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Post by subspace on Dec 31, 2020 7:37:16 GMT -6
Carbon has control for 3 monitor pairs, the dedicated TRS plus outs 1-4 on the DSUB. Existing interface in the studio is a MOTU 16A, which will still be used for 16 i/o over ADAT with Carbon, should be interesting comparing the two. Set up a 24 track template with a Brainworx SSL 9000 J on each channel using 7 of the 8 DSP, looking forward to tracking through the set-up. Wow I watched both videos on Carbon and clearly missed that lol So are all 3 level matches & controllable mon outputs via software & front panel or just SW? Either way that’s great news! Excited to hear what you think of the sound quality. Idk if it’s me but I would be a little nervous running multiple interfaces. So if you clock the Motu off the Carbon & you record 24 inputs will they all be sample accurate aligned in Pro Tools edit window? Is there any other process needed for sample accurate recording thru both interfaces? The three monitor select buttons are on the front panel to the left of the monitor volume. Pro Tools hardware set-up lets you enable up to three of the output pairs for monitor control with mute and dim buttons to the right of the volume encoder. The MOTU will run as a stand-alone analog-to-ADAT/ADAT-to-analog box, so not connected as a second interface, just slaved to WC for conversion. You have to enter the conversion delay into hardware set-up for everything after the ADAT ports just like any other external converter with Pro Tools, all the built-in conversion is already aligned. Moved it out to the studio on Monday and tested it recording stand-alone in the tracking room with eight drum mics. Just headphone monitoring out there, but first impression on playback was these preamps are going to be all I need on location for choral and orchestral work. The Audient's were my first call for acoustic instruments and overheads but the honeymoon is strong on these, so I moved Carbon to the control room to start wiring it in for a direct comparison without moving the mics. Had a quick session on Tuesday morning so I just booted the new Catalina partition with PT 2020.12 installed and tried it with the MOTU 16A, which worked perfectly. I then had to run and pick-up a truck to move our theatre company into a new space, which has been a full court press for the last 48 hours, hoping to get back into the studio later today or on New Year's Day for some direct comparisons. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2021 0:22:39 GMT -6
Avid probably should have done this years if not a couple of decades ago! If you don’t need a bunch of I/O, want to run PT with low latency and some plugins this is awesome. Wonder when we will see a Blacklion Modded version? I laffed |
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ericn
Temp
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Post by ericn on Jan 4, 2021 14:21:30 GMT -6
A couple of us were talking during the Chiefs loss and Packer win yesterday about this, we all agreed we liked the idea of PT Carbon. You could describe all of us as “former PT power users”, who have all moved on.
We all kind of wish Avid had taken the next 2 steps with it;
Step #1 learn from RADAR, your own live consoles and large scale Euphonix Console/ Controllers, put the F$&@ing CPU in the box! Look AVID has wanted to sell turnkey systems since they bought Didgidesign here is not only the chance but the perfect product, you could even look at it as a HDX level product for MI dealers support would all be through AVID. Plus if you used a small Chip you would need to use all DSP based plugins like on the live systems, they are priced higher.
Step #2 if you implement step 1, run the controller GUI on IPad, Android and surface! Think about it going back to TDM Avids DSP systems have primarily used the host as A PSU, chassis and GUI! Sure put a Video monitor out on it but a IPAD sure makes a great wireless controller! Suddenly Carbon would move into the market of larger Sound Devices systems have dominated !
