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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 2, 2020 19:59:13 GMT -6
Is there a glaring gap somewhere, or am I just suffering from insecurity and Gear Acquisition Syndrome?
I feel like I am always chasing the 'big' thick present vocal sound, think Scott Walker, Bing Crosby, Glenn Campbell.
Not sure if thats a microphone, or signal chain thing.
MICROPHONES:
2 - 3U Warbler custom voiced ELAM 251 Style
2 - Vanguard V4
1 - JZ V67
2 3U CM-1 Teal
1 Cascade Vin Jet
2 Prodipe Ribbon 1 (Short ribbons)
1 Prodipe TT 1
2 Karma Silver Bullets
1 Karma Bass
2 AKG c535 EB
3 AKG D 190 ES
1 EV RE-16
2 EV 635A
1 EV RE320
1 Oktava MD-80M - (http://goo.gl/mq8mQ8)
2 Shure SM57
Buncha random 'color' mics
OUTBOARD:
Vintage Audio M12 (4 channel API 312 clones)
Iron Age Audio (4 Channel boutique with 3 'Heider' RE0887 Transformers / 1 Thick Flick)
2 - Chameleon Labs 7602
Weight Tank WT-72
Lindell 18xs
Vintech Dual 72
Manley Core Strip
Universal Audio 4-710
Langevin/Manley DVC
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2 - KT-2A
1- Drawmer 1978 (Stereo FET comp)
1 - Lindell 17xs
1- JDK R-22 (2 Channel API/ATI comp)
1- Weight Tank WT-COMP
1- 2 Channel Tonelux Equalux Equalizer
(MOTU 16A interface and Focal Alpha65 monitors)
(Well treated 800 sq ft live room, decked out with GIK panels)
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,738 
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2020 21:00:50 GMT -6
Well rounded kit but I feel like it’s missing 2 things; 1 that one big vocal mic, 2 a great stereo pair of SDCs. Just my opinion.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 2, 2020 21:10:53 GMT -6
Bing-44 Ribbon.
Scott Walker (U47/48).
Glen Campbell U47.
AFAIK they mainly used those, in their heyday.
You may dig the Warm WA-47, since it's so thick sounding. Or just "go direct" to Heiserman or Flea.
Realistically, if I ever got a 44-ish Ribbon, I'd have to go R84. Since IMHO you need an excellent (or better) room, for a 44.
How's the JZ working out? I liked it a lot, when I tried it.
Chris
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Post by drbill on Dec 2, 2020 21:32:28 GMT -6
RCA77/44, U47. Done.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 2, 2020 22:04:32 GMT -6
chessparov - LOVE the V67. Id have more JZ mics if it wasn't for the esoteric mounting systems. ericn - Yeah, I hear ya on the SDCs. For varying reasons I rarely have been into the sound when I try them out. Maybe it's just the ones I've used. drbill - Ive always shied away from ribbons for maintenance/re-ribboning fears. Unfounded perhaps. I also shy away from tube mics... I basically just hate maintenance and always seem to have issues with any tube gear I have. And I take good care of my stuff. I do wonder if I can get close to the vibe of a tube mic using the right tube preamp (like my WT-72 for example)? Any other 47/48 style suggestions in the $800-1000 range? Sorry for what is probably a redundancy. I'll do some thread digging later. Took a cocktail break at the moment while watching Badlands.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,738
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2020 22:41:00 GMT -6
OK, now things make more sense! 3 mics I would at least consider United 47fet, you won’t get a real 47 tone without a tube but you get a nice capsule- push the budget and look at the Heisermann, not sure it’s twice as good but I’d rate it as a better mic. I’ll stretch your budget and say Gefell UM70, affordable classic with a real M7. Last that Serrano 87 is at the very least worth a listen.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 3, 2020 0:50:07 GMT -6
FWIW staying at under a grand... My pick would be the UT 47FET as IMHO "more likely to succeed" (more flexible), vs. the WA-47.
If Jacob didn't already have the JZ... I'd suggest the new Soundelux U195 more, as it has quite a Full and Present tone.
Seems like a 47 based mic, will help complete the "food group".
Chris
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Post by Ward on Dec 3, 2020 8:00:09 GMT -6
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Post by plinker on Dec 3, 2020 9:02:24 GMT -6
I'm loving the JZ!
