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Post by gmichael on Jun 4, 2023 18:06:25 GMT -6
The 251 is probably the singe greatest LDC Tube microphone of all time. Well it's that or the M49 isn't it?
I'm still not on board with the whole fixation on the 47's.
To my ears it's either a 49 or a 251 style mic , all others need not apply
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Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2023 18:15:20 GMT -6
The 251 is probably the singe greatest LDC Tube microphone of all time. Well it's that or the M49 isn't it?
I'm still not on board with the whole fixation on the 47's.
To my ears it's either a 49 or a 251 style mic , all others need not apply
Yeah I'm with you! I understand what you're getting at completely. A 47 has that 'mask' that is always there and can be as annoying AF on many voices, but always caries through due to the heft in the sound and its ability to 'heft up' a thin or weak sounding vocal. A 48 has a little hotter sound and has increased presence and air due to the capsule polarization voltage change. A 49 has a lot less low mid but increased bottom and the silky top end that doesn't quite carry to the center mid mask of a 47 The 251 is all a 49 is and has much cleaner and better sounding low end from 33hz ro 400. Doesn't quite have the air of a C12, thankfully for some of us, but it's just so perfect. And great on shakers and cabasa! LOL Right, drbill ? |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 4, 2023 18:21:07 GMT -6
I think it's been long enough for everyone to listen and get their opinions. ALL Mic A clips = Heiserman H251 ALL Mic B clips = Heiserman H47T w/ HK47 capsule Thoughts? A good exercise for some to hone their hearing on. The low-mid clean-up of an accurate sounding 251 clone is a thing of beauty and an accurate reproduction of the original; which was so great! The 251 is probably the singe greatest LDC Tube microphone of all time. Ward you "had me" up to the 251 "Greatest thing". But I wouldn't mind a "singe" of that part. Don't_hate_me guys for... Willingness to take home stray U47's* and U67's. (49's need no mention-we WANT!)  Chris *Come on guys. Just Little Richard wild man vocals alone. Luuuuuuciiiiillllleeee! Paging Cosimo! |
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Post by seawell on Jun 4, 2023 19:16:29 GMT -6
Since I have been publicly shamed I will try to explain myself 🤣.
I've never had the pleasure of using a vintage 251 but my 251 clone usage goes back about 20 years ago starting with the Soundelux 251. Since then, I've also tried the SoundElux e250, the Upton 251 & the 251 capsule on my Korby KAT. I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. It could just be a loose screw rattling around in my head 🤪. When I first heard the Soundelux 251, I actually thought something was wrong with the mic. Having said all that, I'm still very interested in hearing the Heiserman and Flea 251 in person. Ok...now I will go back to using lowly 47 clones 🤣
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Post by chessparov on Jun 4, 2023 19:43:14 GMT -6
Just imagine using an Atlantis.
Then you'd be really sunk.
(Cues some Donovan)
Chris
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Post by ab101 on Jun 4, 2023 21:29:43 GMT -6
Since I have been publicly shamed I will try to explain myself 🤣. I've never had the pleasure of using a vintage 251 but my 251 clone usage goes back about 20 years ago starting with the Soundelux 251. Since then, I've also tried the SoundElux e250, the Upton 251 & the 251 capsule on my Korby KAT. I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. It could just be a loose screw rattling around in my head 🤪. When I first heard the Soundelux 251, I actually thought something was wrong with the mic. Having said all that, I'm still very interested in hearing the Heiserman and Flea 251 in person. Ok...now I will go back to using lowly 47 clones 🤣 I felt bad when the Beatles were stuck with those lowly 47s and 48s. Let alone, poor Frank. All great mics - 47s, 48s, 251s. If Bessie Smith were alive today, I wonder what mic she would prefer? M49? |
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Post by gmichael on Jun 4, 2023 21:53:27 GMT -6
I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. That is largely the result of which tube is used in my opinion. There are tube options that will reduce that obvious saturation that doesn't win you over. I actually don't mind it if it's even and smooth. But silly me I really love how the TLM67 does exactly that right out of the box!
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Post by seawell on Jun 4, 2023 22:28:48 GMT -6
I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. That is largely the result of which tube is used in my opinion. There are tube options that will reduce that obvious saturation that doesn't win you over. I actually don't mind it if it's even and smooth. But silly me I really love how the TLM67 does exactly that right out of the box!
Don't get me wrong...sometimes I do like it! I just feel like I hear 251s differently than a lot of people for whatever reason and it usually isn't my #1 choice. I tend to use a 67 or 47 style more often. I have 3 GE 5 Star 6072 tubes that each have a unique character that I'll rotate in my Korby depending on the sound I'm looking for. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 5, 2023 6:06:55 GMT -6
That is largely the result of which tube is used in my opinion. There are tube options that will reduce that obvious saturation that doesn't win you over. I actually don't mind it if it's even and smooth. But silly me I really love how the TLM67 does exactly that right out of the box!
