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Post by bossanova on Aug 26, 2023 10:29:22 GMT -6
It says a lot about RGO when you compare the discussion here vs the Purple Place, where some Rando is claiming that he could program something equivalent to this plug-in within 15 minutes. 1) If that's true he should definitely do that, call it the Golden Bullet, and sell it at half price. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen. 2) Even if that were somehow true, all that's really saying is "I have no ideas of my own but I do have enough skill to copy your ideas after you create them." Again, the dude's obviously full of beans but my point is that the most he would be saying is that he's good at ripping off other peoples work. Tell him to go apply for a job at Behringer. What’s also weird is that the guy in question only has 18 posts in two years, and half of them [edit: actually 3, I guess it just feels like more] are in the Silver Bullet plug-in thread. What makes someone come out of the woodwork after two years as a lurker just to trash on a product that they don’t even appear to have demoed (they did a comparison of someone else’s samples), I have no idea. Added: his other posts don’t seem to have the same edge so who knows what’s happening. I feel bad about dumping on someone I don’t know, non-sensical as his posts may be. |
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Post by Darren Boling on Aug 26, 2023 10:31:28 GMT -6
Well, I sent him the same link I posted here that contains a a raw file, HW processed, and SW processed file. Let's all wait for the golden bullet.
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Post by plinker on Aug 26, 2023 10:32:26 GMT -6
1) If that's true he should definitely do that, call it the Golden Bullet, and sell it at half price. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen. 2) Even if that were somehow true, all that's really saying is "I have no ideas of my own but I do have enough skill to copy your ideas after you create them." Again, the dude's obviously full of beans but my point is that the most he would be saying is that he's good at ripping off other peoples work. Tell him to go apply for a job at Behringer. What’s also weird is that the guy in question only has 18 posts in two years and half of them are in the Silver Bullet plug-in thread. What makes someone come out of the woodwork after two years as a lurker just to trash on a product that they don’t even appear to have demoed (they did a comparison of someone else’s samples), I have no idea. ...and pretty soon, you'll have to pay for that kind of deep wisdom  |
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Post by drbill on Aug 26, 2023 11:48:29 GMT -6
I got nothing here..... Just appreciate you guys on RGO!!! LOL
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 26, 2023 12:47:36 GMT -6
I was concerned about launch price, but if somebody demos this plug in appropriately in a mix or for mastering, it makes no sense to say it is not good value. Everything, I know about Brad and product design/dev’t is that he thoroughly considers the value add of any new LTLO product and how he can tweak design to make it even better. To suggest digitally emulating an SB mkii and all its possible signal flow interactions is easy or simple is laughably wrong. I dropped it on 3 busses in my final mix this morning: each time achieved sonic improvements quickly. I was a skeptic about the sbmkii plug in value proposition, not any longer: will be buying it at sale price: to hell with Revenue Canada: sometimes, a recording man, just gots to do, what he gots to do !!  Thanks again for a fine new product! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 26, 2023 13:36:46 GMT -6
Hey, I'd rather have this... Than a couple other things I was eyeing at $250 or less. (Even the Useful Arts Hornet!) Which says alot-at least to me. Recovering from lean $ummer. Way less Summer income than my Boss promised. But will save my pesos. Following Thread now. Thanks Bill and Brad. Privately I had hoped this would happen. The early Videos blew me away on the SB, from the start. Chris |
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Post by drbill on Aug 26, 2023 15:18:10 GMT -6
