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Post by reddirt on Dec 3, 2021 4:03:25 GMT -6
But if you're thinking you need more power, dont they want you to go Mac pro when it arrives? Cheers, Ross
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Dec 3, 2021 5:26:22 GMT -6
Of COURSE this is a downgrade from an 8700k. Review the only video I posted in this thread, by one of the only Apple Logic users on the Youtube who obviously knows how the app works. For audio DSP, guy got 2 Abbey Road Plates in series and 4 on their own Auxes (so parallel)….my vanilla 8700 does 3 in series and i stopped after 12 on their own auxes, because frankly, point was made. An 8700k could probably get a fourth in series, due to a little faster boost clock—and mine could do the fourth, but it broke up a little….and I don't count “almost”… See the guy load his big SD3 preset in 4sec? Mine took 6 to load that. A new PCIe4 motherboard and drive is the difference vs the pcie3 nvme in a Coffee Lake system. These chips represent wonderful performance per watt. Thats not some new level of DSP performance. Those arent even in the ballpark of the same thing. I mean if you want to run Luna, sure, you need a Mac and this will be more suitable than say the last baseline mobile chips. Its hard to say how much real world downgrade it will be, since youre using UAD, which will bottleneck long before a modern intel chip. But, technically, you will have less audio floating point DSP at your disposal vs the 8700k….and less RAM for sample buffering unless you get a Pro w/32gb. Your nvme drives in a TB sled will not have the speed theyhave on the pcie bus in the PC. Don't burst to many bubbles..
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 3, 2021 7:16:33 GMT -6
Dont understand me wrong its still impressive. For producing at home the mini is extremly powerful.
100% - For producing almost anywhere, the M1 Mini (16gb) is extremely powerful. Like... how powerful do audio engineers need a computer to be? Is it the absolute fastest under every circumstance, nah. Is it ridiculously fast and stable, far better than what was available two years ago and only $850? Yeah. Thats probably what some of us spent on plugins the past week or two.
Sure but more power is there - have you seen the video running 2500 plug ins with the M1 Pro Notebook. At the moment we run Logic under Rosetta when everything is native it will be even more powerful. I just can speak for me.
I can run a session on 4 kernals without freezing which was going wild and crazy at my tower with 32 GB RAM and I still had to freeze. Is the M1 Mini for everyone.
I guess no special not for the film composeres they often want to have all sounds in a singel session no questions asked, everything under thier fingertipps. For those people ists still the big intel towers.
But for producing a professionals sounding song the M1 is wonderful. A small pitty is mixing native plug ins with intel ones. Its something that works but sometimes takes care for hickhups, but nothing that is super anoying.
I am pretty sure its not my last purchase with this technology in the next two years.
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Post by Mister Chase on Dec 3, 2021 10:22:54 GMT -6
I’d be very surprised to not have a new mini with more power. Not everyone wants a laptop no matter how nice the screen,keyboard,pad. If you already have them the new laptop is a waste of money.
I think that's what the new Pro will be for. There has never been a Mini other than the stock Mini. Mac Pro for professionals/people who don't need portability, Macbook Pro for professionals that need portability.
I'd love a Mini that filled the niche for mid level pros instead of the all out Pro can/tower. I'm just not convinced it will happen. If it does, I'll likely get one.
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Post by brenta on Dec 3, 2021 10:55:24 GMT -6
I'm getting really close to pulling the trigger on a 16" Macbook Pro, I'm just trying to settle on a configuration. If I choose right I think it will last me 10-15 years. My current Macbook Pro is almost 10 years old and it's still getting the job done, although with a lot of help from the much-maligned UAD SHARC processors. It's hard for me to imagine what kind of audio work I would need to be doing to make one of these new Macbook Pros crap out.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2021 11:14:10 GMT -6
True but they used to have the server grade mini, which in a way was the pro power and seemed more durable?
We’ll see!
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Post by Quint on Dec 3, 2021 11:27:17 GMT -6
True but they used to have the server grade mini, which in a way was the pro power and seemed more durable? We’ll see! I had the 2012 Mini server for a while. I don't know why they stopped doing that. Two internal drives instead of one made a huge difference, at least to me. If Apple would just make a M1 or M1 Pro version of the 2012 server, where the end user can upgrade ram and drives, I'd probably make the jump. The soldered in ram just really gets under my skin though.
