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Post by drbill on Aug 24, 2019 9:50:05 GMT -6
Right. It's SOooo useful to make a post on Farcebook that will scroll off the page within a few hours. Right. GREAT marketing tactic!
And then you put up a website that has ZERO useful information about any of your products.
Who are these people marketing to, preschoolers?
Actually, it is! How else will your followers and customers and potential clients know you updated your web page with info? Oh, you could send them a email, or maybe compose a thoughtful newsletter email, (for people that still like email) or you could call them individually? (How do you try to get them on your email list?) Or you could post on RGO, (god forbid the purple page) hmmmm. Trying to find ways to “reach” people, (all people, or just some people?) You could pay $400-$500 for a ad in a zine that 3-5% of customers actually read or even get. You could post a video on You-tube, hoping your “subscribers” on that page click back to your site. You could tell your friends to tell their friends. Actually - I buy a LOT of gear. A lot. And I've never used Facebook - ever, and rarely use Instagram (only on the rare occasion). If you only use those methods for selling, you've lost me. And potential sales.
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Post by mike on Aug 24, 2019 10:35:53 GMT -6
Anyone here ever compare the Dizengoff D4 to the Chandler Redd 47 side by side to see how far apart they are?
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 24, 2019 12:36:22 GMT -6
Yes, all of that. Don’t forget to pay FB advertising fees to be sure more of your followers actually see your post. So....not free if effective. I’m not at all against FB/I for this, just pointing out the disconnect in coverage. Some cover it all well, and I don’t think it’s that hard. Many use a social media consultant to get full coordinated placement. Once it fall off the top of the feed, it's gone, unless you....put it on your website.... Yeah, my point exactly - once it's off the top of the feed it's gone. Useless for advertising. You want your advertising to be persistent.
Gmail sends all FB notifications to a "Social" folder, noty the primary. Since my "social" folder fills daily with 99.999% absolute junk I never get notifications from FB. So anything posted to FB that I'm not already looking for goes into a black hole, never to be seen again. Or seen in the first place. When Gmail starterd dividing social media (and promotions) into their own separate folders I tried keeping up for a couple/few weeks, but found that I was spending all my time sorting junk and getting nothing done. So I stopped looking at those folders.
I assume that many, if not most people have a similar overload situation and never see anything I post on FB. Unless, of course, they're the type of people who spend all their available time browsing and "interacting" on FB of course. But somehow I doubt that such people actually but much audio gear - they're too busy Facebooking. I know quite a few people like that, but rarely interact with any of them anymore....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 24, 2019 12:42:52 GMT -6
Anyone here ever compare the Dizengoff D4 to the Chandler Redd 47 side by side to see how far apart they are? I’d love to hear that myself. I’ve heard from two people they’re indistinguishable, but that was quite a while back. I don’t remember where I got that info from.
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 24, 2019 17:46:34 GMT -6
Is this Audio Forum considered a Social Channel?
Yes, I think so.
Even more so, because you heard about a gear post on Instagram, from an audio company, (see thread title) that might have interested you, if it made its way to you...how exactly?
I get that you dislike Social Media (except, for RGO, YouTube?) blogs? I dunno...I don’t think it’s a newspaper though. Or is it?
I get that You’re interested in the material, but not the delivery method.
I just don’t understand how you are expecting to hear about a web page update.
It’s not been made clear yet.
Every customer is different. Some dislike social media, some dislike emails, some dislike phone calls, some dislike YouTube. So on, and so forth.
I’ll end it there.
Carry on!
