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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 5, 2021 8:39:09 GMT -6
I use my Aurora(n) with permanent mix bus hardware/mix inserts and I haven't had issues. I seem to have plenty for pushing analog equipment but then again most of my equipment has analog output attenuation so... if I am clipping converters I turn down the output a little. I've never felt limited. I just enjoy my nice Aurora(n) sound...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 10:21:20 GMT -6
If you like hardware inserts, or are interfacing through a desk, you're not getting the most out of your analog stuff. It's the same deal if the converter on input can't match, or come close to the MOL of your preamps. Most analog outboard is gonna pass +24dBu before clipping and the outputs of some pres exceed even this. llstudio, can you elaborate on this, or explain in laymens terms ? I'm trying to understand. By hardware insert do you mean in the DAW hardware insert or having hardware in the initial recording chain? If in the DAW, I thought at this point the headroom is in the hands of the DAW and no longer the converter, so why does the converter headroom matter in DAW land after recording? Sorry. I'm going to walk back my hardware insert comment, which I tried to correct above. I'm being pedantic for no reason. I like there to be parity with levels maybe to a pathological degree! Like I said earlier, once you have levels in the DAW, you're perfectly safe because a signal will come out the channel's DAC and have analog headroom that agrees with the headroom in the digital domain, so for example, Anything that is FULL SCALE in your session will come out your DAC around +20dBu. Then, once in a HW insert, most compressors, EQS, etc will have more than enough headroom to keep even a full scale signal from clipping, make sense? Some outboard, even quality stuff, has lower headroom, like +16dBu, in which case you've got more than you need. Then once it heads back in the ADC, once again, it's getting back the same level, only there might be gain from compressor make up gain or from boosting EQ, so in any case one might have to make adjustments for level, kind of like how you've been doing it up until now, but that's more to do with matching your levels, bypassed and not bypassed. I will keep my needless fear mongering to myself in future. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 5, 2021 10:58:40 GMT -6
If you like hardware inserts, or are interfacing through a desk, you're not getting the most out of your analog stuff. It's the same deal if the converter on input can't match, or come close to the MOL of your preamps. Most analog outboard is gonna pass +24dBu before clipping and the outputs of some pres exceed even this. llstudio, can you elaborate on this, or explain in laymens terms ? I'm trying to understand. By hardware insert do you mean in the DAW hardware insert or having hardware in the initial recording chain? If in the DAW, I thought at this point the headroom is in the hands of the DAW and no longer the converter, so why does the converter headroom matter in DAW land after recording? Sorry. @llstudio has done a good job of walking back some of the (unintended, I'm sure) doubt-inducing rhetoric, but I'll give a specific example that might help illuminate things a bit more. The only time I can realistically envision running into a potential issue with that amount of headroom in a typical hybrid workflow these days (especially if tape is not involved) is something like this: Imagine you have an outboard analog compressor that you love. Imagine that one of the things you've discovered you love about said compressor is pushing its output to a point where its output transformer is really saturating. I mean, really pushing it pretty hard. It's possible that when said compressor is putting out that much level, it might be more level than your converters have headroom for. Meaning, if you attenuate the inputs on your converter in response to the high output level of the compressor so as to not clip the A/D, would you be making the low level detail come in at too soft a level to sound good with your converters? @llstudio is indicating that with some types of music (primarily classical or perhaps soundtrack), one might run into this issue, and he's not wrong IMO, but I think it's very, very, very unlikely that you will run into anything like this in real-world usage. My Metric Halo ULN-8 has a "high power mode" that can be switched internally with a jumper for this very type of scenario (or for more closely aligning to a desk's specific sweet spots). But again, it's pretty damn unlikely to be a problem. I suspect you're going to love the Aurora(n), and after a week or so, you won't ever think about this issue again. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 11:22:03 GMT -6