I was concerned about launch price, but if somebody demos this plug in appropriately in a mix or for mastering, it makes no sense to say it is not good value. Everything, I know about Brad and product design/dev’t is that he thoroughly considers the value add of any new LTLO product and how he can tweak design to make it even better.To suggest digitally emulating an SB mkii and all its possible signal flow interactions is easy or simple is laughably wrong. I dropped it on 3 busses in my final mix this morning: each time achieved sonic improvements quickly. I was a skeptic about the sbmkii plug in value proposition, not any longer: will be buying it at sale price: to hell with Revenue Canada: sometimes, a recording man, just gots to do, what he gots to do !! Thanks again for a fine new product! Thanks for the kind words. There is much speculation & drama about this plugin's price, development features, expandability in the future (xtra modules like the hardware), software vs hardware sonics and how close it falls next to the hardware, etc.. But you have hit on something above that Brad holds very close to his heart - value and features and users needs. When we're designing things (take the hardware OR software mk2 for instance) - Brad and I often get into CRAZY brainstorming sessions that drag us waaaaay far into outer space. LOL Seriously. But with hardware especially, there is only so much you can cram into a limited space - and every component subtracts space, adds heat and elevates costs. But with software - the "space" and "heat" constraint vanishes. At that point, it becomes more about how many years will you take to develop this (in this case almost 2 years), how much the actual development costs, what people really want/need, what the market will bear, and in our instance - how close to the hardware can we get. Brad especially - I don't quite have his tenacity - will not stop anywhere short of "perfection". But "perfection" for all of us is housed within the limits of technology and money and time. And that's what ultimately determines price and value - and ultimately what you experienced. It makes us VERY happy when people demo this plug and actually SEE/HEAR the development, care and precision that went into this plug. So thank you for that. Your endorsement and purchase mean a lot. Both Brad and I and every single member of the team are VERY passionate about audio and getting each and every product as good as we can within the constraints of "reality". "Reality" 2023 = the Silver Bullet mk2 plugin - and we feel it's way out front of what most companies are putting out. Hope you guys all agree! Enjoy! And All the Best, bp |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 26, 2023 16:56:52 GMT -6
No probs Dr. I try to be straightforward, yup I didn’t like launch price, but the proof is in the pudding and the plug in flat out impressed me.
I’ve been following Brad for about 5-7 years and read the product releases on site etc.: I would never question his commitment: that’s just not him.
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Post by Darren Boling on Aug 26, 2023 21:20:01 GMT -6
Interesting sound change when option-clicking the mix knob and turning the text red. Sounds thicker and a bit slower (are we getting some Mass Driver thrown in?) at least this is what I'm hearing when Hitmaker is selected and mix is full.
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 26, 2023 22:50:27 GMT -6
Just bought it. Hell of a lot cheap than an MKII and willing to bet it'll hold me over until i get a real one. Love the features it has. Can't wait to try it out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 0:09:43 GMT -6
This is awesome and disgusting. I love it.
I tested it out on a harmonically rich mix on two bus: A: Pushes mids. There's a very small sweet spot between "louder, tigher, better" and absolutely disgusting crunch. Crunch up your snares and guitars. Not that brown. Way less digital than Softube. N: Rounder, gentler, higher fidelity. Less of a disgusting crunch on transients and can be pushed harder but is veiled. Mids are not as fun as A. Neither as brown as Softube British Class A nor as digital as Waves. Hitmaker 4000: The most disgusting SSL emulation yet. This feels like you're overdriving a piece of gear with old DBX VCAs. I even checked at 192khz and it has the old VCA rolloff but is fatiguing to the point of glassy. Bitmaker 1200 is even grosser. I haven't tried the VHS effect. Someone needs to compare it to Baby Audio's Super VHS. A reminds me of Inflator but less fatiguing with a smaller sweet spot. N is most like the SDRR2 Desk but SDRR2 on 1 or 2 stages and Crosstalk not on High is subtler. 3 stages is more drastic. Hitmaker 4000 reminds me of the PSP Infinistrip 80s pre but more fatiguing, less digital, and less "yellow" for lack of a better term. Both get stupid loud on mix bus. This wrecks Waves SSL but the new EV2 is somehow even more lofi. Bitmaker 1200 is not as loud and stupid sounding as the Infinistrip 90s 12-bit ADC. It's not as colorful as Molot GE's LOFI button. TCS-68 is subtler and smoother than Hitmaker 4000. Without the cassette emulation activated can have more distortion while not being as noticeable. The Vinyl Sim is neither as out there as Vulf Compressor nor as detailed as SimuLathe. I would not buy it at anything close to full price because Plugin Alliance rewards the patient. |
