|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 2, 2020 19:50:23 GMT -6
This Terry thing doesn’t have the frequencies labeled. There’s not even any labeling of the notches. It would fuck with my workflow. The version with unindented pots is going to be totally unusable. How the fuck can I scan the problem regions for resonances? Ah! Is it really not clear it’s not a sweepable EQ?! It’s a Pultec on steroids, it’s more in the vein of a Massive Passive. That’s clear as day to me. The frequencies are stepped, either version. You get stepped amount knobs, or not. Standard 12 position frequency switches I think, refer to it on a recall sheet by clock position, like everything else with 7 o’clock to 5 o’clock hash markings. Who needs a panel marking for that? I’m increasingly convinced this is a cultural aesthetic problem, NOT a labeling problem. |
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jun 2, 2020 20:26:01 GMT -6
Seems like possibly that’s a distinction without a difference. Convention helps user interfaces be intuitive. A gas stove knob operates “backwards” but it doesn’t trouble anyone, because it’s normal for a stove. Visual cues are just as much a part of convention as haptic ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 3, 2020 0:01:42 GMT -6
Again though..
for the price, its ridiculous. I can't think of a single master engineer that isn't going to want to use their ears to do their thing and then look down and take down recall notes just as quickly and accurately. This thing would take too much time to learn what the hell is what.
Plus you can get a Porter Grinder EQ for LESS than this thing and it takes up less rack space, and is fully customizable through Goly if you want and is still probably cheaper.
I don't see this thing selling in high numbers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 3, 2020 6:39:09 GMT -6
I just hope he erased all the numbers and letters off all his other gear!
P.S. My reaction to listening to the demo was, "JJ Puig and Jellyfish called and they want their production back."
|
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on Jun 3, 2020 7:11:00 GMT -6
Y'all are brutal!
The EQ sounds fantastic in the demo and me and another Mastering engineer are going to probably get one for eval....
The faceplate is not my thing but I am enquiring about a black panel..
Marshall knows his shit and the build is killer.
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 3, 2020 8:32:24 GMT -6
Seems like possibly that’s a distinction without a difference. Convention helps user interfaces be intuitive. A gas stove knob operates “backwards” but it doesn’t trouble anyone, because it’s normal for a stove. Visual cues are just as much a part of convention as haptic ones. See....all I see IS convention, just with minimalist colorful hand labeling. Like anything, you’d learn it fast if you used it. It’s not like you go overseas and abandon the trip because the water faucets are backwards and turn the other way. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
|
Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2020 9:09:56 GMT -6
Y'all are brutal! The EQ sounds fantastic in the demo and me and another Mastering engineer are going to probably get one for eval.... The faceplate is not my thing but I am enquiring about a black panel.. Marshall knows his shit and the build is killer. Honestly I would tell the manufacturer the same thing I have said to anybody who has brought this much personality to a front panel for the last 10+ years “ just make a cad Drawing available with holes drawn in so anybody can go to front panels express and design their own!”. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2020 9:17:19 GMT -6
Anybody notice the faceplate? Seems a little confusing...
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 3, 2020 9:21:57 GMT -6
Anybody notice the faceplate? Seems a little confusing... LMAO |
|
|
|
Post by terryaudio on Jun 3, 2020 14:10:01 GMT -6
This is awesome.
EMRR - yeah, that Gates 39B clone was fabulously built but didn't sound like 39's I've restored before. Hence, I dived in. Bypassed the second tube stage. Metal films went to some carbon comps. That helped a ton. Took the ice out. Release capacitor in the sidechain went to an older red Sprague I believe - ahh, even more magic vocal tone. Made some release times slower on the switch. Put the GR meter back in the plate path instead of through the cathode also had a sound and back to 39b territory. After doing all that, I put the interstage tube back in, changed coupling caps back away from polypropylene Sprague to wild old Micamold Tropicaps and the magic fast limiter sound with the 'biggering' effect we all love for vari mu just dimed right back. So it had an adventure, like all 'clones' do, to sound right - but perhaps always different, in ways we hope we want it to be. Doug's build is definitely still a bit less vibey, still, than a real Gates, even after I found an apprppriate NOS RCA OPT after all. Thanks for the emails and being the middleman for getting his build to the States for me. I should post again with pics and details on the Groupdiy forum. I added a double/triple-esque release switch too.
