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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 2:28:03 GMT -6
After using the ISK 2B, U67 and Beyer M88 on guitar cabs I've sort of gone off the Sennheiser MD441-U a bit. Currently I have the M88 on an Orange bass cab, a U67 with an Engl Retro and I'm looking for something to permanently live on a small Marshall 1X12.
Any other magic microphone recommendations? I was seriously impressed with the Beyer. Also I've had plenty of success with LDC's so I'm not limiting this to any type of mic really. Before we start, no I don't want an SM57 or MD-421.. I sold them years back and I'm happy with that decision. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Dec 28, 2022 2:36:19 GMT -6
Austrian Audio OC818 in omni? MBHO MBD 219 SC? Milab VIP-60? Samar Audio VL-37A?
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Post by carymiller on Dec 28, 2022 2:45:10 GMT -6
After using the ISK 2B, U67 and Beyer M88 on guitar cabs I've sort of gone off the Sennheiser MD441-U a bit. Currently I have the M88 on an Orange bass cab, a U67 with an Engl Retro and I'm looking for something to permanently live on a small Marshall 1X12.
Any other magic microphone recommendations? I was seriously impressed with the Beyer. Also I've had plenty of success with LDC's so I'm not limiting this to any type of mic really. Before we start, no I don't want an SM57 or MD-421.. I sold them years back and I'm happy with that decision. Best mic combinations for guitar cabinets I've tried is a three mic solution. 01. Advanced Audio CM49 (Not the LE version, but the original, with the higher headroom), in figure 8 pattern. Straight on the cab. 02. Shure KSM353ED (The rebranded Crowley and Trip El Diablo), also in figure 8. Straight on the cab. 03. Heilsound PR30, off axis (this is like an SM57 on steroids. Just tons more information). The trick is to get them all in phase, so it's a lot of moving things around until it's perfect. But you get a blend that's full bodied and crystal clear this way. You could substitute the CM49 with another LDC, but the trick is putting it in figure 8 so you get those natural dynamic reflections. You can also substitute the KSM353ED with a cheaper ribbon, but you want a ribbon for all those low mids. However a M49 style mic will have more midrange in figure 8 pattern than just about any other LDC design. And midrange is king for guitars. Additionally, the KSM353ED is voiced similarly in curve to a FET47, so it has a ton of great low mids that just fills things out. The Heilsound however. Is super cheap ($250), and just superior to a 57 for the role (*there's a reason Sylvia Massey used them on Tool's Lateralus). Everyone is used to 57's but honestly...you won't go back. I would start there and try whatever else you've got that can fill out the figure 8 patterns first. |
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Post by phdamage on Dec 28, 2022 6:35:07 GMT -6
I always pair bright and dark mics on the same cab, Albini-style. My go to for dark is an Oktavamod apex 205. I wanna try my new 4038s for this but I hear they overload on loud amps.
The bright/other mic varies. 441, m88, m160 but I’ve been playing with tube mics lately - Lawson 47, Stam 47, usually. Ooh, I actually really like U195s in this position also
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Post by sean on Dec 28, 2022 7:48:42 GMT -6
Lots of options...
Condensers I like a Sony C38B, which has pretty low sensitivity so it doesn't clip/overloud like higher output condensers. It's also pretty mellow, as a lot of condensers can rip your ears off on amps. The old Groove Tube MD1 is also pretty cool, it has a cool "grit" to it. Gefell UM70/UMT70 are also excellent on amps. U87's don't suck either, but I think they sound best are more of a "room" mic on the amp, paired with a close mic.
Heil PR30 is a nice choice for a dynamic, as carymiller mentioned.
Recently on smaller combos I've been using an AEA R44CE. You can use it's proximity to your advantage if you need it thicker, or back it off a bit to brighten it up. Cheaper options would be the Shinybox or Cascade Vinjet
I also like BK5B or M160's, which are brighter and much more directional. Not as big a bottom, but both have a midrange bump that works well for amps. And of course there's the Royer R121...
I guess if I had to pick one to LIVE on an amp, it be a PR30. It's affordable and though I haven't had mine a long time, I haven't found any other sources where it beats out other stuff I have. The rest of the microphones I listed are bit more universal
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 28, 2022 8:32:13 GMT -6
I’ve yet to find a better guitar sound than an AEA R92.
I pair mine with the humble SM57 and the pair are a wonderful match for each other.
I use my R92 with the AEA RPQ 500 pre.
When it’s not on a cab, it’s great for percussion and male vocals.
Really, really cool mic.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 28, 2022 8:33:46 GMT -6
Am I the only one who doesn’t like using more than one mic on an amp?