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Post by phdamage on Aug 27, 2023 10:56:39 GMT -6
Really digging this plug. I can see this taking the place of 3-4 plugs on my 2 bus for sure. Boy am I gonna want this in hardware form
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:13:17 GMT -6
Really digging this plug. I can see this taking the place of 3-4 plugs on my 2 bus for sure. Boy am I gonna want this in hardware form The only thing it needs is a red light for the various models because the line between better and crunch is so thin with the A and 4000. Better metering too that adjusts with the headroom knob. The headroom knob doesn’t move the meter. The opposite of uhe satin where the knob doesn’t change the processing and just changes the meter. SDRR2 does the headroom and metering knob scaling right. The light for the hitmaker 4000 and vhs switch is too dim too. drbill |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 27, 2023 13:10:25 GMT -6
drbill is there supposed to be crosstalk between channels in the HW? I'm sending two mono tracks, hard panned L and R. And I'm getting a little of the right channel signal in the left. And vice versa. Is this the way it's supposed to operate?
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Post by drbill on Aug 27, 2023 13:27:37 GMT -6
Really digging this plug. I can see this taking the place of 3-4 plugs on my 2 bus for sure. Boy am I gonna want this in hardware form The only thing it needs is a red light for the various models because the line between better and crunch is so thin with the A and 4000. Better metering too that adjusts with the headroom knob. The headroom knob doesn’t move the meter. The opposite of uhe satin where the knob doesn’t change the processing and just changes the meter. SDRR2 does the headroom and metering knob scaling right. The light for the hitmaker 4000 and vhs switch is too dim too. drbill Dan....lost my long post to you. #@!$%@@#! Will try to start again, but I need to jump off soon. Main metering is on the output stage - last thing in the line - just like the hardware. So it is not linked directly to headroom. It was not our design concern to make it how other plugs do it - we designed this to be AS CLOSE to the hardware as was technically possible. That was our goal. Sorry it doesn't meet your expectations, but it is what it is - which is what we believe to be the most useful for the most folks. Think hardware output metering. Also, the saturation LED's come on gradually from blue to pinkish-red, as the hardware - or in this case software - starts to saturate. They are not intended to be "peak" style meters, but more gradual RMS-ish style metering. They are pretty close to the hardware in the way they work. The LED's for the C module are colored the same as the Color modules they represent to stay consistent to the hardware as well. So that's it. Designed not from the ground up to be a saturation PLUG IN, but to be as close to the hardware (which we affectionately call a "2 channel console") as is technically possible. Some report it as insanely close (within just a couple percentage points), while others are stating it's in the 90 + % range. I don't do percentages. I like the hardware and I like the software too. They are both extremely useful to me and each can each do things the other can't. It sounds like you are driving it very hard. You're not alone in that. I'm seeing some others try to make the box/plug sound like a freaking stomp box fuzz pedal. Although it's possible cause there's a freaking TON of gain, that's not what the box was intended to do. It's intended for that gentle, almost "felt" saturation you get in using a classic Class A style console. If you use it at more moderate settings, I think you will fall in love with it. At least that has been my and most others I'm close with experience. So....at any rate, honestly, I can't tell if you love it or hate it. LOL. Thanks for giving it a spin though. Cheers, |
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Post by drbill on Aug 27, 2023 13:31:47 GMT -6
drbill is there supposed to be crosstalk between channels in the HW? I'm sending two mono tracks, hard panned L and R. And I'm getting a little of the right channel signal in the left. And vice versa. Is this the way it's supposed to operate? Welcome to analog. If you're using hardware - it is what it is. Its a stereo box - not a dual mono box. A pair of Chroma's or a Chroma + addresses those issues with extremely similar sonics. If you're using the software, use two instances and problem solved. Again, we modeled this plugin identically after the hardware. If you need that type of separation - use two instances - or two hardware Silver Bullets, or a pair of Chroma's!! <thumbsup> Hope that helps. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 27, 2023 14:12:43 GMT -6
