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Post by thehightenor on Mar 20, 2023 3:06:54 GMT -6
That Shelford channel though, it's extremely high quality kit! Yeah but sometimes you have cut through the self imposed crap, nobody needs a $4K pre-amp.. Like ever.
It's always one extreme to the other for me, SSL console & ATC's -> Mbox, UA and cheap monitors -> Big ol' hybrid setup w/ the Core 59's. A lot of my less than stellar recordings came from cheaping out completely as for a short while I followed the mantra equipment and instruments etc. don't matter. I went completely ITB / VI's back in the day when plugins weren't all that great, today however things have changed a lot.
I'll get the balance right one day I'm sure..
It's true. One could have a Mac Studio connected to an Avid Carbon and a small 500 series rack with a couple of pre's, comps and EQ's. Done. Would an average punter notice? Almost certainly not! But I would notice the difference, and in truth I get a huge amount of joy from my project studio, I enjoy the gear in itself as much as I enjoy the creative side of things. In my case it's cheaper than therapy  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 20, 2023 3:13:08 GMT -6
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 20, 2023 3:28:27 GMT -6
They are very good. What do you need it for? Stereo piano capture, classical and acoustic guitar .... anything that requires a very clean capture and stable dynamic response - they have a crazy amount of headroom! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 20, 2023 4:34:38 GMT -6
I have never had a “clean detailed” pre and regularly record acoustic and have just wondered about that cleaner sound ?
I have ended up with my daking, stam adf and aurora n as a typical tracking chain, but experiment with snd without adf for acoustic.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 20, 2023 7:59:55 GMT -6
I have never had a “clean detailed” pre and regularly record acoustic and have just wondered about that cleaner sound ? I have ended up with my daking, stam adf and aurora n as a typical tracking chain, but experiment with snd without adf for acoustic. I record my Classical guitar (on Sting type songs) using a SDC vintage AKG 451E into the Millennia pre and it's very pristine and very real!! The transients are perfectly persevered, it's a very dynamic sound. I've thought I bet a Bluey in that chain dialed in with the mix knob to taste would work really well to add just a touch of attitude. Even 30% FX to dry would add a lovely quality to the signal in a pop setting. The Bluey is on my radar :-) |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 20, 2023 8:50:33 GMT -6
We had that confab! |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 20, 2023 9:51:31 GMT -6
We had that confab! Yeah true, I just need to buy one now. I'm split between the rack unit and the 500 series, and a small matter of the piggy bank not have enough pennies in it yet! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 12:47:11 GMT -6
It's true. One could have a Mac Studio connected to an Avid Carbon and a small 500 series rack with a couple of pre's, comps and EQ's. Done. Would an average punter notice? Almost certainly not! But I would notice the difference, and in truth I get a huge amount of joy from my project studio, I enjoy the gear in itself as much as I enjoy the creative side of things. In my case it's cheaper than therapy Oh come now Mr. Tenor, are you saying that if I buy some RND Portico's as a replacement, because I have on occasion sniffed cork that it's going to be that noteable? It's not like we're talking 80's cheap mixer equipment here, I'm sure it will be slightly different and that's about it. I've used far worse than the SSL pre-amps in my Big Six, I mean I'm really not sure why you couldn't get a world class mix from that desk and a couple of 500 comps. However the sound doesn't exactly fit my "specification" hence I'll buy the Portico's so I can sup on an overpriced bottle of modern du vin instead of a 1936 Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
Take all of this with a pinch of salt & in the meaning of jest as it's not a fundamentally serious topic in the grand scheme. However, I think the issue with me is again I've gone from one extreme to the other but I've heard others do marvelous if not incredible things inbetween. So if I've learn't nothing else in the past few decades wading through the mud of audio equipment it's that price means nothing, some expensive stuff I really don't like and vice versa on the cheap side. You find what works and roll, however I'm under no impression that there isn't something out there that's cheaper and better suited to my purposes than the Shelford. I might not find it straight away but part of the fun is messing around with new stuff aye?
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 20, 2023 15:13:30 GMT -6
It's true. One could have a Mac Studio connected to an Avid Carbon and a small 500 series rack with a couple of pre's, comps and EQ's. Done. Would an average punter notice? Almost certainly not! But I would notice the difference, and in truth I get a huge amount of joy from my project studio, I enjoy the gear in itself as much as I enjoy the creative side of things. In my case it's cheaper than therapy Oh come now Mr. Tenor, are you saying that if I buy some RND Portico's as a replacement, because I have on occasion sniffed cork that it's going to be that noteable? It's not like we're talking 80's cheap mixer equipment here, I'm sure it will be slightly different and that's about it. I've used far worse than the SSL pre-amps in my Big Six, I mean I'm really not sure why you couldn't get a world class mix from that desk and a couple of 500 comps. However the sound doesn't exactly fit my "specification" hence I'll buy the Portico's so I can sup on an overpriced bottle of modern du vin instead of a 1936 Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
Take all of this with a pinch of salt & in the meaning of jest as it's not a fundamentally serious topic in the grand scheme. However, I think the issue with me is again I've gone from one extreme to the other but I've heard others do marvelous if not incredible things inbetween. So if I've learn't nothing else in the past few decades wading through the mud of audio equipment it's that price means nothing, some expensive stuff I really don't like and vice versa on the cheap side. You find what works and roll, however I'm under no impression that there isn't something out there that's cheaper and better suited to my purposes than the Shelford. I might not find it straight away but part of the fun is messing around with new stuff aye?