I like old stuff to have the expanded features we want and have all the huge charm and voodoo but with the extra improvements in clarity that some more fine tuning and current remasters can have. Many remasters still are a bit cold, although the depth, clarity and alive-ness is fantastic - I always miss the color of the original masters.
I'm making them in black, too. But the Record Plant wanted them in white.
I should be taking my first version video down soon and putting up the current revision. I was happy to make something as good as the Mastering Compressor but half the cost and a bit different with getting some iron out of the way. Pultec and Neumann filters with a few other passive tricks.
Passive inductor EQ's are the bread and butter sound. Just look how quick Bob Ross makes stuff look so good. Thats the idea. Use plugs and the Sontec-parametric clones for your control surgery number fantasies. The recall sheet has all the frequencies on it. Its nice to just grab your filter and sweep it around. Who cares what you found?
I love the stories on how Tom Dowd used to black out the meters on the machines when working for Atlantic. Anyone have a link to that?
Marshall
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jun 3, 2020 14:18:44 GMT -6
Love the profile picture, Marshall, great sense of humor!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 14:50:39 GMT -6
This is awesome. EMRR - yeah, that Gates 39B clone was fabulously built but didn't sound like 39's I've restored before. Hence, I dived in. Bypassed the second tube stage. Metal films went to some carbon comps. That helped a ton. Took the ice out. Release capacitor in the sidechain went to an older red Sprague I believe - ahh, even more magic vocal tone. Made some release times slower on the switch. Put the GR meter back in the plate path instead of through the cathode also had a sound and back to 39b territory. After doing all that, I put the interstage tube back in, changed coupling caps back away from polypropylene Sprague to wild old Micamold Tropicaps and the magic fast limiter sound with the 'biggering' effect we all love for vari mu just dimed right back. So it had an adventure, like all 'clones' do, to sound right - but perhaps always different, in ways we hope we want it to be. Doug's build is definitely still a bit less vibey, still, than a real Gates, even after I found an apprppriate NOS RCA OPT after all. Thanks for the emails and being the middleman for getting his build to the States for me. I should post again with pics and details on the Groupdiy forum. I added a double/triple-esque release switch too. I like old stuff to have the expanded features we want and have all the huge charm and voodoo but with the extra improvements in clarity that some more fine tuning and current remasters can have. Many remasters still are a bit cold, although the depth, clarity and alive-ness is fantastic - I always miss the color of the original masters. I'm making them in black, too. But the Record Plant wanted them in white. I should be taking my first version video down soon and putting up the current revision. I was happy to make something as good as the Mastering Compressor but half the cost and a bit different with getting some iron out of the way. Pultec and Neumann filters with a few other passive tricks. Passive inductor EQ's are the bread and butter sound. Just look how quick Bob Ross makes stuff look so good. Thats the idea. Use plugs and the Sontec-parametric clones for your control surgery number fantasies. The recall sheet has all the frequencies on it. Its nice to just grab your filter and sweep it around. Who cares what you found? I love the stories on how Tom Dowd used to black out the meters on the machines when working for Atlantic. Anyone have a link to that? Marshall Black panel with printed off small white paper labels with black text you can attach yourself would be better. It would look monstrous like an evil office tool. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 3, 2020 17:21:52 GMT -6
This is awesome. EMRR - yeah, that Gates 39B clone was fabulously built but didn't sound like 39's I've restored before. Hence, I dived in. Bypassed the second tube stage. Metal films went to some carbon comps. That helped a ton. Took the ice out. Release capacitor in the sidechain went to an older red Sprague I believe - ahh, even more magic vocal tone. Made some release times slower on the switch. Put the GR meter back in the plate path instead of through the cathode also had a sound and back to 39b territory. After doing all that, I put the interstage tube back in, changed coupling caps back away from polypropylene Sprague to wild old Micamold Tropicaps and the magic fast limiter sound with the 'biggering' effect we all love for vari mu just dimed right back. So it had an adventure, like all 'clones' do, to sound right - but perhaps always different, in ways we hope we want it to be. Doug's DaveP's build is definitely still a bit less vibey, still, than a real Gates, even after I found an appropriate NOS RCA OPT after all. Thanks for the emails and being the