Don't get me wrong...sometimes I do like it! I just feel like I hear 251s differently than a lot of people for whatever reason and it usually isn't my #1 choice. I tend to use a 67 or 47 style more often. I have 3 GE 5 Star 6072 tubes that each have a unique character that I'll rotate in my Korby depending on the sound I'm looking for. Nothing wrong with your ears . . . and TBH, a worn-in/out run of the mill average 47 is easily mimicked by a lowly SM58 - but few want to admit that. LOL (U2 anyone?) PS {autocorrect makes all my typos for me} |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 5, 2023 6:14:12 GMT -6
I'm glad I was hearing what I thought I was hearing. I've got my 47 style mic covered, which makes me happy. I'm still itching for a 251 though. I've wanted to sing through one for a while. There are times I find my FleA 49 a touch thick, and I think that's when a 251 would really do well. Maybe down the road. I'm supposed to demo the FleA ELA M251 at some point. I'd love to try Heiserman's too. Maybe when I'm in my new place I can try to make that happen.
**Edit. I have a recording of Emily on a Korby 251, and It was my pick during a shootout we did.
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Post by drbill on Jun 5, 2023 11:05:24 GMT -6
The 251 is all a 49 is and has much cleaner and better sounding low end from 33hz ro 400. Doesn't quite have the air of a C12, thankfully for some of us, but it's just so perfect. And great on shakers and cabasa! LOL Right, drbill ? AMEN! |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 5, 2023 12:17:42 GMT -6
They just started a rival company in Cuba, to Lyft and Uber...
"Cabasa".
Both of those companies are suing them.
Seems unfare.
Chris
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Post by Ward on Jun 5, 2023 17:31:26 GMT -6
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Post by ab101 on Jul 27, 2023 11:33:57 GMT -6
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 27, 2023 12:13:50 GMT -6
Since I have been publicly shamed I will try to explain myself 🤣. I've never had the pleasure of using a vintage 251 but my 251 clone usage goes back about 20 years ago starting with the Soundelux 251. Since then, I've also tried the SoundElux e250, the Upton 251 & the 251 capsule on my Korby KAT. I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. It could just be a loose screw rattling around in my head 🤪. When I first heard the Soundelux 251, I actually thought something was wrong with the mic. Having said all that, I'm still very interested in hearing the Heiserman and Flea 251 in person. Ok...now I will go back to using lowly 47 clones 🤣 I was also quite surprised on how "smokey' a 251 sounds like. Quite audioable saturation in the mids. Sure the tube can affect that and a Vintage 6072 5* is even more saturated then certain other tubes. The 251 hype is probably more about the looks then the sound 😎 A Neumann sounds cleaner to my ears especially ac701 style mics which is my favourite. Always sounds so balanced with a lovely topend. I really want to get my hands on an M49! |
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Post by seawell on Jul 27, 2023 12:25:22 GMT -6
Since I have been publicly shamed I will try to explain myself 🤣. I've never had the pleasure of using a vintage 251 but my 251 clone usage goes back about 20 years ago starting with the Soundelux 251. Since then, I've also tried the SoundElux e250, the Upton 251 & the 251 capsule on my Korby KAT. I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. It could just be a loose screw rattling around in my head 🤪. When I first heard the Soundelux 251, I actually thought something was wrong with the mic. Having said all that, I'm still very interested in hearing the Heiserman and Flea 251 in person. Ok...now I will go back to using lowly 47 clones 🤣 I was also quite surprised on how "smokey' a 251 sounds like. Quite audioable saturation in the mids. Sure the tube can affect that and a Vintage 6072 5* is even more saturated then certain other tubes. The 251 hype is probably more about the looks then the sound 😎 A Neumann sounds cleaner to my ears especially ac701 style mics which is my favourite. Always sounds so balanced with a lovely topend. I really want to get my hands on an M49! That's true! I have 3 GE 5* 6072 tubes that I'll use depending on the situation as they all have varying levels of that color. In addition to the look of the 251, I think that fact that less of them were made than the others makes it the holy grail. Same with a Fairchild, I think the look and rarity is more of what drives the price up than the actual sound. Well and the plethora of tubes .....ok now that I've given the shoulder shrug to the 251 and Fairchild I'll see myself out 🤣  |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jul 27, 2023 12:37:11 GMT -6