The only other real gripe was that everybody would have preferred that the 16 ch of ADAT I/O was card based so that one could choose their preference ( yeah none of us really like ADAT light pipe) AES, MADI, Dante are so less problematic and so much more professional, hell 24 ch of TDIF would probably make me a buyer, all of us old RADAR owners would probably buy in.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 4, 2021 15:21:53 GMT -6
ADAT with high sample rates is such a F’in nightmare. Never seen a switch between low and high rates happen without blowing up routing configuration.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 4, 2021 15:24:18 GMT -6
ADAT with high sample rates is such a F’in nightmare. Never seen a switch between low and high rates happen without blowing up routing configuration. The only 2 reasons for it are it’s cheap and minimal space on the rear. |
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Post by mulmany on Jan 4, 2021 22:40:14 GMT -6
ADAT with high sample rates is such a F’in nightmare. Never seen a switch between low and high rates happen without blowing up routing configuration. The only 2 reasons for it are it’s cheap and minimal space on the rear. And it makes the spec I/O count look good! |
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Post by subspace on Jan 12, 2021 0:24:04 GMT -6
Toyed with 3 different mounting configurations, finally settled on adding it to the preamp/EQ rack. Was running a Logic session and flipping back and forth between the Carbon monitor outs and it's ADAT outs feeding the MOTU 16A conversion, both hitting parallel returns on the Audient monitor controller. The Carbon is a nice step-up in resolution, vocals and ambience have more depth and detail, bass lines have a girth to them whereas on the MOTU I'd say they were defined but flatter sounding.
Have all the Dsubs wired up now and I hear no difference between the monitor outs and 8 line outs, on to shooting out the ADCs!
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 10:44:38 GMT -6
Bump for opinions and thoughts!
I’m getting tired of Logic’s inconsistencies, and as much as I dislike Avid, I won’t switch “sideways” to another DAW. It’s either keep up with Logic’s workarounds or get back into Pro Tools via Carbon.
I’m going to review the thread but - are there any obvious shortcomings/quirks in Carbon?
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 4, 2021 10:50:15 GMT -6
Bump for opinions and thoughts! I’m getting tired of Logic’s inconsistencies, and as much as I dislike Avid, I won’t switch “sideways” to another DAW. It’s either keep up with Logic’s workarounds or get back into Pro Tools via Carbon. I’m going to review the thread but - are there any obvious shortcomings/quirks in Carbon? Slightly limited IO is all I can think. |
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 11:11:35 GMT -6
I can see that compared to my RME Fireface 802 I’d be losing 4 mic/line inputs and the digital AES that I use to run my Bricasti. That means rethinking my setup a bit. It might be doable. It’s not a problem for tracking, only for hybrid mixing. I’m using two external 8/8 units via ADAT.
In comparison, I get two extra line outputs and two extra headphone outputs. And the talkback mic, which I like! Really great for tracking bands, for sure.
I’ve also read something about PT Native having a limit of 32 outputs while the unit has 34. That is probably going to suck big time, since I’d be using all 34 outputs. Comments on this?
EDIT: I see my 2014 MacBook Pro is not qualified. I will wait until they put out a new model I guess...
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Post by subspace on Apr 4, 2021 12:31:28 GMT -6
Bump for opinions and thoughts! I’m getting tired of Logic’s inconsistencies, and as much as I dislike Avid, I won’t switch “sideways” to another DAW. It’s either keep up with Logic’s workarounds or get back into Pro Tools via Carbon. I’m going to review the thread but - are there any obvious shortcomings/quirks in Carbon? 'You talking to me? You talking to me? Well, I'm the only one here...' Just got Carbon screwed back into the rack after finishing up a remote cast recording yesterday.  Went very smoothly, just a stereo pair in the costume storage space and a bunch of headphone feeds. Here's a quick clip of the set-up:
drive.google.com/file/d/1-sNcSUI_ByIJJILPgeifcewgdykiNi1s/view?usp=sharingThe preamps are nice, didn't shoot out the various impedence settings on the tube mics, it was a tight schedule with the cast, but that's available on mic pre in 5-8 and can be cool on ribbons/dynamics. The DIs on 1 and 2 have a bunch of impedence settings as well, which I really dig when used with bass/guitar and AAX DSP pedals/amps. It was the first time I used the built-in monitor control and now I think I might have to retire the Audient controller. The direct feed to the speakers sounds great, maybe I can do some kind of direct switching to maintain all the additional monitor sources the Audient provides... I'd say the main downside of the controls is having to press the encoder to select each input or headphone output control. If you're controlling mic gain on input 8 and want to go back to match it on input 7, click-in 1, click-in 2, click-in 3, click-in 4, click-in 5, click-in 6, click-in 7. Hope you weren't dialing it back to stop it from clipping, cause it takes a sec. The Pro Tools update this week to 2021.3 included a fix for a timing issue with hardware inserts on Carbon. There was a firmware update included so I'll have to try a hardware insert in Logic to see if it's working smoothly. The Carbon AVB driver is cool in that it shows up as a system device and a 'reserved for Pro Tools' device at the same time, so I can be playing a Pro Tools session and launch Logic to play any of the VIs live. Carbon will mix their outputs together, or I can use them on discrete outputs and record the VI back into the PT session. EDIT: I'm using it with a 2014 MacBook Pro even though they didn't officially qualify anything older than 2017. If it's got a Thunderbolt port, it supports AVB apparently. |
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 13:24:57 GMT -6
Very nice report!!! I also need to investigate Console 1 integration with PT, which I think is a weak point.