llstudio, can you elaborate on this, or explain in laymens terms ? I'm trying to understand. By hardware insert do you mean in the DAW hardware insert or having hardware in the initial recording chain? If in the DAW, I thought at this point the headroom is in the hands of the DAW and no longer the converter, so why does the converter headroom matter in DAW land after recording? Sorry. @llstudio has done a good job of walking back some of the (unintended, I'm sure) doubt-inducing rhetoric, but I'll give a specific example that might help illuminate things a bit more. The only time I can realistically envision running into a potential issue with that amount of headroom in a typical hybrid workflow these days (especially if tape is not involved) is something like this: Imagine you have an outboard analog compressor that you love. Imagine that one of the things you've discovered you love about said compressor is pushing its output to a point where its output transformer is really saturating. I mean, really pushing it pretty hard. It's possible that when said compressor is putting out that much level, it might be more level than your converters have headroom for. Meaning, if you attenuate the inputs on your converter in response to the high output level of the compressor so as to not clip the A/D, would you be making the low level detail come in at too soft a level to sound good with your converters? @llstudio is indicating that with some types of music (primarily classical or perhaps soundtrack), one might run into this issue, and he's not wrong IMO, but I think it's very, very, very unlikely that you will run into anything like this in real-world usage. My Metric Halo ULN-8 has a "high power mode" that can be switched internally with a jumper for this very type of scenario (or for more closely aligning to a desk's specific sweet spots). But again, it's pretty damn unlikely to be a problem. I suspect you're going to love the Aurora(n), and after a week or so, you won't ever think about this issue again. , thank you for the very real-world example, and the proper perspective that it needed, which I failed to give. Also your charitable, good faith take on my series of rushed but sincere corrections is appreciated. Once I realized I'd caused pointless FUD, I felt terrible and I never want to be negative. Egg on my face. OtisGreying, he's right, you're going to be totally satisfied with your choice. Rock on. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2021 11:39:38 GMT -6
“I suspect you're going to love the Aurora(n), and after a week or so, you won't ever think about this issue again.”
^^This^^
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Post by OtisGreying on Aug 5, 2021 16:41:32 GMT -6
Well after all this I think there’s only one solution:
Return the Lynx Aurora N and get my money back.
Just kidding. Haha. Just teasing llstudio cause he’s a good guy, thanks for explaining it man, I’m not worried especially after the in depth explanation from you and mark williams, which I really appreciate. I don’t think I run my analog nearly hard enough to clip the converter so I’m probably fine. I also know Daft Punk made Random Access Memories on a old gen Lynx so if they used a shit ton of analog and a console and made it work the headroom is not my crutch. Was just curious and thank you guys for explaining!
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 5, 2021 16:48:42 GMT -6
Well after all this I think there’s only one solution: Return the Lynx Aurora N and get my money back. Just kidding. Haha. Just teasing llstudio cause he’s a good guy, thanks for explaining it man, I’m not worried especially after the in depth explanation from you and mark williams, which I really appreciate. I don’t think I run my analog nearly hard enough to clip the converter so I’m probably fine. I also know Daft Punk made Random Access Memories on a old gen Lynx so if they used a shit ton of analog and a console and made it work the headroom is not my crutch. Was just curious and thank you guys for explaining! Happy to help, man. thumbsup As an aside, I wish we had a thumbsup emoji. |
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Post by srb on Aug 5, 2021 21:55:48 GMT -6
Well after all this I think there’s only one solution: Return the Lynx Aurora N and get my money back. Just kidding. Haha. Just teasing llstudio cause he’s a good guy, thanks for explaining it man, I’m not worried especially after the in depth explanation from you and mark williams, which I really appreciate. I don’t think I run my analog nearly hard enough to clip the converter so I’m probably fine. I also know Daft Punk made Random Access Memories on a old gen Lynx so if they used a shit ton of analog and a console and made it work the headroom is not my crutch. Was just curious and thank you guys for explaining! Happy to help, man. thumbsup As an aside, I wish we had a thumbsup emoji. 👍 |
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 5, 2021 22:00:10 GMT -6
Happy to help, man. thumbsup As an aside, I wish we had a thumbsup emoji. đź‘Ť Son of a nutcracker - where'd you find that??? Just from your phone?? |
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Post by srb on Aug 5, 2021 23:09:32 GMT -6
Son of a nutcracker - where'd you find that??? Just from your phone?? Yeah, it's from my phone. Just having a little fun with my fellow North Carolinian. Couldn't pass it up! 🙂 ✌👊 |
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Post by javamad on Aug 6, 2021 1:19:07 GMT -6
Not interested in an N right now but I have to say the way this thread evolved around the headroom topic was wonderful to see. In a time where most online discussions degenerate into the negative I think I can say we have a lot of social headroom on this forum.
