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Post by stormymondays on Nov 12, 2020 16:24:32 GMT -6
Wow. This might bring me back into Pro Tools. Or maybe its next iteration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 16:27:17 GMT -6
Now I can offload 1% Cpu use for all instances combined McDSP plugs to an expensive dsp chip for only 3,999 dollars. They want the same amount as a 16 channel, thunderbolt Lynx Aurora (N).
You could already track with McDSP plugs at under 2ms rtl latency with RME and Lynx pcie and tbolt. Avid is creating a problem to solve by introducing more latency than usb interfaces by direct Ethernet hookup to revive Pro Tools dsp plugs from the dead to compete with UAD. No way in hell the RTL and stability will compete with Thunderbolt and PCI-E interfaces. This probably will not beat the latency of the current Steinberg usb interfaces for native plugs. Those have dsp in them too, start at under 200 bucks, and are made in South Korea.
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 13, 2020 1:17:01 GMT -6
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 2:26:44 GMT -6
very nice article. Bummer that no expansion at least not yet. Cool to see that the Hybrid engine will be made available to HDX users now though. I would love to have a Native mix engine when doing mix downs on my system. Overall, I still think it's a very cool product and direction for Avid to take. I hope they keep expanding it. |
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 13, 2020 2:49:54 GMT -6
I can't find its operating levels anywhere. I mix hybrid and I'd like to know if it has truly "pro" (analog-like) I/O levels or not.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 3:09:55 GMT -6
I can't find its operating levels anywhere. I mix hybrid and I'd like to know if it has truly "pro" (analog-like) I/O levels or not. be pretty shocked if it wasn't. But Im sure there will be a spec sheet on Avid's site at some point. |
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Post by javamad on Nov 13, 2020 3:51:52 GMT -6
Not a PT guy (so far) but I think its great to have a competitor in the Apollo space.
This will drive development on both sides and customers will benefit.
A lot happening in audio!
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Post by subspace on Nov 13, 2020 13:26:17 GMT -6
I can't find its operating levels anywhere. I mix hybrid and I'd like to know if it has truly "pro" (analog-like) I/O levels or not. Switchable per channel:  |
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 13, 2020 13:33:41 GMT -6
Thanks! I'm interested in finding out what would be the headroom above +4 dBu. Is it 18dB, 20 dB? i.e. if I hit it with a +4dBU signal, what's the dBFS in Pro Tools? And vice versa. EDIT: I found the Japanese manual (the English one is offline for some reason) and the max input/output is +24 dBU: resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/PT/Pro_Tools_Carbon_Guide_JPN.pdf |
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Post by subspace on Dec 27, 2020 23:56:09 GMT -6
Yes, Avid support says it supports the TB2>Ethernet adaptor, as a matter of fact you need both the USB-C>TB2 and TB2>ethernet adaptors to make it work with TB3. Ain't gonna work with my 2014 MBP regardless, have to wait out the new MBP/M1 processor/Big Sur compatibility to consider it. Ha ha, or just roll the dice that it will work with my 6 year old MBP...  Came in today. Plugged it into the Apple TB2>ethernet adapter, enabled AVB in AMS and it showed up as both a system i/o, as well as a 'reserved for PT' i/o. Playing back a video, the system audio defaulted to the monitor and HP1 outs. Launched PT 2020.12 and the Carbon i/o was all mapped and available, success. So far I've just been testing some DSP configurations including playing guitar through Brainworx bx_rockrack... pretty cool. The DIs are very nice with 5 impedence settings and the HP amps can get uncomfortably loud while staying clean. Looking forward to getting it hooked up in the studio tomorrow. Only tried it with Gig Performer 3 so far to check it's native latency, 2.8ms round trip at a 128 buffer. Interestingly, both the 'reserved for PT' i/o and system i/o were available simultaneously, so I could play a soft synth in GP3 while monitoring a drum track from PT on the same Carbon outputs. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 28, 2020 1:07:30 GMT -6
