Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 16:21:47 GMT -6
Maybe a regional argument has to be made. In my neck of the woods (not one of the few major music cities left), the commercial studios that are actually purely funded by music are catering more for the indie and electronic musos with interesting musical equipment, a good room and lower mid level consoles and tape - ie Studer consoles and Tasam / Otari tape.
Tape seems very popular.. and also having a history with their local muso community.
The bigger ones with Neve's and SSL's locally have closed or are funded by other means and run at a loss. The few i have visited in more recent times in a major musical city are partly funded by other means i.e. established business owner, 70's / 80's musical royalty cash, famous muso father etc. The rent, business rates, insurance, living cost, overheads etc.. are not purely paid from daily studio rates for the major city owners i have spoken with. It's maybe different in other major cities.. Doesn't really answer the OP's question though, just my recent experiences.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Aug 30, 2018 16:22:18 GMT -6
I had a small fantasy of clearing my debt by sacrificing my main rig, and just using my JBL LSR305 and the Clarett that's in the other room, and plugins and getting on with it.
In the end though, it's worth a little bit of expense to have this stuff on the ready. Makes working more fun and fulfilling. So I'm glad I had (and rejected) that fantasy. I think a lot of the cross talk in this thread is about this topic of elegance and extravagance. People are willing to pay for that.
However I will happily go set up in some other space with the Clarett rig and bring the tracks home to mix. In that sense the room environment is the thing to seek out, and I know of at least 2 cool rooms I can work in already. One of them is a friend's basement that I did labor for the acoustic treatment. I'm a little bit jealous of that room, to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 30, 2018 16:25:33 GMT -6
shadowamd said : That's just downright rude, svart has a studio and tries to do it full time do you not respect his opinion because it's not yours? I had a studio for seven years and worked 100 hours a week hanging on tooth and claw, just because I'm now what you refer to in a derogatory fashion a "weekend" warrior my opinion is worthless?
This isn't winding up "like GS" at this point it's going down the same path.. Jeez.!
Why is that rude? I like to hear opinions from guys who are in the same boat as I am. It doesn't mean I completely discount others opinions. I use and value them as I see fit. I said nothing rude. I'm just feeling like - as professionals, working professionally - that we're being painted as a snob or elitist or know it all or something. Neither of which I personally aspire to. I say let all have their opinion, and be aware of what they do and use - or not use - their opinions as you see fit. I'm not trying to run off guys who boot their studio once a month. At the same time, I wouldn't want to run off professionals either. Seems like you've got some chip on your shoulder or something.... Not sure what's going on.
Live and let live.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Aug 30, 2018 16:25:47 GMT -6
There are some killer deals on used consoles out there. We're talking ten cents on the dollar vs. new. So for $10k you are already @ $100K in the eyes of gear lovers
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 16:45:15 GMT -6
shadowamd said : That's just downright rude, svart has a studio and tries to do it full time do you not respect his opinion because it's not yours? I had a studio for seven years and worked 100 hours a week hanging on tooth and claw, just because I'm now what you refer to in a derogatory fashion a "weekend" warrior my opinion is worthless?
This isn't winding up "like GS" at this point it's going down the same path.. Jeez.! Why is that rude? I like to hear opinions from guys who are in the same boat as I am. It doesn't mean I completely discount others opinions. I use and value them as I see fit. I said nothing rude. I'm just feeling like - as professionals, working professionally - that we're being painted as a snob or elitist or know it all or something. Neither of which I personally aspire to. I say let all have their opinion, and be aware of what they do and use - or not use - their opinions as you see fit. I'm not trying to run off guys who boot their studio once a month. At the same time, I wouldn't want to run off professionals either. Seems like you've got some chip on your shoulder or something.... Not sure what's going on. Live and let live.
I'm not a psychic Bill, that's the way it came across.. Yeah, everyone's opinion is valid and I can see both sides of the coin (as I usually do). I can understand those maximising their inexpensive power setup and those who will stop at nothing to seek the sound they desire (put me in the latter camp)..
Chip on my shoulder? Nah, that would be the lovely European blunt as a hammer attitude. I've worked for many US companies and it's a marmite trait, some love it and some not so much.. We don't tend not to "sugar coat" things or try to appease for no apparent reason, append that to a progammers "logic" and you've got an interesting combination..
Why would anyone get "run off" by an opinion? It's not like it'll make or break things for someone and yeah I can be opinionated but it's because I'm passionate about this craft, not because I think anyone is necessarily "right or wrong".. Unless it comes to science where it's mainly fact as opposed to opinion ..
Oh and who doesn't love a good debate?
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 30, 2018 16:48:06 GMT -6
Well, wasn't meant rude. I'm not a psychic either.
I'll say it again - live and let live. If RGO wants to be hobbyist only, then politely let the professionals know. Don't put em on blast for having a professional opinion. They'll wander off soon enough....
As blunt as Europeans may be (I'll take your word on this, as my experience is different), you've got to have a bit of finesse on internet forums where we're not face to face. <thumbsup>
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 17:00:30 GMT -6
Well, wasn't meant rude. I'm not a psychic either. I'll say it again - live and let live. If RGO wants to be hobbyist only, then politely let the professionals know. Don't put em on blast for having a professional opinion. They'll wander off soon enough.... As blunt as Europeans may be (I'll take your word on this, as my experience is different), you've got to have a bit of finesse on internet forums where we're not face to face. <thumbsup> I'd rather be honest than obscure, in terms of finesse I'd probably put that one back at you..
I've worked in audio via various forms my entire working career, you do not get to define who has a "professional" opinion.
