|
|
Post by aremos on Dec 13, 2023 17:04:33 GMT -6
John,
Just PM'd you & I dragged a screen shot into the message but seems it didn't go through.
Where is the upload for messages?
|
|
|
|
Post by bluesholyman on Dec 13, 2023 17:33:14 GMT -6
Just get another perpetual. I do it (upgrade) every 6 years. I'm on PT 2019. They sent me a notice offering for $400+. I'll just wait another 2 years. Would never do any subscription. Actually, just checked, & it's $399. for Perpetual.
Where? I see $599 at Sweetwater for perpetual Studio. I think you’re seeing the ultimate yearly extortion price. It is no less confusing. The Ultimate for $400 is for existing Ultimate Perpetual license holders. From what I saw on Sweetwaters website, to reinstate a perpectual studio license, its $600. The ultimate perpectual price is $1500 - that just seems nuts, but I guess if you use it at that level, you need that. I kept my Sweetwater guy on the phone for a soild 30 mintues going over all this before mine expired and he pretty much said safest route is to have a perpetual and keep it. Update when needed, but don't go back to a subscription. Of course, Avid with its new ownership could change all this again in 6 months. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 13, 2023 17:45:27 GMT -6
Yeah...I'm just gonna buy the Studio perpetual (again) that's listed at $599. Then I think the yearly price is like $199 for updates and support instead of $299.
|
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Dec 13, 2023 18:02:34 GMT -6
I've had PT 10 since forever John; it's been rock solid but now I've an M2 which I can either get a new perpetual PT 12 for or just use the free Luna which I may well do. Whatever, PT on a reliable system did what I needed and worked out to around $70 AUD a year give or take.
My point is , if the version is reliable why update all the time?
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Dec 13, 2023 18:42:16 GMT -6
Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems kind of rough when you look at the situation right now. I also remember some sort of increased cost (though we could collectively be wrong?) that meant paying more to keep your perpetual license with a year or something of updates. Then Avid was essentially threatened that reinstatement packages were being removed from the market... IE - if you had Pro Tools 9, 10, 11 but did not have an update plan, you would have to spend something like 350 USD (for studio) or so, to get your perpetual license updated to Pro Tools Studio with a year of updates. The threat was that if your plan expired, you would not be able to update again UNLESS they offered that perpetual license reinstatement SKU again.
Now, if you look, the Update and Reinstatement SKU seem to be identical, so..... huh?
Around the same period of time this was all going on you also had Avid working on Native Apple Silicon support, so the issue of having an expired plan and not getting that support felt real. So if I can still trust my memory, I'm sure there were groups of PT Users that basically found themselves looking at two options: A) Pay extra to retain your perpetual license, knowing you may still have to pay for another year or two before things are back to a happy stable platform to stop updating on... or B) Pay Less and go year-by-year.
Fast-forward to this specific point in time, and, at least with holiday sales going on, the subscription is now more expensive than the reinstatement/1-year update SKU. which makes sense so far as "owners" paying less than "subscribers"... but I don't think that's how it worked prior.
Don't get me wrong, I still only run PT and I will probably never jump ship, but I certainly understand the issues people have.
edit: John, do you happen to have an old Pro Tools license on a separate iLok account? If you have that, I think you can just reinstate/update for $199.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 13, 2023 18:57:58 GMT -6
I've had PT 10 since forever John; it's been rock solid but now I've an M2 which I can either get a new perpetual PT 12 for or just use the free Luna which I may well do. Whatever, PT on a reliable system did what I needed and worked out to around $70 AUD a year give or take. My point is , if the version is reliable why update all the time? Cheers, Ross I agree. Problem is, I apparently traded in my perpetual license in 2019. I didn’t really know what I was doing and honestly thought I was buying the support and updates. Apparently the deal was, trade in the perp license and get the new version and two years of support/updates I guess? So I can’t even open PT now. Guess I’m just going to bite the bullet and buy another perpetual at $599 (I got a quote for $540). That way I’ll at least have the option in the years to come. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2023 12:35:44 GMT -6
OK, Avid....
