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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 26, 2023 6:05:36 GMT -6
No offense, but you are misinterpreting or overcomplicating what I said. Right, means right sound for the task and keep it simple. Get that sound the way you want, as best you can,then worry about compression, depending on dynamics of the performance. I got to ask, why are you telling me this? If somehow you don't believe I have a clue or have never used the equipment pics below. Kcat, I've been doing this for the last two and a half decades plus I've been through a metric ton of stuff. I know what I need to look out for..
I gotta ask, why are you personalizing a comment I made that was just remarking on an element of the thread conversation: compressor minutia, nothing specific to your abilities/experience? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2023 6:09:20 GMT -6
I gotta ask, why are you personalizing a comment I made that was just remarking on an element of the thread conversation: compressor minutia, nothing specific to your abilities/experience? Simply because I have a slightly different perspective, I agree with the Tenor. A comp in a tracking chain matters just as much (if not more) than the pre IME, mic's win by a square mile but you run a 2A opto into a dark mic and it's mud city. It's not and or, you need to get it all right.. Do you get me? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 26, 2023 6:42:47 GMT -6
We will all pick the comp we have that we think best suits the capture/track or not use one at all if that suits?
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Post by notneeson on Mar 26, 2023 9:08:45 GMT -6
This all sounds like a very solid argument not to compress at tracking. You do not have to nail compression at capture if it’s so fraught. Do it later.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 26, 2023 10:59:33 GMT -6
Very nice rig and set-up  Pull that desk out and put those big Dyn’s on some speaker stands behind it …. you’ll thank me www.kmraudio.com/towersonic-ts1-pair.phpNot cheap I know, but they’re blinking effective and I found the improvement getting my monitors off the desk and into the old equilateral triangle “thing” made a huge difference - big monitors love to breathe a bit - especially for those long bass waves How do you rate the STAM 2A? I noticed it doesn’t have the emphasis control like the original and the Audioscape has - do you miss it? Old pics chief, I ended up rotating the baffle then placing them in a horizontal position and mounting the dyn's on ISO's ($250.00 a piece may I say due to the weight). This career / hobby ain't cheap. As for the STAM's I sold my Tele 2A's because I really could not tell the difference and as much as I try to rebel I am very much like you Tenor. As for the desk position I used to have it further out until I ran it through ARC & REW, I had a 100Hz issue until I put it right up against the wall. I see. I have my monitors up against the wall - it's my desk that's out into my room - this way I'm sitting in a non null point. Every room is different of course. Also, I like to be at least 4.5 ft back from tweeters - I don't like monitors in line with my PC screen - to intense a sound for me - but of course we're all very different in our perception and tastes. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 26, 2023 11:07:49 GMT -6
This all sounds like a very solid argument not to compress at tracking. You do not have to nail compression at capture if it’s so fraught. Do it later. You're not a singer? The STA Level effects the way I sing, it's like a warm current of air under a gliders wings, I lean in and catch the updraft and hold onto a phrase a tad longer or roll down a vocal riff and it just holds you there a glorious moment longer. Absolutely no different to a guitarist interacting with a great amp or a drummer in a great room playing a fill and reacting to the sound. Those performances though the gear/rooms need, imho, to be captured and baked in - you gotta have the confidence to commit with a chain that's effecting how the musician interacts with it. And to my ears, there's a difference between a compressor acting on a live signal from a capsule, hitting a pre, hitting a comp all pre A/D. But as ever, there's a ten thousand different engineers with ten thousand different workflows and mine is just a humble 2 cents and 1 little voice :-) |
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Post by copperx on Mar 26, 2023 13:41:30 GMT -6
This all sounds like a very solid argument not to compress at tracking. You do not have to nail compression at capture if it’s so fraught. Do it later. You're not a singer? The STA Level effects the way I sing, it's like a warm current of air under a gliders wings, I lean in and catch the updraft and hold onto a phrase a tad longer or roll down a vocal riff and it just holds you there a glorious moment longer. Absolutely no different to a guitarist interacting with a great amp or a drummer in a great room playing a fill and reacting to the sound. Those performances though the gear/rooms need, imho, to be captured and baked in - you gotta have the confidence to commit with a chain that's effecting how the musician interacts with it. And to my ears, there's a difference between a compressor acting on a live signal from a capsule, hitting a pre, hitting a comp all pre A/D. But as ever, there's a ten thousand different engineers with ten thousand different workflows and mine is just a humble 2 cents and 1 little voice :-) I dabble in singing from time to time, and I used to enjoy compression in my monitoring; however, I read a post by Steve Albini where he said he noticed that removing compression from monitoring made singers to be more consistently on pitch. I tried it and he was right. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 26, 2023 14:13:09 GMT -6
You're not a singer? The STA Level effects the way I sing, it's like a warm current of air under a gliders wings, I lean in and catch the updraft and hold onto a phrase a tad longer or roll down a vocal riff and it just holds you there a glorious moment longer. Absolutely no different to a guitarist interacting with a great amp or a drummer in a great room playing a fill and reacting to the sound. Those performances though the gear/rooms need, imho, to be captured and baked in - you gotta have the confidence to commit with a chain that's effecting how the musician interacts with it. And to my ears, there's a difference between a compressor acting on a live signal from a capsule, hitting a pre, hitting a comp all pre A/D. But as ever, there's a ten thousand different engineers with ten thousand different workflows and mine is just a humble 2 cents and 1 little voice :-) I dabble in singing from time to time, and I used to enjoy compression in my monitoring; however, I read a post by Steve Albini where he said he noticed that removing compression from monitoring made singers to be more consistently on pitch. I tried it and he was right. I don't have an issue with pitch - I should add I don't dabble in singing, I'm singing constantly, teaching singing, performing, recording .... headphones, wedges, IEM's (at times terrible monitors) So compressions not of concern to me tracking vocals in fact the complete opposite I love it :-) |