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Post by lpedrum on Aug 24, 2019 18:10:25 GMT -6
Is this Audio Forum considered a Social Channel? Yes, I think so. Even more so, because you heard about a gear post on Instagram, from an audio company, (see thread title) that might have interested you, if it made its way to you...how exactly? I get that you dislike Social Media (except, for RGO, YouTube?) blogs? I dunno...I don’t think it’s a newspaper though. Or is it? I get that You’re interested in the material, but not the delivery method. I just don’t understand how you are expecting to hear about a web page update. It’s not been made clear yet. Every customer is different. Some dislike social media, some dislike emails, some dislike phone calls, some dislike YouTube. So on, and so forth. I’ll end it there. Carry on! Everyone's making good points here. I use FB and Instagram but I'm a holdout on Twitter--just doesn't appeal to me. For gear builders that I like such as Signal Art mics, I do follow them on Facebook because I like to read about the week to week goings on. But I guess that I'm somewhat "old school" in that I think all forms of digital connection should be secondary and complimentary to a well-managed web site. I like to be able to go to a central site for the comprehensive cataloging of everything a company is doing--pics, models, prices, videos, reviews, where to buy etc. If a web site is skimpy with info I'm not likely to be a purchaser.
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Post by drbill on Aug 24, 2019 19:01:31 GMT -6
It's funny to think that "web sites" are now considered "old school". LOL
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 24, 2019 19:24:39 GMT -6
Who are these people marketing to, preschoolers?
Hah! Actually, Kind of.. They were preschoolers not very long ago, and social media is where they spend their time ..hours of it, every day. They don't have much use for computers, they have phones. For some of us, including myself, it's hard to understand. Yet, that's the way it is - and if you don't participate, not only are you out of the loop but you are a loser. This is simple truth for a LOT of young folk, and certainly post-millennials, who are starting to become a significant consumer demographic. One, which by the way needs to be cultivated even if they may not have a lot of money right now. I HAD to join Faceplant in order to enroll and participate in a professional development opportunity almost seven years ago. I dropped the account recently, but I can tell you that more business than you can imagine is 100% driven by social media.There's no question that of us who don't use social media are being ignored by many sellers, but they don't care. There are lots of fish to be caught and social media is the new ocean. They don't even care that for us, a product without a well-maintained and up-to-date website is a red-flag. The sad truth is they don't need us - or at least it's not worth it for them to reach out beyond social media to find us. The truth is that they DO need us - desperately - but they're too damn stupid, lazy, and brainwashed by the "cyber-pushers" to realize or understand that.
They're too dumb to grasp that in advertising to the "low hanging fruit" who generate clicks but actually purchase very little real product they're ignoring their primary market.
In a market like pro audio "clicks" are a very poor indicator of how well you're reaching your real customer base.
Maybe it works well if you're marketing games for morons to play on their stupid phones, maybe even for some non-virtual products that have a wide appeal to the general population, but for technically specialized products?
Pull the other one, it has got bells on! (as the late, great Terry Pratchett used to say.....)
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 24, 2019 19:31:40 GMT -6
Is this Audio Forum considered a Social Channel? Yes, I think so. Even more so, because you heard about a gear post on Instagram, from an audio company, (see thread title) that might have interested you, if it made its way to you...how exactly? I get that you dislike Social Media (except, for RGO, YouTube?) blogs? I dunno...I don’t think it’s a newspaper though. Or is it? I get that You’re interested in the material, but not the delivery method. I just don’t understand how you are expecting to hear about a web page update. It’s not been made clear yet. Every customer is different. Some dislike social media, some dislike emails, some dislike phone calls, some dislike YouTube. So on, and so forth. I’ll end it there. Carry on! You're missing the point. Social media is a NON-delivery medium for products of a technical nature. It doesn't deliver the information. Anything posted doesn't last long enough to be effective. And people who make up the real market are far too busy and involved with other things to waste time wading through the morass that is social media.
How would I "hear" about a web page update? When I Google their site I should get info - from the get go. If I have to wait for an update it's probably too late. A serious company selling product will have the important info up on their website FIRST, long before engaging in any social media tomfoolery. TYhe website is the core of their online presence. Without an informative website everything else is so much hot air.
Are you interested in the rank amateur "what's the cheapest substitute for an SM57?" crowd or are you interested in real customers with money to spend?
An no, I do not consider forums like this to be "social media". Being "social" isn't really the point here, exchange of useful information is. The difference is obvious in the way the two things are set up to treat information.
If this was social media we'd be drowning in cat pictures and photos of people's lunch/dinner.
Social media is where the doggies gather to sniff butts. Forums are where (hopefully) adult humans gather to exchange useful information.
