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Post by thehightenor on Jan 17, 2024 15:08:09 GMT -6
I think the 2a is an excellent first compressor for someone. It only has a couple knobs, so it's hard to screw anything up too bad, and it has enough of a sound to make it worth using to add some color. For the price, you really can't ask for more. Actually 2A’s are very good at screwing up takes! Ime they have a surprisingly narrow sweet spot between “vanilla” and “oversaturated” It’s a compressor that demands the right source/ pre to pair with it. Now a Retro STA Level - there’s a piece you have to work really hard to f’up a take  |
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Post by notneeson on Jan 17, 2024 15:53:17 GMT -6
I think the 2a is an excellent first compressor for someone. It only has a couple knobs, so it's hard to screw anything up too bad, and it has enough of a sound to make it worth using to add some color. For the price, you really can't ask for more. Actually 2A’s are very good at screwing up takes! Ime they have a surprisingly narrow sweet spot between “vanilla” and “oversaturated” It’s a compressor that demands the right source/ pre to pair with it. Now a Retro STA Level - there’s a piece you have to work really hard to f’up a take Overshoot on an opto can be an issue when the recovery time is so slow. It ends up sounding like a bad fader move on the latter part of a phrase. |
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Post by vintagelove on Jan 17, 2024 15:57:29 GMT -6
A person looking for their first compressor, likely doesn't have the ears to hear compression well yet, and as a result shouldn't be taking more than a few db off on the way in anyway. I thought it sounded fine in that range.
If you're doing more that that, and you don't really know what you're doing, you can also screw up the sound with lots of compressors that cost way more than the 2a.
PS, there's also a good chance the speed of their opto's vary enough from unit to unit, that it could very well explain our different experiences.
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Post by notneeson on Jan 17, 2024 15:59:34 GMT -6
A person looking for their first compressor, likely doesn't have the ears to hear compression well yet, and as a result shouldn't be taking more than a few db off on the way in anyway. I thought it sounded fine in that range. If you're doing more that that, and you don't really know what you're doing, you can also screw up the sound with lots of compressors that cost way more than the 2a. Don't disagree with any of that, just remembering some of my early fails with an LA4 long ago. (Which you can also make sound bad by clipping, FWIW). |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 18, 2024 2:10:30 GMT -6
Well you bastards got me.
I was looking for a deal on a 1176-KT or KT-2A and instead I ended up with both of those and a Distressor. I can't turn down a great deal when I get one. Anyway, looking forward to comparing the KT-2A to my beloved AudioScape Opto and... well honestly I don't know why I bought the Distressor other than I got it mint for $1000 and couldn't pass it up. I figure as a Swiss army knife hardware comp I'll use it plenty and if not I can sell it for that price easy.
Jerks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 8:23:05 GMT -6
A lot of people have a lot of less than glowing things to say about the KT76 and KT2a, but they do a remarkable job of emulating the 1981 Vestax Distortion guitar pedal! Total bonus. While there is a lot to hate about the KT clones, I have to say you can’t sit back and ignore the concept of what Behringer could do if they raised the price point and really tried. Because that’s always been the scariest thing about Behringer they always do a passable job at a much lower price point, their size,design talent, and world wide distribution chain could build a better cheaper clone and everybody in the buisness knows it. So what keeps them from doing it? Probably their market research shows that the numbers just are not there if you jump to even the price point of say Warm. They would lose their market niche and suddenly having post solder reflow QC and real capacitors would cost them a lot in labor and parts. They would have to gasp, engineer, their equipment to be high fidelity and durable. Same with the other brands who sold out to Chinese contract manufacturing like SSL, Mackie, Focusrite, SSL. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 9:43:01 GMT -6
