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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 23, 2021 1:34:29 GMT -6
OK, everybody. I'm going to be posting various comparisons in this thread as I have a chance to mix them down over the next couple days.
In all of these comparisons, all three mics were simultaneously put up with diaphragms as closely aligned as possible. Each part in the song was performed once, with all three mics capturing the performance simultaneously.
In this first comparison, all three mics went through my Metric Halo ULN-8 preamps, because they are the only preamps that I currently have more than two of. I wanted to compare mics, not preamps.
This features my Serrano 87 after Carlos had darkened the circuit to be slightly darker than a typical vintage U87.
Tracked at 24/96. No EQ or compression added. A little kiss of reverb and delay added for a sense of space.
The mic in question was used to record both of the acoustic guitars and the vocal. (The drums/perc are Superior Drummer.)
https%3A//soundcloud.com/markwilliams/each-grit-of-beach-serrano-87
https%3A//soundcloud.com/markwilliams/each-grit-of-beach-soyuz-019
https%3A//soundcloud.com/markwilliams/each-grit-of-beach-stam-67
EDIT: Good lord - in listening back to these directly from SoundCloud, I am really disappointed by whatever algorithm they are using to compress these for web use. If anyone wants the original .wav files, just let me know.
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 23, 2021 2:33:18 GMT -6
Awesome! Thanks for doing this!
On vocals I think the Stam really fits your voice, rich mids, it gives a detailed and intimate quality to the performance.
The Serrano sounds more modern, I could see it being nice for modern sounding acoustic guitars, it does give them a finished quality, though me being a fan of 60s/70s folk sounds I'd lean towards the Stam for the acoustics too, I don't need that bright modern acoustic sound but the Serrano'd be a nice option to have for some duller instruments or more modern produtions.
The Soyuz sounds ok but seems to hollow out on some notes, I find everything more intelligible on the Stam, they both feel like they're from the same general family but the Stam just has an extra something that is beautiful for your music.
The Serrano would cut nicely in a dense mix but it sounds a bit small for this song/arrangement, and it doesn't have that mid push that I'm used to hearing with 87s but that's maybe just a case of Mic/voice fit!
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Post by stam on Jan 23, 2021 6:34:29 GMT -6
I love how natural and wonderful you sound on that 67.
A bit of an unfair comparison on my favor since the 67 is a tube microphone. You will always have more harmonic distortion, low end and other qualities on a tube microphone but all takes sound great to me and get the job done.
Beautiful takes Mark, thanks for sharing!
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 23, 2021 6:45:57 GMT -6
Thanks so much for doing these. I actually prefer the Serrano here. It sounds the least like a mic and the most like your voice. The Stam was my second choice, but the Serrano was so smooth and natural. I really dig it.
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Post by M57 on Jan 23, 2021 7:44:10 GMT -6
Wow. I'm hearing it differently than others.
It does seem like the guitar in the 87 recording is mixed just a tad louder.
Overall, I'm more a fan of the 019 for your voice; it hit the sweet spot between transparency and depth for me ..though there are a few places where the 87 sounds better because of the way it's voiced ..like "MORALS of despair (:47).
The 67 is just a bit too heavy-handed for the vocal, but it was my fav on the guitar.
Beautiful recording and playing/singing.
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 23, 2021 11:09:53 GMT -6
5 different people, 5 different opinions hahaha.
To me the results are as I expected
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Post by drbill on Jan 23, 2021 11:30:45 GMT -6
Mark - loved it right out of the gate. The Serrano 87 sounds perfect on you. I expected things to get "better" as I went down the files, but they did not. The 87 held the lead significantly for me. I suspect there may be volume differences, and that may play in a bit, but the Serrano 87 was the clear winner for me. Delicate and full of expression, but still muscular. Perfect. Really great and vintage sounding on the acoustics!!!
The Soyuz just didn't have the meat of the 87, and came off sounding weak-ish. The 67 sounded too tubey and vintage. At least for your voice / this song.
This recording makes my decision to not buy more mics right now pretty difficult. heh heh.
PS - didn't have time to listen to the ENTIRE song. But those were my initial, seat of the pants, let's get on with this impressions.
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 23, 2021 11:31:32 GMT -6
Excellent comparison and great performance as usual.