If I go to a company's own website, I EXPECT TO FIND USEFUL INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS. Is that so hard to grasp?
If I go to the site of pretty much any PROFESSIONAL audio manufacturer like JBL, API, Neumann, AKG, Latch Lake, Heiserman, Stam, Lewitt, CAPI, etc. I will find hard info about their products. I go to Doozenblatt and I get a few pretty pictures, a few testimonials from users, but ZIP for real info. Frankly, I don't give a damn if Doozenblatt has a rip of the Porsche logo on the front panel of their preamp. I'm interested in the basic performance. I'd just as soon have a black front panel with plain white lettering of the functions. In fact I'm a bit insulted that they would think that I or anybody else would buy their product because they have a quasi-Porsche logo. Who the hell are they trying to kid?
The fact that they do not supply even the most basic techical info is an absolute guarantee that I will not take them seriously. They obviously do not have their sh!t together as a real company.
Frankly, I'm rather shocked that anybody with such an established history in pro audio sales would even for a moment think of defending such anti-professional, amateurish marketing practices.
Seriously, this is a company that has already failed once - why would they think that anybody would take a risk on their stuff with zero actual information?
I'm tired of talking about this. If Katzenkopf wants to fail again that's their business. I'm not sending them any money.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 24, 2019 21:23:30 GMT -6
Interesting discussion regarding social media...I’ve been getting pretty deep into social media marketing with my wife (relating to a separate non-musical business venture), and yes FB/instagram marketing can definitely payoff with real customers spending real money, it has for us. The thing is, it’s absolutely NOT free...at the very least it takes tons of time (which in my estimation is more value than money) but really to do it right you have to pay for ads, boosted posts and really, you need to spend money to have someone who specializes in social media marketing either consult for you or run your campaign. The way most people do it (posting some pics and updates) is largely ineffective. Sure, there are exceptions but for the most part simple posts, pics or updates do little more than keep you top-of-mind to your customers. You need to track your engagement, analytics, posting schedule, content etc etc...And it’s absolutely not a substitute for other marketing, like a real website, word of mouth, Yelp, google reviews, google search result optimization etc. Anyone ignoring these things is simply doing it wrong, as can be demonstrated here in RGO with people who don’t follow FB etc. Nownsome small companies can get away with only posting to FB, because they have a loyal customer base already and have to ambitions to grow beyond where they are. However, for the large majority of companies you need a cohesive marketing strategies that covers everything (websites, social media, email, direct sales campaigns etc). In a lot of ways FB and Instagram are just ways to target your key demographics and push them to your actual website where you can have real/meaningful content. But any company that doesn’t care about those of us that aren’t on FB is making a huge blunder. And anyone thinking that social media marketing is free and easy hasn’t actually done it, at least not successfully. Apologies for typos, I’ll edit for grammar later
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Post by chessparov on Aug 25, 2019 1:27:25 GMT -6
Don't worry guys, I've got the solution!
Adam and John E. should "team up" and use the most effective marketing known to Man... (MIDI drumroll please)
Why it's the all new Time Life series of Real Gear TV Commercials!! (Adam & John will require matching SSL sweaters BTW)
Or would "Top Brass" be a better concept? Either way, with Adam connecting with all that Cyber-Street Cred and John's straight talkn' Baby Boom'n approach.... Shoot, this could be one heck of a Reality sitcom! Chris
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 25, 2019 5:03:56 GMT -6
Don't worry guys, I've got the solution! Adam and John E. should "team up" and use the most effective marketing known to Man... (MIDI drumroll please) Why it's the all new Time Life series of Real Gear TV Commercials!! (Adam & John will require matching SSL sweaters BTW) Or would "Top Brass" be a better concept? Either way, with Adam connecting with all that Cyber-Street Cred and John's straight talkn' Baby Boom'n approach.... Shoot, this could be one heck of a Reality sitcom! Chris Depends how much I’m getting paid, because i’d likely go insane working with him.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 25, 2019 8:48:19 GMT -6
I found out about the CAPI DI and mic blend boxes from Instagram. Went to their website and they have all the pertinent info on it.