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Post by Mister Chase on Dec 3, 2021 11:45:03 GMT -6
True but they used to have the server grade mini, which in a way was the pro power and seemed more durable? We’ll see! I stand corrected. Though I'm not sure who they were marketing to with server grade. Not necessarily good for pro audio. Good for storage more than likely.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2021 17:22:59 GMT -6
All good I just knew people who thought them more reliable so used them for audio.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2021 18:28:20 GMT -6
The full M shoot out !
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Post by christophert on Dec 4, 2021 0:13:50 GMT -6
For anyone doing post / and - or running HDX.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 4, 2021 18:49:21 GMT -6
True but they used to have the server grade mini, which in a way was the pro power and seemed more durable? We’ll see! I had the 2012 Mini server for a while. I don't know why they stopped doing that. Two internal drives instead of one made a huge difference, at least to me. If Apple would just make a M1 or M1 Pro version of the 2012 server, where the end user can upgrade ram and drives, I'd probably make the jump. The soldered in ram just really gets under my skin though.
Its something I dont understand as well. If everything goes wrong I buy a second M1 Mini and use it as server.
IMO truth is told when everything runs native. Some people talk about loosing ø 30% CPU with Rosetta.
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Post by tim on Dec 5, 2021 14:34:13 GMT -6
Here's a good review with respect to Logic and Reaper:
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Post by reddirt on Dec 5, 2021 16:06:34 GMT -6
Thanks tim,- cogent , to the point, relevant to music people; for mine this is probably the best of the Youtube vids if you're trying to decide about these machines - he says he'll be making another about which model M chipped mac is right for individual needs so that should be worthwhile viewing for someone like me , still deciding. Cheers, Ross
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Post by tim on Dec 5, 2021 16:55:42 GMT -6
Thanks tim,- cogent , to the point, relevant to music people; for mine this is probably the best of the Youtube vids if you're trying to decide about these machines - he says he'll be making another about which model M chipped mac is right for individual needs so that should be worthwhile viewing for someone like me , still deciding. Cheers, Ross Yeah I'm on a 2013 Mac Pro (trash can) which is getting due for an upgrade. Don't really want to go laptop as my main recording computer but it's interesting to see the results people are getting with these new macbook pros, especially if the fan never comes on. I have a mbp from 2019 that cranks the fans pretty much all the time if I run any sessions on it.
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Post by brenta on Dec 5, 2021 17:21:36 GMT -6
Good video, he really puts it through the paces. I have no doubt that the new MBP's power will exceed what I'm able to throw at with the stuff I do.
One thing I haven't seen tested nor heard anyone even really mention anywhere, is a setting on the 16" M1X Max MBPs called "High Power Mode."
According to Apple, "On the 16-inch MacBook Pro with M1 Max, High Power Mode allows the fans to run at higher speeds. The additional cooling capacity may allow the system to deliver higher performance in very intensive workloads."
It doesn't appear this setting is available in the 14" or the M1X Pros. It's unclear if this would allow even better performance for audio work.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 5, 2021 17:37:05 GMT -6
Since most of us use the computer while sitting at a desk with the monitors in front, I would imagine a higher power setting on a fan would produce noise that would interfere with mixing.
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Post by brenta on Dec 5, 2021 17:44:24 GMT -6
Yeah, it depends on the person. Those of us that have been mixing on Intel-based laptops have already been dealing with some level of fan noise for years. I prefer the computer be as quiet as possible, obviously, and from all reports these new MBPs are the quietest laptops ever, even when under stress. But if I ever did need that much power for some reason, it's nice to have the option.
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Post by sirthought on Dec 5, 2021 17:53:08 GMT -6
Based on the stress tests people have tried, I doubt you'd really need the high power mode. I could see maybe if you are trying to render something quickly and you want to see if it improves the speed.
I haven't had a mix in the 100s of tracks yet, but I have worked with 40-50 tracks and there has been no fan noise. I don't even think I've felt it get warm honestly.
I believe early when they came out I saw one reviewer trying the high power mode. I can't remember who did this, but it was likely someone like the Verge or Engadget. Not audio people.