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Post by teejay on Mar 26, 2023 14:48:26 GMT -6
I dabble in singing from time to time, and I used to enjoy compression in my monitoring; however, I read a post by Steve Albini where he said he noticed that removing compression from monitoring made singers to be more consistently on pitch. I tried it and he was right. I don't have an issue with pitch - I should add I don't dabble in singing, I'm singing constantly, teaching singing, performing, recording .... headphones, wedges, IEM's (at times terrible monitors) So compressions not of concern to me tracking vocals in fact the complete opposite I love it :-) All I do is sing. If I'm struggling with pitch on a particular day or song I intuitively know it. Tracking with or without compression makes no difference. IMHO if a singer can't tell they're off pitch when being compressed, they need to do some work and get more familiar with their own voice. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 26, 2023 15:21:25 GMT -6
I don't have an issue with pitch - I should add I don't dabble in singing, I'm singing constantly, teaching singing, performing, recording .... headphones, wedges, IEM's (at times terrible monitors) So compressions not of concern to me tracking vocals in fact the complete opposite I love it :-) All I do is sing. If I'm struggling with pitch on a particular day or song I intuitively know it. Tracking with or without compression makes no difference. IMHO if a singer can't tell they're off pitch when being compressed, they need to do some work and get more familiar with their own voice. Exactly, I also fail to see the relationship between compression and pitch, it’s simply not how it’s works for me. If I can hear myself and the reference I can pitch accurately. The audio quality of the reference and monitoring is almost irrelevant. Pitch is pitch. Of course I prefer great monitoring and and well mixed backing. Live I use some really decent IEMS, with a great Senny wireless rig and properly mixed monitor mixes and the recordings we’ve made are almost studio quality vocals …. the pitch is so tight, I’ve been very chuffed with the results - IEM’s live are good for me, I really like them. |
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Post by notneeson on Mar 26, 2023 17:13:43 GMT -6
This all sounds like a very solid argument not to compress at tracking. You do not have to nail compression at capture if it’s so fraught. Do it later. You're not a singer? The STA Level effects the way I sing, it's like a warm current of air under a gliders wings, I lean in and catch the updraft and hold onto a phrase a tad longer or roll down a vocal riff and it just holds you there a glorious moment longer. Absolutely no different to a guitarist interacting with a great amp or a drummer in a great room playing a fill and reacting to the sound. Those performances though the gear/rooms need, imho, to be captured and baked in - you gotta have the confidence to commit with a chain that's effecting how the musician interacts with it. And to my ears, there's a difference between a compressor acting on a live signal from a capsule, hitting a pre, hitting a comp all pre A/D. But as ever, there's a ten thousand different engineers with ten thousand different workflows and mine is just a humble 2 cents and 1 little voice :-) I do sing, I guess I just don't soar like some golden eagle. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 26, 2023 17:55:31 GMT -6
You're not a singer? The STA Level effects the way I sing, it's like a warm current of air under a gliders wings, I lean in and catch the updraft and hold onto a phrase a tad longer or roll down a vocal riff and it just holds you there a glorious moment longer. Absolutely no different to a guitarist interacting with a great amp or a drummer in a great room playing a fill and reacting to the sound. Those performances though the gear/rooms need, imho, to be captured and baked in - you gotta have the confidence to commit with a chain that's effecting how the musician interacts with it. And to my ears, there's a difference between a compressor acting on a live signal from a capsule, hitting a pre, hitting a comp all pre A/D. But as ever, there's a ten thousand different engineers with ten thousand different workflows and mine is just a humble 2 cents and 1 little voice :-) I do sing, I guess I just don't soar like some golden eagle. In my case a bald eagle |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 26, 2023 18:55:03 GMT -6
I still prefer to just wing it. At my (low) level of recording skill, best to not Compress on the way in. (Although tempted by something like a RNLA  ) Two Tracks (one w/Effects, one RAW) I could do. Blend or leave out to taste. Call me a Chicken. Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 26, 2023 18:58:53 GMT -6
You're not a singer? The STA Level effects the way I sing, it's like a warm current of air under a gliders wings, I lean in and catch the updraft and hold onto a phrase a tad longer or roll down a vocal riff and it just holds you there a glorious moment longer. Absolutely no different to a guitarist interacting with a great amp or a drummer in a great room playing a fill and reacting to the sound. Those performances though the gear/rooms need, imho, to be captured and baked in - you gotta have the confidence to commit with a chain that's effecting how the musician interacts with it. And to my ears, there's a difference between a compressor acting on a live signal from a capsule, hitting a pre, hitting a comp all pre A/D. But as ever, there's a ten thousand different engineers with ten thousand different workflows and mine is just a humble 2 cents and 1 little voice :-) I dabble in singing from time to time, and I used to enjoy compression in my monitoring; however, I read a post by Steve Albini where he said he noticed that removing compression from monitoring made singers to be more consistently on pitch. I tried it and he was right. I'm kinda used to pressing the Direct Monitor button, on my Interfaces. Sometimes configuring the specific company's Driver is tough for me. (To reduce Latency etc.) Paging WASAPI. Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2023 21:59:22 GMT -6
We will all pick the comp we have that we think best suits the capture/track or not use one at all if that suits? I've always used compression, there's nothing quite like moving back / slightly off axis within a higher pitched chorus and having a 2A clamp. Oldest trick in the book and sounds like a record to me.. I've always found studio singing harder yet more rewarding and it helped my live technique enormously. |
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