Yes, Avid support says it supports the TB2>Ethernet adaptor, as a matter of fact you need both the USB-C>TB2 and TB2>ethernet adaptors to make it work with TB3. Ain't gonna work with my 2014 MBP regardless, have to wait out the new MBP/M1 processor/Big Sur compatibility to consider it. Ha ha, or just roll the dice that it will work with my 6 year old MBP... Came in today. Plugged it into the Apple TB2>ethernet adapter, enabled AVB in AMS and it showed up as both a system i/o, as well as a 'reserved for PT' i/o. Playing back a video, the system audio defaulted to the monitor and HP1 outs. Launched PT 2020.12 and the Carbon i/o was all mapped and available, success. So far I've just been testing some DSP configurations including playing guitar through Brainworx bx_rockrack... pretty cool. The DIs are very nice with 5 impedence settings and the HP amps can get uncomforatably loud while staying clean. Looking forward to getting it hooked up in the studio tomorrow. Only tried it with Gig Performer 3 so far to check it's native latency, 2.8ms round trip at a 128 buffer. Interestingly, both the 'reserved for PT' i/o and system i/o were available simultaneously, so I could play a soft synth in GP3 while monitoring a drum track from PT on the same Carbon outputs. Congrats 🎊 I am happy for you 👏 The Carbon looks great. How is the sound quality? What interface did the Carbon replace? Please post comparison between Carbon & previous interface & the preamps quality. I don’t like the SF Apollo preamps. I know they’re designed to be clean & plugins provide “ character “ but they are stale & lifeless to me compared to my standalone HW pres. The Avid Omni preamps were useable / better imo than SF Apollo. I want the PT Carbon in a 2 or 4 preamp version with a tad more I/o + 2 mon outs to avoid a separate monitor controller. That’s why the Lynx N looks best for me cuz the I/ O & pres are configureable. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 28, 2020 1:11:17 GMT -6
dan yes the Lynx N looks so awesome to me right now. U can custom pick your I/O & preamps, each pair is shielded w/ own converter chips per stereo pair of ch. The Lynx monitor app looks pretty bad but easy to figure out like UAD console. Just don’t know how Lynx N performs in regard to HDX style tracking & HW inserts. drbill do you still have the HD I/O & HDX plug? A few years ago if I remember you were getting new HD IO interfaces & HDX cards for 30-50% less than retail. Was thinking about going to a 8x8 w HDX but it’s still 7000 at Sweetwater. They will have stock til 2030 at that price.
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Post by subspace on Dec 28, 2020 1:41:16 GMT -6
Congrats 🎊 I am happy for you 👏 The Carbon looks great. How is the sound quality? What interface did the Carbon replace? Please post comparison between Carbon & previous interface & the preamps quality. I don’t like the SF Apollo preamps. I know they’re designed to be clean & plugins provide “ character “ but they are stale & lifeless to me compared to my standalone HW pres. The Avid Omni preamps were useable / better imo than SF Apollo. I want the PT Carbon in a 2 or 4 preamp version with a tad more I/o + 2 mon outs to avoid a separate monitor controller. That’s why the Lynx N looks best for me cuz the I/ O & pres are configureable. Carbon has control for 3 monitor pairs, the dedicated TRS plus outs 1-4 on the DSUB. Existing interface in the studio is a MOTU 16A, which will still be used for 16 i/o over ADAT with Carbon, should be interesting comparing the two. Set up a 24 track template with a Brainworx SSL 9000 J on each channel using 7 of the 8 DSP, looking forward to tracking through the set-up. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 28, 2020 10:31:40 GMT -6
drbill do you still have the HD I/O & HDX plug? A few years ago if I remember you were getting new HD IO interfaces & HDX cards for 30-50% less than retail. Was thinking about going to a 8x8 w HDX but it’s still 7000 at Sweetwater. They will have stock til 2030 at that price. I'm running HDX2 - 112 I/o with mostly HD I/o's and a 192 or two. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 10:37:36 GMT -6
