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Post by timcampbell on Aug 28, 2023 19:36:58 GMT -6
What year Paul? I mean you are really grabbing at straws.
Paul I wish you so good health that you get to be as old as me.
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 28, 2023 19:44:06 GMT -6
Well if you’re buying a Flea in this day and age be vigilant. They don’t make ‘em like they used to.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 28, 2023 19:49:40 GMT -6
From Flea website, January 6, 2022: This mic is an exact replica of C12 and involves a modern style power supply with integrated pattern switch. As standard, it is equipped with Tim Campbell's CT12 capsule - great choice if you are considering the clones of original CK12. The mic is equipped with 6072 tube. The transformer is our own replica of original . Considering the sound, it is simply "Rolls-Royce". In some applications this mic will seem somewhat neutral, but it benefits will stand out during mixdown. It's fantastic for vocals, acoustic instruments as well as ambient miking. Those, who have not experienced, will not believe.
Same as today, same in 2020.
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Post by ragan on Aug 28, 2023 20:19:07 GMT -6
However you justify it they are using inferior methods and materials over time as the market consumes the NOS parts. People need to lower their expectations now. That’s all. Wait, but it very much matters whether Flea led you to believe you were getting something that you didn’t. Right? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 28, 2023 21:14:08 GMT -6
False advertising, is what it is, if you are paying for a premium mike and tube, that’s what you should get. Like buying a ferrari and finding it has a fiesta engine: fail  Except that a tube is viewed as a component and that pesky little disclaimer that everybody puts up “ speculations are subject to change without notice.” Is it fair ? Hell no, but it gives legal cover under the US commerce code. Should dealer adjust or except return if you’re unhappy? god yes, but because of that pesky little disclaimer it isn’t technically false advertising under the law. Not trying to be a downer just telling it like it is. Of course your credit card company has more power than any of us and can really make things difficult for the seller. They just may take your side. If you ever feel like having extra protection use Amex, even the prepaid Amex cards, they really really like siding with customers taking the money back from sellers and sitting on it for 30 days, but they do fight for you. |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 28, 2023 21:21:04 GMT -6
Well Paul I think you must be being mistreated by your retailer. I just received an Ela M 251 and the build quality is exceptional.
Is this a thread about lying about a tube or poor build quality?
Paul in your comments it seems you may have misunderstood this statement. I am not calling you a liar. I am asking you if this is a thread about FLEA lying to you or is this a thread about their build quality? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 28, 2023 21:25:03 GMT -6
Well Paul I think you must be being mistreated by your retailer. I just received an Ela M 251 and the build quality is exceptional.
Is this a thread about lying about a tube or poor build quality?
Tim just out of curiosity, if you and a manufacturer decide to cut ties do you have it written in to your original agreement that within x amount of time they must remove any references to you in all marketing materials? I know a couple of driver manufacturers who have implemented this because of all the Chinese copies. Unfortunately I can’t reveal who they are. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 28, 2023 21:32:50 GMT -6
However you justify it they are using inferior methods and materials over time as the market consumes the NOS parts. People need to lower their expectations now. That’s all. If I'm buying a top tier microphone from Flea, Heiserman, Upton or another reputable microphone manufacturer which has (in the recent past) made claims about using the highest quality components in these 5 star mics, I expect a 5-star vacuum valve/tube. anything less is a form of fraud. There are plenty of 5-star GE 6072 glass bottles around. Your nearest bowie can help you find them. I collect valves or tubes and I have good dealers who don’t deliver noisy tubes or cheap Russian ones. It’s possible to blame the dealers but Flea are doing nothing to stop the out of date sales blurb circulating. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 28, 2023 21:37:25 GMT -6
If I'm buying a top tier microphone from Flea, Heiserman, Upton or another reputable microphone manufacturer which has (in the recent past) made claims about using the highest quality components in these 5 star mics, I expect a 5-star vacuum valve/tube. anything less is a form of fraud. There are plenty of 5-star GE 6072 glass bottles around. Your nearest bowie can help you find them. I collect valves or tubes and I have good dealers who don’t deliver noisy tubes or cheap Russian ones. It’s possible to blame the dealers but Flea are doing nothing to stop the out of date sales blurb circulating. They might not have any power to, most dealers don’t ad anything to discourage such practices until they get burned. You also have to remember nobody wants to cut a dealer who even if they seam a bit dodgy, plus most dealers have credit terms so you really don’t want to cut someone who owes you money. Unless of course your reason for cutting them off is they are way passed due. |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 28, 2023 21:42:58 GMT -6
Well Paul I think you must be being mistreated by your retailer. I just received an Ela M 251 and the build quality is exceptional.
Is this a thread about lying about a tube or poor build quality?
Tim just out of curiosity, if you and a manufacturer decide to cut ties do you have it written in to your original agreement that within x amount of time they must remove any references to you in all marketing materials? I know a couple of driver manufacturers who have implemented this because of all the Chinese copies. Unfortunately I can’t reveal who they are. Yes Eric. I make sure that if their product doesn't contain my capsule that they no longer use my name.
About the things that retailers themselves post, a manufacturer should be dilligent about making sure the reseller gets correct info about the microphone ( craigmorris74 just showed that FLEA hasn't used this text in at least 3 years) but it would prohibit FLEA for example from building ANY mics if they had to constantly check all the promo texts retailers generate. It just is not possible.
I have wasted a good amount of time trying to get retailers AND manufacturers to correctly list or describe my capsules. It can be never ending.
