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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 21:03:52 GMT -6
Heard good things about Arc and Dirac, Sonarworks has a bit of a mixed rep according to what I've read. Wouldn't mind something a bit simpler than REW.. Opinions?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 19, 2022 21:36:38 GMT -6
Personal experience only - Sonarworks does a pretty good job for me in my makeshift room. It’s a large rectangle with a vaulted ceiling, my desk is in a good spot, lots of bass trapping, cloud, 703 absorb panels, etc etc. It did a great job of helping out some low frequency oddities.
I can see it not working so well if you’re in a room that isn’t symmetrical or has oddly placed windows or reflection points though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 21:43:55 GMT -6
Personal experience only - Sonarworks does a pretty good job for me in my makeshift room. It’s a large rectangle with a vaulted ceiling, my desk is in a good spot, lots of bass trapping, cloud, 703 absorb panels, etc etc. It did a great job of helping out some low frequency oddities. I can see it not working so well if you’re in a room that isn’t symmetrical or has oddly placed windows or reflection points though. Hmm interesting, I like the fact that you can run Sonarworks system wide but a few bits from here concerned me.
"Conclusion: All in all, this was quite an interesting little project for me. My takeaway is that there are definitely some really good options on the market for DRC - out of these three my preference would be:
Dirac Live 3 - sounds the best to me and offers most flexible target curve config. Natural sounding and with reasonable target configs I thought it was not destructive in any way. Not cheap, though.
IK Multimedia ARC system 3 - in my opinion it can be configured to sound close to Dirac, but required a bit more fiddling. It may not be able to satisfy every requirement as far as target curves go though - this is my main gripe with it. However it is quite a cheaper option than the other two.
Sonarworks Reference 4 Studio edition - I couldn't make myself agree with this one Sure, there are some nice features there (plus great systemwide version and some extensive headphone EQ options) so I'm sure it works great for many - but lack of filter sharpness, true correction range limiting and detailed target curve editing are for now deal-breakers for me."
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 20, 2022 3:57:27 GMT -6
I didn’t get that scientific with it. I honestly don’t have the patience for that and would much rather just focus on the music. I did the demo for the headphones and thought it was great, then purchased it with the microphone, shot my room, it was super easy and took like 10 mins.
My reaction?
Wow it sounds better in the bottom. Translates better. That’s a keeper for me haha.
Like I said I don’t have time to sit and mull this stuff over. If it works it works and I use it and move on.
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Post by nick8801 on Jun 20, 2022 4:20:30 GMT -6
Same here. For me, the trick with Sonarworks is to let it do it’s thing and then try and forget about it. It’s gonna sound different at first, but my music translates well!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 4:53:38 GMT -6
Like I said I don’t have time to sit and mull this stuff over. If it works it works and I use it and move on. I'd like to do a bit of research before something starts messing around with my $6K monitors and the $7K's worth of room treatment. I spent a lot of time making sure the room and said monitors were up to scratch so it's not going to harm to spend a couple of hours reviewing options. Sorta strange that we put so much effort into the grandiose parts but sail past putting in the effort for the most important bits.
Whatever works, YMMV and all that but I'm going to do a bit of due diligence.
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 20, 2022 5:35:09 GMT -6
We use a MiniDSP DDRC-88D with Dirac using Apogee/Lavry converters. Mixes translate better now. I like using the dedicated digital MiniDSP box instead of a plugin on a master fader. I have the MiniDSP setup between my monitor controller and monitors, so anything that feeds the input of the monitor controller runs through it, and I don't need Pro Tools or HOFA open.
It has a bit of latency, so sometimes if I'm editing tight fast drums or recording an instrument in the control room using the monitors, I'll bypass Dirac.
I'd say if your mixes translate well already, then you don't need it. I had issues and Dirac helped that.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 20, 2022 5:35:46 GMT -6
I had Sonarworks. Thought it was great. Systemwide never worked right for me. I had the Sonarworks tech help take over my computer several times to try and figure it out. They gave up.
Then I tried Dirac. More flexible options. I thought it sounded more open up on the top end. I was A/B’ing the two and it was only after hearing Dirac that I noticed SW sounded a little phasey on the top end. I think Dirac had a little more definition on the bottom.
But, maybe that difference can be attributed to a difference in reference mic positioning? I dunno.
I sold SW and moved on with Dirac. I use an app called Audio Hijack (recommended by Dirac) to replace the functions of Systemwide. Works just fine every time.
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Post by tasteliketape on Jun 20, 2022 6:39:41 GMT -6
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Post by yewtreemagic on Jun 20, 2022 11:19:32 GMT -6
I've used Sonarworks Reference 4 for years now, first of all with headphones, which made both my Sennheiser HD650 and AKG K712 Pro's sound a lot more similar to both each other and my tiny ATC loudspekers (all replayed via Lavry DA10 converters).
Then I bought the official and individually calibrated Sonarworks test mic and tested my loudspeakers/acoustics too. I got a significant improvement in both stereo imaging and tonal balance, and was well pleased. I've made various tweaks to my acoustic treatment and electronics over the last couple of years, and each time do a re-run with the calibrated mic to take account of these changes.
