|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 23, 2023 13:25:18 GMT -6
Well…I can get pretty close with my usual stuff…but it’s interesting when you get a new tool and it takes you much less time to get to a place you’re happy with. Like - why am I chasing the sound of a plug that I spent ten minutes with lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by copperx on Jan 23, 2023 14:27:57 GMT -6
Well…I can get pretty close with my usual stuff…but it’s interesting when you get a new tool and it takes you much less time to get to a place you’re happy with. Like - why am I chasing the sound of a plug that I spent ten minutes with lol. What kinds of things are you achieving? Leveling? Smashing things? |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2023 21:27:01 GMT -6
Well…I can get pretty close with my usual stuff…but it’s interesting when you get a new tool and it takes you much less time to get to a place you’re happy with. Like - why am I chasing the sound of a plug that I spent ten minutes with lol. What kinds of things are you achieving? Leveling? Smashing things? I’ve used it on Drumbus and bass…it can get pretty smashy on Drumbus. Was able to approximate it pretty well with the Pulsar 1178 using the side chain eq detector and raising the oversampling. It was fantastic on bass. Got close with the UAD 2254 for bottom end, but man - it’s SO flexible. The knobs do shit. And it really reacts like hardware. You can completely take the point off a snare or big time transients and then slow the attack to get just the point you want. Very, very hardware like. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jan 25, 2023 22:31:15 GMT -6
What kinds of things are you achieving? Leveling? Smashing things? I’ve used it on Drumbus and bass…it can get pretty smashy on Drumbus. Was able to approximate it pretty well with the Pulsar 1178 using the side chain eq detector and raising the oversampling. It was fantastic on bass. Got close with the UAD 2254 for bottom end, but man - it’s SO flexible. The knobs do shit. And it really reacts like hardware. You can completely take the point off a snare or big time transients and then slow the attack to get just the point you want. Very, very hardware like. You notice how softening the knee on the slow detector slows down the release? There’s so much hidden stuff in it and no manual and it’s easy to play with and hard to make sound bad. I haven’t felt this way with a plug since I downloaded Molot. Like the original. The GE was just like even more options and cleaner and with better saturation. |
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Jan 25, 2023 22:42:50 GMT -6
I’ve used it on Drumbus and bass…it can get pretty smashy on Drumbus. Was able to approximate it pretty well with the Pulsar 1178 using the side chain eq detector and raising the oversampling. It was fantastic on bass. Got close with the UAD 2254 for bottom end, but man - it’s SO flexible. The knobs do shit. And it really reacts like hardware. You can completely take the point off a snare or big time transients and then slow the attack to get just the point you want. Very, very hardware like. You notice how softening the knee on the slow detector slows down the release? There’s so much hidden stuff in it and no manual and it’s easy to play with and hard to make sound bad. I haven’t felt this way with a plug since I downloaded Molot. Like the original. The GE was just like even more options and cleaner and with better saturation. it is that vibe of saturation in the Molot that behaves so "hardware-like" that really surprised me. I suppose plugins will just get better and better and seem to be supply-chain proof - except for computer parts! I have not played with the MDWDRC2 as much, because I have a great setting I like on the Kotelnikov, but yes, the MDWDRC2 is also a phenomenal hardware-like plugin. I just need to play with it more. By the way, this is still a compliment to hardware. After all, not too many people are saying as a compliment: "Wow - this hardware sounds like a plugin!" Maybe that day will come as well. |
|
|
|
Post by robsmith on Feb 9, 2023 14:03:46 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by nudwig on Feb 11, 2023 10:44:46 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 11, 2023 22:44:25 GMT -6
Amazing compressor and snappier than MDWDRC2, which is thuddier than Kotelnikov. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 14, 2023 12:32:22 GMT -6
A bit confused. Why is the Timing knob (with “release” written below it) also changing the values of the attack? And what the hell is the Exponent knob?