Many THANKS to Erik @ Rapid Flow on youtube for demoing the mk2 plugin against his Neve & Wesaudio hardware with some tasty EDM / Techno music :
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 27, 2023 15:23:57 GMT -6
Great review: funny that he doesn’t have an SB ! |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 27, 2023 15:27:08 GMT -6
drbill is there supposed to be crosstalk between channels in the HW? I'm sending two mono tracks, hard panned L and R. And I'm getting a little of the right channel signal in the left. And vice versa. Is this the way it's supposed to operate? Welcome to analog. If you're using hardware - it is what it is. Its a stereo box - not a dual mono box. A pair of Chroma's or a Chroma + addresses those issues with extremely similar sonics. If you're using the software, use two instances and problem solved. Again, we modeled this plugin identically after the hardware. If you need that type of separation - use two instances - or two hardware Silver Bullets, or a pair of Chroma's!! <thumbsup> Hope that helps. It's fine. I just wanted to know if the crosstalk is intentional. |
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Post by BradM on Aug 27, 2023 17:44:46 GMT -6
The only thing it needs is a red light for the various models because the line between better and crunch is so thin with the A and 4000. Better metering too that adjusts with the headroom knob. The headroom knob doesn’t move the meter. The opposite of uhe satin where the knob doesn’t change the processing and just changes the meter. SDRR2 does the headroom and metering knob scaling right. The light for the hitmaker 4000 and vhs switch is too dim too. drbill Main metering is on the output stage - last thing in the line - just like the hardware. So it is not linked directly to headroom. It was not our design concern to make it how other plugs do it - we designed this to be AS CLOSE to the hardware as was technically possible. That was our goal. Sorry it doesn't meet your expectations, but it is what it is - which is what we believe to be the most useful for the most folks. Think hardware output metering. Also, the saturation LED's come on gradually from blue to pinkish-red, as the hardware - or in this case software - starts to saturate. They are not intended to be "peak" style meters, but more gradual RMS-ish style metering. They are pretty close to the hardware in the way they work. The LED's for the C module are colored the same as the Color modules they represent to stay consistent to the hardware as well. I spent way too much of my life trying to get those damn Mojo LEDs to match the behavior of the hardware.  I avert my eyes every time I look at my hardware because the memories are too painful.  It’s sad to admit, but that might have been one of the most frustrating challenges of the whole project. Nothing like trying to digitally emulate the behavior of a very non-linear LED driver circuit that was breadboarded into existence through trial and error to match some strange idea I had in my head. As for Headroom, it’s adjusting internal operating levels and saturation thresholds in a compensated way. So I would hope the output meter levels wouldn’t change. If you want to see more output signal on the meter the easiest way is to turn up the Output Trim. The meter gets signal after that final Output Trim circuit, which by the way is modeled after an analog output stage I created specifically for the plugin. Brad |
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Post by BradM on Aug 27, 2023 17:46:11 GMT -6
It's fine. I just wanted to know if the crosstalk is intentional. Hi, Yes, it’s intentional. Which sections do you have enabled by the way? For the least amount of left/right variation I would set Dyna Realism to SYM mode. Brad |
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Post by teejay on Aug 27, 2023 20:15:57 GMT -6
Out of budget for me at the moment. So what do I do? I download the demo anyway. Now I can't unhear all the great things it does to my tracks and vocals.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 27, 2023 20:40:04 GMT -6
It's fine. I just wanted to know if the crosstalk is intentional. Hi, Yes, it’s intentional. Which sections do you have enabled by the way? For the least amount of left/right variation I would set Dyna Realism to SYM mode. Brad Ironically, I don’t have the plug-in. I have the HW. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 20:59:41 GMT -6