There is room for both ways John. Jeff has a great informational website and puts up cool stuff on face page and insta.
Just because Dizengoff’s webpage isn’t great doesn’t automatically discredit any and all use of social media marketing.
Just try to look through the lens of somebody that’s never seen a tape machine, doesn’t care about tape machines, and wouldn’t want a console of any type in their room. You aren’t exactly the prime candidate they are trying to reach. I get that it can be frustrating, but I think we al pretty much get your point.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 25, 2019 9:27:31 GMT -6
You guys realize that Dizengoff doesn't even have products in production yet right?
From what I can tell, they've given up on their old products, closed the company completely for a while, and are looking to launch some new 500 series products that are yet to be in production. They probably don't have specs or info posted on their website yet because they're still in the prototype stage.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 25, 2019 12:11:12 GMT -6
You guys realize that Dizengoff doesn't even have products in production yet right? From what I can tell, they've given up on their old products, closed the company completely for a while, and are looking to launch some new 500 series products that are yet to be in production. They probably don't have specs or info posted on their website yet because they're still in the prototype stage. All true, but it’s pronounced Doozenblatt (doo-zen-blat).
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Post by chessparov on Aug 25, 2019 13:11:10 GMT -6
Don't worry guys, I've got the solution! Adam and John E. should "team up" and use the most effective marketing known to Man... (MIDI drumroll please) Why it's the all new Time Life series of Real Gear TV Commercials!! (Adam & John will require matching SSL sweaters BTW) Or would "Top Brass" be a better concept? Either way, with Adam connecting with all that Cyber-Street Cred and John's straight talkn' Baby Boom'n approach.... Shoot, this could be one heck of a Reality sitcom! Chris Depends how much I’m getting paid, because i’d likely go insane working with him. And thus, the "Split Screen" was begat. And God saw it was good!
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 25, 2019 18:49:06 GMT -6
My only issue with the Dizengoff products I have tried is Matt is too good of a designer.
Or I mean to say....when I was looking at the REDD style preamp, and their compressor I was hoping and expecting for a little more vintage vibe and dirt. But the steel transformers and other decisions he made gave it a pretty hi-fi bright sound that actually turned me off in a way.
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Post by Ward on Aug 26, 2019 7:45:15 GMT -6
My only issue with the Dizengoff products I have tried is Matt is too good of a designer. Or I mean to say....when I was looking at the REDD style preamp, and their compressor I was hoping and expecting for a little more vintage vibe and dirt. But the steel transformers and other decisions he made gave it a pretty hi-fi bright sound that actually turned me off in a way. You found the D4 too clean? Really . . . well, I found it fantastic for adding grit to a U87 and Samar Audio's VL37 ribbon mics. Just goes to show we can all hear things differently.
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 26, 2019 8:03:44 GMT -6
My only issue with the Dizengoff products I have tried is Matt is too good of a designer. Or I mean to say....when I was looking at the REDD style preamp, and their compressor I was hoping and expecting for a little more vintage vibe and dirt. But the steel transformers and other decisions he made gave it a pretty hi-fi bright sound that actually turned me off in a way. You found the D4 too clean? Really . . . well, I found it fantastic for adding grit to a U87 and Samar Audio's VL37 ribbon mics. Just goes to show we can all hear things differently. I've had someone else say the same thing. I could be wrong....to be honest this was quite a while ago, and before I had alot of my other gear and decent monitoring. I just remembered at the time I was lusting for a vintage tube sounding preamp. Something like a Collins 212Y or the Ampex MX-10 fit the bill instead.
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Post by M57 on Aug 26, 2019 8:06:25 GMT -6
My only issue with the Dizengoff products I have tried is Matt is too good of a designer. Or I mean to say....when I was looking at the REDD style preamp, and their compressor I was hoping and expecting for a little more vintage vibe and dirt. But the steel transformers and other decisions he made gave it a pretty hi-fi bright sound that actually turned me off in a way. Go figure. My D4's were distortion boxes if you pushed them at all. I just couldn't handle all that mojo so I sold them.
