 11, 2024 7:22:05 GMT -6
Where would you put that gain control? Are you asking where the gain stage would go in the signal path, or where the knob would fit on the faceplate? Where it would go on the faceplate, there are not many options where an output control goes in the signal path. This would push the price up by a couple a hundred, at least. Do you know that original Fairchilds and most clones have no output level control? |
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timix
Full Member
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Post by timix on Jan 11, 2024 7:26:57 GMT -6
6386 tube has been priced to an average of $200 each and there are 8 of them in a 670 circuit. The signal transformers for it are not cheap either compare to the ones in a mic pre card.
Quite frankly, I think I would design something like it but with other parts, because the tube compression parts isn't where it gets its coloring of the signal.
You need THOSE tubes for it to compress like a 670, no one pays $35,000 plus just for its box tone. |
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Post by audiospecific on Jan 11, 2024 7:38:00 GMT -6
6386 tube has been priced to an average of $200 each and there are 8 of them in a 670 circuit. The signal transformers for it are not cheap either compare to the ones in a mic pre card.
Quite frankly, I think I would design something like it but with other parts, because the tube compression parts isn't where it gets its coloring of the signal.
You need THOSE tubes for it to compress like a 670, no one pays $35,000 plus just for its box tone. No, there are other ones. It is not that unique of a tube as they portray that. |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Jan 11, 2024 16:29:24 GMT -6
If the time constants they quote int the manual are correct, this isn’t any Altec. My Altec is great, as long as you want slow. Time constants are not a unique thing and can be changed. I would love to see my Altec achieve a 200 microsecond attack time! |
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hey212
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Posts: 61
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Post by hey212 on Jan 11, 2024 19:49:53 GMT -6
Are you asking where the gain stage would go in the signal path, or where the knob would fit on the faceplate? Where it would go on the faceplate, there are not many options where an output control goes in the signal path. This would push the price up by a couple a hundred, at least. Do you know that original Fairchilds and most clones have no output level control? For sure, it just seemed like there are obvious ways to fit an extra knob on the faceplate, such as making the gigantic input knob the same size as the other knobs, which would allow for two rows of two knobs. Regarding the original units, yes I did know they had no output control, and I also know they had no sidechain filter. In any case, fidelity to the original design went out the window long before they added the sidechain filter, as the entire circuit is a departure from the original. Given that fact, I'd be very happy to depart a fraction more by adding an output control for true A/B'ing. |
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Post by andersmv on Jan 12, 2024 0:12:20 GMT -6
Mine got here this afternoon. Starting to mess around with a mix and run some stuff through it. First initial reaction is that it really doesn’t like low end, you have to be especially careful on the mix bus or it will suck the low end out of your track. If you’re gentle with it and just try to get a little color and glue from it, it’s great. That line between good and way too much if pretty thin. On a full mix, it will start behaving in extreme ways if you try to push much past 3 dB of compression. Go gentle on the mix bus and don’t expect anything crazy.
Individual tracks have been a lot nicer. Running a vocal through it was really nice, sounded great. I pushed some drum rooms really hard through it with the DC set more towards limiting and turned the input almost all the way up (it’s on an insert on my console, so was able to drive the input hard and bring a fader down before it went back in). Honestly one of the better room comps I’ve used, probably worth the price of admission alone just for that.
Have not gotten to acoustic instruments yet. Still a lot to explore, but so far a pretty positive experience.
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 12, 2024 6:04:38 GMT -6
Mine got here this afternoon. Starting to mess around with a mix and run some stuff through it. First initial reaction is that it really doesn’t like low end, you have to be especially careful on the mix bus or it will suck the low end out of your track. If you’re gentle with it and just try to get a little color and glue from it, it’s great. That line between good and way too much if pretty thin. On a full mix, it will start behaving in extreme ways if you try to push much past 3 dB of compression. Go gentle on the mix bus and don’t expect anything crazy. Individual tracks have been a lot nicer. Running a vocal through it was really nice, sounded great. I pushed some drum rooms really hard through it with the DC set more towards limiting and turned the input almost all the way up (it’s on an insert on my console, so was able to drive the input hard and bring a fader down before it went back in). Honestly one of the better room comps I’ve used, probably worth the price of admission alone just for that. Have not gotten to acoustic instruments yet. Still a lot to explore, but so far a pretty positive experience. So would the verdict so far be they should have made a mono of it rather than a stereo? A channel comp rather than bus comp? Probably for most users today a vari mu will end up as bus or mastering comp. Just starting to think if not 2 of these www.igsaudio.com/tc500# would make more bang for the buck at the end of the day. As neither is an fairchild clone exactly? |
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Post by andersmv on Jan 12, 2024 8:00:07 GMT -6
There’s no way they could have made a mono unit out of this with the tubes and transformers they chose, just not enough physical space in one unit. They barely fit what they had in the 2 slot, really great design looking inside. I’m sure that was tough. It sucks I can’t really use it as a mono unit during tracking (it doesn’t seem to trigger correctly if you send a signal to just one side), but it’s easy enough to send a mono track to both inputs later and just print one side.