The Stam is really a force to be reckoned with on your voice — it just fits like a glove. The Serrano sounds wonderful, too, and I definitely agree that it sounds like it would really cut through a dense arrangement. Much like I would expect an 87 to do.
On guitars, I think I preferred the Serrano.
Thanks for posting these Mark!
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Post by Guitar on Jan 23, 2021 11:57:43 GMT -6
The Serrano 87 track was my favorite by a good margin. Sounds open and clear.
The Soyuz track is a little more laid back, my second favorite. A little darker.
Didn't favor the Stam track. Not next to the other two. Just sounds kind of muddled in comparison. But if you're going for that '60 's classic sound, would probably be the most "vintage" pick of the three. I like it on the guitar but not quite as much on the voice.
EQ and processing might drastically skew these results, just speaking on the files presented.
EDIT: also the left channel guitar on the Soyuz track is super quiet, maybe give it a disadvantage in the shootout.
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Post by plinker on Jan 23, 2021 12:02:18 GMT -6
All three sound really good. My pics are in line with Dr. Bill's -- although I don't think the Stam is "too tubey", but rather just "tubey". The Serrano is really stands out.
Your voice/playing really stands out too!
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Post by ragan on Jan 23, 2021 12:04:58 GMT -6
This is great. Thanks for posting these, Mark. I mostly like the Stam the best. It just handles esses so gracefully and presents such a warm, inviting picture. But I also really like the Serrano. It's brighter and a little less beefy than the Stam, but that's to be expected with 67/87. And it (Serrano) also handles the esses really nicely. I don't really have a love-match with the Soyuz here. It's certainly a fine mic but it doesn't seem to have the muscularity in the mids that the other two have. And I don't like its presentation of esses as much. If this were only a demo of the Soyuz, though, without the other two to compare, my reaction probably would have just been, "Hey, this sounds really nice".
I think what I would land on if this were me picking between these three options, on this track, is the 67 with a bit of high shelf added.
Nice song/singin'/playin' too!
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 23, 2021 12:49:37 GMT -6
Could make the song with any of the configs. I really like the Serrano on your voice. But if I were going for that vintage thing, probably one of the other two mics. I prefer the 67 vibe a bit for the vintagey vibe. Otherwise probably something like S-67 on the guitars and Serrano on vox.
Overall, that Serrano is werkin'
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Post by mike on Jan 23, 2021 13:16:45 GMT -6
Thanks for doing this Mark, I appreciate it.
They all sound good in their own way leaving it to subjective preference. For me it's the SA-67 first with the 67 vibe and its detail,..followed by the 87 that sounds good also ...the Soyuz sounds good but sometimes sounds to me like the sustain of each note or transient length is slightly less or subtly shorter than the others in its capture somehow which is not necessarily better or worse, just different.
I'd be interested in your thoughts of how each mic took EQ for you after you've had some time with them.
I appreciate the talent and thanks for sharing,
Mike
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j4s0n
Full Member
Posts: 21
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Post by j4s0n on Jan 23, 2021 13:21:10 GMT -6
excellent job, as usual, thank you for making this post! Im really impressed with how well the Serrano suits you, I think the Stam is also great but as others have stated it just has a different vibe, you could call it more vintage sounding, but boy does it give just have a nice polish right out the gate. The Soyuz is my least favorite here, not that its at all bad! Great singing and playing as always! edit: with processing I think the 67 might take the cake for me..
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Post by gwlee7 on Jan 23, 2021 15:40:01 GMT -6
One of my collaborators who does the bulk of the lead singing on our stuff is looking for a good all rounder high quality mic that would not break the bank. How could the Serrano 87 not be a top contender? That sounds amazing to my ear.
Oh, and the song is top notch. Absolutely gorgeous.