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 28, 2022 8:49:56 GMT -6
"Am I the only one who doesn’t like using more than one mic on an amp?"
No !
I'm the same way, just need one, but make it a good one!
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Post by spindrift on Dec 28, 2022 8:55:30 GMT -6
I’m a one mic guy. If you can find one in decent shape, an old MD409-U3 is really hard to beat on guitar cabs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 8:55:51 GMT -6
I usually go with one mic, yes I've done the whole Metallica style 5000 mic's on a cab when customers requested it but to avoid phase issues if I can only use one I will. sean , yeah I agree. I used the Royer R-121 with Marshall's constantly, they take the edge off which is nice. For a guitar cab mic they are expensive at the moment though, about $1900.00. I can't afford to leave that sort of money on a guitar cab currently, my 67's get moved around a lot and constantly used so I'm fine with it.. I have used most of the common one's though, PR30, UM70, 57, 7B, U87, RE20. thehightenor , that's interesting. How does it sound on a cab by itself? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 8:57:52 GMT -6
Lol, just as I posted that I'm a single mic'er a slurry of responses came out of nowhere  .. |
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Post by nomatic on Dec 28, 2022 8:59:24 GMT -6
The Tul G12 would kill for this....
Best cab mic I have...
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Post by bikescene on Dec 28, 2022 9:06:07 GMT -6
What speaker do you have in your Marshall 1x12?
In my cab with a Greenback/Creamback H, I’ve liked using a Beyerdynamic M201, Sennheiser E906, and Beyerdynamic M160 in place of a Shure SM57. I really like the M201’s thicker sound vs the SM57 on a Greenback. I back off the E906 about an inch off the grill to tame the low end. The M160 works well about 3-4” off the grill for my tastes.
Occasionally, I’ll use a BeesNeez BU87i C (U87-type) for classic rock Marshall-y tones.
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Post by seawell on Dec 28, 2022 9:07:16 GMT -6
BeesNeez BU87 is great on guitar cabs. I either use a stereo pair for cleaner stuff or for heavier stuff pair 1 BU87 with an AEA R92, Cascade Fathead II or a SM57.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 9:17:23 GMT -6
What speaker do you have in your Marshall 1x12? In my cab with a Greenback/Creamback H, I’ve liked using a Beyerdynamic M201, Sennheiser E906, and Beyerdynamic M160 in place of a Shure SM57. I really like the M201’s thicker sound vs the SM57 on a Greenback. I back off the E906 about an inch off the grill to tame the low end. The M160 works well about 3-4” off the grill for my tastes. Zilla 1X12 ported with a G12H creamback, I never liked the SM57 on cabs it sounds like mush to me. I'm quite fond of Beyer stuff at the moment, my headphones are awesome and the M88 is sweet. I'll add the M160 to the list.. |
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 28, 2022 9:34:55 GMT -6
I usually go with one mic, yes I've done the whole Metallica style 5000 mic's on a cab when customers requested it but to avoid phase issues if I can only use one I will. sean , yeah I agree. I used the Royer R-121 with Marshall's constantly, they take the edge off which is nice. For a guitar cab mic they are expensive at the moment though, about $1900.00. I can't afford to leave that sort of money on a guitar cab currently, my 67's get moved around a lot and constantly used so I'm fine with it.. I have used most of the common one's though, PR30, UM70, 57, 7B, U87, RE20. thehightenor , that's interesting. How does it sound on a cab by itself? It sounds great. I’m really into the American session guitarist Tim Pierce. I have a similar set up, my guitar cab and mics are in a different room and I monitor back through my studio monitors. I have a little Radial 2.1 passive mixer where I can blend the two mics. I’m still of the mind if I was allowed only one mic to record electric guitar it would be an SM57 into a 1073. So when I’m tracking I get the sound I want by using the warmth and size of the AEA R92 and then when a part demands a bit more mid bite and rock n roll attitude I roll in the 57. The combination gives me a sound I find very appealing, both on their own are great - together they are magic. The M88 and tube/SS LDC’s are very nice too of course, but I’m a fussy so and so and therefore I put up with the hassle of using two mics and just make sure I pay attention to potential phase issues. Tim Pierce uses a Royer 121 and a SM57, but I prefer the R92. It’s also amp/cab dependant - I’m using a Princeton 68 Custom or a Tone King Imperial mk2 head and cab. Dave Gilmore sticks a Sony 800G on his guitar combo!! |
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Post by bricejchandler on Dec 28, 2022 9:35:36 GMT -6
I find the AEA N22 pretty amazing on high gain 4X12s. No need for a brighter mic it works on its own. Easy to place too.
I like the M160 on small combos but I've never gotten it to work to my liking on large cabs.