middleman for getting his build to the States for me. I should post again with pics and details on the Groupdiy forum. I added a double/triple-esque release switch too. I like old stuff to have the expanded features we want and have all the huge charm and voodoo but with the extra improvements in clarity that some more fine tuning and current remasters can have. Many remasters still are a bit cold, although the depth, clarity and alive-ness is fantastic - I always miss the color of the original masters. Yeah, audio obsessive, love it. Not a lot of people have experience (enough, or any at all) with the real thing to understand how they differ, and it takes awhile of studying it and the sonic effects of various parts to find a path to closer replication. DaveP is a believer in modern parts and design upgrades. I think I had said about this and several other clones, they were close for modern parts, yet still behaved differently in practice. I'm more and more convinced a lot of the vintage cap thing is higher ESR, it definitely is with caps that've been used for decades. |
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Jun 3, 2020 22:31:56 GMT -6
It took me a bit of staring at the recall sheet while watching the demo (which again I think sounds amazing!) and it started to become very clear, I'm guessing having it in front of me will make it even more so. Looking like I'll possibly get my hands on one in July so I'll know more then. Here's the demo link if anyone didn't click through. Oh wait, does he make shirts too? Just spray the thing flat black, buy a Dymo label maker and raise the price $500 to cover the "authentic vintage recreation cost" For $3400 entry price, all I should have to do is plug it in. |
|
|
|
Post by iamasound on Jun 4, 2020 3:52:25 GMT -6
I for sure and without a doubt won't be even contemplating the CEQ, but I took the one pill that makes me small, and White Rabbit piqued both my ears and interest. From the demo video White Rabbit might be something that might sit after my guitar and in front of my Iridium. Damn the odd graphics and full speed ahead. www.terryaudio.com/products/white-rabbit-product-page |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2020 6:56:37 GMT -6
This is awesome. EMRR - yeah, that Gates 39B clone was fabulously built but didn't sound like 39's I've restored before. Hence, I dived in. Bypassed the second tube stage. Metal films went to some carbon comps. That helped a ton. Took the ice out. Release capacitor in the sidechain went to an older red Sprague I believe - ahh, even more magic vocal tone. Made some release times slower on the switch. Put the GR meter back in the plate path instead of through the cathode also had a sound and back to 39b territory. After doing all that, I put the interstage tube back in, changed coupling caps back away from polypropylene Sprague to wild old Micamold Tropicaps and the magic fast limiter sound with the 'biggering' effect we all love for vari mu just dimed right back. So it had an adventure, like all 'clones' do, to sound right - but perhaps always different, in ways we hope we want it to be. Doug's build is definitely still a bit less vibey, still, than a real Gates, even after I found an apprppriate NOS RCA OPT after all. Thanks for the emails and being the middleman for getting his build to the States for me. I should post again with pics and details on the Groupdiy forum. I added a double/triple-esque release switch too. I like old stuff to have the expanded features we want and have all the huge charm and voodoo but with the extra improvements in clarity that some more fine tuning and current remasters can have. Many remasters still are a bit cold, although the depth, clarity and alive-ness is fantastic - I always miss the color of the original masters. I'm making them in black, too. But the Record Plant wanted them in white. I should be taking my first version video down soon and putting up the current revision. I was happy to make something as good as the Mastering Compressor but half the cost and a bit different with getting some iron out of the way. Pultec and Neumann filters with a few other passive tricks. Passive inductor EQ's are the bread and butter sound. Just look how quick Bob Ross makes stuff look so good. Thats the idea. Use plugs and the Sontec-parametric clones for your control surgery number fantasies. The recall sheet has all the frequencies on it. Its nice to just grab your filter and sweep it around. Who cares what you found? I love the stories on how Tom Dowd used to black out the meters on the machines when working for Atlantic. Anyone have a link to that? Marshall My 4 year old thinks they would look better with Freddy Fazbear and friends on them. |
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jun 4, 2020 6:58:50 GMT -6
Yeah! That White Rabbit sounds quite good in all the examples I found. Not too bad on price, either. Looks like some kind of two transistor boost / fuzz kind of thing. Totally quirky handwiring on the inside, Fender amp style. Kind of triggers my OCD a little bit but I guess some people are into that.
