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Post by sirthought on Mar 8, 2023 15:29:54 GMT -6
Yes, but that's the policy for UAD2 as well. You can sell an Apollo or Satellite with plugins included, but that's basically a buyer/seller agreement, and you are essentially gifting the rights of the plugins to the buyer.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 8, 2023 16:27:33 GMT -6
Not certain we are having the same conversation.
I am not aware of any other plug in developer that does allow you to sell your plug ins.
UA has decided that if you buy uadx, like the new bundles or any uadx plug in, you can't sell it: period.
Does the new to UA UADX client understand this. I doubt it.
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Post by Quint on Mar 8, 2023 17:08:09 GMT -6
Not certain we are having the same conversation. I am not aware of any other plug in developer that does allow you to sell your plug ins. UA has decided that if you buy uadx, like the new bundles or any uadx plug in, you can't sell it: period. Does the new to UA UADX client understand this. I doubt it. My point was that you're not buying UADx (that was never an option), just like you're not buying UAD-2 (anymore). You're effectively buying a new product, (let's call it UAD-Z) that happens to include both versions. The customer's intended use (native and/or DSP) is really irrelevant to the discussion. So I think what UA is trying to say is that you can't split the native plugins off from the dsp ones and sell them independently. The native and DSP are now one in the same (UAD-Z) and, if they are to be sold, must be sold as one in the same, as an all or nothing deal. Which, frankly,makes sense. You're buying them together as a package, and they work together as a package, so they should be sold as a package. What you can do, as far as I'm still aware, and which is what you were always able to do, is to sell your DSP plugins, which also happen to now include native versions of those same plugins too (UAD-Z), as part of a package deal. So, maybe the real distinction to be made here is whether or not you own an Apollo, as far as selling used plugins is concerned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Apollo owners can still sell their UAD-Z plugins, same as always, but non-Apollo owners may not sell their UAD-Z plugins. Additionally, no one, whether they own an Apollo or not, may separate their UADx plugins and sell them "alone", independent of the UAD-2 DSP plugins. It's an all or nothing deal. Granted, I understand why that might not set well with non-Apollo owners, but I'm just trying to provide some clarification as well as gain some clarification for myself too. I seem to remember some conversations about this going on, between Drew and whomever else, either on the UADforum or on GS, but I can't seem to find them now. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 8, 2023 17:42:18 GMT -6
I can go on the ua site now and buy uad2 plugs and if that plug is in the sub plan, also get the uadx version . So, I can run sharc or native.
I can sell the uad2 plug and when I do the uadx version goes with the uad2 license.
I can also go on the site and buy a uadx plug in, that I cannot sell. It only runs natively.
While the buyer may appreciate the lower price, i don’t see how not being able to sell a plug in is a good thing nor how it creates advantage for anyone, other than UA.
What happens if a uadX owner buys an apollo and or wants to run uad2 or what ever happens with the next gen apollo: will ua introduce a prorated discount price for uadx owners who want to but the uad2 version or will they have to pay regular price ?
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Post by Quint on Mar 8, 2023 18:06:15 GMT -6
I can go on the ua site now and buy uad2 plugs and if that plug is in the sub plan, also get the uadx version . So, I can run sharc or native. I can sell the uad2 plug and when I do the uadx version goes with the uad2 license. I can also go on the site and buy a uadx plug in, that I cannot sell. It only runs natively. While the buyer may appreciate the lower price, i don’t see how not being able to sell a plug in is a good thing nor how it creates advantage for anyone, other than UA. What happens if a uadX owner buys an apollo and or wants to run uad2 or what ever happens with the next gen apollo: will ua introduce a prorated discount price for uadx owners who want to but the uad2 version or will they have to pay regular price ? But, I think you're missing the point that, other than the handful of native only plugins like Ravel or Shape (which UA has never indicated will be anything other than native), there no longer is such a thing as "buying a UAD-2 plugin" and there never has been such a thing as "buying a UADx" plugin. They are one in the same, as far as the purchase goes. You purchase the package, which comes with both, or you purchase neither. If you are not an Apollo owner but do own a UAD plugin (UADx, as you're referring to it), if/when you do one day a buy an Apollo, there is no additional UAD-2 plugin license to buy. You already have it laying in wait, right there in your account. At least that's how I understand it, and I seem to remember Drew saying something to that effect. Case in point. This is what you see on the Hitsville Reverb page if you go there.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 8, 2023 18:50:04 GMT -6
how am i missing the point, what part of there are two versions of uad plug ins ( uad2 and uadx) ,do you not perceive?
they are not one and the same, they run differently , cost different amounts and have different characteristics, one can be sold, the other cannot.