A person looking for their first compressor, likely doesn't have the ears to hear compression well yet, and as a result shouldn't be taking more than a few db off on the way in anyway. I thought it sounded fine in that range. If you're doing more that that, and you don't really know what you're doing, you can also screw up the sound with lots of compressors that cost way more than the 2a. PS, there's also a good chance the speed of their opto's vary enough from unit to unit, that it could very well explain our different experiences. That's not true at all. An LA2A sounds like a queesy fader move with a only a couple of VU off, which is a lot more than 1-2 db off. It will hold down your audio and pump it around as the level increases. And the first note of anything under gain reduction won't behave well because it's a slow feedback compressor. Then the sound of the device changes further based on the parts binning (if any), component age, and temperature.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 18, 2024 11:30:43 GMT -6
Well you bastards got me. I was looking for a deal on a 1176-KT or KT-2A and instead I ended up with both of those and a Distressor. I can't turn down a great deal when I get one. Anyway, looking forward to comparing the KT-2A to my beloved AudioScape Opto and... well honestly I don't know why I bought the Distressor other than I got it mint for $1000 and couldn't pass it up. I figure as a Swiss army knife hardware comp I'll use it plenty and if not I can sell it for that price easy. Jerks. Also a better T4 is only like $99 and an easy drop in for the KT-2A… worth considering. I haven’t done it myself but others have and are very happy with the results. |
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Post by notneeson on Jan 18, 2024 12:04:15 GMT -6
Well you bastards got me. I was looking for a deal on a 1176-KT or KT-2A and instead I ended up with both of those and a Distressor. I can't turn down a great deal when I get one. Anyway, looking forward to comparing the KT-2A to my beloved AudioScape Opto and... well honestly I don't know why I bought the Distressor other than I got it mint for $1000 and couldn't pass it up. I figure as a Swiss army knife hardware comp I'll use it plenty and if not I can sell it for that price easy. Jerks. Also a better T4 is only like $99 and an easy drop in for the KT-2A… worth considering. I haven’t done it myself but others have and are very happy with the results. I put a Kenetek in a KT-2A and it was cool. I ended up selling mainly because I’m transitioning to 500 series for issues of space at my humble spot. While the Audioscape LA3 box is different, I don’t miss the KT for what I’m doing, but I’d gladly use one again should the occasion arise. I don’t consider the KT particularly different from the very over priced UA reissue version, which I’ve also used a bunch. Kinda reminded me of the ADL version with Jensens maybe. All of this is just impressions, but I could cut vocals with any of the above quite happily. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 12:15:35 GMT -6
Also a better T4 is only like $99 and an easy drop in for the KT-2A… worth considering. I haven’t done it myself but others have and are very happy with the results. I put a Kenetek in a KT-2A and it was cool. I ended up selling mainly because I’m transitioning to 500 series for issues of space at my humble spot. While the Audioscape LA3 box is different, I don’t miss the KT for what I’m doing, but I’d gladly use one again should the occasion arise. I don’t consider the KT particularly different from the very over priced UA reissue version, which I’ve also used a bunch. Kinda reminded me of the ADL version with Jensens maybe. All of this is just impressions, but I could cut vocals with any of the above quite happily. I can replace the LA2A with a DBX 160 whatever in soft knee and be perfectly happy if any limiter is after it. Oxford Dynamics is fine for that and it's ancient. The 1176 pump from being dug in or the LA2A outside of the sweetspot is way harder to control after the fact than a vocalist ime |
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Post by vintagelove on Jan 18, 2024 14:09:41 GMT -6
A person looking for their first compressor, likely doesn't have the ears to hear compression well yet, and as a result shouldn't be taking more than a few db off on the way in anyway. I thought it sounded fine in that range. If you're doing more that that, and you don't really know what you're doing, you can also screw up the sound with lots of compressors that cost way more than the 2a. PS, there's also a good chance the speed of their opto's vary enough from unit to unit, that it could very well explain our different experiences. That's not true at all. An LA2A sounds like a queesy fader move with a only a couple of VU off, which is a lot more than 1-2 db off. It will hold down your audio and pump it around as the level increases. And the first note of anything under gain reduction won't behave well because it's a slow feedback compressor. Then the sound of the device changes further based on the parts binning (if any), component age, and temperature.