From what I see, it looks like I need PT Ultimate to use the 34 outputs?
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Post by subspace on Apr 4, 2021 13:42:34 GMT -6
Very nice report!!! I also need to investigate Console 1 integration with PT, which I think is a weak point. From what I see, it looks like I need PT Ultimate to use the 34 outputs? I think so, I always have HP1 checked to use the same source as monitor L-R so I never have more than 32 outputs. |
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 14:14:06 GMT -6
Come to think of it, I’ll never use the 34 simultaneously, so I could do the same! Softube C1 integration is only slightly worse than Logic, I think I could live with it.
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Post by subspace on Apr 4, 2021 14:55:09 GMT -6
Come to think of it, I’ll never use the 34 simultaneously, so I could do the same! Softube C1 integration is only slightly worse than Logic, I think I could live with it. Just bought my first Softube plug-in to run on Carbon, Grand Channel/EQF-100/TLA-100A. Haven't tried it on a live mic yet, but I love monitoring PA's Purple MC77 after the Carbon pre, figured I'd try an opto. |
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 15:06:49 GMT -6
The Summit is one of my favorites. I hadn’t realized that Softube is all AAX...
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 15:19:47 GMT -6
Another shortcoming: no MIDI I/O, which I use for plugin control for my Bricasti. However, since this is the 21st century, a simple cable/MIDI interface fixes this!  |
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Post by Vincent R. on May 30, 2021 14:57:30 GMT -6
I’m really torn right now between adding an Apollo X16 to my Apollo silver face rig, and setting up the silver face mostly as a monitor control station and for extra dsp, or dropping Apollo entirely and grabbing a Carbon. I’ve of a mixed mind about it.
I don’t need more than 8 channels most of the time, but i do want 16 in if I can manage it. I have created my work arounds with Console, but I hate having this extra step. I can’t really record using plugins. I get phase issues and can’t hear myself properly. I wish I knew what Avid has in store for the future, since I don’t really need the preamps on the Carbon. I’d love to know what kind of expandability they have in the pipeline. I started with an MBox pro and am often recording at my friend’s place which is hdx. I would love to go back to the simplicity of recording that way. I’d need to grab a UAD satellite though on top of the Carbon. I have a few months before I’ll be ready for the upgrade. Still debating though.
I’d love to hear what people think of them sonically.
