U47 ish LDC Microphone

Both tracks sound good Tony, with mic quality at this level, the room sound and mic position begins to mean even even more. I can get a good sound with an LDC or an SDC and I'm sure a ribbon, it's my room and mic placement that starts to show the shortcomings. The UAD Ocean Way Studios plug could help with that, but it's out of my current budget reach. In July and August, I'm essentially out of work.

lol. Cowboy... You're the one that's got it made! Probably going to have a platinum selling daughter retire her dad early, a son in the major leagues, and sit around smoking cigars with Bob Ludwig and George Massenburg. And I happen to know you have one of the best mics built, and it's got a pedigree and papers too!

As to the difference between the two mics I built they are identical except for their power supplies and the fact that one uses triode 1 and the other triode 2. One PSU has a 200V secondary (as per the build spec) and the other has a 175V secondary which required a couple of resistor substitutions. The voltage coming out is identical but I can't rule out audible differences caused by that variance. I thought maybe trying a regulated supply would be nifty but david Bock has assured me that, at least for these mics, I wouldn't be all that pleased. Other than that I found two early 50's 5 stars that matched for Gm across triodes and had Tim match a pair of capsules for me. The tube really does make a huge difference in this circuit, and with the slight variations between tubes and capsules I don't think I could get two that sounded closer together. They are like two pieces of the same wood or marble. They are very much the same mic, but each has its' own personality. Overall the C12 sound is unmistakeable.

When you heard them Herbie the triode 2 mic had warmed up for a couple of hours and the triode 1 mic for about 5 minutes so that may have caused some variance too. Add to that differences between 1950s tubes, and subtle capsule differences and that's why they sound different. For me I could take either and be happy. You liked the tride 2 mic but I think triode 1 has a little extra mojo way up top thatcan be nice. The third capsule I got from Tim is a little darker but still gorgeous. Keep in mind one of the reasons AKG stopped making the original CK12s was because it was damn near impossible to make them sound consistently alike. That said I have pairs of mics bought apart that are way different from one another than these C12s.

When Chung gets me the next batch of components I will throw that third capsule in one and send it to your for a drive Herbie.

I am hoping Heiserman gets his fab figured out but his capsules cost what Tim's do so until there are some solid testimonials I think I'll still buy from Tim. He has been awesome and provided superb service and product to me, and I know what I'm getting. I am intrigued by Beesneez CK12 too, but some of their previous issues have me wary. I have no doubt Eric will get things figured out but even Tim was making these things for years before he really started nailing it (according to those who enjoyed them through their growing pains) so It's expected that the Heiserman capsule will evolve and improve over time. You don't just follow the blueprint and get a magic capsule with the CK12. That said, I'm sure it's light years above the chinese edge terminated caps.

You guys should also check out Max's upcoming U47 project. Chunger will soon be offering kits of Max's original MK47 (one of the best designs out there) but Max's new limited run U47 is just unreal. Don't expect it to be cheap, but If you get one I don't think you'll need to be too jealous of your pals who own originals.

I think this sounds nice, your voice is really good Martin, but it's hard to hear the nuance of the mic with all thats applied to the vocal track, and being in the mix, can you put the naked vocal track up? no eq, compression, verb or backing tracks?

just got an email from Tim, my pair of C12 capsules are ready! I KNEW that was going to happen, the MKU47 real deal clone is about to hit any day, and i was hoping to spread that $ over a couple/3 weeks, but nope, looks like this coming week is going to be an expensive week  

Yeah, I just said I was expecting October, so mine went quicker as well, I really wouldn't have cared how long it took if they are as good as the last ones

Man I got buried under work and hadn't checked the forum in a while.  Thought I'd read back through this thread.

Yeah the CK12 can be a bit challenging to recreate.  The hardest part seems to be having a good one to reverse engineer to start with.  CK12s and M7s seem to have a ton of variation to them and I think its all just age.

The CK12 backplate it made up of a few different pieces, which is different from say the M7 or KKxx backplates.  There are two brass pieces which thread together to create an inner backplate chamber.  Those are set inside some form of an acrylic outer ring that is what electrically isolates the tension ring and diaphragm from the backplate.  You have to get the spacings on the backplate pieces just right, and then you have two of them back to back.  So way more "moving parts" so to speak than almost any other capsule really.  I've been told legend of AKG employing watchmakers to build the capsules, that could just be hearsay.  

Your Neumann style backplates lack the chamber of the CK12, and I saw a "C12" style capsule from china once that just looked like they put a smallish 67 type backplate inside a plastic outer ring and called it a day.  That chamber being just right is a huge part of the sound I think, and also a huge place for potential variation.    With the right shop setup, repeatability is certainly very attainable as has been seen from the guys who are making legit CK12 reissues, but definitely more time consuming than other capsule builds.

Don't know if anyone cared for all that info, but thought it'd be interesting to share for those who didn't know.

There are indeed a multitude of minute/miniscule variations between CK12 capsules and in each of the major types (also mentioning M7 and K47/K67 types). But overall, there is a general theme and sound that is pretty darned consistent.

Can we make exact clones these days with better tools that have beyond surgical precision? Sure. But everyone is cloning a different CK12 or M7 to clone and naturally, there will be variations. But that really hasn't changed anything. If Tim Campbell makes 1000 CK12 clones that are all identical to each other, and Joe Blow from Down the Road makes 1000 CK12 clones from a DIFFERENT CK12 capsule, then none of Joe Blow's clones are going to be PRECISELY like Tim Campbell's and vice versa.

But again, how does this become a big deal? If you put 100 CK12 capsules and 1 TC12 capsule together... could anyone really pick out Tim's?

Thanks Tony, I appreciate the feedback a lot. The room sound has been bugging me too, but when I tried the Se Electronics Reflexion Filter, I didn't like it, vocals were just too dull. I'll keep experimenting until I find a happy medium.

I'm kinda up for that Tony. I'll take a look for that at home depot next time I'm nearby.

Dang Tony
Those look pretty!
Tim sure knows how to pack those!

Going to start life as a pair of Elam 251 types, if I prefer my C12 over the Elam, I'll convert one to have a pair of C12's, and a single 251... 
I hope that makes sense?