dan yes the Lynx N looks so awesome to me right now. U can custom pick your I/O & preamps, each pair is shielded w/ own converter chips per stereo pair of ch. The Lynx monitor app looks pretty bad but easy to figure out like UAD console. Just don’t know how Lynx N performs in regard to HDX style tracking & HW inserts. drbill do you still have the HD I/O & HDX plug? A few years ago if I remember you were getting new HD IO interfaces & HDX cards for 30-50% less than retail. Was thinking about going to a 8x8 w HDX but it’s still 7000 at Sweetwater. They will have stock til 2030 at that price. Lynx, Apogee, and Burl all reverse engineered the Avid timings for HDX. Avid can still stick it to them if they wanted. Lynx is most reliable over thunderbolt ime. More so than even the PCIE cards because there are less ways to set it up incorrectly. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 28, 2020 16:33:06 GMT -6
Avid probably should have done this years if not a couple of decades ago! If you don’t need a bunch of I/O, want to run PT with low latency and some plugins this is awesome. Wonder when we will see a Blacklion Modded version?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 30, 2020 18:07:21 GMT -6
Congrats 🎊 I am happy for you 👏 The Carbon looks great. How is the sound quality? What interface did the Carbon replace? Please post comparison between Carbon & previous interface & the preamps quality. I don’t like the SF Apollo preamps. I know they’re designed to be clean & plugins provide “ character “ but they are stale & lifeless to me compared to my standalone HW pres. The Avid Omni preamps were useable / better imo than SF Apollo. I want the PT Carbon in a 2 or 4 preamp version with a tad more I/o + 2 mon outs to avoid a separate monitor controller. That’s why the Lynx N looks best for me cuz the I/ O & pres are configureable. Carbon has control for 3 monitor pairs, the dedicated TRS plus outs 1-4 on the DSUB. Existing interface in the studio is a MOTU 16A, which will still be used for 16 i/o over ADAT with Carbon, should be interesting comparing the two. Set up a 24 track template with a Brainworx SSL 9000 J on each channel using 7 of the 8 DSP, looking forward to tracking through the set-up. Wow I watched both videos on Carbon and clearly missed that lol So are all 3 level matches & controllable mon outputs via software & front panel or just SW? Either way that’s great news! Excited to hear what you think of the sound quality. Idk if it’s me but I would be a little nervous running multiple interfaces. So if you clock the Motu off the Carbon & you record 24 inputs will they all be sample accurate aligned in Pro Tools edit window? Is there any other process needed for sample accurate recording thru both interfaces? |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 30, 2020 18:43:06 GMT -6
drbill do you still have the HD I/O & HDX plug? A few years ago if I remember you were getting new HD IO interfaces & HDX cards for 30-50% less than retail. Was thinking about going to a 8x8 w HDX but it’s still 7000 at Sweetwater. They will have stock til 2030 at that price. I'm running HDX2 - 112 I/o with mostly HD I/o's and a 192 or two. Wow! 112 I/O sheesh is that 56 ins and outs equally? What PT version are you on w/ the I/O setup? Do you ever have any issues w/ the SW & HW or it’s solid & stable? Think the biggest I have seen was 64 or 66 I/o for the 48 ch SSL w/ PT HD in Tree Sound Studio + the monitor DA. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 30, 2020 18:47:19 GMT -6
Im working towards growing my capabilities + I may be working at a new studio that will have Ultimate. So w/ everything that comes w/ copying & converting sessions from PT ULT to PT native it’s prob worth it for time & peace of mind to go PT ULT.
Then use an Avid HW Carbon or HD I/O to get the most out of the SW b/c idk if a 3rd party interface like Lynx does. Just don’t see myself needing 8 pres in the Carbon so that’s makes HDX w HD IO or a Lynx more attractive if Lynx can do everything an HD IO can.
The MTRX studio looks nice $5k, 2 pre, di, xlr ins, 16i/o ADAT 16 x 16 i/o on 2 dsub, 64 I/o Dante. Idk if I would use it to its full potential but it may be a good piece to grow with since it has more I/O esp analog I/O
The yearly for updates for both PT’s is a lot. It’s a write off but I still feel I’m being extorted lol .