Tried to charge my card for Studio renewal at $299 full year....the month to month pricing. I go to marketplace, I can pay the full year for $239. WTF.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2023 13:06:17 GMT -6
I had to spend $550 for a completely new license.
|
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2023 13:42:37 GMT -6
Correct. But, as opposed to subscription, you keep using it for as long (years) as you want. Of course, based on how fast things change with compatibility, third party plugs & serious upgrades, it's not as long as it used to be but still worth it. Same with Waves. But the but is, all your current software and os will likely work fine for years, so don’t upgrade anything until you absolutely have too say os and daw incompatibilit. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
|
Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2023 14:18:20 GMT -6
People have to understand people come and go, though there is a group of us who would probably end up in a text chain if this place disappeared) it is easy to blame politics or economics but in most cases life happens, it just that simple and complicated.
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 31, 2023 6:35:44 GMT -6
HDX engine was inexistent for modern mixing until 2021 when Avid finally admitted that AAX DSP was dead on arrival and implemented the hybrid engine. Now HDX cards work more like UAD Apollos and Metric Halo interface dsp but it’s a bit more centralized and runs part of the computer daw on the interface. Native daws are perfectly reliable for recording large amounts of simultaneous tracks. That is not a cpu demanding application or even a demand on the i/o busses of a computer since PCI, FireWire, and USB 2. The biggest issue is the quality and speed of interface drivers. Avid’s own are not particular fast. Avid should have never developed HDX and should have ditched the antiquated Motorola DSP chip based TDM sooner. They should’ve just written key features into native pro tools, written iron clad system requirements into the program, and written low latency drivers but that still evades them when they should’ve done it back in the FireWire days. A HDX rig has never really been about DSP power for mixing, it's about having the lowest latency tracking and seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts. Two invaluable things once you've experienced them. I know there are other DAWS out there that meet the needs of their user base but I'm more surprised no one else has made a better DSP Card based system to compete with Avid as opposed to Avid trying to emulate the native based DAWs. For all the things there are to like about Studio One, Logic, Luna, etc.., none of them have put together something to actually compete with Avid across the board if you're doing a lot of tracking and hybrid mixing. I made two pretty serious attempts to switch DAWs over the years and both times I came away appreciating Pro Tools a lot more. It's just fashionable to knock it for whatever reason. I think DAW choice comes down to the situation the user finds himself using it. If you're a commercial studio taking in projects from far and wide then using the industry standard session format is an imperative. It's a system lending itself to recording real instruments in great rooms by small and large groups of musicians in real time. But I do think it's a red herring to say HDX is now here in 2024 about reliable low latency and seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts. Native DAW's like Cubase/Nuendo have actually better seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts because they can ping the hardware and automatically compensate and save the delay and it's done for future reference - unbelievably ime PT still lacks this fundamental feature and needs to be done manually (unless this has changed recently and been added?) Pro Tools HDX great strength is two fold .... 1. It's the industry equivalent of a roll of 24 track 2" tape - in other words the industry std for sharing projects. 2. It's a scalable professional system - you can go from 1x HDX card to huge rigs with huge I/O connected to huge uber expensive control surfaces like a fully expanded S6 ($250,000!) it's capable of been used in the most highly demanding professional environments (where Cubase Pro 13 and a Faderport 16 would virtually be a toy!) Now if you're a composer using MIDI instruments and only a limited number of real instruments the picture changes. I use Roland TD-50x/ Drum Tec E Drums to record drum tracks and now Cubase's sophisticated Drum Editor allows for control and editing Pro Tools simply cannot offer. The same for low latency handling of VI's in general, MIDI Expression maps, Logical MIDI Editor .... it's a very long list of superior MIDI tools. 10 years ago composers had to transfer MIDI compositions to Pro Tools to finish projects. Fortunately, Steinberg have given Cubase Composers updated and sophisticated audio tools (the Cubase mixer now has more features than even Pro Tools) and so us humple composers songwriters can remain in Cubase and finish projects to a high standard. We're not sharing with anyone and it's an in house cottage industry approach. I'm not at all a fan of Pro Tools software I find it very clunky and 1990's in it's GUI. However, my semi-retirement plan is a little commercial studio and so I've started (slightly reluctantly due to my age) to properly learn the app (it's a 2024 goal) as I know in a few years time I'm going to have to use Pro Tools if I want to start taking on projects from far and wide. I'm sure once I'm familiar with the app, my attitude to it will soften and I'll become more positive about using it. |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Dec 31, 2023 10:02:22 GMT -6
]But I do think it's a red herring to say HDX is now here in 2024 about reliable low latency and seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts. Native DAW's like Cubase/Nuendo have actually better seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts because they can ping the hardware and automatically compensate and save the delay and it's done for future reference - unbelievably ime PT still lacks this fundamental feature and needs to be done manually (unless this has changed recently and been added?) HDX + Pro Tools ultimate automatically does delay compensation. There’s no ping or saving ping results, it just works. No matter the sample rate, etc… |
|
|
|
Post by engineermoney on Dec 31, 2023 10:26:53 GMT -6
Does buying avid carbon interface + protools studio give you automatic delay comp?