Maybe a real La2a does, but a KT has a useable response in that range (at least the unit I heard did. It's very possible that variations in their opto's account for different experiences among users). We have to be realistic about the product we're talking about, the competition, and most importantly, the intended user. This isn't targeted at people with racks full of gear and years of experience. It's most likely someone's first or second compressor. If you hand the majority of these folks a comp (which most of us here would agree is an all around better compressor) like the Aphex 651. They would probably end up in one of the following scenarios. 1 - Not understanding what all the knobs actually do. 2 - Seriously screwing up the signal when they push it too far because they were... 3 - Scratching their head wondering why they couldn't hear it working. It's a solid piece for people learning to use a compressor. It sounds good with a few db of compression, has a decent box sound (for the price), and has a great price. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 18, 2024 16:14:28 GMT -6
I like the KT-2a OK. I've got lots of opto options, and it's generally my last in line, but it works as it should, although it's not extremely vibey.
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Post by copperx on Jan 18, 2024 17:57:43 GMT -6
I like the KT-2a OK. I've got lots of opto options, and it's generally my last in line, but it works as it should, although it's not extremely vibey. What a glowing review, Dr! ✨ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 18:15:29 GMT -6
I like the KT-2a OK. I've got lots of opto options, and it's generally my last in line, but it works as it should, although it's not extremely vibey. What a glowing review, Dr! ✨ Yeah, damned with faint praise..
"I guess it's okay, it ain't shit I suppose.. I use it when everything else is broken"..
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Post by drbill on Jan 18, 2024 19:07:07 GMT -6
You guys are reading this wrong. It's a decent compressor that has some serious competition over here. I have a hand stereo LA2a - built with premium parts that cost close to $3k. I have a AudioScape Opto that's AWESOME! I have 4 Serpent SA3a's which I dearly love and often choose over the tubed versions. I've got a pair of JLM LA500A's which are excellent when I need their particular vibe. So it takes a lot to overcome the competition. But the KT is certainly not something to dis. It just can't hold a candle to units that cost 10X's as much. It still gets used though. Just to spite you guys, I think I'm going to throw it on a mix right now. And I won't have a problem with it!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 19:12:21 GMT -6
You guys are reading this wrong. It's a decent compressor that has some serious competition over here. I have a hand stereo LA2a - built with premium parts that cost close to $3k. I have a AudioScape Opto that's AWESOME! I have 4 Serpent SA3a's which I dearly love and often choose over the tubed versions. I've got a pair of JLM LA500A's which are excellent when I need their particular vibe. So it takes a lot to overcome the competition. But the KT is certainly not something to dis. It just can't hold a candle to units that cost 10X's as much. It still gets used though. Just to spite you guys, I think I'm going to throw it on a mix right now. And I won't have a problem with it!! Or maybe we're just tugging your rope chief  .. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 22:47:12 GMT -6
Actually 2A’s are very good at screwing up takes! Ime they have a surprisingly narrow sweet spot between “vanilla” and “oversaturated” It’s a compressor that demands the right source/ pre to pair with it. Now a Retro STA Level - there’s a piece you have to work really hard to f’up a take Overshoot on an opto can be an issue when the recovery time is so slow. It ends up sounding like a bad fader move on the latter part of a phrase. the t4b overshoot horribly with age too |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 23:15:47 GMT -6
That's not true at all. An LA2A sounds like a queesy fader move with a only a couple of VU off, which is a lot more than 1-2 db off. It will hold down your audio and pump it around as the level increases. And the first note of anything under gain reduction won't behave well because it's a slow feedback compressor. Then the sound of the device changes further based on the parts binning (if any), component age, and temperature.
