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Post by Quint on Nov 29, 2021 13:21:46 GMT -6
Yeah, it would be on different DAWs though. The whole reason I would be doing this in the first place would be to run Luna on Mac and then Reaper on PC. If Luna were available on PC, I'd just stick with my PC. Aaaah - no simple task, I would imagine. I would note that I'm absolutely not familiar with how UAD integrates with a third party DAW vs. how it works in Luna; but I would hope and I imagine others can chime in, that the DSP settings could be snapshot/saved/etc. and loaded in the other instance. If not - that's probably going to be the first annoyance you'll deal with. I'm not really hip on what DAW's can do nowadays with foreign session files. Coming from Pro Tools, which is always features behind the competition, and still has hiccups importing OMF and AAF files from other DAWs or NLEs. But my guess is that you'd be losing all plugin settings/assignments and what not going from DAW to DAW. So if it's a one-way street, you could commit/bounce everything you need in one down to finish it in the final DAW. Yeah, that's what I feared. Likely more than I would want to do on a regular basis.
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Post by ml on Nov 29, 2021 15:49:10 GMT -6
Just know that if you buy a new Mac, you can’t downgrade from Monterey to Big Sur. At least that’s what the apple tech told me. At least on the new M1Max/Pro architecture, right? I'll be attempting to downgrade to Big Sur on my M1 mac mini as soon as it gets in, but you may be right. This one is BTO, so if it's across all M1 macs, I will probably have the same issue. The Mini comes with Big Sur. I actually did a clean upgrade to Monterey on mine when I got it. I saw a few videos that stated Monterey was better optimized for Apple Silicon and applications were opening faster than on Big Sur during their testing.
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Post by enlav on Nov 29, 2021 16:13:25 GMT -6
The Mini comes with Big Sur. I actually did a clean upgrade to Monterey on mine when I got it. I saw a few videos that stated Monterey was better optimized for Apple Silicon and applications were opening faster than on Big Sur during their testing. brilliant news. Gives me the less burdensome choice of staying on big sur or upgrading right away.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 29, 2021 17:17:02 GMT -6
A new mini should come with Monterey now ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 29, 2021 17:22:44 GMT -6
UA doesn’t typically have problems working with other daws, that’s what it did before Luna. I used Apollo with protools, studio one and logic.
UA console just acts as the front end to your daw for low latency tracking. You can print or monitor with UA plugs in console while tracking. Then mix in your daw of choice and add UA plugs as you go.
Or just do everything in Luna .
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 29, 2021 18:15:28 GMT -6
A new mini should come with Monterey now ? I got an late 2020 still with big sur....
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 29, 2021 18:41:35 GMT -6
Understood, me too, but if someone orders one now, it will likely have Monterey.
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Post by brenta on Nov 30, 2021 15:21:54 GMT -6
DPReview just posted a review of the M1X Max Macbook Pro. They are a well-known review site for video and photography gear and I've come to trust their reviews over the years. The review is focused on video and photography work of course, but there is still lots of useful info in there. They compare the Macbook Pro against two top PC laptops (Dell XPS and MSI Creator), and run them through a gamut of real-world tests both plugged in and on battery. Some key takeaways: The new M1X Macbook Pro's display is incredible. The M1X Macbook Pros don't lose any performance when running off battery while the PCs do. The battery life on the Macbooks is also far superior. The M1X Macbook Pros generally compete with or smoke the PCs' performance, but not 100% of the time. The M1X Macbook Pros are by far the most expensive. DPReview--"Taken individually, the CPU cores and GPU cores of the M1 Max can't quite keep up with the best that Intel and AMD can currently offer. But no computing task exists in a vacuum, and the combination of CPU speed, GPU speed, and unified memory with 400GB/s bandwidth that is fully accessible by both the CPU and GPU makes the M1 Max the fastest laptop we've ever tested on the vast majority of creative tasks. With one or two minor exceptions, it outperformed the competition by a huge margin while draining far less battery and making far less noise. The fans barely ever spin up, and even when they do they make almost no noise. Meanwhile, both the MSI and Dell sounded like they were trying to take off from the desk during every export run, and you saw the battery drain figures for yourself, earlier in this review. There's no two ways about it, the M1 Max is the performance champ we expected it to be. It can legitimately cut your rendering and export times in half compared to the largest, most powerful, and heaviest PC laptops on the market... and it can do it on battery." www.dpreview.com/reviews/laptop-review-m1-max-macbook-pro-2021-back-with-a-vengeance?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 2, 2021 6:25:10 GMT -6
