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Post by thehightenor on Dec 2, 2022 2:55:09 GMT -6
It’s real good. Been doing some bonkers transparent leveling on a wide variety of sources. Can also do bonkers punchy leveling. I’ve even come to appreciate the gui. It’s ugly but very informative and well arranged (if not a bit small) Is it easy to use and understand?
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 2, 2022 6:26:36 GMT -6
It’s real good. Been doing some bonkers transparent leveling on a wide variety of sources. Can also do bonkers punchy leveling. I’ve even come to appreciate the gui. It’s ugly but very informative and well arranged (if not a bit small) Is it easy to use and understand? Nope! 🤣
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 2, 2022 6:45:33 GMT -6
I notice that it retains clarity better while also creating a bigger low end and being smoother when compared to Unisum, DS-1, PA and Shadow Hills Class A. Uses more cpu than all of those too. Offline bounces go way faster with the Class A than any of the others. MDW has the slowest offline bounces and makes me run out of cpu the fastest. It’s like Acustica level cpu usage. I’ll probably end up getting it with Klarna or something like that. Depends how results are for me and everyone over the next week or so.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 2, 2022 7:40:54 GMT -6
Is it easy to use and understand? Nope! 🤣 I had a feeling you might say that! What is it’s main uses?
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Post by ab101 on Dec 2, 2022 11:13:18 GMT -6
Not easy to use in general, but at the same time it was not too difficult for me to improve some drum tracks without doing any harm. Maybe I got lucky? I did not notice any presets that come with it. Some presets would be nice at least for a starting point.
With my limited knowledge of this, so far it is best where clarity is desired with some compression, as well as it can do some added punch.
Others with more capabilities to use this plugin may find other uses.
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Post by Darren Boling on Dec 2, 2022 12:30:34 GMT -6
I saw at the other place they mentioned some instructional videos are coming but in the meantime this video on the 8900 helped me make sense of it, especially the RMS and Peak interaction. I'm really digging the way it pins a vocal (or VO) in place without closing it down, I was able to tame a super dynamic vocal without all the side effects I instinctually expect, at least in this particular instance it was spooky how well it worked. I see the intro price is till the 11th, if this was half that it'd be an instant buy just for the post work I do as I'm already digging it more than POWAIR on dialog.
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Post by copperx on Dec 2, 2022 13:24:32 GMT -6
This is the only thing eating at me : If a compressors function serves only to compress (its clean and color is out of the question) and we assume that it does in fact treat the signal with the attack/release values its telling us it is - then wouldn't it sound exactly the same as another clean compressor that is again treating said signal with accurate attack/release values? Wouldnt the end product be basically the same sonically? I guess I'm wondering if theres an actual inherent sonic gain in the sound of the compression of this plug-in in comparison to previous plug-ins, or if it's convenience/new workflow features that is the draw here
No. Several reasons: * The attack and release curves are all different. There are some standard shapes (logarithmic, linear, s curves) which are determined by formulas, and even the constants in the formulas can be tweaked by the developer. Unless two compressors use the same attack/release curves, things are going to sound different. * Whether the compressor uses peak values, RMS values, or a combination of both in the sidechain. Most compressors use a combination of peak and RMS values to determine the compression amount, and the exact combination is left to the developer. There are several ways of averaging a signal, too. * Attack and release curves could be fully or partially signal-dependent. Especially if there's auto-release involved. The exact configuration is the developer's secret saucee. * The compressor might have subtle filtering or oversampling in the sidechain. Developers can add filtering to the sidechain to achieve a certain behavior, and usually this is not divulged to the user. If you just look at the options in DMG's Compassion and this thread's MDWDRC2, you can get an idea of all of the factors that can affect compression behavior even in a clean compressor.
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 2, 2022 13:27:21 GMT -6
I had a feeling you might say that! What is it’s main uses? I'm having my best results using it to simply reduce dynamic range as transparently as possible. Sorta in a "the musician just played it better" kinda way. It's also an exceptional vocal compre--um, dynamic range controller. Ha. In all seriousness, though, I just don't think of it as a compressor. It sounds too different from other tools with that name. It's got more in common, sonically-speaking, with tools like Ursa Boost. At least to my ears. I love it for fixing dynamics (something that, IMO, compressors kind of actually suck at), and then feeding INTO a compressor for some tone and excitement and envelope shaping and groove enhancing (things that, IMO, compressors are actually kind of great at).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 15:53:25 GMT -6
This is the new shindig. There is no loss in high end clarity when compressing and no crapping up the high end and low mids with aliasing. There is a bit of an irradiated airy quality to drums when compressed heavily just like high end modern hardware minus the distortion from the gain control device. There is low distortion when compressing. There is no high pumping. And it's compressing the highs unlike the Renaissance Compressor and Oxford Dynamics. George Massenburg just charges your credit card 340 dollars flat. No stupid subscriptions to collections of mostly shitty plugins, no layaway.