If you really wanted to track a single vocal through it or something, you could always get a mic splitter or Y Cable and go into both sides so it triggers correctly, and then record one side of it back in. I did that on vocals with my HendyAmps Pollock all the time through a radial splitter.
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Post by audiospecific on Jan 12, 2024 9:03:54 GMT -6
Time constants are not a unique thing and can be changed. I would love to see my Altec achieve a 200 microsecond attack time! I could definitely modify it but I would have to look up all the parts for the attack control I would have to put in as well as the bias modifications. To give you a quote on how much I would charge to modify it. But that is possible. |
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hey212
Junior Member
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Post by hey212 on Jan 12, 2024 10:38:07 GMT -6
Mine got here this afternoon. Starting to mess around with a mix and run some stuff through it. First initial reaction is that it really doesn’t like low end, you have to be especially careful on the mix bus or it will suck the low end out of your track. Thanks for sharing your feedback, looking forward to the video review! In terms of your observation about the low end, was that with the sidechain filter out, in at 100hz 12dB/octave, or in at 100hz 24dB/octave? |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 12, 2024 11:01:18 GMT -6
I would love to see my Altec achieve a 200 microsecond attack time! I could definitely modify it but I would have to look up all the parts for the attack control I would have to put in as well as the bias modifications. To give you a quote on how much I would charge to modify it. But that is possible. See - Chandler RS660. The basic 436 is reported frequently to motorboat when attack gets a lot faster. The power in the attack of a real 660/670 is the 10+ watt power amp driving the side chain. An altec 436 simply can’t perform in the same manner with it’s 1/4W rated output. |
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Post by audiospecific on Jan 12, 2024 20:57:01 GMT -6
I could definitely modify it but I would have to look up all the parts for the attack control I would have to put in as well as the bias modifications. To give you a quote on how much I would charge to modify it. But that is possible. See - Chandler RS660. The basic 436 is reported frequently to motorboat when attack gets a lot faster. The power in the attack of a real 660/670 is the 10+ watt power amp driving the side chain. An altec 436 simply can’t perform in the same manner with it’s 1/4W rated output.
You have to modify the bias or else it would do that. The version I make with those agc tubes has a buffer instead of just peeling it off the output stage but its not necessary needed to modify it.
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Post by paulcheeba on Jan 12, 2024 23:27:50 GMT -6
Mine got here this afternoon. First initial reaction is that it really doesn’t like low end, you have to be especially careful on the mix bus or it will suck the low end out of your track. That’s not great. I do like the idea of room sound but my pair of periscopes will cover that amongst other stuff. I wonder what it’s like next to a Wes Rhea? |
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Post by andersmv on Jan 13, 2024 7:56:24 GMT -6
Mine got here this afternoon. First initial reaction is that it really doesn’t like low end, you have to be especially careful on the mix bus or it will suck the low end out of your track. That’s not great. I do like the idea of room sound but my pair of periscopes will cover that amongst other stuff. I wonder what it’s like next to a Wes Rhea? I don’t know if it’s really a bad thing, it could be useful at times for taming excessive low end. There’s just a point where that low end starts to be less punchy when there’s a lot going on (you can hear it on the YouTube shorts that Heritage posted when they’re hitting the unit harder on drum bus). It’s just something to be aware of, I liked how it sounded hitting about 3 dB of compression at the most on louder spots on a country rock mix, things definitely sounded much more boring when I bypassed it. I’ve got it on the master bus insert on my API console, so I’m able to drive the grandchild input stage as hard as I want and bring things down with the master fader on my console. When turning the DC Threshold all the way to the left, you have to have a really strong signal going into it in order to get any compression. I got an absolutely amazing tone on some drum rooms, but I had to turn the input on the Grandchild almost all the way up, as well as the normal ac threshold with the DC threshold turned more counter clockwise. If I wouldn’t have had the master fader on my console to compensate down on the output, my converters would have been clipping like crazy. They probably should have fit an output on this to get the most out of it. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 13, 2024 8:13:26 GMT -6
With so many fantastic 19" Vari-MU rack units about - what is the attraction of a 500 series stereo unit relying on a 3rd party 500 chassis PSU, smaller/ lesser controls, less features etc.