DPReview just posted a review of the M1X Max Macbook Pro. They are a well-known review site for video and photography gear and I've come to trust their reviews over the years. The review is focused on video and photography work of course, but there is still lots of useful info in there. They compare the Macbook Pro against two top PC laptops (Dell XPS and MSI Creator), and run them through a gamut of real-world tests both plugged in and on battery. Some key takeaways: The new M1X Macbook Pro's display is incredible. The M1X Macbook Pros don't lose any performance when running off battery while the PCs do. The battery life on the Macbooks is also far superior. The M1X Macbook Pros generally compete with or smoke the PCs' performance, but not 100% of the time. The M1X Macbook Pros are by far the most expensive. DPReview--"Taken individually, the CPU cores and GPU cores of the M1 Max can't quite keep up with the best that Intel and AMD can currently offer. But no computing task exists in a vacuum, and the combination of CPU speed, GPU speed, and unified memory with 400GB/s bandwidth that is fully accessible by both the CPU and GPU makes the M1 Max the fastest laptop we've ever tested on the vast majority of creative tasks. With one or two minor exceptions, it outperformed the competition by a huge margin while draining far less battery and making far less noise. The fans barely ever spin up, and even when they do they make almost no noise. Meanwhile, both the MSI and Dell sounded like they were trying to take off from the desk during every export run, and you saw the battery drain figures for yourself, earlier in this review. There's no two ways about it, the M1 Max is the performance champ we expected it to be. It can legitimately cut your rendering and export times in half compared to the largest, most powerful, and heaviest PC laptops on the market... and it can do it on battery." www.dpreview.com/reviews/laptop-review-m1-max-macbook-pro-2021-back-with-a-vengeance?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_sourceSome real life use expereince now...
I am not owning the M1X but the M1 / 16 GB.
In the beginning I was a bit too optimistic, but its still very very impressive for a small computer.
It can do way more tasks on 4 kernals comapred to my old mac tower (8 times 3,6 GHZ Intel) on eight kernals. Its not hitting the 12 kernal tower, but its close....
Intresting is:
In Logic X setting the Kernal organisation to Automatic (4Kernals) seems to organize CPU power very intelligent. CPU Meter hits top but everything runs flawless graphics on top are just WoW. Makes the impression that the CPU is mannaged just in the moment. That may will be optimized with upcomming OSX.
But its already now, not bummer even if my first impression was too optimistic. Some sessions need freezing but HEJ, the overall performance and feel in working is not to comapre with the older Intel technology.
I am pretty optimistic that we see better CPU inventions in the near future.
GO Apple - I LOVE it.
All in the spirit of S. Jobs.
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Post by enlav on Dec 2, 2021 8:05:25 GMT -6
But its already now, not bummer even if my first impression was too optimistic.I'm trying to keep my expectations somewhat tempered. For all things audio, the overall workflow should be better, going from a 10 year old server processor with equally old components to the M1. My frankenstein tower has 32 GB of ram, but the CPU bottle neck is just too much for it. For video, I'm inclined to think that this is going to be more lateral or even a slight downgrade in certain aspects. Going from a 980ti down to the M1's sort of built-in GPU will certainly mean slower render times and possibly slower processing on certain applications where the multithreading on the xeon actually worked to its best. But to be honest, as long as the M1 can process a 1080p60 encode to whatever RTMP server needed, I'll be happy. Worst case scenario, I need to upgrade the camlinks to the Atem Mini (pro), which would increase camera capacity and give me an alternative method of transmission/streaming. If I can get everything running fine on this mac mini, that means I can sell my MBP, and then actually start swapping processors in my frankenstein tower/server. I haven't wanted to do it myself for the longest time, because I'm deathly afraid of working on PCs when I actually rely on them. It's funny to think I've repaired a recording console's power supply, but the pins on a CPU make me anxious.My M1 mini arrived yesterday -- I just have to wrap up a few projects, jobs, and wait for a new UPS to come in, and then I'll have it up and running.
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Post by popmann on Dec 2, 2021 9:08:05 GMT -6
Of COURSE this is a downgrade from an 8700k. Review the only video I posted in this thread, by one of the only Apple Logic users on the Youtube who obviously knows how the app works.
For audio DSP, guy got 2 Abbey Road Plates in series and 4 on their own Auxes (so parallel)….my vanilla 8700 does 3 in series and i stopped after 12 on their own auxes, because frankly, point was made. An 8700k could probably get a fourth in series, due to a little faster boost clock—and mine could do the fourth, but it broke up a little….and I don't count “almost”…
See the guy load his big SD3 preset in 4sec? Mine took 6 to load that. A new PCIe4 motherboard and drive is the difference vs the pcie3 nvme in a Coffee Lake system.