At the end, he says “a little more peak” and then raises the value of the peak lever. If all the way to the top is considered off, then wouldn’t you say “a little less peak.” I’m more confused now then Before the video.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2023 14:10:20 GMT -6
A bit confused. Why is the Timing knob (with “release” written below it) also changing the values of the attack? And what the hell is the Exponent knob? At the end, he says “a little more peak” and then raises the value of the peak lever. If all the way to the top is considered off, then wouldn’t you say “a little less peak.” I’m more confused now then Before the video. The Timing / Release knob controls the smoothing filter that makes the gain reduction not instant. The attack/release filter on compressors that work is one filter that changes the coefficients based on polarity. The detector sees that the detected volume is higher than what it’s supposed to be when it’s lowered by the ratio so it the attack filter coefficient is used otherwise the release coefficient. It will also pick a value based on time in good compressors (auto releases) and where you turn the knobs. Compressors based on pure voltage without logarithmic timing speed up and slow down on their own thus the sweet spot. MDWDRC2 gives you one knob, preventing you from distorting the sound with disparate coefficients that digital that doesn’t massively oversample can have issues with, eg the Waves SSL bus compressor, and uses logarithmic timings but on a linear curve keeping the true release the same at 10 db down as it is at 1 db. The exponent knob changes the root of the arithmetic mean average used to smooth the two detectors. This means whatever value you set (1-8), the compressor has a window over which it takes all the sample values, squares/cubes/up to 8th power the samples, finds the average value of these, and then the square/cube/whatever root of the average. So instead of being a root mean square compressor like like a DBX 160 (rms is traditional average of electrical power), MDWDRC2 is an root mean whatever you want compressor with two identical detectors that default to root mean squared and root mean cubed. Higher roots better track the real waveform but have a less smooth action. This higher root detector has less distortion than a traditional peak detector but peak detectors can still mangle the audio less on faster, percussive signals than this method by tracking the individual peaks. Digital compressors operating only on 44.1 or 48 khz sample values have major problems when using peak detectors, eg the Waves CLA 76 disgusting action on hard consonants heard in current trash pop. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 14, 2023 14:33:46 GMT -6
Well...I have been using this thing completely wrong. lol And it still sounded great.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2023 14:44:17 GMT -6
I’ve just been using it as a vocal leveler and two bus compressor with with very soft knees on the main detector and as a drum leveler on less soft knees with the faster detector as a limiter. The very soft knee changes something internally with the compressor.
There’s probably some cool way to remix an entire track with this in mastering with the side chain filter and getting the main detector to operate on the tonal content and faster one on the drums.
Dan
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2023 14:50:01 GMT -6
I can’t get this thing to level and smash/snap/smack on drums at the same time like Kotelnikov or brutally level and grittily smash down any overshoots like Oxford Dynamics. This is smooth until you set the release too fast on settings where Oxford Dynamics is the trash compactor version of a dbx 160 into an 1176.
|
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Feb 14, 2023 15:42:40 GMT -6
Update came out today. Not sure what it does though!
And it does make me think about what a great deal kotelnikov is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 18, 2023 13:38:01 GMT -6
MDWDRC2 is a great plug but incredibly overhyped. When it’s endorsed by famous producers who have endorsed junky waveshapers and promoted by Sound on Sound… man… it’s good to get the name out there but having it up with junk waveshaping functions is a disgrace to how cool it can sound. It affects the low end with distortion and thus can have a middy sound. The faster detector used aggressively can alias on higher exponents and be overmodulalted tone killer, unlike Kotelnikov. It’s best as a soft peak limiter and can do so when set way less aggressively than Kotelnikov.
Kotelnikov’s two detectors sound better blended together and the gain reduction is more analog on the Tokyo Dawn compressors than on MDWDRC2 but man if you set that Kotelnikov peak detector attack too slow or too fast, it does sound like an analog vca compressor set incorrectly.
Powair is a smoother BS1770 leveler than MDWDRC2 but it’s jumpier with drums so much harder to use. Drum Leveler is better at what it does than both of them but can require multing Or more tweaking than MDWDRC2 (no editing and multing needed!) to sound natural if it doesn’t work instantly.
Kotelnikov and Powair also have the built in gate in the side chain like Aphex compressors to not bring up bleed or room sounds without killing the sound like an actual gate.
MDWDRC2 is best used not fully transparently ime but as a non-tone killing compressor with a bit of a sound. I love it on two bus, vocals, and drum rooms. It’s too tweaky for a lot of stuff and can too easily be stiff when you harden up the main knee or pumpy with the auto release.
Lookahead doesn’t work in the fully correct proven way either and should he turned off for more natural sound here like with Presswerk.
I love MDWDRC2 but it’s not better than what I already own. It just sounds better in different sources but I think it’s less flexible than Kotelnikov and Molot.. It’s not as good as Aphex comps or many other bang for buck analog compressors you can get modded for a clean signal path. They and the TDR comps are more effortless.