Kudos to all đź‘Ť
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 6, 2021 4:46:41 GMT -6
Used octo up on UA forum classified.
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 6, 2021 6:38:23 GMT -6
Son of a nutcracker - where'd you find that??? Just from your phone?? Yeah, it's from my phone. Just having a little fun with my fellow North Carolinian. Couldn't pass it up! 🙂 ✌👊 I absolutely love it. 👍👍👍 |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 10, 2021 13:59:52 GMT -6
Question: Is there a way to set the Aurora to automatically adjust the clock settings depending on application? I feel like my Motu would adjust the clock settings automatically depending on the session or other programs. I noticed the Lynx doesn't do this and sometimes I'll get wonky artifacts (occasional clicks/pops/dropouts) in the audio. I can sometimes bounce around to a 96khz PT session, a 48khz Adobe Premiere Pro project, or listening to YT or Spotify at (I'm assuming) 44.1khz. Do I really need to adjust the Aurora clock every time?
It's actually kind of a pain, because it locks you out of changing the clock settings while the application is running. The Motu or Apollo (or any other converter I've ever used) never did that.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 10, 2021 14:56:41 GMT -6
If you are opening sessions with different sampling rates, does the N not switch ?
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Post by srb on Aug 10, 2021 18:27:29 GMT -6
Question: Is there a way to set the Aurora to automatically adjust the clock settings depending on application? I feel like my Motu would adjust the clock settings automatically depending on the session or other programs. I noticed the Lynx doesn't do this and sometimes I'll get wonky artifacts (occasional clicks/pops/dropouts) in the audio. I can sometimes bounce around to a 96khz PT session, a 48khz Adobe Premiere Pro project, or listening to YT or Spotify at (I'm assuming) 44.1khz. Do I really need to adjust the Aurora clock every time? It's actually kind of a pain, because it locks you out of changing the clock settings while the application is running. The Motu or Apollo (or any other converter I've ever used) never did that. I've had issues occasionally over the last few years with this as well. Firmware and driver updates seem to minimize it in my experience. I've had some issues with N Control beyond this. All resolved, thankfully. I think the N Control is the 'weak link' in the system. It's serviceable, though. I haven't had any issues in quite some time. I just use mine for tracking and multi-track playback. I use a two channel AD/DA for everything else. That's generally a Lynx Hilo. It works flawlessly changing with sample rates. |
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Post by popmann on Aug 10, 2021 19:43:35 GMT -6
Question: Is there a way to set the Aurora to automatically adjust the clock settings depending on application? I feel like my Motu would adjust the clock settings automatically depending on the session or other programs. I noticed the Lynx doesn't do this and sometimes I'll get wonky artifacts (occasional clicks/pops/dropouts) in the audio. I can sometimes bounce around to a 96khz PT session, a 48khz Adobe Premiere Pro project, or listening to YT or Spotify at (I'm assuming) 44.1khz. Do I really need to adjust the Aurora clock every time? It's actually kind of a pain, because it locks you out of changing the clock settings while the application is running. The Motu or Apollo (or any other converter I've ever used) never did that. How many of those were using bit perfect drivers? Trying to use a professional audio system for consumer audio simultaneously is problematic. It's very normal, IME, for a professional DAW to lock the hardware sample clock. Most CoreAudio drivers are consumer audio drivers. IE--not bitperfect. FWIW, ASIO, which Windows still uses, is bitperfect by design. Sometimes, interface makers give you the choice of a regular CoreAudio driver....or a bit perfect one. The regular one will allow OSX to resample whatever and choose sample rates freely. At the expense of better (or more accurately, untouched by the OS) sound. An Avid hardware system won't use CoreAudio for ProTools. They don't want OSX to touch the audio. They will show OSX a Coreaudio driver they can use to play youtube videos and whatever without giving up any control of the hardware(clock) at all. Ask Lynx if they have a NOT bitperfect CoreAudio driver/mode. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 10, 2021 20:14:25 GMT -6
