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Post by drbill on Oct 12, 2023 10:23:38 GMT -6
Yup. No doubt about it. Modern recording takes the skill level necessary for entrance down a notch....or 500. Whether or not you're experienced and can do it the old fashioned way or not. Many of todays musicians could not compete in an all tape world. I know for SURE it makes me lazy.
There was something brilliant about getting 5-8 top notch musicians all in the same room, all shooting for perfection, all dependent on one another to get a keeper take. The magic of that is long gone. While I certainly appreciate the modern way, there is zero doubt that I miss the old way.
Easier is not always better. Perfection is not always preferred.
But now were getting waaaay off topic.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 12, 2023 10:41:31 GMT -6
Yup. No doubt about it. Modern recording takes the skill level necessary for entrance down a notch....or 500. Whether or not you're experienced and can do it the old fashioned way or not. Many of todays musicians could not compete in an all tape world. I know for SURE it makes me lazy. There was something brilliant about getting 5-8 top notch musicians all in the same room, all shooting for perfection, all dependent on one another to get a keeper take. The magic of that is long gone. While I certainly appreciate the modern way, there is zero doubt that I miss the old way. Easier is not always better. Perfection is not always preferred. But now were getting waaaay off topic. The biggest difference, when asked “ can you fix that ?” A simple “no, sorry you are going to have to play it again was exceptable. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 12, 2023 11:09:36 GMT -6
Well, it's still possible to get a group of great musicians in a good room, it just takes the will and usually quite a bit of money. Chris Stapleton does it, but it's certainly the exception to the rule. I would love to do basic tracks with a few guys in a room and then do overdubs, vocals and mixing at home. That way at least the spark of energy and authenticity is there at the beginning.
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 12, 2023 12:01:57 GMT -6
Well, it's still possible to get a group go great musicians in a good room, it just takes the will and usually quite a bit of money. Chris Stapleton does it, but it's certainly the exception to the rule. I would love to do basic tracks with a few guys in a room and then do overdubs, vocals and mixing at home. That way at least the spark of energy and authenticity is there at the beginning. I would say actually every dave cobb production does it, including stapleton. I would call it quite a significant new wave in terms of how to produce in the 2020’s. Anything that goes thru RCA A today is phenomenal, be it stapleton, rival sons, carlile, u name it. |
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Post by ragan on Oct 12, 2023 12:08:05 GMT -6
Agreed.
re: getting good, rehearsed musicians in a room and getting Keeper Live Take energy going…
You “can” still do it, you just don’t have to do it, therefore, fewer and fewer people “can”.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 12, 2023 12:23:36 GMT -6
Well, it's still possible to get a group go great musicians in a good room, it just takes the will and usually quite a bit of money. Chris Stapleton does it, but it's certainly the exception to the rule. I would love to do basic tracks with a few guys in a room and then do overdubs, vocals and mixing at home. That way at least the spark of energy and authenticity is there at the beginning. It’s also about the time, I guess that’s money as well but you have to convince everyone the investment is worth it. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 12, 2023 12:38:36 GMT -6
That's true Eric. I had a band very close to a deal once. The players were great, had been with major artists and bands, but I just couldn't afford to keep paying the band to keep it together.
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Post by kelk on Oct 12, 2023 12:53:49 GMT -6
Coming from a jazz background playing it live together is the only way I grew up doing it, and the way it still happens. Very grateful for that perspective on things.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 12, 2023 13:41:21 GMT -6
It really became a slippery slope, I remember sitting in a session years ago, back when pitch correction meant one note at a time with a H3000. We had this singer who did a lot of commercial work and we’re trying to decide whether to have her cut it again or fix it. The billable time probably wouldn’t have been that different for the couple notes, but the choice in the booth was to simply have her do a couple more take’s because if we fixed these she would know we could do it and eventually she would expect us to just fix it, you know where we are at in a world where everyone knows we have Autotune.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Oct 12, 2023 14:15:56 GMT -6
I started my first studio in 1972, and to this day...
NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, will ever equal the visceral impact, or emotion, of a artist (band) performing live in the studio together.
And when they get the take, man, it's a feeling like no other!
You're literally high, and it's palpable, everyone in the room feels it, not just the musicians!
Probably why I'm still doing it...because it ain't for the $$$ that's for sure.
SIMPLY AMAZING.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 20:42:10 GMT -6
It really became a slippery slope, I remember sitting in a session years ago, back when pitch correction meant one note at a time with a H3000. We had this singer who did a lot of commercial work and we’re trying to decide whether to have her cut it again or fix it. The billable time probably wouldn’t have been that different for the couple notes, but the choice in the booth was to simply have her do a couple more take’s because if we fixed these she would know we could do it and eventually she would expect us to just fix it, you know where we are at in a world where everyone knows we have Autotune. Autotune or Melodyne became a defacto when I started Eric and this is 20+ years ago. I'm so used to the sound that sometimes when I listen to nights in white satin all I can focus on is how out of tune they are. Although it's become nothing more than another smoke and mirrors part of production, IME you still need to be an excellent singer to use either and it's just an enhancement but for those who can't sing tuning just brings a world of extremely potent artifacts and an obvious statement that vocals aren't for you.
Then again some have thrived on robotic sounding vox.
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Post by paulnajar on Oct 12, 2023 22:08:41 GMT -6
Enjoying this thread…
I did many hundreds of keyboard sessions in all the biggest studios in Sydney in the 1980s/ 90s- mainly because I was really across the latest midi tech and sequencing, could program sounds and also play well. I used to seriously dislike how all my stereo synths always got rationalised down to mono as they were trying to get it all onto 2 inch 24 track. Meanwhile at home I had a 4 track cassette recorder where I sacrificed a track for time code so I could sync my sequencer to the tape and run the keyboard recordings from MIDI and mix it all together with the each keyboard coming in stereo. Sounded so much better! Then when we tracked vocals we would lay up 3 tracks of backing vocals, mix them down to stereo and throw them into the sampler and trigger the vocals by a midi event to free up the tape tracks and record more and more vocals.
Of course this was pre computer DAW’s so today with all the amazing tools like limitless tracks, being able to record any live instruments without limitations and have them live alongside midi tracks like it’s nothing, virtual instruments with no MIDI timing issues, digital plugins in so many shapes and sizes and now in the past few years my journey back to mixing hybrid with lots of 500 series and other analog, my impossible dreams that would never come true 30 years ago are now my daily reality. What an age! I wouldn’t want to go back to the way it was.
It’s easy to find evidence in the would of shitty human behaviour and get down about it but in this bubble I have nothing but gratitude.
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 13, 2023 1:39:23 GMT -6
It’s a different result.
My current band are all fabulous players - top notch.
I could get them all in a room together and cut tracks like that but these days I prefer getting the drums down first then moving onto bass etc.
I write and arrange all the music, and I prefer the results of building a track this way, it’s more flexible at the over dubbing stages.
I think it comes from a mentality of “it’s always a work in progress” and the creative process is very fluid right up to cutting the the first mix, I might be about to do a mix and we’ll re-do a bass part or some new keyboard voicing a jump out - I love the fluidity of working this way.
But it’s genre specific and if it’s a different project like a jazz trio or something bluesy or folky - in other words organic and traditional then I way prefer cutting a band in a room.
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Post by theshea on Oct 13, 2023 6:01:34 GMT -6
i had bands playing/recording as a unit. great as it sounds, it also can be a complete nightmare if they are not good enough or if they later want to change something. they - most of the time - think they can change everything just like on a overdub recording session … the fix it later mentality is too present with everyone today.
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