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Post by Ward on Aug 26, 2019 8:06:51 GMT -6
You found the D4 too clean? Really . . . well, I found it fantastic for adding grit to a U87 and Samar Audio's VL37 ribbon mics. Just goes to show we can all hear things differently. I've had someone else say the same thing. I could be wrong....to be honest this was quite a while ago, and before I had alot of my other gear and decent monitoring. I just remembered at the time I was lusting for a vintage tube sounding preamp. Something like a Collins 212Y or the Ampex MX-10 fit the bill instead. Hmmm . . . I bought one of the last ones Front End Audio were selling off. Maybe the latter day ones were better and there were some circuit or transformer changes? That could make a big difference!
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 26, 2019 8:15:48 GMT -6
My only issue with the Dizengoff products I have tried is Matt is too good of a designer. Or I mean to say....when I was looking at the REDD style preamp, and their compressor I was hoping and expecting for a little more vintage vibe and dirt. But the steel transformers and other decisions he made gave it a pretty hi-fi bright sound that actually turned me off in a way. Go figure. My D4's were distortion boxes if you pushed them at all. I just couldn't handle all that mojo so I sold them. I had the same exact experience with those. I was thinking, why is there absolutely no headroom in this device? I would never want to deploy something like that in a session, unless I wanted a hairy sound.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 26, 2019 8:16:19 GMT -6
You found the D4 too clean? Really . . . well, I found it fantastic for adding grit to a U87 and Samar Audio's VL37 ribbon mics. Just goes to show we can all hear things differently. I just remembered at the time I was lusting for a vintage tube sounding preamp. Something like a Collins 212Y or the Ampex MX-10 fit the bill instead. Go figure. My D4's were distortion boxes if you pushed them at all. I just couldn't handle all that mojo so I sold them. Difference is hard distortion versus soft distortion, similar to compression ratio. A REDD47 is more of a clipper, and not like a Fender Deluxe at all. If you want non-obvious grunge fattening, a REDD47 circuit is not the path, the D2(?) (RCA BA-2) is. And vice versa. A BA-2 can show flatlined waveforms and not sound distorted, just fat and thick. A Gates SA-70 / Coil CA-70 is in between, closer to the RCA. MX-10 or 212Y also in the in-between camp.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 26, 2019 8:22:57 GMT -6
Go figure. My D4's were distortion boxes if you pushed them at all. I just couldn't handle all that mojo so I sold them. I had the same exact experience with those. I was thinking, why is there absolutely no headroom in this device? I would never want to deploy something like that in a session, unless I wanted a hairy sound. Because they are 'exact' recreations, and they don't have any headroom relative to modern thinking. They aren't meant to be used as standalone preamps driving high level AD inputs, they are rated at +6dBm with +14dBm being gross distortion. Many old circuits like this require an adjustment to the working methods used at the time, and if you are unwilling to explore that, they aren't for you. The easy answer is print much lower than you normally would, and add gain afterwards. Or use compressor make up gain if you are tracking with it. Same old thing: gain staging.
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 26, 2019 8:30:45 GMT -6
I've had someone else say the same thing. I could be wrong....to be honest this was quite a while ago, and before I had alot of my other gear and decent monitoring. I just remembered at the time I was lusting for a vintage tube sounding preamp. Something like a Collins 212Y or the Ampex MX-10 fit the bill instead. Hmmm . . . I bought one of the last ones Front End Audio were selling off. Maybe the latter day ones were better and there were some circuit or transformer changes? That could make a big difference! I had one of the first ones off the line. Straight from Dizengoff. I remember he mentioned something about changing the transformers out for me so maybe the design was still being finalized. I never did get them changed out..... At this point pretty happy with my Ampex MX-10, Colins 212Y then the Electric&Company stuff rocks. 6072 with UTCs and his Stereo 6 with vintage Ampex Transformers. My 'distortion boxes' are 2 Military grade Viewlex preamps meant for projectors loaded with original RCA tubes. (i think also sold as western electric and others) Talk about low headroom. But wow, mic up a drum kit with a single dynamic in the right spot....eq some mids out, and theres an awesome drum sound!
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