Question: Is there a way to set the Aurora to automatically adjust the clock settings depending on application? I feel like my Motu would adjust the clock settings automatically depending on the session or other programs. I noticed the Lynx doesn't do this and sometimes I'll get wonky artifacts (occasional clicks/pops/dropouts) in the audio. I can sometimes bounce around to a 96khz PT session, a 48khz Adobe Premiere Pro project, or listening to YT or Spotify at (I'm assuming) 44.1khz. Do I really need to adjust the Aurora clock every time? It's actually kind of a pain, because it locks you out of changing the clock settings while the application is running. The Motu or Apollo (or any other converter I've ever used) never did that. Interestingly, I recall having some issues with this at some point but with support from lynx and getting the unit and n control working together. It times up for me now automatically. |
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 11, 2021 1:11:36 GMT -6
3 Apollos (all different versions), and a Lynx here.
If you want completely 'flat', take it as it is.....Lynx is the way to go.
If you want just a teeny bit of 'sound/tone', the Apollo is great for this.
Both are awesome.
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 11, 2021 1:14:39 GMT -6
You’re going to be just fine, bro. Thanks, I know. But I'm curious how headroom in the Lynx's case may affect my recordings as opposed to the X8. I guess I just have to watch for clipping more? That's my hunch. I do use hardware inserts but often use a trim/gain plug-in built into the hardware insert in Ableton to gain stage, so I'm wondering to what degree I'll suffer from "not getting the most out of my analog stuff" in my situation and what the best practice is.
Clipping (when it happens) sounds Much better in the Apollos than the Lynx to my ears. |
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Post by OtisGreying on Aug 18, 2021 20:58:32 GMT -6
How many of you guys are using the Lynx itself as a monitor controller? Do you find it’s simple/effective enough?
I’m used to using the front knob on the Apollo x8.
And still waiting on cables to hook up my lynx and finally try it out and wondering if I should pick up a cheap Mackie passive controller there’s one near me for 50$.
The other option is using my Apollo twin as a monitor controller, but I don’t know if that’s possible without coloring the sound.
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 18, 2021 22:40:23 GMT -6
How many of you guys are using the Lynx itself as a monitor controller? Do you find it’s simple/effective enough? I’m used to using the front knob on the Apollo x8. And still waiting on cables to hook up my lynx and finally try it out and wondering if I should pick up a cheap Mackie passive controller there’s one near me for 50$. The other option is using my Apollo twin as a monitor controller, but I don’t know if that’s possible without coloring the sound. I don't have or use the Lynx, but there is no way in hell I would put a Mackie anything between it and my monitors. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 19, 2021 4:12:12 GMT -6
Truth
Once you hook the N up, I’d suggest just using it to get used to it and it’s features. It’s a fine piece of gear with great sonics.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 19, 2021 5:04:15 GMT -6
I think the latest update allows you to assign the main rotary knob as “push in to mute”. That gives you volume and mute at your fingertips. If you need to switch between multiple monitors, I think you’ll need to do that in the N control app. For me, I wish they would have packed more monitor controller functionality on the front and scraped the sd recorder, as I will never use it. Regardless, I’d wait and see how it is for you in use before dropping coin. And save up a few more for something better than a Mackie to use with the Lynx. It might color the sound, negating the dollars you spent on the Lynx for its conversion transparency.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 19, 2021 6:25:47 GMT -6
Ya, the dedicated sd thing is odd, should have been a module option, adds a lot of expense that some(many?) will never use.
I would have opted for the pres and never the sd.
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