Have you tried getting in close to the JZ, then compressing it with a quicker attack and slower release?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 3, 2020 11:06:21 GMT -6
Is there a glaring gap somewhere, or am I just suffering from insecurity and Gear Acquisition Syndrome? I feel like I am always chasing the 'big' thick present vocal sound, think Scott Walker, Bing Crosby, Glenn Campbell. Not sure if thats a microphone, or signal chain thing. MICROPHONES: 2 - 3U Warbler custom voiced ELAM 251 Style 2 - Vanguard V4 1 - JZ V67 2 3U CM-1 Teal 1 Cascade Vin Jet 2 Prodipe Ribbon 1 (Short ribbons) 1 Prodipe TT 1 2 Karma Silver Bullets 1 Karma Bass 2 AKG c535 EB 3 AKG D 190 ES 1 EV RE-16 2 EV 635A 1 EV RE320 1 Oktava MD-80M - (http://goo.gl/mq8mQ8) 2 Shure SM57 Buncha random 'color' mics OUTBOARD: Vintage Audio M12 (4 channel API 312 clones) Iron Age Audio (4 Channel boutique with 3 'Heider' RE0887 Transformers / 1 Thick Flick) 2 - Chameleon Labs 7602 Weight Tank WT-72 Lindell 18xs Vintech Dual 72 Manley Core Strip Universal Audio 4-710 Langevin/Manley DVC -- 2 - KT-2A 1- Drawmer 1978 (Stereo FET comp) 1 - Lindell 17xs 1- JDK R-22 (2 Channel API/ATI comp) 1- Weight Tank WT-COMP 1- 2 Channel Tonelux Equalux Equalizer (MOTU 16A interface and Focal Alpha65 monitors) (Well treated 800 sq ft live room, decked out with GIK panels) What kind of music do you do? Do you record drums? Kick drum mic? But yeah, it looks like you're missing a really nice vocal mic. |
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Post by plinker on Dec 3, 2020 11:23:01 GMT -6
Jacob, are you asking: 1.what you're missing from your gear, 2. what your missing specifically with respect to getting the "big" vocal sound, or 3. both ?
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 3, 2020 12:41:07 GMT -6
What kind of music do you do? Do you record drums? Kick drum mic? But yeah, it looks like you're missing a really nice vocal mic. The vast majority of what I do is 'indie/alt rock'. A good amount of folk and psych folk. Some post punk. Really its the folk or more sparsely arranged songs that could use a big vocal. For kick I often go with the RE320, I have preferred that to the Shure 52 and AKG D112 Ive used. Actually the 3U CM1 works nicely as well. |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 3, 2020 13:03:32 GMT -6
Ward ericn plinkerFWIW I did try a Beesneez Oliver (47 inspired) for a while, but it didn't really have the thing I'm after. I have used an original Telefunken 47 a few times in the past in my band days, and its always been an elusive sound Ive hunted since. The Serrano is intriguing, but being a very small new company I wonder what support will be like long term. The 47 or Sony c37a has always vibe has always been what I'm after in my head for a vocal mic. Plinker, yes I have done that approach with the JZ, sounds good. Honestly the V67 with the WT-72 pre sounds pretty sweet. Gefell stuff is intriguing as well. The Warm does have that colored sound thats very pleasing, that said I've not been wild about the QC on the couple Warm pieces I have.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 3, 2020 13:39:06 GMT -6
Ward ericn plinkerFWIW I did try a Beesneez Oliver (47 inspired) for a while, but it didn't really have the thing I'm after. I have used an original Telefunken 47 a few times in the past in my band days, and its always been an elusive sound Ive hunted since. The Serrano is intriguing, but being a very small new company I wonder what support will be like long term. The 47 or Sony c37a has always vibe has always been what I'm after in my head for a vocal mic. Plinker, yes I have done that approach with the JZ, sounds good. Honestly the V67 with the WT-72 pre sounds pretty sweet. Gefell stuff is intriguing as well. The Warm does have that colored sound thats very pleasing, that said I've not been wild about the QC on the couple Warm pieces I have. I tracked 95% of an Irish folk tune last night with my BeesNeez Frank and think it's sounding dynamite. |
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Post by Ward on Dec 3, 2020 13:53:15 GMT -6
Ward ericn plinkerFWIW I did try a Beesneez Oliver (47 inspired) for a while, but it didn't really have the thing I'm after. I have used an original Telefunken 47 a few times in the past in my band days, and its always been an elusive sound Ive hunted since. The Serrano is intriguing, but being a very small new company I wonder what support will be like long term. The 47 or Sony c37a has always vibe has always been what I'm after in my head for a vocal mic. Plinker, yes I have done that approach with the JZ, sounds good. Honestly the V67 with the WT-72 pre sounds pretty sweet. Gefell stuff is intriguing as well. The Warm does have that colored sound thats very pleasing, that said I've not been wild about the QC on the couple Warm pieces I have. The thing about an 87, it sounds a lot more 'elusive' when it's through a tube preamp, so bear that in mind. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,738
