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Post by Guitar on Jun 21, 2022 14:54:00 GMT -6
I use Sonarworks on everything. My mixes began to translate very well after I started using it. Well worth the money IMO. I had some issues with SoundID at first but it seems pretty well sorted out. I'm running Windows 11, which was part of the problem. I haven't tried any of the other options but I'm satisfied with SoundID. Being able to use it systemwide is HUGE for me when working with video editors and Acon Acoustica.
Wow! Didn't know this was functional on Win 11 until your post. Using it right now! Very cool.
I have ARC also, but I haven't even tried it yet, Sonarworks, uhmmmm, works, very well. I really like it and rely on it.
And yes, I have really nice monitors, and related equipment. Nonetheless. I use it, and it improves the situation, and gives a lot of control.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 18, 2022 6:02:30 GMT -6
Sounds a bit lazy to me , try that in metal where every single track has pretty much the same arrangement. That's when you need engineering skill.. Engineering skill and rewriting the entire song for the band. The band better have a sick rhythm section… These days, the whole band (other than the vocal,) more often than not, IS a rhythm section. In uh, popular, modern guitar/bass/drum music. Less and less lead lines, and even less than that, improvisation of any kind. Smooth Jazz is what killed Free Jazz. I just watched this cool doc. FIRE MUSIC and the old players were lamenting on this. One of them was describing some typical modern music and said it was "washing machine music," because it just goes round, round, and round and that's about it.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 17, 2022 13:33:53 GMT -6
I tell artists all the time, "A great mix starts with the arrangement." Sounds a bit lazy to me , try that in metal where every single track has pretty much the same arrangement. That's when you need engineering skill.. Maybe a good idea would be to think of a better, more original metal arrangement? Unless it's the good old thing that always seems to satisfy, I guess. Mixing punk and metal is very challenging (in my experience!)
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 15:01:30 GMT -6
jmoose I encounter this all the time in local, physical conversations. Countless times. Lots of serious musicians I know, lots of amateurs who think they're serious, lots of recording and so on. The level of technical not-knowing-how is extraordinary! Some people might know "enough to be dangerous," or even "enough to do some really cool recordings, can you help me get these across the finish line, or just tell me if you like them." But it's mostly like you say: music first, recording some distance after that. This manifests frequently in terms of confusion, misunderstanding, even "telling you what," sometimes, that's a funny one to listen to. For me, the "know-it-all, be precise-specific," anyway. Most of these people (not all!) on the other hand have great musical ideas, worth being recorded, and that's a huge deal. You might find the reverse "syndrome" in recording-obsessives, occasionally. Over-emphasis on technique and lack of musical ideation. You might find that some self-professed "audio experts" are insufferable assholes, the "that guy" sound guy nightmares of the world that every female musician and most male musicians have encountered multiple times, that actually instill in some people a "fear" of recording! Some of these people who you might sometimes assume know "less" than you, if you pay attention, can expose you to new ideas, new ways of working! Some of these people might be literally impossible to work with, not knowing how to finish anything under any circumstances, saying they want things finished, and doing literally everything they can to destroy this from occurring, or doing nothing at all. So I think we can all learn from each other, and it's good to be understanding of misunderstanding, and answer it plainly without judgement. Or sometimes just to let things sliiiiide, live to fight another day. I think it's well understood that "making music with people" can be a huge hassle in terms of "personality management" or whatever you want to call it, and this can go both ways, of course, so try to be wise and try to choose who you work with wisely, when possible! And try to enjoy the people you're working with, otherwise what's the point? In my mind? The high sample rate thing is a hangup, a red-herring. No leading, no following. A non-issue. Just some desire to control the situation, to be the one who is in control.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 13:10:51 GMT -6
The Waves sale is never over, lol!