These chips represent wonderful performance per watt. Thats not some new level of DSP performance. Those arent even in the ballpark of the same thing.
I mean if you want to run Luna, sure, you need a Mac and this will be more suitable than say the last baseline mobile chips. Its hard to say how much real world downgrade it will be, since youre using UAD, which will bottleneck long before a modern intel chip. But, technically, you will have less audio floating point DSP at your disposal vs the 8700k….and less RAM for sample buffering unless you get a Pro w/32gb. Your nvme drives in a TB sled will not have the speed theyhave on the pcie bus in the PC.
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2021 10:36:40 GMT -6
Of COURSE this is a downgrade from an 8700k. Review the only video I posted in this thread, by one of the only Apple Logic users on the Youtube who obviously knows how the app works. For audio DSP, guy got 2 Abbey Road Plates in series and 4 on their own Auxes (so parallel)….my vanilla 8700 does 3 in series and i stopped after 12 on their own auxes, because frankly, point was made. An 8700k could probably get a fourth in series, due to a little faster boost clock—and mine could do the fourth, but it broke up a little….and I don't count “almost”… See the guy load his big SD3 preset in 4sec? Mine took 6 to load that. A new PCIe4 motherboard and drive is the difference vs the pcie3 nvme in a Coffee Lake system. These chips represent wonderful performance per watt. Thats not some new level of DSP performance. Those arent even in the ballpark of the same thing. I mean if you want to run Luna, sure, you need a Mac and this will be more suitable than say the last baseline mobile chips. Its hard to say how much real world downgrade it will be, since youre using UAD, which will bottleneck long before a modern intel chip. But, technically, you will have less audio floating point DSP at your disposal vs the 8700k….and less RAM for sample buffering unless you get a Pro w/32gb. Your nvme drives in a TB sled will not have the speed theyhave on the pcie bus in the PC. These are ALL things I kind of suspected. Not knowing Macs, and whatever magic juju this new direct link between ram and drive is supposed to have with the M1 architecture, I wasn't sure how to take comments here in this thread or wherever else I've read comparisons on the internet. You're helping to confirm my suspicions that some of the pro Mac comments in this thread are viewing the M1 with rose colored glasses. I mean, really? A 256/512gb, 16gb ram M1 Mini with samples hosted on an external drive is going to perform as well or better than my current 8700k 32gb (upgradeable to 128gb) with internal NVMe drives for hosting samples? Thanks for the dose of reality. I know you know your stuff when it comes to VIs and latency. I was already leaning towards sticking with PC, at least for now, and you put a nail in the Mac coffin for me. Maybe I'll revisit the discussion next year after the M1X/Pro comes out and if Luna still isn't supported on PC.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2021 11:12:33 GMT -6
I don’t recall anyone stating the current base m1 is necessarily going to outperform a higher end Intel chip.
I think people , like me, were saying an m1 mini is a good performance price point for you to try a mac and Luna. I thought your trigger was trying to use Luna and having a lower cost option?
Or are you trying to replicate your current performance on a Mac, two different things.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2021 11:21:47 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2021 11:24:15 GMT -6
I don’t recall anyone stating the current base m1 is necessarily going to outperform a higher end Intel chip. I think people , like me, were saying an m1 mini is a good performance price point for you to try a mac and Luna. I thought your trigger was trying to use Luna and having a lower cost option? Or are you trying to replicate your current performance on a Mac, two different things. Well somebody here did say that it wouldn't be a downgrade, and I was doubting that is actually the case. Popmann has confirmed that for me. In any case, I'm not trying to flare up another PC vs Mac battle here. 1. A downgrade in performance is essentially a non-starter for me. The current M1 Mini isn't up to the task, given it's limitations. Maybe we'll see what the M1X/Pro Mini is capable of next year. 2. Performance differences aside, spending $2k right now on a maxed out M1 Mini, plus all of the peripherals, to attempt to even come close to my current PC is also a non-starter for me. I had just been hoping that the M1 Mini offered more performance than it apparently does or is capable of. For now, I'll just continue to wait and stick with my PC. Best case scenario, UAD supports Luna on PC in the next year.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 2, 2021 16:10:31 GMT -6
But its already now, not bummer even if my first impression was too optimistic.I'm trying to keep my expectations somewhat tempered. For all things audio, the overall workflow should be better, going from a 10 year old server processor with equally old components to the M1. My frankenstein tower has 32 GB of ram, but the CPU bottle neck is just too much for it. For video, I'm inclined to think that this is going to be more lateral or even a slight downgrade in certain aspects. Going from a 980ti down to the M1's sort of built-in GPU will certainly mean slower render times and possibly slower processing on certain applications where the multithreading on the xeon actually worked to its best. But to be honest, as long as the M1 can process a 1080p60 encode to whatever RTMP server needed, I'll be happy. Worst case scenario, I need to upgrade the camlinks to the Atem Mini (pro), which would increase camera capacity and give me an alternative method of transmission/streaming. If I can get everything running fine on this mac mini, that means I can sell my MBP, and then actually start swapping processors in my frankenstein tower/server. I haven't wanted to do it myself for the longest time, because I'm deathly afraid of working on PCs when I actually rely on them. It's funny to think I've repaired a recording console's power supply, but the pins on a CPU make me anxious.My M1 mini arrived yesterday -- I just have to wrap up a few projects, jobs, and wait for a new UPS to come in, and then I'll have it up and running.