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Post by recordingengineer on Aug 28, 2023 21:47:54 GMT -6
It wasn’t the tube that sounded so thin though. It was the capsule. I don’t know why they use such bad sounding capsules. It’s hard to take most anything you say seriously with comments like that. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 28, 2023 21:51:38 GMT -6
However you justify it they are using inferior methods and materials over time as the market consumes the NOS parts. People need to lower their expectations now. That’s all. Wait, but it very much matters whether Flea led you to believe you were getting something that you didn’t. Right? Yes their economy with the truth or language barrier or whatever it was led me to believe after 5 Flea’s beforehand I was getting something that was actually worth the money. I should have returned it but I changed the capsule and started messing around. I’m glad I’ve started buying better value brands that sound superior and focus on improving. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 28, 2023 22:04:07 GMT -6
It wasn’t the tube that sounded so thin though. It was the capsule. I don’t know why they use such bad sounding capsules. It’s hard to take most anything you say seriously with comments like that. It’s true though. They describe them as “exact replicas”and they sound nothing like the original versions. I’ve changed every capsule in every one. That’s pretty serious. Up until fairly recently they made the best quality mics available apart from the capsules. I’ve never liked the sound of Tim’s capsules and there’s a lot of truth in that statement. |
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Post by yotonic on Aug 28, 2023 22:14:55 GMT -6
Any Buffalo Bills fans here? Hoping for a super bowl this year..
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 28, 2023 22:15:24 GMT -6
Paul can you post any pictures of this mic? Before and after you changed the parts?
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Post by ragan on Aug 28, 2023 22:16:18 GMT -6
Wait, but it very much matters whether Flea led you to believe you were getting something that you didn’t. Right? Yes their economy with the truth or language barrier or whatever it was led me to believe after 5 Flea’s beforehand I was getting something that was actually worth the money. I should have returned it but I changed the capsule and started messing around. I’m glad I’ve started buying better value brands that sound superior and focus on improving. Hmm. That passive voice is doing some pretty heavy lifting there. Some undefined thing "led you to believe" you were getting this very specific tube which they (apparently) didn't say you were getting. I don't know what the rest of the backstory is, nor do I have a personal interest in Flea's reputation (I'm not a customer of theirs or any of their competitors), but it feels hard to believe this is all about a tube. |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 28, 2023 22:17:20 GMT -6
Yes their economy with the truth or language barrier or whatever it was led me to believe after 5 Flea’s beforehand I was getting something that was actually worth the money. I should have returned it but I changed the capsule and started messing around. I’m glad I’ve started buying better value brands that sound superior and focus on improving. Hmm. That passive voice is doing some pretty heavy lifting there. Some undefined thing "led you to believe" you were getting this very specific tube which they (apparently) didn't say you were getting. I don't know what the rest of the backstory is, nor do I have a personal interest in Flea's reputation (I'm not a customer of theirs or any of their competitors), but it feels hard to believe this is all about a tube. True,true. |
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Post by spindrift on Aug 28, 2023 22:21:03 GMT -6
Gearspace’s High-End stinks of the OP’s farts and now we have to suffer him over here too? On to my ignore list here too I guess.
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Post by yotonic on Aug 28, 2023 22:28:44 GMT -6
I've owned a mic with Tim's capsule in it and there's no question he makes a good capsule. There's also no question Paul has made good records (love Morcheeba) and has his own taste in gear.
The original post was simply that he was surprised a Flea production mic shipped with such a cheap tube. Nothing wrong with that. But maybe some of the subsequent comments are getting harsh transients:)
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Post by ragan on Aug 28, 2023 22:37:01 GMT -6
I've owned a mic with Tim's capsule in it and there's no question he makes a good capsule. There's also no question Paul has made good records (love Morcheeba) and has his own taste in gear. The original post was simply that he was surprised a Flea production mic shipped with such a cheap tube. Nothing wrong with that. But maybe some of the other comments are getting harsh transients:) Ehh...I don't think any of the pushback would be there if he would have posted, "I'm surprised a Flea mic shipped with this cheap tube". I probably would have thought, "yeah that surprises me too". |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 28, 2023 22:46:43 GMT -6
Gearspace’s High-End stinks of the OP’s farts and now we have to suffer him over here too? On to my ignore list here too I guess. I remember you, you’re the guy with no sense of humour. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 28, 2023 22:59:23 GMT -6
I've owned a mic with Tim's capsule in it and there's no question he makes a good capsule. There's also no question Paul has made good records (love Morcheeba) and has his own taste in gear. The original post was simply that he was surprised a Flea production mic shipped with such a cheap tube. Nothing wrong with that. But maybe some of the other comments are getting harsh transients:) Ehh...I don't think any of the pushback would be there if he would have posted, "I'm surprised a Flea mic shipped with this cheap tube". I probably would have thought, "yeah that surprises me too". Tim and I have a history because I don’t like the sound of his precious capsules so when we have a mutual interest thread it usually turns into a row. That’s where the pushback started. Plush will be here soon insulting me, it’s just bs that shouldn’t interfere with the content. Obviously after spending over 20k on my flea circus I feel entitled to feel annoyed that the last mic I buy from them is the worst yet. My message is Flea isn’t what it was. So keep your expectations in check or buy used. |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 28, 2023 23:02:38 GMT -6
Paul are you saying you started this thread just to spite me? Read my posts.
Can we see pics of this mic and problems with build quality?
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Post by mics on Aug 29, 2023 2:02:43 GMT -6
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 29, 2023 2:42:55 GMT -6
Paul are you saying you started this thread just to spite me? Read my posts. Can we see pics of this mic and problems with build quality? No Tim you aren’t that important although following me on all the forums was a bit stalker like of you. |
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