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 12:30:09 GMT -6
I'm glad Shadow found his way, making cool music, putting in the hours and finding what works for him. A lot of that was finding out what doesn't work for him, and he has freedom from that, through lived experience. This thread "was" about "summing mixers" but has apparently broadened to the entire workflow. I'm glad Greg found his way as well, and everyone else who has commented on their way. I'm glad Svart is still working, despite witnessing someone with an easy gift, being humble enough to continue and deepen the practice, in a selfless way. It's all really wonderful, except for when it's not, and there's really no difference between the two. Ah, the oneness in duality. I often feel that the greatest meaningfulness in living is reconciling opposites. Well it certainly keeps you from attaching to one extreme view or the other! All things are equally valid or invalid, they just "are." They are no things. But some nothing is aware of them.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 11:41:53 GMT -6
I'm glad Shadow found his way, making cool music, putting in the hours and finding what works for him. A lot of that was finding out what doesn't work for him, and he has freedom from that, through lived experience. This thread "was" about "summing mixers" but has apparently broadened to the entire workflow.
I'm glad Greg found his way as well, and everyone else who has commented on their way.
I'm glad Svart is still working, despite witnessing someone with an easy gift, being humble enough to continue and deepen the practice, in a selfless way.
It's all really wonderful, except for when it's not, and there's really no difference between the two.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 11:09:03 GMT -6
Upsampling... there are no nothing bits, is what I realize. Any smaller bit, any smaller "sample" must still be placed in the "right" place. Inaudible silence is actually a perfection, that is hard for a machine to interpolate on its own, based on previous measurement (recordings.) Any deviation from inaudible perfect silence results in measurable, or hearable noise. Whether upsampling, or down sampling. You can hear the algorithm. Or sometimes the algorithm is so good it can reduce noise from other compontents!
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 10:16:53 GMT -6
Wow, svart , really nice! Definitely mathy but not too mathy. This link gets really mathy but it's fascinating, in a way: www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/quantization-step-sizeSection 4.2.2 is what I read. I like their little graph of quantization error, this funny Egyptian looking little curve. They describe it as a white noise with no mean, dependent both on bit depth and sample rate, in a way I don't fully grasp (and might not need to.) The "stair steps" doomsday analog cult were right, in a way. No, we don't play back stair steps. But yes, we hear the white noise of their residue.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2022 5:28:05 GMT -6
So, the consensus is that it's a non-issue? It's starting to drift into 48 vs 96 territory, but I guess I'm more interested in any technical issues with 48 upsampled to 96? I plan on running these drum tracks through outboard, so there's going to be more conversion trips through my Aurora (n). Then again through the drum buss and master buss. If you want it to be "absolutely perfect" in techincal terms, some SRC algorithms are cleaner than others. Here's a handy reference: src.infinitewave.ca/Altough, I wonder, if downsampling is "dirtier" (due to filtering,) than upsampling, which in my mind just adds a bunch of "nothing bits" above the previous cutoff frequency. Maybe @tomegatherion would know.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 22:15:45 GMT -6
Wow, smashlord did jmoose call you? Eerie coincidence if not.
Rhetorical question: if one was "requested" or "verbally coerced" into delivering 96 KHz files... Why not just upsample your own shit with RX, foobar2000, r8brain, dB Power Amp or whatever and send them the exact thing they're asking for?
Would anyone even notice? Even blink an ear? Would anyone "conference call you with their friends" to be "concerned" about sound quality?