The Tokyo Dawn stuff? Well the peak paths eats the highs when dug in for better or worse like good VCA comps do. The stuff better than the classics and SSLs. The MDWDRC has an overshoot limit that seems to prevent this and I'm sure you could set the Kotelnikov range to avoid that but Molot GE can certainly smack harder than both of them. You can set MDWDRC so that the slower path with the overshoot limiter smacks hard and use the peak path as a limiter of sorts while Kotelnikov's peak can get snappier but all three are very useful and their various topologies make them good for certain things.
Unisum can't be pushed as hard; it starts to sound like a misfiring Distressor. Weiss DS-1 is basically a special effect color compressor compared to these.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 16:24:22 GMT -6
This is the only thing eating at me : If a compressors function serves only to compress (its clean and color is out of the question) and we assume that it does in fact treat the signal with the attack/release values its telling us it is - then wouldn't it sound exactly the same as another clean compressor that is again treating said signal with accurate attack/release values? Wouldnt the end product be basically the same sonically? I guess I'm wondering if theres an actual inherent sonic gain in the sound of the compression of this plug-in in comparison to previous plug-ins, or if it's convenience/new workflow features that is the draw here
No. Several reasons: * The attack and release curves are all different. There are some standard shapes (logarithmic, linear, s curves) which are determined by formulas, and even the constants in the formulas can be tweaked by the developer. Unless two compressors use the same attack/release curves, things are going to sound different. * Whether the compressor uses peak values, RMS values, or a combination of both in the sidechain. Most compressors use a combination of peak and RMS values to determine the compression amount, and the exact combination is left to the developer. There are several ways of averaging a signal, too. * Attack and release curves could be fully or partially signal-dependent. Especially if there's auto-release involved. The exact configuration is the developer's secret saucee. * The compressor might have subtle filtering or oversampling in the sidechain. Developers can add filtering to the sidechain to achieve a certain behavior, and usually this is not divulged to the user. If you just look at the options in DMG's Compassion and this thread's MDWDRC2, you can get an idea of all of the factors that can affect compression behavior even in a clean compressor. Yes and pretty much every analog compressor that has both a feedback/feedforward switch or a peak/rms switch is basically a design cop out unless it's really two different compressors given that the good feed forward compressors (aka not the DBX 160 and SSL Channel comp or Alesis 3630) are pretty much more controllable, less overshooty feedback compressors. You can make a feed forward compressor behave identically to a feedback compressor with level dependent attack and release. See www.aes.org/e-lib/online/browse.cfm?elib=12380DMG's Compassion is that to the extreme and let's you tweak things that are normally, and should be, behind the scenes. The same with Unisum. Even Molot GE letting you tweak the secondary release and sidechain bleed is too much for the average user.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 16:27:21 GMT -6
I saw at the other place they mentioned some instructional videos are coming but in the meantime this video on the 8900 helped me make sense of it, especially the RMS and Peak interaction. I'm really digging the way it pins a vocal (or VO) in place without closing it down, I was able to tame a super dynamic vocal without all the side effects I instinctually expect, at least in this particular instance it was spooky how well it worked. I see the intro price is till the 11th, if this was half that it'd be an instant buy just for the post work I do as I'm already digging it more than POWAIR on dialog. Powair is a glorified slow compressor into a soft knee limiter. Pretty much a dbx overeasy (honestly Waves vocal rider) into a u73b with a program dependent threshold and transient shaper. It's great for brutalizing dialogue and vocals with no thought and adding a consistent compression effect to a vocal. Pretty one dimensional on drums.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 2, 2022 19:13:15 GMT -6
This is the new shindig. There is no loss in high end clarity when compressing and no crapping up the high end and low mids with aliasing. There is a bit of an irradiated airy quality to drums when compressed heavily just like high end modern hardware minus the distortion from the gain control device. There is low distortion when compressing. There is no high pumping. And it's compressing the highs unlike the Renaissance Compressor and Oxford Dynamics. George Massenburg just charges your credit card 340 dollars flat. No stupid subscriptions to collections of mostly shitty plugins, no layaway. The Tokyo Dawn stuff? Well the peak paths eats the highs when dug in for better or worse like good VCA comps do. The stuff better than the classics and SSLs. The MDWDRC has an overshoot limit that seems to prevent this and I'm sure you could set the Kotelnikov range to avoid that but Molot GE can certainly smack harder than both of them. You can set MDWDRC so that the slower path with the overshoot limiter smacks hard and use the peak path as a limiter of sorts while Kotelnikov's peak can get snappier but all three are very useful and their various topologies make them good for certain things. Unisum can't be pushed as hard; it starts to sound like a misfiring Distressor. Weiss DS-1 is basically a special effect color compressor compared to these. I like the GML for being on the clean side, and the TDR Molot for when I want to have that super glowy vibe. Both have their purposes. Both are like a new stage where plugins are transcending into hardware territory.