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Post by ericn on Dec 3, 2020 15:13:14 GMT -6
Ward ericn plinkerFWIW I did try a Beesneez Oliver (47 inspired) for a while, but it didn't really have the thing I'm after. I have used an original Telefunken 47 a few times in the past in my band days, and its always been an elusive sound Ive hunted since. The Serrano is intriguing, but being a very small new company I wonder what support will be like long term. The 47 or Sony c37a has always vibe has always been what I'm after in my head for a vocal mic. Plinker, yes I have done that approach with the JZ, sounds good. Honestly the V67 with the WT-72 pre sounds pretty sweet. Gefell stuff is intriguing as well. The Warm does have that colored sound thats very pleasing, that said I've not been wild about the QC on the couple Warm pieces I have. Well yeah Jacob I would say go grab the Tonelux C37 clone in a second but it kills your budget and has a tube. Now while Serranos 87 is a new product and I completely agree with everything you say, let me counter ( no I do not work for him because frankly only the biggest mic manufacturers can afford me😎) first the price is right hell I’m not an 87 fan, I’m not doing any tracking yet so far it sounds good. A new manufacturer is far more likely to give you a demo because they want their product out there! Let’s say in 2 years Serranos gone, your 87 gives up the ghost, OK there is nothing in the thing that can’t be found, hell worst case you spend as much on real K87! Man I get it I hate repairs but after 37 years of doing this, 7 spent next to one of the busiest services departments out there I realize shit happens always at the worst time in the worst way. All I can say is try some mics, but me fear is your going to find that you really want that one great 47 or 37 flavor and sell all the pretenders. |
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 3, 2020 16:05:29 GMT -6
I also shy away from tube mics... I basically just hate maintenance and always seem to have issues with any tube gear I have. And I take good care of my stuff. I do wonder if I can get close to the vibe of a tube mic using the right tube preamp (like my WT-72 for example)? No, you can't. You can't use post processing to change the inherent character stamp that a mic initially imparts to the signal. It's the basic flaw faced by all those "mike modelling" systems.
A big part of it is that the things that determine a mic's character are not all related to EQ. A capsule will have a specific harmonic character to it that can be modified but not changed. Same thing with a tube head amp. Another important thing is the dynamics of the mic - EQ won't change that.
The things that are most important about the sound of a good tube mic are generally the attributes that are NOT alterable via EQ.
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Post by ombudsman on Dec 3, 2020 16:21:49 GMT -6
I'm not familiar with all your mics but what I don't see are the dynamic mics with full lows that are good for everything and can sub for condensors: for me those are the Senn 441 (with the high frequency switch set flat) and the Beyer M88. These are pretty non controversial choices.
SM7 might hit that spot too but I have no experience to say.
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 3, 2020 16:58:19 GMT -6
The JZ v67 is going to be really hard to beat. It took a U67 to beat mine! And I’m still not selling it.
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Post by aremos on Dec 3, 2020 17:31:22 GMT -6
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 3, 2020 17:32:09 GMT -6
The JZ v67 is going to be really hard to beat. It took a U67 to beat mine! And I’m still not selling it. Yes, this is my go to vocal mic. Using 3U Warbler Mk V a lot more lately as well. |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 3, 2020 18:29:01 GMT -6
KM84’s
Coles 4038’s
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Post by chessparov on Dec 3, 2020 18:37:31 GMT -6
Honestly, for a grand, I'd be considering the Audioscape Opto Compressor, very seriously...
To further thicken the plot.
Chris
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 3, 2020 18:41:16 GMT -6
Had a pair of 4038s around, but honestly didn't work too well in my room, aside from front of kick. |
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Post by Ward on Dec 3, 2020 19:51:51 GMT -6
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