Anyway, we are beating this horse to death.
I’ll be interested to see what happens if uadx only owners buy apollos with their plug in buying price options.
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Post by Quint on Mar 8, 2023 18:52:58 GMT -6
how am i missing the point, what part of there are two versions of uad plug ins ( uad2 and uadx) ,do you not perceive? they are not one and the same, they run differently , cost different amounts and have different characteristics, one can be sold, the other cannot. Anyway, we are beating this horse to death. I’ll be interested to see what happens if uadx only owners buy apollos with their plug in buying price options. From the standpoint of purchasing, they are one in the same. See above in my previous post. I screenshotted the Hitsville Reverb page, which comes in both native and DSP format. It clearly states that you get both ("Included Versions"). No differentiation is made on what kind of customer you are or how you will use the plugin, whether that be native, DSP or both. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 9, 2023 3:03:09 GMT -6
We are comparing uad2 ( non native) to uadx (native processing) purchasing option, Your example is only of the uad2 purchase ( which includes the uadx plug in).
They ( uad2 and uadx) are only the same price today, because of UA's new sale, when launched the native plug ins were cheaper and the native bundles are advertised as cheaper, for example the Creative Bundle is advertised as a savings over $1400, we will see what UA's sales continue,
Having the uad2 and uadx plugs at the same price is actually not fair to the uadx buyer, as they only get that version and cannot sell that plug in, the UAD2 buyer, also gets the uadx. and can sell.
I thought that was why UA priced the uadX plugs lower. I saw that as UA's right off the boat selling native strategy to new clients, who wouldn't understand the implications of their purchases decisions,
Anyway we obviously see this differently, hope the new Apollo delivers what you want.
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Post by Quint on Mar 9, 2023 7:03:27 GMT -6
We are comparing uad2 ( non native) to uadx (native processing) purchasing option, Your example is only of the uad2 purchase ( which includes the uadx plug in). They ( uad2 and uadx) are only the same price today, because of UA's new sale, when launched the native plug ins were cheaper and the native bundles are advertised as cheaper, for example the Creative Bundle is advertised as a savings over $1400, we will see what UA's sales continue, Having the uad2 and uadx plugs at the same price is actually not fair to the uadx buyer, as they only get that version and cannot sell that plug in, the UAD2 buyer, also gets the uadx. and can sell. I thought that was why UA priced the uadX plugs lower. I saw that as UA's right off the boat selling native strategy to new clients, who wouldn't understand the implications of their purchases decisions, Anyway we obviously see this differently, hope the new Apollo delivers what you want. Can I just ask, did you look at the screenshot I provided two posts up from this one? If not, I'm providing it here as well.
What do you make of this? I'm specifically asking about the part where it says "Included Versions". Right below that, it shows that both the native and DSP versions are included. This is for the Hitsville Reverb plugin, FYI. Or, alternatively, can you go to the UA website and point me to where there is even an option to buy a UADx version (sans UAD-2)? I haven't seen it.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 9, 2023 7:32:54 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Mar 9, 2023 8:04:59 GMT -6
I'm not talking about buying UAD-2 and getting UADx either. I'm talking about the fact that there is no such thing anymore as buying one or the other, and that goes for buying UAD-2 or UADx. I just think you're stuck in this idea that somehow you can just buy UADx (without the UAD-2 coming along). That's not the case. If you buy that bundle, though this would also apply to purchases of individual plugins too, you get the UADx AND UAD-2 versions for those plugins in that bundle. I don't understand why you think that you only get the UADx version? Can you point me to where you've read that? I'm happy to be proven wrong on this, but I've not seen any evidence that this is the case. That link you provided says nothing about only getting UADx either. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 9, 2023 8:35:25 GMT -6
I agree what Ua means by native could be clearer, but its website continues to distinguish between native (uadx)and uad2.
As you can only (theoretically), sell ua plug ins with hardware, someone who buys to run natively likely doesn’t have hardware, so unless ua changes its rules, won’t be able to sell, unless they sell their account.