The only thing it needs is a red light for the various models because the line between better and crunch is so thin with the A and 4000. Better metering too that adjusts with the headroom knob. The headroom knob doesn’t move the meter. The opposite of uhe satin where the knob doesn’t change the processing and just changes the meter. SDRR2 does the headroom and metering knob scaling right. The light for the hitmaker 4000 and vhs switch is too dim too. drbill Dan....lost my long post to you. #@!$%@@#! Will try to start again, but I need to jump off soon. Main metering is on the output stage - last thing in the line - just like the hardware. So it is not linked directly to headroom. It was not our design concern to make it how other plugs do it - we designed this to be AS CLOSE to the hardware as was technically possible. That was our goal. Sorry it doesn't meet your expectations, but it is what it is - which is what we believe to be the most useful for the most folks. Think hardware output metering. Also, the saturation LED's come on gradually from blue to pinkish-red, as the hardware - or in this case software - starts to saturate. They are not intended to be "peak" style meters, but more gradual RMS-ish style metering. They are pretty close to the hardware in the way they work. The LED's for the C module are colored the same as the Color modules they represent to stay consistent to the hardware as well. So that's it. Designed not from the ground up to be a saturation PLUG IN, but to be as close to the hardware (which we affectionately call a "2 channel console") as is technically possible. Some report it as insanely close (within just a couple percentage points), while others are stating it's in the 90 + % range. I don't do percentages. I like the hardware and I like the software too. They are both extremely useful to me and each can each do things the other can't. It sounds like you are driving it very hard. You're not alone in that. I'm seeing some others try to make the box/plug sound like a freaking stomp box fuzz pedal. Although it's possible cause there's a freaking TON of gain, that's not what the box was intended to do. It's intended for that gentle, almost "felt" saturation you get in using a classic Class A style console. If you use it at more moderate settings, I think you will fall in love with it. At least that has been my and most others I'm close with experience. So....at any rate, honestly, I can't tell if you love it or hate it. LOL. Thanks for giving it a spin though. Cheers, I love the plugin but for totally different reasons than it was made.
The plugin succeeds like that on N mode on mix bus with the vintage and tight buttons hit. It just isn't as flexible as SDRR2 Desk in that mix bus regard. N as an early insert on individual tracks gives that subtle warmth and depth. It wrecks the Waves and PSP Neves that almost sound like digital overdrive. It isn't as sheened as Black Rooster Vpre-73 programmed originally by Ray from Fuse. It feels more modern and less brown and muddy than Softube British Class A or Brainworx bx_Focusrite (this one is really weird and fat).
A mode has a cool use as a clipper. You can get it to a gain range where a sort of non-linear transfer curve fun happens and use it as less beefy and gritty version of PSP Vintage Warmer or Apogee Soft Limit. Maximize the volume and clip off spurious transients as an early insert on tracks. It is better to use it for for mastering or as an early track insert maybe before or even after leveling compression or automation. You could even use it as a sidechain to a fast compressor to not pump the mix on transients while providing a slight amount of distortion less pushed on the audio path of the track. The sweet spot for this is just a little too small to wildly ride faders into for anything other than some slight distortion.
Hitmaker 4000 is easier to mix into. More forgiving than A for volume gain and more distorted!
A as a subtle distortion thing just isn't that weird and distorted in today's market. We live in a world where people push everything. Variety of Sound Tessla Pro mk II came out in 2012 with a much browner, more vintage API setting, ran at 192 khz, and was free.
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Post by phdamage on Aug 27, 2023 21:00:27 GMT -6
Out of budget for me at the moment. So what do I do? I download the demo anyway. Now I can't unhear all the great things it does to my tracks and vocals. get yourself a Forever29 voucher on kvr. that's what i did. ran me $45 |
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I avert my eyes every time I look at my hardware because the memories are too painful. 
It’s sad to admit, but that might have been one of the most frustrating challenges of the whole project. Nothing like trying to digitally emulate the behavior of a very non-linear LED driver circuit that was breadboarded into existence through trial and error to match some strange idea I had in my head.