Since I have been publicly shamed I will try to explain myself 🤣. I've never had the pleasure of using a vintage 251 but my 251 clone usage goes back about 20 years ago starting with the Soundelux 251. Since then, I've also tried the SoundElux e250, the Upton 251 & the 251 capsule on my Korby KAT. I've always heard this slight saturation in the upper mids on 251s that normally leads me towards using something else. It could just be a loose screw rattling around in my head 🤪. When I first heard the Soundelux 251, I actually thought something was wrong with the mic. Having said all that, I'm still very interested in hearing the Heiserman and Flea 251 in person. Ok...now I will go back to using lowly 47 clones 🤣 I was also quite surprised on how "smokey' a 251 sounds like. Quite audioable saturation in the mids. Sure the tube can affect that and a Vintage 6072 5* is even more saturated then certain other tubes. The 251 hype is probably more about the looks then the sound 😎 A Neumann sounds cleaner to my ears especially ac701 style mics which is my favourite. Always sounds so balanced with a lovely topend. I really want to get my hands on an M49! I agree, as I said on the purple site I prefer a C12 but it doesn’t look as cool. The CK12 capsules of that 1960’s time sound great though and are probably the peak. I think the AC701K was a better version too but these days clones are all we can dream of and the H251 sounds like the best. More robust than the Flea which looks and sounds more feminine. Why the white and not pink I’ll never know. The sudden trend is surprising, I just demoed the GAP Elam 251 which for 6k feels and sounds cheap. It makes a Bock feel solid. If Heisermen were available in the U.K. at a sensible price I’d buy a pair. |
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Post by stam on Jul 27, 2023 12:56:39 GMT -6
Damn, the Golden Age and Warm sound nothing like the others.
The Telefunken (first one) had a really nice clarity that was lacking on the Bock and Upton. By far the best one
On Acoustic Guitars it's quite evident!!
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Post by paulcheeba on Jul 27, 2023 13:37:33 GMT -6
Damn, the Golden Age and Warm sound nothing like the others. The Telefunken (first one) had a really nice clarity that was lacking on the Bock and Upton. By far the best one On Acoustic Guitars it's quite evident!! Telefunken apparently bought all the old AKG stock and when they ran out they sound as wrong as the rest. Golden Age and Warm don't have proper CK12's. I think Bock went too dark with his Haun design but eq and tubes help, the modern UAD one sucks. Upton is not bad but lacks something. They all either have older C12 designs or Chinese k67's. They need the real deal capsules. Take 'em out Josh! |
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 14:08:59 GMT -6
Some of these mics sound NOTHING like a 251. The original T-Funk sounds like an average OG Telefunken from 1960 - good but not spectacular like 'Dolly' The Heiserman Flea and Upton all have the pleasant midrange character one expects. And like crillemannen Christian pointed out, the distortion is usually in the mid.s. if it is in the top end, it sounds very sibilant like a cheap chinesium capsule, and that isn't very warm. If the distortion is in the lower mid to bass, it sounds woofy and fuzzy which isn't very golden at all. JMHO, YMMV. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jul 27, 2023 14:11:17 GMT -6
At the end of the day, the Beatles sound better on Dynamic mics than most modern singers on 251 clones.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2023 16:05:51 GMT -6
Some of these mics sound NOTHING like a 251. The original T-Funk sounds like an average OG Telefunken from 1960 - good but not spectacular like 'Dolly' The Heiserman Flea and Upton all have the pleasant midrange character one expects. And like crillemannen Christian pointed out, the distortion is usually in the mid.s. if it is in the top end, it sounds very sibilant like a cheap chinesium capsule, and that isn't very warm. If the distortion is in the lower mid to bass, it sounds woofy and fuzzy which isn't very golden at all. JMHO, YMMV. IMHO another 251 right up there... Is Tommy James' personal 251, used on all his Roulette and Solo hits (After "Hanky Panky") Nice to have a great male voice as reference too! Chris |
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 16:16:25 GMT -6
Some of these mics sound NOTHING like a 251. The original T-Funk sounds like an average OG Telefunken from 1960 - good but not spectacular like 'Dolly' The Heiserman Flea and Upton all have the pleasant midrange character one expects. And like crillemannen Christian pointed out, the distortion is usually in the mid.s. if it is in the top end, it sounds very sibilant like a cheap chinesium capsule, and that isn't very warm. If the distortion is in the lower mid to bass, it sounds woofy and fuzzy which isn't very golden at all. JMHO, YMMV. IMHO another 251 right up there... Is Tommy James' personal 251, used on all his Roulette and Solo hits (After "Hanky Panky") Nice to have a great male voice as reference too! Chris Who owns the Crimson and Clover special now? |
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Post by aremos on Jul 27, 2023 16:31:54 GMT -6
Think his best was Chrystal Blue Persuasion.
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 17:48:02 GMT -6
Think his best was Chrystal Blue Persuasion. I completely agree, brother! |
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Chris