Maybe a real La2a does, but a KT has a useable response in that range (at least the unit I heard did. It's very possible that variations in their opto's account for different experiences among users). We have to be realistic about the product we're talking about, the competition, and most importantly, the intended user. This isn't targeted at people with racks full of gear and years of experience. It's most likely someone's first or second compressor. If you hand the majority of these folks a comp (which most of us here would agree is an all around better compressor) like the Aphex 651. They would probably end up in one of the following scenarios. 1 - Not understanding what all the knobs actually do. 2 - Seriously screwing up the signal when they push it too far because they were... 3 - Scratching their head wondering why they couldn't hear it working. It's a solid piece for people learning to use a compressor. It sounds good with a few db of compression, has a decent box sound (for the price), and has a great price. it’s not usable if there are any transients. It will hold down the audio and act as pointless slight modulation like slowly wiggling the fader. 10 ms or more attack and what like multiple seconds release. You need to get it into the faster release by doing deeper gain reduction but not so much that you flatline it. This varies unit to unit because qc sucks, overshoot varies with age. And this is different with the diff ratios on every unit. Every peak detecting compressor with an auto release or built in multiple times constants works this way. An ssl bus just gives you more sweet spots by different attacks and different ratios for different amounts of gain reduction, peak shaping, and overshoot. An la2a is all over the place. Once this is understood, all the older peak compressors become usable unless they are pieces of shit. Even an art vla. The ones with more program dependency, ie auto releases (which also Modify the attack) can do deeper amounts of gain reduction cleanly but they have to be in their sweet spot. Of course something like an ssl bus style comp, Daking, or the Drawmer auto comps are going to be way smoother than an 1176 and more controllable than an LA2A but even those are quite primitive volume control devices despite being much better than the first optical and the first fet compressor from back in the 60s. |
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Post by copperx on Jan 19, 2024 0:16:09 GMT -6
Dan, thank you for making me feel I'm not crazy and that it isn't just me.
I'll confess that I've never understood the LA2A. To me, it always sounds like a drunk person is automating the vocal. It always reacts too late and by too much. Even at 1-2 dB reduction it's very annoying. It behaves better after an 1176, but the box tone is mushy; I don't see the point. In contrast, I would marry the CL1B. Now that's a beautiful sounding box.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 19, 2024 0:59:03 GMT -6
Dan, thank you for making me feel I'm not crazy and that it isn't just me. I'll confess that I've never understood the LA2A. To me, it always sounds like a drunk person is automating the vocal. It always reacts too late and by too much. Even at 1-2 dB reduction it's very annoying. It behaves better after an 1176, but the box tone is mushy; I don't see the point. In contrast, I would marry the CL1B. Now that's a beautiful sounding box. This is puzzling to me. I used a KT-2A all day today on vocals and electric guitar. Around 3 dB of reduction in compressor mode. No weird artifacts. Didn’t sound drunk or like a weird fader dip or whatever. Sounded just fine and brought some consistency to the level. I was using it after a Spectra C610 - but even that was just engaging a little bit? I dunno. To each their own which is what’s kinda fun and nice about ‘gear’. If it works and makes you happy, cool! |
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Post by copperx on Jan 19, 2024 1:17:12 GMT -6
I'm thinking that I dislike the darkening effect, which can make the lyrics get buried.
My (Audioscape) LA3A is just as slow as an LA2A, but I rarely find it unusable.