Yes, I agree with what you’re saying here. I think in my case it would be getting rid of all my high end tube gear that would be where it made a difference I’d really notice. IME, I notice much less difference between solid state units. Believe me, there’s never a month goes by without me thinking can I justify my project studio considering what’s becomes of its creative output. (Though hope springs eternal I’m sure I could produce great music, as you point out with a less esoteric couple of racks of gear. I do hear what you’re saying and I do agree with what you’re saying. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 20, 2023 17:09:41 GMT -6
It's true. One could have a Mac Studio connected to an Avid Carbon and a small 500 series rack with a couple of pre's, comps and EQ's. Done. Would an average punter notice? Almost certainly not! But I would notice the difference, and in truth I get a huge amount of joy from my project studio, I enjoy the gear in itself as much as I enjoy the creative side of things. In my case it's cheaper than therapy Oh come now Mr. Tenor, are you saying that if I buy some RND Portico's as a replacement, because I have on occasion sniffed cork that it's going to be that noteable? It's not like we're talking 80's cheap mixer equipment here, I'm sure it will be slightly different and that's about it. I've used far worse than the SSL pre-amps in my Big Six, I mean I'm really not sure why you couldn't get a world class mix from that desk and a couple of 500 comps. However the sound doesn't exactly fit my "specification" hence I'll buy the Portico's so I can sup on an overpriced bottle of modern du vin instead of a 1936 Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
Take all of this with a pinch of salt & in the meaning of jest as it's not a fundamentally serious topic in the grand scheme. However, I think the issue with me is again I've gone from one extreme to the other but I've heard others do marvelous if not incredible things inbetween. So if I've learn't nothing else in the past few decades wading through the mud of audio equipment it's that price means nothing, some expensive stuff I really don't like and vice versa on the cheap side. You find what works and roll, however I'm under no impression that there isn't something out there that's cheaper and better suited to my purposes than the Shelford. I might not find it straight away but part of the fun is messing around with new stuff aye?
Who could ever make a decent record with an RND Portico? Even if the music was good... nobody would buy it once they found out what kind of garbage pre-amp it was recorded on. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 22:42:50 GMT -6
Who could ever make a decent record with an RND Portico? Even if the music was good... nobody would buy it once they found out what kind of garbage pre-amp it was recorded on. Yes, damn that Portico denying me from fame and fortune. It's not me or the music industry at all..
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Post by Ward on Mar 21, 2023 6:15:50 GMT -6
SNIP . . . instead of a 1936 Châteauneuf-du-Pape. [/div] [/quote] The 1996 is a much better wine. |
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Post by Ward on Mar 21, 2023 6:18:28 GMT -6
Who could ever make a decent record with an RND Portico? Even if the music was good... nobody would buy it once they found out what kind of garbage pre-amp it was recorded on. Precisely. As much as I deeply respect the work and legacy of Rupert Neve . . . I never got the hype associated with the Portico stuff. I'll take an audioscape 1290 over one of those. Or a matt@IAA QP5 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2023 14:34:47 GMT -6
Who could ever make a decent record with an RND Portico? Even if the music was good... nobody would buy it once they found out what kind of garbage pre-amp it was recorded on. Precisely. As much as I deeply respect the work and legacy of Rupert Neve . . . I never got the hype associated with the Portico stuff. I hope you're not being serious here, Gravesnumber and I were being sarcastic. |
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Post by svart on Mar 21, 2023 14:58:22 GMT -6
I hesitated to reply here because I don't have a reply that's strictly on topic.. But you could sell ANY of that gear and get along just fine. In fact, I'm even starting to question even needing 3rd party plugins these days. Good music and good mixes are created from skill and knowledge, not gear and settings.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 21, 2023 15:05:17 GMT -6
In fact, I'm even starting to question even needing 3rd party plugins these days. Good music and good mixes are created from skill and knowledge, not gear and settings. I feel the same. The only exception is that some 3rd party plugins aren't replicated in the DAW, like Soothe, MaxxBass, and a handful of others. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 21, 2023 15:13:50 GMT -6
Over the last few years, I have sold a lot of ob, focusing on what I use regularly.