If as you have said, the new apollo drops with arm and other features, we’ll see how processing gets done, but a hybrid dsp model seems, most probable: on board and native.
Guess the wild card is whether they stick with current sharc or new chip and or new company?
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 9, 2023 8:53:44 GMT -6
I'm not talking about buying UAD-2 and getting UADx either. I'm talking about the fact that there is no such thing anymore as buying one or the other, and that goes for buying UAD-2 or UADx. I just think you're stuck in this idea that somehow you can just buy UADx (without the UAD-2 coming along). That's not the case. If you buy that bundle, though this would also apply to purchases of individual plugins too, you get the UADx AND UAD-2 versions for those plugins in that bundle. I don't understand why you think that you only get the UADx version? Can you point me to where you've read that? I'm happy to be proven wrong on this, but I've not seen any evidence that this is the case. That link you provided says nothing about only getting UADx either. I’m curious about this, because as someone who doesn’t own any UAD DSP hardware, I would be purchasing a plugin now for native use, but what if I buy a Satellite in the future? It seems to me this is where the two of you are disagreeing. Quint thinks I would be able to just use that plugin (well, the “UAD-2” version) on the Satellite with no problem. kcatthedog thinks I would have to purchase some sort of upgrade to have access to the version that runs on UAD DSP. Presumably only one of you is right. I wonder which of you it is? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 9, 2023 9:33:13 GMT -6
Not exactly  I think Quint is right that if you purchase the Native running uadX , you also get the uad2 license, It is the uad2 license that currently needs a sharc chip to run on, either in a satellite or in an Apollo. Only the subscription plan plugs ins are uadx. So bare that in mind when picking your plugs ins. Or try the subscription plan for a month or buy one of the new native bundles as they are subsets of the subscription plan. The only wild card is what will change if UA drops a new Apollo at namm, but as I said I think the hybrid processing model is here for sometime, |
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Post by sirthought on Mar 9, 2023 10:27:27 GMT -6
I'm not talking about buying UAD-2 and getting UADx either. I'm talking about the fact that there is no such thing anymore as buying one or the other, and that goes for buying UAD-2 or UADx. I just think you're stuck in this idea that somehow you can just buy UADx (without the UAD-2 coming along). That's not the case. If you buy that bundle, though this would also apply to purchases of individual plugins too, you get the UADx AND UAD-2 versions for those plugins in that bundle. I don't understand why you think that you only get the UADx version? Can you point me to where you've read that? I'm happy to be proven wrong on this, but I've not seen any evidence that this is the case. That link you provided says nothing about only getting UADx either. I’m curious about this, because as someone who doesn’t own any UAD DSP hardware, I would be purchasing a plugin now for native use, but what if I buy a Satellite in the future? It seems to me this is where the two of you are disagreeing. Quint thinks I would be able to just use that plugin (well, the “UAD-2” version) on the Satellite with no problem. kcatthedog thinks I would have to purchase some sort of upgrade to have access to the version that runs on UAD DSP. Presumably only one of you is right. I wonder which of you it is? You aren't purchasing one or the other. You buy the plugin, you have access to both formats. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 9, 2023 11:07:09 GMT -6
I’m curious about this, because as someone who doesn’t own any UAD DSP hardware, I would be purchasing a plugin now for native use, but what if I buy a Satellite in the future? It seems to me this is where the two of you are disagreeing. Quint thinks I would be able to just use that plugin (well, the “UAD-2” version) on the Satellite with no problem. kcatthedog thinks I would have to purchase some sort of upgrade to have access to the version that runs on UAD DSP. Presumably only one of you is right. I wonder which of you it is? You aren't purchasing one or the other. You buy the plugin, you have access to both formats. Correct. That's what I've been saying as well. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 9, 2023 11:09:33 GMT -6
Not exactly I think Quint is right that if you purchase the Native running uadX , you also get the uad2 license, It is the uad2 license that currently needs a sharc chip to run on, either in a satellite or in an Apollo. Only the subscription plan plugs ins are uadx. So bare that in mind when picking your plugs ins. Or try the subscription plan for a month or buy one of the new native bundles as they are subsets of the subscription plan. The only wild card is what will change if UA drops a new Apollo at namm, but as I said I think the hybrid processing model is here for sometime, Ok. So are we in agreement now that every purchaser gets both the UADx and UAD-2 license? Because that was my central point all along. And just to add a point of clarification, you can't buy UADx. To phrase it as "buy UADx" implies that it's a possibility to buy UADx independent of UAD-2. That's why I keep saying that you just make a UAD (NOT UADx or UAD-2) purchase and get both versions. There is no such thing as buying a UADx license, well except for the handful of plugins that ONLY exist in UADx format, like some of the instruments. But if it exists in both formats, you get both formats from a single purhcase, bottom line. This is no different than other plugins you've purchased in the past where you get a VST and AU version. Softube doesn't, as an example, charge you for the VST plugin and then upcharge you later when you want the AU version. They come together as a package deal, and you use whichever one you want, or both. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 9, 2023 12:39:03 GMT -6
Yes, i think ua referring to them as native when that means uadx and only indicating the uad2 comes with it 1-2 screens into faq could be clearer.