Dont understand me wrong its still impressive. For producing at home the mini is extremly powerful.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 2, 2021 17:31:49 GMT -6
If I can get everything running fine on this mac mini, that means I can sell my MBP, and then actually start swapping processors in my frankenstein tower/server. I haven't wanted to do it myself for the longest time, because I'm deathly afraid of working on PCs when I actually rely on them. It's funny to think I've repaired a recording console's power supply, but the pins on a CPU make me anxious.My M1 mini arrived yesterday -- I just have to wrap up a few projects, jobs, and wait for a new UPS to come in, and then I'll have it up and running.
Dont understand me wrong its still impressive. For producing at home the mini is extremly powerful.
100% - For producing almost anywhere, the M1 Mini (16gb) is extremely powerful. Like... how powerful do audio engineers need a computer to be? Is it the absolute fastest under every circumstance, nah. Is it ridiculously fast and stable, far better than what was available two years ago and only $850? Yeah. Thats probably what some of us spent on plugins the past week or two.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2021 17:56:45 GMT -6
Maximum performance is critical, when you need it: how often do most of us max out our computers.
Running UA plugs is a hybrid system, but my 2012 i7 is still chugging along just stuck at Catalina now. I jumped on my used m1 mini deal: very pleased.
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2021 19:16:27 GMT -6
Maximum performance is critical, when you need it: how often do most of us max out our computers. Running UA plugs is a hybrid system, but my 2012 i7 is still chugging along just stuck at Catalina now. I jumped on my used m1 mini deal: very pleased. If I didn't run VIs and also use Acustica, I might have taken the jump to a Mac Mini M1. I can see how a run of the mill M1 might get the job done for some. But I specifically built my PC to be a beast and I'm not ready to give up on all of that power and speed. When Mac releases the new Mini M1X/Pro, I might be convinced to change my mind depending on price, max SSD size available, max RAM available, and if Luna is still unavailable on PC. We'll see.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2021 19:28:51 GMT -6
Oh no probs, you know what you need out of your system, best to trust your gut!
I’ll likely buy the new Mac mini, just for the extra power going forward.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 2, 2021 21:11:51 GMT -6
I wouldn't hold my breath for a mini pro; as i've said before it would pirate sales from their i-Mac Pro / Laptop M1 x and Mac pro . IMO a mini is cool at what it is but of course I could well be wrong. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Mister Chase on Dec 2, 2021 21:19:56 GMT -6
I wouldn't hold my breath for a mini pro; as i've said before it would pirate sales from their i-Mac Pro / Laptop M1 x and Mac pro . IMO a mini is cool at what it is but of course I could well be wrong. Cheers, Ross Yea. I tend to agree with this. Despite the many videos and articles and even artist renderings of apparent official nature of a pro mini. Idk. I give it 50/50 that it ever happens.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2021 23:57:11 GMT -6
I’ve done several mixes now with the MBP M1pro…and I can’t make it choke. Seriously…real world, it’s like at 20% or less when I’m using more plugs than I’ve ever used.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2021 23:59:41 GMT -6
And several of those times it’s with iTunes, mail, chrome and downloading and or unzipping huge files from backblaze at the same time. (Getting the new computer screwed up my backblaze backups).
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2021 2:48:39 GMT -6
I’d be very surprised to not have a new mini with more power.
Not everyone wants a laptop no matter how nice the screen,keyboard,pad. If you already have them the new laptop is a waste of money.
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