After roughly a decade, shovelling a lot of money into UA’s hopper, I recently sold my last ua gear: my octo and plugs: haven't missed them once.
There is opportunity in change: good to be open to that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2023 15:18:06 GMT -6
I hesitated to reply here because I don't have a reply that's strictly on topic.. But you could sell ANY of that gear and get along just fine. In fact, I'm even starting to question even needing 3rd party plugins these days. Good music and good mixes are created from skill and knowledge, not gear and settings. I have to disagree completely, the reason I went hybrid was to get away from an all ITB setup and y'know what that whole 5% difference is IME anecdotal and far off at best. Now I'm not saying one is better or worse but they do sound entirely different irrelevant of the playback medium. Listen to Seawell's video's, in some instances the differences are quite confusing, as in why are they that far out? When you compound that mutiple times across a chain..
Svart, irrelevant of all of that its never been as easy to get decent results with this setup and that's worth it alone IMO.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 21, 2023 15:32:54 GMT -6
In fact, I'm even starting to question even needing 3rd party plugins these days. Good music and good mixes are created from skill and knowledge, not gear and settings. I feel the same. The only exception is that some 3rd party plugins aren't replicated in the DAW, like Soothe, MaxxBass, and a handful of others. I'm not proud to say that at this point I'm not sure I could do without Soothe. That thing is such a time saver. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 21, 2023 15:50:17 GMT -6
It's a complicated subject in general. I produced an album for a 16 year old student where we used only Logic and the plug-ins that came with it. He had just spent his entire savings on a lovely Les Paul, a cheap mic and interface and Logic, and that was all he had. He couldn't afford to buy one more thing.
The tracks sounded fantastic, kind of like a Coldplay record. But when I listen to my benchmarks, the differences great gear can make become apparent. Put a vintage U67 in a great room with vintage compression and a Neve console and you might get something no amount of experience can duplicate.
That's why I suggested keeping the monitors because no matter what the signal chain is, you need those speakers to do any proper workaround to get the sound you want.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2023 23:24:02 GMT -6
I already have an Octo and most of UAD's plugins, Tokyo Dawn and Ozone etc. NI Komplete comes with some pretty cool mixing plugins as well and then there's the en mass suite's you get with Pro Tools nowaday's. I'm certainly not short in the SW department..
I honestly believe HW makes a massive difference, whether you like what it does to a signal though is a completely different matter. I use O-Zone to reign in all of that tube gear because it can get a bit much at times.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 21, 2023 23:53:45 GMT -6
Actually, I totally agree.
IMHO we* can make great records totally ITB.
But great(er) records still with Hardware.
There was a point were it was best to sell off a small collection of EV666's/RE15's/RE16's and USA made 57/56/546 and 548's...
To raise extra $$ for myself.
This was after they had appreciated considerably.
Not quite what they are today though.
Over the years, also bought/sold/re-bought Oktava 219/319's so I must like them!
Chris
* "we" as in general meaning. Occasionally I can make a nice Demo level vocal capture.
But not on your level, along with the other experienced people here.
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Post by Ward on Mar 22, 2023 5:03:00 GMT -6
Precisely. As much as I deeply respect the work and legacy of Rupert Neve . . . I never got the hype associated with the Portico stuff. I hope you're not being serious here, Gravesnumber and I were being sarcastic. No way. Really? I had no idea... </sarcasm> LOL |
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Post by svart on Mar 22, 2023 9:46:22 GMT -6
I once really, really believed that hardware was the ONLY way. Then I went hybrid. Then I really, really believed hybrid was the only way.
Now I'm pretty much all ITB save for preamps and some processing before the A/Ds but now I realize that it was all mostly wishful thinking, hoping to "purchase the tone". I'm now doing my best work by far now because I'm no longer looking for gear to do it. No longer trying, fiddling with settings but actually losing perspective with every attempt.
Which is what happens.. You spend lots of money and time *looking* for the gear to get the tone you believe you need, so you never look elsewhere but down the same path you've been travelling.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 22, 2023 9:57:49 GMT -6
I once really, really believed that hardware was the ONLY way. Then I went hybrid. Then I really, really believed hybrid was the only way. Now I'm pretty much all ITB save for preamps and some processing before the A/Ds but now I realize that it was all mostly wishful thinking, hoping to "purchase the tone". I'm now doing my best work by far now because I'm no longer looking for gear to do it. No longer trying, fiddling with settings but actually losing perspective with every attempt. Which is what happens.. You spend lots of money and time *looking* for the gear to get the tone you believe you need, so you never look elsewhere but down the same path you've been travelling. Yeah, hardware, hybrid, or ITB one thing doesn’t change: you still have to boss the tones and performances around until they sound like a record. Hopefully a great one. |
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