We'll see how the longevity of these are, but I'm guessing the days of fan concern are over. What a blessing!
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Post by reddirt on Dec 5, 2021 19:04:53 GMT -6
Saw a video editors one where they tested the high power mode and whilst it made a difference and tripped the fans etc, it didn't make a crazy leap in performance i.e. my impression (excuse the faded memory ) was no more than around 5 - 7% difference. Again , my impression is that you'd need to be throwing the kitchen sink at it to need that kind of power. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 5, 2021 23:06:05 GMT -6
Thanks tim,- cogent , to the point, relevant to music people; for mine this is probably the best of the Youtube vids if you're trying to decide about these machines - he says he'll be making another about which model M chipped mac is right for individual needs so that should be worthwhile viewing for someone like me , still deciding. Cheers, Ross Yeah I'm on a 2013 Mac Pro (trash can) which is getting due for an upgrade. Don't really want to go laptop as my main recording computer but it's interesting to see the results people are getting with these new macbook pros, especially if the fan never comes on. I have a mbp from 2019 that cranks the fans pretty much all the time if I run any sessions on it. I didn't want to go laptop either, honestly...but this thing is like a cold brick. Stuff that would have made my 2012 Mini turn fans like a C47 hasn't even made my new Pro go above like 25% in Luna or Pro Tools. Like - I'm not sure there will be an instance I can make it choke. My wife has a 2019 MBP and it can get hot just running regular programs for a while. I have 4 drives plugged in my Pro and it is cool to the touch. Pretty amazing. I was just thinking about some editing I need to get done and thought about bringing it downstairs so I could do it while I was watching tv...but then I started thinking I'd have to bring the small hub, an SSD drive and ilok...and I thought meh. But the fact that I could if I wanted to is pretty damn cool.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 5, 2021 23:07:37 GMT -6
Good video, he really puts it through the paces. I have no doubt that the new MBP's power will exceed what I'm able to throw at with the stuff I do. One thing I haven't seen tested nor heard anyone even really mention anywhere, is a setting on the 16" M1X Max MBPs called "High Power Mode." According to Apple, "On the 16-inch MacBook Pro with M1 Max, High Power Mode allows the fans to run at higher speeds. The additional cooling capacity may allow the system to deliver higher performance in very intensive workloads." It doesn't appear this setting is available in the 14" or the M1X Pros. It's unclear if this would allow even better performance for audio work. I can't imagine what situation would call for that...
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Post by OtisGreying on Dec 5, 2021 23:33:12 GMT -6
For anyone doing post / and - or running HDX. Is the HDX version of the test not utilizing any Mac CPU power? So its HDX vs just Mac? Or is it HDX +mac cpu power vs Mac cpu power?
With my M1 Max I've noticed a huge power increase, but composing, mixing and tracking all in one session as I always do is still having me reach its limitations. I wish there were more options for outboard DSP. Avid is furiously expensive, and UAD's plug-in choices are limited and more expensive often then the native site. Or maybe its all these soft synths open in my session....
That said I'm very happy with my M1 Max. But seeing how such CPU gains have improved my workflow I craaave more.
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Post by brenta on Dec 6, 2021 8:21:09 GMT -6
Good video, he really puts it through the paces. I have no doubt that the new MBP's power will exceed what I'm able to throw at with the stuff I do. One thing I haven't seen tested nor heard anyone even really mention anywhere, is a setting on the 16" M1X Max MBPs called "High Power Mode." According to Apple, "On the 16-inch MacBook Pro with M1 Max, High Power Mode allows the fans to run at higher speeds. The additional cooling capacity may allow the system to deliver higher performance in very intensive workloads." It doesn't appear this setting is available in the 14" or the M1X Pros. It's unclear if this would allow even better performance for audio work. I can't imagine what situation would call for that... Yeah, the vast majority of situations would not. Most situations wouldn’t use half the power these laptops have available. But as OtisGreying’s post right above this one indicates, there are a few people who could use even more CPU power than what is available in the M1X computers. So having an option that allows the computer, if/when needed, to become as loud as any other laptop before M1 chips in exchange for more processing power is just another thing the M1X has in its back pocket.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 6, 2021 9:40:12 GMT -6
I guess it just over clocks the chip for short duration processing, chip heats up more, faster: fans kick in ?
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