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Post by subspace on May 31, 2021 9:49:15 GMT -6
I’m really torn right now between adding an Apollo X16 to my Apollo silver face rig, and setting up the silver face mostly as a monitor control station and for extra dsp, or dropping Apollo entirely and grabbing a Carbon. I’ve of a mixed mind about it. I don’t need more than 8 channels most of the time, but i do want 16 in if I can manage it. I have created my work arounds with Console, but I hate having this extra step. I can’t really record using plugins. I get phase issues and can’t hear myself properly. I wish I knew what Avid has in store for the future, since I don’t really need the preamps on the Carbon. I’d love to know what kind of expandability they have in the pipeline. I started with an MBox pro and am often recording at my friend’s place which is hdx. I would love to go back to the simplicity of recording that way. I’d need to grab a UAD satellite though on top of the Carbon. I have a few months before I’ll be ready for the upgrade. Still debating though. I’d love to hear what people think of them sonically. I switched from the MOTU 16A six months ago and the difference in recording quality is not subtle. The DACs were easy to compare with existing recordings and those differences weren't as dramatic, but when I started tracking vocals through Carbon's ADC, the Carbon conversion sounded as close to an analog mult off the preamp as I've heard. I don't know if the 32 bit converter through 32 bit AVB driver path contributes to that or if it's just the design of the conversion/analog stages. I had been trouble shooting an issue where PT was placing new recordings 41 samples ahead of the original track in an analog loop through test of the 16A last year. I dug out an old, plastic Avid C400 USB interface with no updated drivers and the same test placed the newly recorded track perfectly in sync. Kind've infuriating, but contributed to me being ready to purchase software/hardware all as one system. I was not looking to switch to an interface with mic preamps/monitor control incorporated, but of course the first major job I get after it arrives is a bunch of remote recording I need to travel light for. The mic preamps turned out to be a step up from my existing Audients, perfect for location recording. That was also the first true test of the HDX accelerated cue mixing, 3 mixes feeding 14 sets of phones. Worked perfectly, no latency and I was able to punch-in pick up lines with the cue mixes following transparently. The negatives? I'll probably end up renewing the Pro Tools subscription next year. I've always just bought in at certain software/OS plateaus, 7.3.1 M-Powered, PT9, 10/11/12 combined license. This is the first time I've been on any kind of software subscription, but I see Carbon development running hand-in-hand with Pro Tools for a while and will want to stay current. So far as plug-ins, I really like that all the AAX DSP instances run as AAX native when I just want to open a mix on the MacBook whenever/wherever. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2021 13:00:24 GMT -6
I’m really torn right now between adding an Apollo X16 to my Apollo silver face rig, and setting up the silver face mostly as a monitor control station and for extra dsp, or dropping Apollo entirely and grabbing a Carbon. I’ve of a mixed mind about it. I had been trouble shooting an issue where PT was placing new recordings 41 samples ahead of the original track in an analog loop through test of the 16A last year. I dug out an old, plastic Avid C400 USB interface with no updated drivers and the same test placed the newly recorded track perfectly in sync. Kind've infuriating, but contributed to me being ready to purchase software/hardware all as one system. Dude - this is exactly what’s happening to me with the Apollo. You ever figure it out? |
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Post by subspace on May 31, 2021 18:51:16 GMT -6
Yeah, bought an Avid interface instead of trying to get PT Vanilla working on third party hardware.. magically everything is sample accurate again!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2021 22:11:01 GMT -6
Yeah, bought an Avid interface instead of trying to get PT Vanilla working on third party hardware.. magically everything is sample accurate again! I’m so invested in UA, I’m just going to have to stick with it and hope Luna becomes as much easy to use as PT. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 1, 2021 4:39:09 GMT -6
Dude - this is exactly what’s happening to me with the Apollo. You ever figure it out? I had that same issue for a while here. I believe there was some setting within console that solved that issue for me. It’s been a while though, and I think it was my friend humblecomposer who actually figured it out for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 6:42:51 GMT -6
Edit: Found out myself, Carbon comes with a PT Standard sub.. Side chaining ADC is still HDX only and of course using an Avid interface is a must because there is no RTL / driver analysis for anything but their devices. Ultimately the stopper for me was lack of digital I/O (like AES), I have some outboard worth more than Carbon and Luna exists (even if it's still progressing)..
As much as I like PT HDX I don't need it either, although I could have been tempted given everything was right for my specific setup. Always the case though right? Whatever works for you.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 17, 2021 22:18:31 GMT -6
So, I’m just really beginning to dive into the Carbon. Surprisingly, I am having some issues with latency on older sessions. New sessions there are no issues, but older sessions I created with my Apollo are creating a small delay if I try recording on them, even when I lower the buffer size. I’m not sure if it is just some setting I missed or what. I’m on Ultimate now, if that makes any difference and was not when I created those sessions. Anyone else have this issue?
**EDIT**
Had to remove the UAD plugins. Issue corrected itself.
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