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 4, 2020 16:11:55 GMT -6
That is possible the ugliest and stupidest looking piece of gear I've ever seen. Actually the panel art reminds me a bit of my Wolfbox, except that the choice of colors is kinda drippy (on the EQ, not the Wolf) - like a melting ice cream cone. I can easily see what all the knobs do, however. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 4, 2020 16:18:31 GMT -6
There’s no labeling. Fuck that. I’d rather have the new Drawmer 1974 or use plugins. It IS labeled, after a fashion. All those squiggles and drips do have an easily decipherable meaning. Of courtse it has no numbers, but numbers without switched cfontrols are slightly meaningless anyway, and I'm sure the surface will take china marker. I trust that SOMEBODY around here is old enough to remember what china markers are for, right?
I wonder if this might be available with an unadorned black anodized panel so people could get it engraved at a local shop?
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 4, 2020 16:30:36 GMT -6
User interface is an important part of design. There's a ton of information that needs to be conveyed to a user.. hopefully intuitively, quickly, without confusion. I look at that thing and I have no idea what it does or how to use it. It took me about 15 seconds to work everything out. It uses standard "squiggle" icons for HP, BP, and LP. Same icons that have been used by manufacturers since Pultec. The only thing lacking is numbers, and numbers without switched controls are meaningless, since there's about a 20% tolerance on nearly all pots (except really, really expensive ones) and any two pots of the same type, model, and manufacturer can pretty much be guaranteed NOT to track each other. Numbers are kinda nice for ballparking stuff, but that's about it.
For exact repetition of settings you need china markers. Even if you have numbers.
What I'm curious about is what's inside, specifically, is this an inductor EQ? If it's chips it's not very interesting - I have 32 channels of parametric eq (chip) on my console.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jun 4, 2020 16:38:48 GMT -6
That is possible the ugliest and stupidest looking piece of gear I've ever seen. Actually the panel art reminds me a bit of my Wolfbox, except that the choice of colors is kinda drippy (on the EQ, not the Wolf) - like a melting ice cream cone. I can easily see what all the knobs do, however. Hey I resemble that remark, haha. Is the wolfbox sounding good to you? Haven't heard yet. I guess you could start a thread about it and Terry can make jokes about my hand labeling. I used some trippy colors on my personal builds but I'm not sure if they're "for everyone." Some people care more or less about it, I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 4, 2020 16:51:30 GMT -6
I had to figure out what everything really did on a pultec both perceptually and frequency wise to bring my head around it. It has a perverse logic to it. It took me a few hours. I’ve used a lot of gear like that. Fuck most the gear and plugs on my current album is like that. I like that a lot of the pultec changes are incredibly subtle. It’s just part of the box and I like that for coloring individual tracks. It’s a 5k color box that’s mostly not worth 5k in today’s business but that tube flavor is nice and I’m sure the Pulse ones kick the shit out of all the cheaped out clones. The KT ones are surely going to be worse than plugins. Tube gear can’t be skimped out. By all means the Apogee and Ignite plugs are decent for that subtle color but the real thing is a real thing. Sure I can get a better tube line stage but whatever. The pultecs are simple to use once learned and set it and forget it on a lot of instruments and mixes. It solves problems and can make things better. Same with the Dangerous Bax EQ and clones of it. Simple and Solves problems. But This Terry thing doesn’t have the frequencies labeled. There’s not even any labeling of the notches. It would fuck with my workflow. The version with unindented pots is going to be totally unusable. How the fuck can I scan the problem regions for resonances? I can hear something is wrong and want to sweep a certain region. I’ve used a ton of different eqs in studios and various plugs at home. It needs to have some