Something to think about.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 22:04:21 GMT -6
I really don't fully know if running a system at -10db or at +4 db (balanced) should make any difference. The thing I've noticed is all the mixes I did on balanced systems had more weight. For Monkeyxx , by "weight" I mean a fuller, stronger, tighter, bigger, cleaner bass. The final volume level could be the same, but the mix done on a balanced board had more muscle and impact. That's what I wish I could get ITB, but haven't. My hope is the Dangerous Music 2 Bus+ might give me some of the weight of a console, (if I can ever afford one). ITB tip, the HG2 Black Box plug-in gave me about 20-30 % of that weight which is now on every ITB mix I do. Cool! Thanks for elaborating. Thanks to ShadowK too I love technical elaboration! I think in balanced inputs/outputs (other than "cheating" with resistor pseudo-balancing) you just have "more stuff." the stuff Shadow was talking about. In the old days this was transformers on every in and out. In modern days, it's probably op amps, which also have a sound. But a Mackie, I have to say, is also a "balanced system" or "balanced board," as well as a Behringer. -10 dBV vs +4 dBV is not technically "balancing" either, it's just two different signal amplitude standards for ideal operating levels. Balancing means an identical dual path to cancel environmental noise, such as from an XLR cable or a balanced TRS cable. It doesn't techincally imply an operating level. For example, a microphone is balanced and has a very small typical signal strength, somewhere around -60 dBV or -40 dBV... nonetheless, "balanced." And on the other end of the scale, AC mains power can be balanced as well. That's a lot of juice. Ohhhhhhmmmmmm. But typically, I'd tend to see what you're saying there. "High voltage" sounds "big." Take any guitar or bass amp as a really easy example of this. Even a guitar pedal like an OCD or something. Run it at 9V, again at 18V, and listen to the "bigness." It's a thing. I agree. I love big heavy high powered stuff in general.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 16:33:53 GMT -6
I've never used a summing mixer but for years I used a console to "sum" through. It was the best music I ever made sonically. I have a theory on that. First, I think there's no way to mimic cross talk in a center section digitally. Or maybe there is but I haven't heard it. It's something that when you hear it and all the harmonics it creates, it just makes you feel the music down to the bone. Hard to explain. Second, during that time I thought about making music 24/7 and was way more dedicated to the craft. Made a little jingle here and there and was happy doing it. So maybe that was the secret sauce. But I doubt it. I still know what I knew then and I can't get to the same place with digital. Some people can, I can't. You're not the only one but there's a vast difference between sound, intent and target. Also it's all definitively set by the studio itself, what I mean is I've changed my studio drastically once every 5 - 10 years and they all produced completely different results. The tricky bit is defining what's "better"..With ITB mixes being so common over the past thirty years near enough one's correlation of subjective improvement may or may not reach to the masses. I've mentioned before that some listeners used to modern production thought that Fleetwood Mac or the Eagles etc. sounded weird and that a more focussed or pronounced ITB mix is the norm. Although that's stereotyping.. ITB isn't always a strong centred projection neither is OTB always wide / deep and or any collection of buzz words. I've had some desks that provided absolutely nothing over a typical interface and ITB EQ, it really does depend on what specific components you use. So there’s two issues, the end goal and the chain. As I’m hitting nearly 40 pieces of outboard specifically chosen for their influence on a track, meaning they’re not utility items that give pause for thought over differences between ITB / OTB it’s becoming increasingly difficult to ever replicate that chain digitally. In fact I’d never bother to try, some of it hasn't been emulated digitally and others behave differently based upon other equipment feeding them. If I was just using channel strip replication (like from an SSL) then there would be a simple comparison but overall the setup is too complex to mimic. Whilst it’s primarily for my own satisfaction one thing is very apparent, it’s very easy to get where I need to go. TLDR version, certain analog setups for me sound wildly different, some don’t and I’ve heard quite a bit in-between. There’s way too many variables to really know including the day, your ears on said day, the performance, the slight breeze coming from the west etc. compiled with every other difference you make to a chain. The only thing I truly know is my primarily OTB setup sounds absolutely nothing like any other ITB setup I’ve ever used for better or worse.
But you're summing in the box, aren't you? And using some plugins? I like your and cowboy's posts a lot, either way. In the box / Analog / Digital / hybrid / Out of the Box descriptions are becoming increasingly meaningless as specific terminology. Even engineers can't keep them straight. Don't know why but I've always been sort of a purist about "definitive meaning." It's fun at parties, let me tell you (for me, only.)