I guess we just see this differently, the non apollo owner doesn’t care if the get uad2, they are buying the uadx , plug and that’s what they will look for in and open in their daw.
Ua has never had 2 versions of its plugs for sale at the same time before, so , no I don’t agree its the same as other companies, as this is that whole ua sea change that we also disagree about.
Always having multiple versions, all of which ran natively and did not require additional, expensive, dedicated processing (uad2), is very different than a company , launching new versions of its largely preexisting plugins that for the first time run natively.
I do understand UA’s, “what, me worry”?, downplaying of this very fundamental change, but have never shared that view.
Anyway, running or not running UA, is a choice as long as our workflow and tools work for us as we want , that’s what counts.
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Post by Quint on Mar 9, 2023 13:07:42 GMT -6
Yes, i think ua referring to them as native when that means uadx and only indicating the uad2 comes with it 1-2 screens into faq could be clearer. I guess we just see this differently, the non apollo owner doesn’t care if the get uad2, they are buying the uadx , plug and that’s what they will look for in and open in their daw. Ua has never had 2 versions of its plugs for sale at the same time before, so , no I don’t agree its the same as other companies, as this is that whole ua sea change that we also disagree about. Always having multiple versions, all of which ran natively and did not require additional, expensive, dedicated processing (uad2), is very different than a company , launching new versions of its largely preexisting plugins that for the first time run natively. I do understand UA’s, “what, me worry”?, downplaying of this very fundamental change, but have never shared that view. Anyway, running or not running UA, is a choice as long as our workflow and tools work for us as we want , that’s what counts. Well I wasn't really ever trying to talk about any of that stuff you were just talking about though. I was just trying to establish that one purchase gets you both versions. That really is all. You were saying that a UADx owner would have to separately pay for the UAD-2 version at a later date, if/when they ever bought an Apollo and wanted to use that same plugin in UAD-2 format. That's what I was disagreeing with. I'm not even necessarily disagreeing with you on at least some of that other stuff you're talking about, anyway. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 22, 2023 12:50:58 GMT -6
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 22, 2023 13:13:22 GMT -6
That's good news. Makes sense that UAD would incentivize you to buy their hardware. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 22, 2023 15:16:00 GMT -6
That's good news. Makes sense that UAD would incentivize you to buy their hardware. It also makes sense that you would just make one purchase, and get both, regardless of whether you're intended use is native, DSP, or both. It makes everything more simple. |
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Post by bossanova on Dec 20, 2023 20:41:47 GMT -6
So Drew, definitive question: can Spark users without UAD hardware buy the individual Spark plugs outright and have them stay working even if they cancel the subscription? Not currently. Hey Drew, follow up: any hope of an iLok machine authorization option for perpetual licenses? I.e., not requiring USB or being online? |
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Post by Drew @ UA on Dec 21, 2023 7:02:05 GMT -6
Hey Drew, follow up: any hope of an iLok machine authorization option for perpetual licenses? I.e., not requiring USB or being online? We never say never, but there is no news to share at this time. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 21, 2023 7:24:55 GMT -6
This seems confusing.
I have no hardware and bought the Signature bundle during the last sale.
It includes , i believe all the uadx plugs currently in the subscription plan or all the plugs that ua has made native and I have perpetual licenses as I am not in the subscription plan.
I have to use ua connect to download and install, as they are uadx.
In ilok, i can choose to Manage their authorization location: cloud, dongle or on my computer. If, on my computer, I will have no cloud issues running those plugs, as my system and its authorizations are computer not cloud based: correct ?
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