logic. I might think x project is gonna use mainly channel strip y with z for the secondary eq if needed. Anything unlabeled and unnotched is going to just waste my time. That’s also the problem with shit like the stock reaper plugs. Who the hell designed those guis? I thought fab filter was bad. ReaEQ is for guys visually mixing with their eyes. The notched version of this Terry thing is going to be counting clicks and the unnotched version just wasting my time trying to eq out some resonance from some hesher’s shitty cab he uses to play live four times a year or add some weight and smoothness without wrecking his “tone” Maybe this can do the job but that hesher might think you’re some acid casualty hippie with that kindergarten art class panel. They’re gonna think you’re Bob Ross and not some guy they can pay a few hundred to few thousand dollars to who will solve their problems for them. A lot of casework is for flexing. I don’t like having to explain stuff. I’m not going to buy Focusrite gear in 2020 because it’s not that great and I don’t want to have to explain and prove that the expensive overpriced Chinese ones are like 5/10 and not 0/10 gear like the Scarlet 2i2 to some guitarists. Meanwhile the aluminum case work on the older UK stuff does all the talking for you like the Lavry Gold. This Terry thing better be actually great. I mean it has to be a better tool and sound better things that look better than it that are also very expensive. Ears, not eyes. Even on my console EQs which are totally conventional I only pay alternation to the markings in an "oh, am I near the ballpark yet?" sort of way. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 4, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -6
Seems like possibly that’s a distinction without a difference. Convention helps user interfaces be intuitive. A gas stove knob operates “backwards” but it doesn’t trouble anyone, because it’s normal for a stove. Visual cues are just as much a part of convention as haptic ones. Over reliance on graphics casn be detrimental to the art of audio engineering.
This kinda reminds me of a recent thread on GS where a guy was insisting that he was getting a "1k hum" when he plugs his guitar into his computer. He utterly refused to post a clip and when pressed on it by multiple people he blew up a started going off about "I KNOW what 1K is! You think I don't KNOW what 1K is?" Blah, blah, blah.
Actually I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't actually a 1k tone and that no, he probably really doesn't know what "1K is" with any real accuracy. He MIGHT know what the panel on some box he has says 1K is.... maybe.
People need to learn to LISTEN and not rely on what their eyes tell them all the time.
I'm pretty sure I figured out what the guy's problem was - he was using a custom built gaming tower and finally, after months of tooth pulling, we finally got enough info out of the guy for me to predict that it was almost certainly RFI leaklage being spewed by his ridiculously overpowered video card. Never found out for sure because of the guy's unresponsiveness on info requests and general lack of co-operation, which eventually got the thread locked for trolling...
If he'd posted a clip the first time I asked I could have nailed it for without the ensuing months of wrangling and acrimony. The sound of a data modulated RFI leak is pretty distinctive.
|
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jun 4, 2020 17:20:46 GMT -6
It’s not really the lack of numbers that bothered me.
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 4, 2020 17:36:39 GMT -6
Actually the panel art reminds me a bit of my Wolfbox, except that the choice of colors is kinda drippy (on the EQ, not the Wolf) - like a melting ice cream cone. I can easily see what all the knobs do, however. Hey I resemble that remark, haha. Is the wolfbox sounding good to you? Haven't heard yet. I guess you could start a thread about it and Terry can make jokes about my hand labeling. I used some trippy colors on my personal builds but I'm not sure if they're "for everyone." Some people care more or less about it, I guess. I generally like trippy colors as long as they're black. Have not had a chance to use the Wolfbox yet, everythings on hold due to the lockdown. Haven't even been able to get a band practice together. |
|