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 28, 2022 9:38:16 GMT -6
That M88 is gonna be hard to beat. Set and forget.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 9:45:52 GMT -6
I’m still of the mind if I was allowed only one mic to record electric guitar it would be an SM57 into a 1073. So when I’m tracking I get the sound I want by using the warmth and size of the AEA R92 and then when a part demands a bit more mid bite and rock n roll attitude I roll in the 57. There's not enough fidelity to properly bite IMO, slap up an MD421 and it digs whilst giving a sense of clarity. It's all personal of course and if the aim is Machine Head with a 5150 or something then a 57 comes in handy but I'd still pair it with something else (just in case).
I can happily use an MD421 without another mic, probably a bit bright for a Marshall though.
Buy another one? That is definitely an option. I'm just seeing if there's anything else besides the MD421 / M88 that can give a sense of definition whilst generally sounding good..
Appreciate all the input so far.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 28, 2022 9:52:04 GMT -6
Beyer m201. Fantastic dynamic on lots of sources, like an sm57 except good lol. Like an m88 it’s hard to make it sound bad, but it has its own sound. Works great on snare too.
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Post by christopher on Dec 28, 2022 10:43:54 GMT -6
Fig8 tube mic 6-12 inches off the center of the cone, good for classic 70s rock and bluesy stuff. Anything really
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 28, 2022 10:47:36 GMT -6
I’m still of the mind if I was allowed only one mic to record electric guitar it would be an SM57 into a 1073. So when I’m tracking I get the sound I want by using the warmth and size of the AEA R92 and then when a part demands a bit more mid bite and rock n roll attitude I roll in the 57. There's not enough fidelity to properly bite IMO, slap up an MD421 and it digs whilst giving a sense of clarity. It's all personal of course and if the aim is Machine Head with a 5150 or something then a 57 comes in handy but I'd still pair it with something else (just in case).
I can happily use an MD421 without another mic, probably a bit bright for a Marshall though.
Buy another one? That is definitely an option. I'm just seeing if there's anything else besides the MD421 / M88 that can give a sense of definition whilst generally sounding good..
Appreciate all the input so far.
I know, I'm pretty unfashionable and old school when it comes to a 57 - it sounds great to my ears, I pass over a lot of mics to put up the humble 57 :-) I was admiring Dave Gilmour's "On an Island" album (made with an unlimited budget!) I found a SOS article about the making of it and I wasn't surprised to read the guitar sound was captured with a 57 and a bit of Coles blended in (they should of used an R92 :-) Don't get me wrong, the M88 is fab too, as is a 67,87 and a whole slew of other dynamics .... just not as fab as a 57 .... to my old ears :-) But given the choice, I do favour a ribbon and dynamic blended as it's the best of both worlds. |
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Post by bikescene on Dec 28, 2022 10:48:18 GMT -6
What speaker do you have in your Marshall 1x12? In my cab with a Greenback/Creamback H, I’ve liked using a Beyerdynamic M201, Sennheiser E906, and Beyerdynamic M160 in place of a Shure SM57. I really like the M201’s thicker sound vs the SM57 on a Greenback. I back off the E906 about an inch off the grill to tame the low end. The M160 works well about 3-4” off the grill for my tastes. Zilla 1X12 ported with a G12H creamback, I never liked the SM57 on cabs it sounds like mush to me. I'm quite fond of Beyer stuff at the moment, my headphones are awesome and the M88 is sweet. I'll add the M160 to the list.. The Creamback H is a nice sounding iteration of the H-magnet sound. I’m curious to see which microphone you end up liking on it. |
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Post by robo on Dec 28, 2022 10:58:42 GMT -6
For cleanish Fender tones I like LDC’s on guitar cabs, but for more driven stuff I prefer dynamics and ribbons.
For your Marshall, I’d try a Beyerdynamic M210 and M88. One of them will compliment the amp. Another mic a few feet back off axis can be nice, but which mic so depends on the room IME - could be LDC, SDC, or ribbon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 11:10:15 GMT -6
I know, I'm pretty unfashionable and old school when it comes to a 57 - it sounds great to my ears, I pass over a lot of mics to put up the humble 57 :-) But given the choice, I do favour a ribbon and dynamic blended as it's the best of both worlds. That's what I love about this place, we can agree to disagree and be both friendlier plus better off for it.
You know, I do think I am a bit too harsh on that mic. I just listened to a 20 mic on cab comparison and some of them didn't do too well in its presence. You forget these things, I sold my SM57's off years back when I personally found something better. I can see why it's still a staple though..
In terms of ribbons what about the Beyer M160?
P.S I am listening to all the advice on here, that's a lot of mic's to go through though.  .. |
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