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 19:17:17 GMT -6
I'm running HDX2 - 112 I/o with mostly HD I/o's and a 192 or two. Wow! 112 I/O sheesh is that 56 ins and outs equally? What PT version are you on w/ the I/O setup? Do you ever have any issues w/ the SW & HW or it’s solid & stable? Think the biggest I have seen was 64 or 66 I/o for the 48 ch SSL w/ PT HD in Tree Sound Studio + the monitor DA. Haha!!! 64/66 I/o?? That's a nice starter package. LOL I'm running : 112 In 112 Out  I'll probably end up with 120 in/out this year at some point - replacing a 192 with another HD16 I/o. With a hybrid mixing approach - more = better. No doubting that. Virtually all my hardware comes up on PT hardware inserts and they instantiate faster than a plugin. Most of my gear also runs thru patch bays so that I can chain outboard, but in general practice, I just take another skip out the I/o and keep patching inside PT. I'm on an HDX2 system running Ultimate 2019.10.0. I just let my subscription plan lapse, but I can still upgrade to 2020.11 at some point. Or reimplement my plan..... Throughout the years, HDX has been ROCK solid for me. No real glitches, minimal issues, latency compensation is killer with all the hardware inserts I'm running, etc.. My only gripe really is that Apple renders their operating systems DOA every year like clockwork. But that's an apple thing. I COULD switch over to PC. I love the system and can't imagine running anything else. |
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Post by thirdeye on Dec 30, 2020 20:23:01 GMT -6
Wow! 112 I/O sheesh is that 56 ins and outs equally? What PT version are you on w/ the I/O setup? Do you ever have any issues w/ the SW & HW or it’s solid & stable? Think the biggest I have seen was 64 or 66 I/o for the 48 ch SSL w/ PT HD in Tree Sound Studio + the monitor DA. Haha!!! 64/66 I/o?? That's a nice starter package. LOL I'm running : 112 In 112 Out I'll probably end up with 120 in/out this year at some point - replacing a 192 with another HD16 I/o. With a hybrid mixing approach - more = better. No doubting that. Virtually all my hardware comes up on PT hardware inserts and they instantiate faster than a plugin. Most of my gear also runs thru patch bays so that I can chain outboard, but in general practice, I just take another skip out the I/o and keep patching inside PT. I'm on an HDX2 system running Ultimate 2019.10.0. I just let my subscription plan lapse, but I can still upgrade to 2020.11 at some point. Or reimplement my plan..... Throughout the years, HDX has been ROCK solid for me. No real glitches, minimal issues, latency compensation is killer with all the hardware inserts I'm running, etc.. My only gripe really is that Apple renders their operating systems DOA every year like clockwork. But that's an apple thing. I COULD switch over to PC. I love the system and can't imagine running anything else. We are at 112 ins and 112 outs as well (using most of them, couple spares). Running PT2020.12 Ultimate Perpetual off of 2 x HDx cards on Windows 10. Super stable. Loving it!! Most of the gear comes up on TT patchbays. 16 channels (8 stereo FX processors) are not in the patchbay. All of our AD/DA is dedicated, no cross patching. Lynx Auroras and 192 i/o for hardware inserts, mic preamps, and summing outputs. Mytek and Apogee used for monitoring, and Lavry for printing. I have the system configured so far to do: -40 AD for mic preamps -56 hardware inserts -32 DA to SSL Sigma -8 AD/DA for studio monitoring (Xmon ins and outs) -8 DA for headphone cue system -2 AD for printing mixes |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 30, 2020 20:41:54 GMT -6
Ok this is great posts thanks for the thorough answers drbill thirdeye 112 going each way sheesh. Do all the HD I/Os interfaces connect via digilink or another way? If digilink is there a master unit w/ Digilink outputs? Or does one HD I/O plug into the next? The 64 I/O w/ SSL was mapped/ assigned similar to third eye’s w/ dedicated AD & DA for each step of the recording, monitoring, & mixing process. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 21:14:45 GMT -6