Are people really short on studio space?
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Post by andersmv on Jan 13, 2024 9:16:02 GMT -6
With so many fantastic 19" Vari-MU rack units about - what is the attraction of a 500 series stereo unit relying on a 3rd party 500 chassis PSU, smaller/ lesser controls, less features etc. Are people really short on studio space? It looks good in my API Console and makes me feel like a real boy  . Joking aside... 500 series are usually a good chunk cheaper than the rack gear equivalent. Make the investment once in the power unit and add to it gradually at a nice discount. And yes, honestly some people are short on space. The mini split system at my studio has been out for over a month now waiting for the part, it's 20 degrees F outside right now and it's freaking cold. I've had to cram an upright piano and make shift booth into my control room and set up a small space heater so I could do a few sessions with people. It's really tight in here, so I have a new found appreciation for when people say "I'm short on space".... It adds up over time, and it's not like there's a lot of options out there that let you cram 8-10 channels into a couple of U rack space (especially if you're setting up a mobile rig). |
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 13, 2024 14:15:55 GMT -6
I agree on most of the points on 500 series convenience over rack. Cost, space etc. and in many units you can actually crum the 19” equivalent into a 500 unit and all is hunky dory. But with tube gear I am not fully convinced yet. Space, heat and sometimes power consumption are tough to accommodate. I do not own any 500 series, so I might be all wrong. But just from following threads over the years I have got that impression.
i mean, as long as you don't need to compromise for it to be a 500 vs 19”, it’s just great. But the grandchild just leaves me with a feeling that it is a compromise… therefore a 19” would be a better deal here maybe? Am i wrong?
igs made an interesting choice in their rubber bands eq. The 19” version is a tube unit and the 500 series is non-tube. Both sounds great, a little different, but great. That’s another way to go about it with maybe less compromise in the end.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 14, 2024 5:05:42 GMT -6
I agree on most of the points on 500 series convenience over rack. Cost, space etc. and in many units you can actually crum the 19” equivalent into a 500 unit and all is hunky dory. But with tube gear I am not fully convinced yet. Space, heat and sometimes power consumption are tough to accommodate. I do not own any 500 series, so I might be all wrong. But just from following threads over the years I have got that impression. i mean, as long as you don't need to compromise for it to be a 500 vs 19”, it’s just great. But the grandchild just leaves me with a feeling that it is a compromise… therefore a 19” would be a better deal here maybe? Am i wrong? igs made an interesting choice in their rubber bands eq. The 19” version is a tube unit and the 500 series is non-tube. Both sounds great, a little different, but great. That’s another way to go about it with maybe less compromise in the end. I don't have a very big room but have three racks full of hardware - most of it tube. I have a 500 series rack unit with solid state pre's and EQ's in it - it is a cute compact format for sure. But I've yet to hear a tube 500 series unit that convinced me it sounds better than it's full sized equivalent with a large dedicated power supply not relying on voltage switching etc. Perhaps Heritage are making progress with this 500 series unit? - that said I didn't care for their CL1B clone and that was 19" rack - so 19" format isn't necessarily a passport to greatness either! |
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. Joking aside... 500 series are usually a good chunk cheaper than the rack gear equivalent. Make the investment once in the power unit and add to it gradually at a nice discount. And yes, honestly some people are short on space. The mini split system at my studio has been out for over a month now waiting for the part, it's 20 degrees F outside right now and it's freaking cold. I've had to cram an upright piano and make shift booth into my control room and set up a small space heater so I could do a few sessions with people. It's really tight in here, so I have a new found appreciation for when people say "I'm short on space".... It adds up over time, and it's not like there's a lot of options out there that let you cram 8-10 channels into a couple of U rack space (especially if you're setting up a mobile rig).