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Feb 18, 2023 20:34:03 GMT -6
MDWDRC2 is a great plug but incredibly overhyped. Asking in a genuine and self-reflective approach, but were you a part of the hype? |
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on Feb 18, 2023 23:48:04 GMT -6
this thing continues to be every bit as good as the 'hype' for me. 🤷🏻♀️
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 18, 2023 23:59:00 GMT -6
MDWDRC2 is a great plug but incredibly overhyped. Asking in a genuine and self-reflective approach, but were you a part of the hype? Yes. I bought into it. Only later did I realize it has a sound and the faster detector makes a rather ineffective limiter compared to a standard lookahead one and you can’t cleanly blend the two detectors aggressively. The main detector that is by default set to RMS is awesome and the secondary detector mainly exists to not overmodulate the audio. The auto release is pumpy and distorted. MDWDRC2 much better if you go in creatively. There’s a lot of amazing creative possibilities like leveling with the first and enhancing the attack with the second but but I would almost want a different setup than a peak crest control for this. I love it on room mics and other things I want to massively compact the dynamic range of without over modulation and excessive pumping. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2023 0:18:48 GMT -6
this thing continues to be every bit as good as the 'hype' for me. 🤷🏻♀️ Yes because you are correlating price with quality. Kotelnikov GE did the same things almost 10 years ago. And it does so more aggressively because the faster detector is a peak detector, it has cleaner auto release and much more creative possibilities for problem solving with the release inertia, frequency dependent ratio, and optional selectively half wave rectifier. Powair did similar things with even less THD but a proper lookahead a few years ago. It has more imd set aggressively but it can be aggressive and has its own unique features An Aphex Compellor does for a similar price and less tweaking. Oxford Dynamics can do something similar too. It just works in totally different way and pumps more on deep gain reductions but again a proper lookahead. Totally different but it does largely the same stuff at the end of the day if you’re careful with gainstaging. More distortion but also has a built in gate and expander so can get the job done faster. Not many know how to set this. MDWDRC2 isn’t really better than these. It’s just different and more money and has a sound of its own. It does a couple things better and a couple things worse. It’s 400 dollars. If it came out 10 years ago before Kotelnikov and Powair maybe I would have a different opinion than “different and over 3 to 30 times the price.” I am not biased. I bought all the plugins at full retail price. Not the Compellor of course. Who would when Rode owns Aphex? Kotelnikov can do larger similar things with its auto hold and a fast attack on insane quality and is more controllable. The only multiple detectors, one vca digital compressors I didn’t buy was the flux and the sonible. Sonible smart was impossible for me to make clean and Flux plugs have too many options that should be hidden behind the scenes to use creatively. There’s not a lot of reason to buy MDWDRC2 because you won’t recoup the cost that easily vs what you probably already own. I didn’t even get into the compressors with peak crest behind the scenes like Presswerk, the Dangerous, and Unisum which is also cool and hard to make bad. Set it aggressively and at worst it sounds like a Distressor but you can make it a psycho multiband distressor. |
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on Feb 19, 2023 1:22:52 GMT -6
this thing continues to be every bit as good as the 'hype' for me. 🤷🏻♀️ Yes because you are correlating price with quality. Kotelnikov GE did the same things almost 10 years ago. And it does so more aggressively because the faster detector is a peak detector, it has cleaner auto release and much more creative possibilities for problem solving with the release inertia, frequency dependent ratio, and optional selectively half wave rectifier. Powair did similar things with even less THD but a proper lookahead a few years ago. It has more imd set aggressively but it can be aggressive and has its own unique features An Aphex Compellor does for a similar price and less tweaking. Oxford Dynamics can do something similar too. It just works in totally different way and pumps more on deep gain reductions but again a proper lookahead. Totally different but it does largely the same stuff at the end of the day if you’re careful with gainstaging. More distortion but also has a built in gate and expander so can get the job done faster. Not many know how to set this. MDWDRC2 isn’t really better than these. It’s just different and more money and has a sound of its own. It does a couple things better and a couple things worse.. It’s 400 dollars. If it came out 10 years ago before Kotelnikov and Powair maybe I would have a different opinion than “different and over 3 to 30x times the price.” I am not biased. I bought all the plugins at full retail price. Not the Compellor of course. Who would when Rode owns Aphex? Kotelnikov can do larger similar things with its auto hold and a fast attack on insane quality and is more controllable. The only multiple detectors, one vca digital compressors I didn’t buy was the flux and the sonible. Sonible smart was impossible for me to make clean and Flux plugs have too many options that should be hidden behind the scenes to use creatively. There’s not a lot of reason to buy MDWDRC2 because you won’t recoup the cost that easily vs what you probably already own. I didn’t even get into the compressors with peak crest behind the scenes like Presswerk, the Dangerous, and Unisum which is also cool and hard to make bad. Set it aggressively and at worst it sounds like a Distressor but you can make it a psycho multiband distressor. The amount of time I saved on bass and vocals during the demo period recoup’d what I paid for drc2 even before I even bought it. And, btw, I also got an nfr from George, so the price correlation thing isn’t, well, a thing. It’s just a damn great processor. powerair kinda sucks. tdr is excellent, but does a very different thing for me. Different sound, different workflow, different use cases. I wouldn’t have paid 400 for it though. |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2023 1:29:53 GMT -6
We are seeing an ironic new trend of “name” peeps either releases expensive plugs ins plus $350 or promoting then, while UA, always a high cost producer, reverses its standard value proposition with different means to provide access to its plug ins at lower much costs.