Ok this is great posts thanks for the thorough answers drbill thirdeye 112 going each way sheesh. Do all the HD I/Os interfaces connect via digilink or another way? If digilink is there a master unit w/ Digilink outputs? Or does one HD I/O plug into the next? . First, just as a note : all my I/o is set to be Pro Tools hardware inserts via a TT patch bay. So all interfaces have a looped insert normalled to it's associated piece of outboard gear - with an analog TT patch bay in between them - just in case. Simple, flexible and powerful. I do also have digital out 1/2 going to a Grace m905 D/A for monitoring. As for HDX : I have an HDX2 - 2 cards. Each HDX (PCIe) card has 2 Digilink outputs. Each output can support 2 interfaces. So on my system : HDX1 Output 1 goes into interface 1 which loops to interface 2. (each interface is 16 I/o). HDX1 Output 2 goes into interface 3 which loops to interface 4. HDX2 Output 3 goes into interface 5 which loops to interface 6. And etc., etc. Most of my interfaces (6) are HD16's and (2) are 8 channel 192's. I believe I will replace 1 192 with a HD 16 I/o at some point next year. That's why there's kind of an "odd" number in my setup. Normally for an HDX2 system you I/o would be 16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 112, 128 (max for HDX2). Going HDX3 could take you up to 192 I/O. Don't tempt me. Having a massive I/O count might seem insane to some, but it makes SO MANY studio functions SUPER flexible and simple. I have probably 130 channels of outboard gear and I rarely need to touch my patch bay. |
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Post by thirdeye on Dec 30, 2020 21:15:31 GMT -6
Ok this is great posts thanks for the thorough answers drbill thirdeye 112 going each way sheesh. Do all the HD I/Os interfaces connect via digilink or another way? If digilink is there a master unit w/ Digilink outputs? Or does one HD I/O plug into the next? The 64 I/O w/ SSL was mapped/ assigned similar to third eye’s w/ dedicated AD & DA for each step of the recording, monitoring, & mixing process. Mine is a bit of a hodge podge, but here goes... -HDx card #1 has two Lynx Aurora 16s with LTHD cards connected for 32 analog i/o and 32 digital i/o (one Aurora 16 LTHD per HDx port). The 32 digital i/o of the LTHD Auroras are hooked up to two more Aurora 16s via the AES i/o. This gives us a total of 64 analog i/o on the first HDx card. So 4 Lynx Aurora 16s total on one HDx card. -HDx card #2 has 2x 192 i/o's on port 1 and 1x 192 i/o on port 2. I use all the digital i/o on all three 192 i/o's to connect our additional converters for monitoring, printing, and 8 additional "utility" mic preamps. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 21:15:44 GMT -6
Haha!!! 64/66 I/o?? That's a nice starter package. LOL I'm running : 112 In 112 Out I'll probably end up with 120 in/out this year at some point - replacing a 192 with another HD16 I/o. With a hybrid mixing approach - more = better. No doubting that. Virtually all my hardware comes up on PT hardware inserts and they instantiate faster than a plugin. Most of my gear also runs thru patch bays so that I can chain outboard, but in general practice, I just take another skip out the I/o and keep patching inside PT. I'm on an HDX2 system running Ultimate 2019.10.0. I just let my subscription plan lapse, but I can still upgrade to 2020.11 at some point. Or reimplement my plan..... Throughout the years, HDX has been ROCK solid for me. No real glitches, minimal issues, latency compensation is killer with all the hardware inserts I'm running, etc.. My only gripe really is that Apple renders their operating systems DOA every year like clockwork. But that's an apple thing. I COULD switch over to PC. I love the system and can't imagine running anything else. We are at 112 ins and 112 outs as well (using most of them, couple spares). Running PT2020.12 Ultimate Perpetual off of 2 x HDx cards on Windows 10. Super stable. Loving it!! Most of the gear comes up on TT patchbays. 16 channels (8 stereo FX processors) are not in the patchbay. All of our AD/DA is dedicated, no cross patching. Lynx Auroras and 192 i/o for hardware inserts, mic preamps, and summing outputs. Mytek and Apogee used for monitoring, and Lavry for printing. I have the system configured so far to do: -40 AD for mic preamps -56 hardware inserts -32 DA to SSL Sigma -8 AD/DA for studio monitoring (Xmon ins and outs) -8 DA for headphone cue system -2 AD for printing mixes Sweet! I thought I was the only one that crazy.... Hahahaaaa! Sweet setup! |
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