My only reservation is with the Sonarworks filter options. Zero Latency is of course perfect during tracking (when you can largely ignore its phase variations), while Linear Phase provides great top-end detail but at the expense of a less solid bass end. Meanwhile, the Mixed option (as its name implies) has a slightly less detailed top end, but a more solid bass end. I've never been able to decide which I prefer, and even yesterday decided to switch back from Linear Phase to Mixed for mixdowns.
Sonarworks' newer SoundID Reference (effectively Reference v5) had some compatibility issues on initial release, but I'm still tempted to upgrade because of various reports of a more detailed sound (despite denials from Sonarworks that it 'should' sound any different from Reference 4.
So, overall a happy bunny, but with a few reservations).
Martin
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Post by ml on Jun 20, 2022 15:11:51 GMT -6
I've used Sonarworks Reference 4 for years now, first of all with headphones, which made both my Sennheiser HD650 and AKG K712 Pro's sound a lot more similar to both each other and my tiny ATC loudspekers (all replayed via Lavry DA10 converters). Then I bought the official and individually calibrated Sonarworks test mic and tested my loudspeakers/acoustics too. I got a significant improvement in both stereo imaging and tonal balance, and was well pleased. I've made various tweaks to my acoustic treatment and electronics over the last couple of years, and each time do a re-run with the calibrated mic to take account of these changes. My only reservation is with the Sonarworks filter options. Zero Latency is of course perfect during tracking (when you can largely ignore its phase variations), while Linear Phase provides great top-end detail but at the expense of a less solid bass end. Meanwhile, the Mixed option (as its name implies) has a slightly less detailed top end, but a more solid bass end. I've never been able to decide which I prefer, and even yesterday decided to switch back from Linear Phase to Mixed for mixdowns. Sonarworks' newer SoundID Reference (effectively Reference v5) had some compatibility issues on initial release, but I'm still tempted to upgrade because of various reports of a more detailed sound (despite denials from Sonarworks that it 'should' sound any different from Reference 4. So, overall a happy bunny, but with a few reservations). Martin I recently upgraded from reference 4 to Sound ID and I think the ability to adjust the filters is totally worth the upgrade. I have mine only correcting the low end and I have the top end untouched.
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Post by christopher on Jun 20, 2022 18:38:54 GMT -6
I have ARC on the NS10’s. I only use it for a few minutes and turn it off.
Extends them to -6dB @ 40Hz and 18kHz (one actually is -5@20Hz!). The interesting thing is it’s a pretty mellow curve, like a wide 7 band EQ; not 31 band.
I’d rather have a hifi and sub setup with a rack EQ to flip to honestly. But it’s also nice to know what a computer thinks flat is.
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Post by mcirish on Jun 21, 2022 8:37:28 GMT -6
I use Sonarworks on everything. My mixes began to translate very well after I started using it. Well worth the money IMO. I had some issues with SoundID at first but it seems pretty well sorted out. I'm running Windows 11, which was part of the problem. I haven't tried any of the other options but I'm satisfied with SoundID. Being able to use it systemwide is HUGE for me when working with video editors and Acon Acoustica.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2022 10:25:32 GMT -6
I have ARC on the NS10’s. I only use it for a few minutes and turn it off. Extends them to -6dB @ 40Hz and 18kHz (one actually is -5@20Hz!). The interesting thing is it’s a pretty mellow curve, like a wide 7 band EQ; not 31 band. I’d rather have a hifi and sub setup with a rack EQ to flip to honestly. But it’s also nice to know what a computer thinks flat is. The minimal broader filters makes sense, basically if you try to micro manage everything you end up with filters fighting filters and more problems. One biggie you will see is someone or a program place a boost and some phase alignment right at that -3 point in the middle of a crossover and you end up with this really strange phase response because you know have 3 filters in the same range.
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Post by christopher on Jun 21, 2022 14:31:36 GMT -6
Eric, that’s a really good point I never thought of. I’ll try to post a pic. Original sweep is green. They let you select the NS10 avatar, maybe the filters adjust to crossover areas? ibb.co/LgZwd3y
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Post by Guitar on Jun 21, 2022 14:54:00 GMT -6
I use Sonarworks on everything. My mixes began to translate very well after I started using it. Well worth the money IMO. I had some issues with SoundID at first but it seems pretty well sorted out. I'm running Windows 11, which was part of the problem. I haven't tried any of the other options but I'm satisfied with SoundID. Being able to use it systemwide is HUGE for me when working with video editors and Acon Acoustica.
Wow! Didn't know this was functional on Win 11 until your post. Using it right now! Very cool.
I have ARC also, but I haven't even tried it yet, Sonarworks, uhmmmm, works, very well. I really like it and rely on it.
And yes, I have really nice monitors, and related equipment. Nonetheless. I use it, and it improves the situation, and gives a lot of control.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2022 16:30:31 GMT -6
Eric, that’s a really good point I never thought of. I’ll try to post a pic. Original sweep is green. They let you select the NS10 avatar, maybe the filters adjust to crossover areas? ibb.co/LgZwd3yI waisted 2 days last month working on a PA where the guy had active Tops and subs with DSP, then a DBX drive rack and then what ever the alignment program in the X32 is called. Talk about strange phase issues. Stripped it down and now it’s listenable.
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