High cost plug ins for me are red flags and they will really have to prove their worth before I’d drop that coin and anyway, I’d just wait for a sale.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2023 1:45:35 GMT -6
Yes because you are correlating price with quality. Kotelnikov GE did the same things almost 10 years ago. And it does so more aggressively because the faster detector is a peak detector, it has cleaner auto release and much more creative possibilities for problem solving with the release inertia, frequency dependent ratio, and optional selectively half wave rectifier. Powair did similar things with even less THD but a proper lookahead a few years ago. It has more imd set aggressively but it can be aggressive and has its own unique features An Aphex Compellor does for a similar price and less tweaking. Oxford Dynamics can do something similar too. It just works in totally different way and pumps more on deep gain reductions but again a proper lookahead. Totally different but it does largely the same stuff at the end of the day if you’re careful with gainstaging. More distortion but also has a built in gate and expander so can get the job done faster. Not many know how to set this. MDWDRC2 isn’t really better than these. It’s just different and more money and has a sound of its own. It does a couple things better and a couple things worse.. It’s 400 dollars. If it came out 10 years ago before Kotelnikov and Powair maybe I would have a different opinion than “different and over 3 to 30x times the price.” I am not biased. I bought all the plugins at full retail price. Not the Compellor of course. Who would when Rode owns Aphex? Kotelnikov can do larger similar things with its auto hold and a fast attack on insane quality and is more controllable. The only multiple detectors, one vca digital compressors I didn’t buy was the flux and the sonible. Sonible smart was impossible for me to make clean and Flux plugs have too many options that should be hidden behind the scenes to use creatively. There’s not a lot of reason to buy MDWDRC2 because you won’t recoup the cost that easily vs what you probably already own. I didn’t even get into the compressors with peak crest behind the scenes like Presswerk, the Dangerous, and Unisum which is also cool and hard to make bad. Set it aggressively and at worst it sounds like a Distressor but you can make it a psycho multiband distressor. The amount of time I saved on bass and vocals during the demo period recoup’d what I paid for drc2 even before I even bought it. And, btw, I also got an nfr from George, so the price correlation thing isn’t, well, a thing. It’s just a damn great processor. powerair kinda sucks. tdr is excellent, but does a very different thing for me. Different sound, different workflow, different use cases. I wouldn’t have paid 400 for it though. Kotelnikov does more and does more cleaner but has a more aggressive secondary detector (more thd because it’s a peak detector) that’s also cleaner (less digital artifacts) when set faster or with a lower threshold. You can make them sound almost identical at similar settings but Kotelnikov GE remains cleaner at more aggressive settings while MDWDRC2 allows the crazy amount of gain reduction without horrible pumping. Even when leveling drums, it requires more expansion or gating beforehand than Kotelnikov. The potential dual leveler function of MDWDRC2 is cool with two RMS detectors with three different releases is cool but haven’t found it useful yet vs the stock root mean squared and root mean cubed configuration. Powair is weird at first. There’s no ratio. It’s a low distortion leveler with a soft knee lookahead limiter, an overshoot controller, and an adaptive threshold. It does things that the others I mentioned cannot do but course dig in too much on the “compressor” set aggressively and you kill the sound. You have to use all the parts of it to get good consistent sound. It’s a great bus and vocal compressor. I think MDWDRC2 is great. It’s just not worth the 350 I paid for it. Maybe 50-150 bucks. There’s nothing I was doing with it I couldn’t have done with stuff I already own besides the crazy deep smash it does without gritting up like the Oxford dynamics and many analog compressors. MDWDRC2 just hazes up or gets a bright white incandescent lightbulb quality. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2023 1:53:46 GMT -6
We are seeing an ironic new trend of “name” peeps either releases expensive plugs ins plus $350 or promoting then, while UA, always a high cost producer, reverses its standard value proposition with different means to provide access to its plug ins at lower much costs. High cost plug ins for me are red flags and they will really have to prove their worth before I’d drop that coin and anyway, I’d just wait for a sale. The time sink, man hours, hands involved in the development, marketing, and support add up. Not every plugin is made by one guy. |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2023 5:07:12 GMT -6
Sure, there is development time , but $350 usd + is a lot of dough for 1 plug in.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2023 9:31:26 GMT -6
Sure, there is development time , but $350 usd + is a lot of dough for 1 plug in. So buy Kotelnikov GE for 11 to 50 bucks. The main difference in real world use is in the secondary detector and how low you can cleanly set peak crest. |
|