Maybe the UA reissue I tried most recently just sucks. The sound coming out of the box always sounded more dynamic than what came in.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 19, 2024 2:28:16 GMT -6
You guys are reading this wrong. It's a decent compressor that has some serious competition over here. I have a hand stereo LA2a - built with premium parts that cost close to $3k. I have a AudioScape Opto that's AWESOME! I have 4 Serpent SA3a's which I dearly love and often choose over the tubed versions. I've got a pair of JLM LA500A's which are excellent when I need their particular vibe. So it takes a lot to overcome the competition. But the KT is certainly not something to dis. It just can't hold a candle to units that cost 10X's as much. It still gets used though. Just to spite you guys, I think I'm going to throw it on a mix right now. And I won't have a problem with it!! The Audioscape Opto is awesome - got mine s/h in mint condition for $700! They have a sale on currently selling them for $999. I can’t imagine why anyone would buy a mass produced - cost saving - average sounding unit over the AS hand build no compromise built with passion made in USA unit for the sake of stuffing some extra pennies in the piggie bank for a few more months. That AS unit has got some real “68” vibe to it imho. |
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Post by vintagelove on Jan 19, 2024 3:08:31 GMT -6
It's a solid piece for people learning to use a compressor. It sounds good with a few db of compression, has a decent box sound (for the price), and has a great price. It will hold down the audio and act as pointless slight modulation like slowly wiggling the fader. 10 ms or more attack and what like multiple seconds release. You need to get it into the faster release by doing deeper gain reduction Here the thing (beside the obvious that you need to choose the right sources to use it on), the intended buyer, 1 - likely can't hear that yet 2 - wouldn't know how to fix if if they had the extra control to do so. 3 - might understand 30% of what you just wrote. It's probably been a long time since you didn't know what 10ms sounded like. However, you have to remember, much of the intended market for this box are just learning to really hear compression. They're better off with fewer knobs, and learning to really hear it... or not compressing at all. But if they don't compress at all, how do they learn? Sure they could use plugins, but then they aren't learning about the other things that go with using actual hardware (signal flow, gain staging, Delay Compensation, etc)... So I stand by, this is a good box to learn on. Once they know what they're doing they will realize this isn't the tool for every job, and they can acquire something else. But... they'll still have everything they learned from it, along with a useful box still in the rack waiting for the right source. I don't think that's a bad way to spend a few hundred bucks. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 19, 2024 3:51:43 GMT -6
It will hold down the audio and act as pointless slight modulation like slowly wiggling the fader. 10 ms or more attack and what like multiple seconds release. You need to get it into the faster release by doing deeper gain reduction Here the thing (beside the obvious that you need to choose the right sources to use it on), the intended buyer, 1 - likely can't hear that yet 2 - wouldn't know how to fix if if they had the extra control to do so. 3 - might understand 30% of what you just wrote. It's probably been a long time since you didn't know what 10ms sounded like. However, you have to remember, much of the intended market for this box are just learning to really hear compression. They're better off with fewer knobs, and learning to really hear it... or not compressing at all. But if they don't compress at all, how do they learn? Sure they could use plugins, but then they aren't learning about the other things that go with using actual hardware (signal flow, gain staging, Delay Compensation, etc)... So I stand by, this is a good box to learn on. Once they know what they're doing they will realize this isn't the tool for every job, and they can acquire something else. But... they'll still have everything they learned from it, along with a useful box still in the rack waiting for the right source. I don't think that's a bad way to spend a few hundred bucks. I really don't agree - I think an LA2A is a terrible compressor to learn compression on imho. It was originally designed (like the STA Level) as an A.M radio broadcast limiter - only to be re-imagined as a studio comp/limiter. It has a very limited sweet post because of the tube and trafo saturation - and it has a funky attack and release very much programme material based. It's two knob control makes it harder to use imho as the other elements of control fall to factors outside the units controllable parameters. I think if a "newbie" wants to learn about tracking compression a simple VCA with dedicated attack, release, threshold and GMU will let them see how these parameters interact and the lack of saturation will let them understand the source/compression relationship better, as the 2A's tube and trafo saturation act to a small degree as a non time based form of compression - so that's another layer of compression not accounted for in the traditional parameters of a solid state compressor (for example) It's true when you get a 2A into's sweet spot they can be glorious - but they can be quite ugly with just a small twist in the wrong direction or hitting them too hard with an uneven broadband signal. Obviously - you don't agree - but that's cool, I can respect that |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 19, 2024 4:04:36 GMT -6
I think the Dr makes a good point, are you looking for a usable opto compression effect or a really vibey classic sound?
We actually have both options depending on what you buy: each have their use.
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