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 16:20:44 GMT -6
In the scheme of making a great recording, performance is #3 (after composition and arrangement) and the things only cats and dogs can hear is #10983409834098340938403984, so I'd go with the player you like and compromise on the sample rate. The dogs and cats I hang around love music performance :-D Mainly, the dogs. It's a good representation of how to enjoy music.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 15:20:17 GMT -6
I've never used a summing mixer but for years I used a console to "sum" through. It was the best music I ever made sonically. I have a theory on that. First, I think there's no way to mimic cross talk in a center section digitally. Or maybe there is but I haven't heard it. It's something that when you hear it and all the harmonics it creates, it just makes you feel the music down to the bone. Hard to explain. Second, during that time I thought about making music 24/7 and was way more dedicated to the craft. Made a little jingle here and there and was happy doing it. So maybe that was the secret sauce. But I doubt it. I still know what I knew then and I can't get to the same place with digital. Some people can, I can't. What changed? Why did you give it up?
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 14:35:34 GMT -6
I'd rank performance greater than those, but hey, we're all just ear holes.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 12:34:45 GMT -6
So is Fabrice done at Slate? Is he out? Slate used to talk about how the Eiosis DeEsser was the best on the planet, how you would never need another ever again, etc., etc., etc. Yet here he is releasing another DeEsser. Hmmm. They’re running out of shit to emulate. Brainworx is doing made up AMEK gear. The Fuse Tascam 688 channel strip happened and then Ik had to get in on it with bad convolution plugs. Alesis 3630 plug from waves coming with noise included when? SSL now sells hardware to control the emulation of the hardware… SSL is the sound of hits. SSL was used by. Alesis 3630 is French House Fame. Tascam was used by. AMEK is a bunch of bullshit nobody can even remember. You can be famous, too, Dan! Just hand over the money, and the rest will take care of itself. :-D
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 12:31:01 GMT -6
Just a mention. Waves Sibilance is really good. John has immaculate taste. Sibilance is really nice, has "character" whatever the hell that means, I use it all the time on my vocals. The controls are a bit hard to grok but eventually you can almost grasp what the hell they are actually doing. I think this one is actually an "ess re-synthesizer" whatever that means, not just an, eh, quick fader. For a "pure and clean" no-trace, no-event de-esser the free Techivation De-Esser is one of the best I've heard. Totally free, and it actually works. They try to sell you an expensive "upgrade" with features not related to essing. kind of insane. But you can support them. In mastering, non-vocal sources, it could be any number of alternate plugins, this answer, this post, is voice-centric (Greg Wells can eat a black banana.)
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 11:36:42 GMT -6
I have been recording at 48KHz for years.... LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 11:19:55 GMT -6
I used one of these for an operatic vocal session once. It was really robust sounding on my voice. Really nice. I could easily record a whole album just using one of these. Just not a live album, LOL!!!!!! ;-D
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 11:13:26 GMT -6
Upsample him and be done. It’s not going to affect sales What is this “sales” you speak of? A series of increasingly minor transactions, culminating in non-listening, no-payment, no-interest and no-memory.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2022 7:24:43 GMT -6
Listen to the music, the performance, the emotion. Upsample. Continue mixing. I just had to do the same thing on the last thing I mixed. There's no way any of us will ever get everyone in the world on board with the level of technical detail we pursue in forum/audio/whatever world. There's nothing wrong with either approach. A lot of the job is to "make it work."
Also I doubt the fact that it was recorded at 48KHz and upsampled to 96KHz will really be a "defect" of any kind. And I agree with the previous answers.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 14, 2022 22:00:13 GMT -6
stereo
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Post by Guitar on Jun 14, 2022 17:46:07 GMT -6
I don't think they want us to know what it is either ;-) In the transducer family, it has to be "something," if you know what I mean. Microphone, piezo crystal, magnetic pickup, etc. Likely one of the first two, but who can say, (not me, apparently.)
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Post by Guitar on Jun 14, 2022 17:10:50 GMT -6
I just got a Cole Clark acoustic for live use. Just wow .... it is THE best plugged in acoustic guitar sound I have ever heard. Sounds almost the same as my Martin D18 miced up! It used three different pick ups for it's pick up system (piezzo, face sensor and internal mic) the dynamics are incredible, beautifully built from Australian native woods and even has a plec'd set up so it plays like a dream out of the box so to speak. Highly recommended - I'm blown away with this new Cole Clark electro-acoustic. Can you tell me what a "face sensor" is? Would it recognize me and does it know my home address and various data? LOL!
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