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 31, 2023 10:46:08 GMT -6
]But I do think it's a red herring to say HDX is now here in 2024 about reliable low latency and seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts. Native DAW's like Cubase/Nuendo have actually better seamless delay compensation for hardware inserts because they can ping the hardware and automatically compensate and save the delay and it's done for future reference - unbelievably ime PT still lacks this fundamental feature and needs to be done manually (unless this has changed recently and been added?) HDX + Pro Tools ultimate automatically does delay compensation. There’s no ping or saving ping results, it just works. No matter the sample rate, etc… I see, yes that is a further advantage for a studio patching in and out many different pieces of changing out board - visiting engineers etc.. For a place like mine setting up Cubase with my outboard racks is a one time very quick job. Set and forget ….. but of course I’m not changing my rack gear session to session so it’s a non issue for me. |
|
|
|
Post by subspace on Dec 31, 2023 11:23:33 GMT -6
Does buying avid carbon interface + protools studio give you automatic delay comp? Yes. |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Dec 31, 2023 11:27:12 GMT -6
HDX + Pro Tools ultimate automatically does delay compensation. There’s no ping or saving ping results, it just works. No matter the sample rate, etc… I see, yes that is a further advantage for a studio patching in and out many different pieces of changing out board - visiting engineers etc.. For a place like mine setting up Cubase with my outboard racks is a one time very quick job. Set and forget ….. but of course I’m not changing my rack gear session to session so it’s a non issue for me. Doesn't the ping change though when you use different sample rates? Do you have to save delay calculations for every sample rate? |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 31, 2023 11:51:20 GMT -6
I need to just dump everything and get a Carbon...
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2023 12:41:23 GMT -6
I need to just dump everything and get a Carbon... Probably, but I keep seeing the occasional really good deal here and there on HDX cards, and Omni interfaces. |
|
|
|
Post by damoongo on Dec 31, 2023 15:43:06 GMT -6
Aren't most plugin devs only making AAX native versions? (No HDX DSP versions?) So, for zero latency tracking, you're stuck with a very limited selection of plugs?
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 31, 2023 15:59:10 GMT -6
Are the plugs different in 2023?
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 31, 2023 16:01:56 GMT -6
How does the carbon adda compare to the UA stuff?
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Dec 31, 2023 16:45:32 GMT -6
I’ve wondered about Carbon as well.
A few years ago, a buddy and I did blind loop back tests with Symphony MKII, BF Apollo, and the current gen Avid HDX interface. We ranked it Symphony -> Apollo -> HDX. But Carbon is newer than that unit we tested.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 31, 2023 17:25:26 GMT -6
Well, I guess Carbon is a no go. It has no Spdif or aes connections.
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Dec 31, 2023 17:52:51 GMT -6
Yeah it has weird connectivity
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 31, 2023 18:00:01 GMT -6
I see, yes that is a further advantage for a studio patching in and out many different pieces of changing out board - visiting engineers etc.. For a place like mine setting up Cubase with my outboard racks is a one time very quick job. Set and forget ….. but of course I’m not changing my rack gear session to session so it’s a non issue for me. Doesn't the ping change though when you use different sample rates? Do you have to save delay calculations for every sample rate? Josh, I always work at 48KHz so I'm not sure if it would need re pinging? Even if it did, Cubase can save that as another set of recallable parameters but it wouldn't be automatic. HDX is far more sophisticated in that respect. |
|