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Post by ragan on Jan 23, 2021 15:57:56 GMT -6
One of my collaborators who does the bulk of the lead singing on our stuff is looking for a good all rounder high quality mic that would not break the bank. How could the Serrano 87 not be a top contender? That sounds amazing to my ear. Oh, and the song is top notch. Absolutely gorgeous. If it's in the budget, it absolutely should be. If they want cheaper, try a Warbler MKID. Man, I'd love to hear a Serrano vs MKID comparison. Almost worth shipping one down to Mark. Since I know he's got nothing better to spend his time on than posting lots of high quality shootouts for us. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 23, 2021 16:25:26 GMT -6
Mark, Beautiful song & great voice. When does the tour start? The guitar playing mixed w the vocal sits just right. The guitar serves as the foundation & the vocal skates effortlessly thru the song  I prefer the Serrano here on your voice. It highlights the expression & nuances in a balanced way. The Stam does this as well, more pronounced tho w/ the added harmonic distortion. The Stam is my second pick. The Stam is adding a slight subtle harmonics that really fit this genre well. Depends what era you want vintage or modern. I would pick this if you want that vintage slightly colored ( in a good way ) singer songwriter sound. The Soyuz sound pristine, very balanced character for a tube based mic. It’s a little thinner in the lows & low mids then the others. This mic to me would be great for Celine Dion, Beyoncé, Christina Aguilera. Mic is lean in their powerful frequencies when they get to belting. I get c12 / c800g vibes from this Soyuz. I thought the Soyuz 019 was supposed to be in the “ 67 “ camp ( technically a C800g is too lol ) |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 23, 2021 16:27:24 GMT -6
So far :
Serrano : 7
Stam: 5
Soyuz : 1
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Post by reddirt on Jan 23, 2021 17:17:16 GMT -6
What it does tell me is that the Serrano is a great mic, the rest is just preference.
Still havent' heard it put under high spl pressure aand Mark would make a tin can sound good but it seems that at that price it should be jumped all over.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by chessparov on Jan 23, 2021 18:44:01 GMT -6
Photo finish (by a nose) for...
1st Stam (sounds fantastic for a Ballad!
a little fuller/intimate)
2nd Serrano (sounds terrific too)
Back, by several lengths... Soyuz.
All three "sound like a record" though.
Chris
P.S. Sing a rocker, and IMHO 1st and 2nd
may easily switch Places. I'd expect the Warbler to have
slightly less "detail" than all 3 of these.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 23, 2021 21:03:58 GMT -6
The Serrano sounds fantastic. Listening alone you would have little to criticize. That said, when the Stam track started, my ears relaxed, it was like a relief of some kind. Knowing the SA67, it does sound like the true vintage 67, so, they typically come to life with a little EQ. I would pick the Stam and EQ a little.
Now if you're talking budget and quality, that Serrano 87 is surely a contender.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 23, 2021 21:28:57 GMT -6
I love the 67 sound, especially on vocals. I liked the 87 on the guitars too. Then again, I use my U67 on vocals and U87ai on guitars whenever I track something like that. So I may biased.
By the way, I really enjoy your voice.
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 23, 2021 22:44:02 GMT -6
The Serrano all the way for me on this track. If I were mixing the Stam or the Soyuz I'd be cutting low mids. The clarity of the Serrano sounds balanced and finished. And I'm not one who leans toward bright "modern" mixes. I think I'm beginning to see why folks like the 87.
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Post by dok on Jan 23, 2021 23:39:22 GMT -6
The Stam sounds more 3D to me on the vocal, but the esses sound a bit too soft. I agree with ragan on the high shelf probably doing the trick on the Stam but the Serrano doesn't really need a thing. Guess I'm gonna have to think about ordering one of these, thanks a LOT.  |
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Post by Guitar on Jan 24, 2021 6:08:44 GMT -6
One of my collaborators who does the bulk of the lead singing on our stuff is looking for a good all rounder high quality mic that would not break the bank. How could the Serrano 87 not be a top contender? That sounds amazing to my ear. Oh, and the song is top notch. Absolutely gorgeous. If it's in the budget, it absolutely should be. If they want cheaper, try a Warbler MKID. Man, I'd love to hear a Serrano vs MKID comparison. Almost worth shipping one down to Mark. Since I know he's got nothing better to spend his time on than posting lots of high quality shootouts for us. I would love to hear the Warbler I vs the Serrano 87, that would help me spend a few bucks maybe. Both of these are on my radar right now. Another one I'm after is the Stam 67 vs the Warm 67 vs. any other 67 (Reissue?) There was that video that came out where the guy with a vintage 67 said the Warm was identical, I was very intrigued by that. Sounds too good to be true, but makes me want to audition a Warm. Seems like these Chinese K67 capsules are getting closer, and closer. |
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