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 3, 2022 0:39:09 GMT -6
Been comparing this with the new HY version of Erin from Acustica. Just on mastering. The MDW definitely has a narrower stereo image and more snap, but Erin can get quicker and better results at times for me. They both do a pretty similar job in keeping things smooth and full for the most part. The MDW uses way too much cpu for me to use it in one of my mixes.
Guys on the Acustica Facebook were saying that with some of these new processors that have about double the single core and 50% more multicore power over my overclocked 1700 that they were running dozens of Acustica plugins. Building a new computer with one of these things in it instead of buying lots of plugins is definitely something to consider.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 3, 2022 1:46:07 GMT -6
I saw at the other place they mentioned some instructional videos are coming but in the meantime this video on the 8900 helped me make sense of it, especially the RMS and Peak interaction. I'm really digging the way it pins a vocal (or VO) in place without closing it down, I was able to tame a super dynamic vocal without all the side effects I instinctually expect, at least in this particular instance it was spooky how well it worked. I see the intro price is till the 11th, if this was half that it'd be an instant buy just for the post work I do as I'm already digging it more than POWAIR on dialog. That 8900 video is amazing GM is like Dave Hill - a flippin’ genius! The 8900 made it sound like the girl singer had perfect mic technique. As pointed out these DR devices add nothing to tone and excitement- there’s no artificial micro envelope added. I’ve used Waves Vocal rider a bit like this, but these GML tools are way way more sophisticated. On my mix bus I’ll be sticking with my Thermionic Phoenix MP, but I’m going to save up for this new GM plugin as I’ve always wanted to own a 8900 and this plugin is the closest I’ve seen to an emulation of its concept.
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Post by copperx on Dec 3, 2022 15:05:48 GMT -6
I'm dying to try the MDWDRC2, but I don't have an iLok. I don't want to buy one for $60 just to demo this thing. Is there any other way to get a cheaper key?
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 3, 2022 15:34:01 GMT -6
I'm dying to try the MDWDRC2, but I don't have an iLok. I don't want to buy one for $60 just to demo this thing. Is there any other way to get a cheaper key? Slate used to give you a key if you bought one of their plugins, but I kind of doubt they still do that. Honestly, so many of the better plugins require iLok that at least IMO it's worth having one. Unless you're anti-iLok, of course, which is a respectable position to hold, but you then just have to forgo any plugins that use it.
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 3, 2022 16:36:53 GMT -6
I'm dying to try the MDWDRC2, but I don't have an iLok. I don't want to buy one for $60 just to demo this thing. Is there any other way to get a cheaper key? I think George mentioned in the GS thread they're working on iLok machine authorization, so at some point you'll probably be able to demo without having a physical key.
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Post by copperx on Dec 3, 2022 17:07:58 GMT -6
I'm dying to try the MDWDRC2, but I don't have an iLok. I don't want to buy one for $60 just to demo this thing. Is there any other way to get a cheaper key? Slate used to give you a key if you bought one of their plugins, but I kind of doubt they still do that. Honestly, so many of the better plugins require iLok that at least IMO it's worth having one. Unless you're anti-iLok, of course, which is a respectable position to hold, but you then just have to forgo any plugins that use it. I have several plugins that use iLok Cloud, but are there any others that are physical iLok only? Now that I think of it, getting a physical iLok might be a good idea for offline only use.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Dec 3, 2022 22:42:20 GMT -6
Going to try this one out on vocals for sure. GUI sucks balls but I'll get past that in the demo.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Dec 6, 2022 20:53:12 GMT -6
This thing is damn good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2023 11:34:51 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2023 16:08:07 GMT -6
gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=16277457&postcount=242Wow very interesting stuff. Only “release” directly modifies the rate of change, which itself is dependent on the “attack” which is the “variable exponent” in the “variable exponent averager”. I guess “release” is close to “timing” from GML 8900 faceplate?
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Post by copperx on Jan 20, 2023 16:59:41 GMT -6
Of those 3 I would be putting Echo Farm at the top of the list. One of my secret weapons. I keep buying delays, but none have the ease and sound of Echo Farm for me. Echo Farm on sale for $99. (Still a lot of $ I suppose, but I have tried so many of these that do not do the job, I have to check this out.) If you like Amp Farm, it contains all of the Echo Farm delays except one. Might be a better deal when it goes on sale.
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Post by copperx on Jan 20, 2023 20:32:16 GMT -6
I'm thinking that this might be a better manual than anything published by MDW so far, if you're technically inclined.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 23, 2023 11:32:33 GMT -6
Well...shiiiit.
Now I gotta buy this. Not even knowing what I'm doing with it, I can make my drum bus and bass sound immediately better.
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