Live and let live as you say .. Suffice to say, stick a fork in me I'm done.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 30, 2018 17:02:41 GMT -6
Well, wasn't meant rude. I'm not a psychic either. I'll say it again - live and let live. If RGO wants to be hobbyist only, then politely let the professionals know. Don't put em on blast for having a professional opinion. They'll wander off soon enough.... As blunt as Europeans may be (I'll take your word on this, as my experience is different), you've got to have a bit of finesse on internet forums where we're not face to face. <thumbsup> I'd rather be honest than obscure, in terms of finesse I'd probably put that one back at you..
I've worked in audio via various forms my entire working career, you do not get to define who has a "professional" opinion.
Live and let live as you say .. Suffice to say, stick a fork in me I'm done. I wasn't talking about "professional opinions" - we've all got that. I was speaking about working professionals and their opinions - professional or not.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 30, 2018 17:07:26 GMT -6
OK, Can we get back to the hypothetical $100,000 limit to set up the studio? It’s supposed to be fun.
|
|
|
Post by john on Aug 30, 2018 17:25:53 GMT -6
hmmm...
tree console mara 8 track ampex 351 2 track zener curvebender
bricasti pair of space echoes
coles 4038s redd47 rs124
funny thing is, aside from the console and tape machines, i've had all the other gear at some point in time. just never altogether and working in unison.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 17:35:25 GMT -6
OK, Can we get back to the hypothetical $100,000 limit to set up the studio? It’s supposed to be fun. Always good to restart the flow with a good meme or two..
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 30, 2018 18:08:44 GMT -6
Love that!
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 30, 2018 18:33:44 GMT -6
Very funny! Thanks also, to those who responded to my "hardware compared to plug-in question". As the least skillful recordist who posts here, I really appreciate how each of the "regular" members contribute something valuable here at this website. Chris
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 30, 2018 20:32:32 GMT -6
This is actually a great exercise. It puts me in a different mindset. Trying to figure out exactly what I'd get makes me think about my real ambitions and priorities. I'll try to post a list tomorrow, it's harder than it seems.
|
|
|
Post by subspace on Aug 30, 2018 21:25:48 GMT -6
$100k to replace my 30 years of accumulated "less the $5k at a time" purchases, hmm.. well, splash out of course!
Neve Genesys Black 8 channel - $49,250. Yeah, a $50k 8 channel desk. Your goddamn right you don't have one, it's a $50k 8 channel desk! (2) Neve 4081s with digital cards - $5,700-5,900 on Reverb. What kind of preamps do we use? Both kinds! 1073 and 1081s!
Ok, I currently have an 8 channel automated audient with a HUI DAW control layer in front of a 34" screen, plus a 16x8 Trident Trimix sidecar, so you can see where I'm going with the replacement 8 channel Neve with 8 subgroups, integrated 23" touchscreen and 16 HUI faders. The Neve has eight 1073 preamps with encoders that can be switched to control the 4081s remotely, eight 88RS EQs and the 8 direct outs and 8 subgroups have builtin A/D with AES outs. The 4081 digital cards provide another eight A/D with AES outs plus eight D/A with AES ins.
I'd still have all my off-site back-ups from '99-'06 as MOTU AudioDesk projects and '07-'18 as Pro Tools sessions, so I could re-install Pro Tools 12, AudioDesk 4, Logic Pro X and Tracktion 7 with my Avid and Eventide plug-ins, Soundtoys 5, T-Racks 5 and AmpliTube 4 bundles to this rig:
MacBook Pro 15" 2.6GHz 6-core i7, 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD - $2,800. Pretty much my exact machine with 50% more cores. iLok3 - $39. Suddenly software seems like the safer investment, who'da thunk? MOTU 112D - $1,495. Change my 16A to an AES interface, but keep that wifi controlled cue mix on iPads happening. Presonus HP60 - $300 (6) Sennheiser HD280Pro - $600
So the 112D would feed 16 AES outs to the line inputs and monitor inputs, while the last 8 AES outs feed the 4081 D/As, which in turn feed the HP amp 4 mixes. Here's a neat trick, the 4081 can sit in the tracking room and pass AES mic signals to the 112D and 4 stereo mixes over AES back to the HP amp while being controlled remotely by the desk. The other neat trick is the desk has full recall, so all the EQs, aux sends, return levels, etc. can be stored for a mix. Extending that to outboard gear choices:
(2) Neve 2254/R - $5,600. I really didn't intend to make this a super-expensive Neve theme, there's just not a lot of vibe comps with recall... WesAudio Titan NG500 Recall Rack - $1,100 (2) WesAudio Mimas FET Compressors - $2,200 Bettermaker C502V Dual Compressor - $1,600 Bettermaker EQ 502P Dual EQ - $1,600
So eight 1073 & eight 1081 preamps, eight 88RS 4-band EQs & two Pultec EQs, two 2254s, two FET comps and a dual VCA compressor to integrate with the desk recall. I'm still missing something for a tracking session... what could it be... oh yeah:
(2) Neumann U87Ai - $6,400. Got Neumann? (2) Telefunken M60 - $1,150 (2) Beyerdynamic M130 - $1,400 (2) Beyerdynamic M201 TG - $600 (3) Sennheiser MD421 - $1,140 (1) Shure SM7B - $400 (1) Shure Beta 52A - $190 (3) Shure SM57 - $300. Really? I think the ones from the fire would be fine. (1) Little Labs Redeye 3D Phantom - $290 (2) Countryman Type 85 -$300
I know what you're thinking, "so esoteric, where'd he get these mic choices from?" Well the thing you need to know about me is I'm kind of a rule-breaker...
(2) JBL LSR708i monitors - $3,000. See? who saw those JBLs in a recording studio coming?
edit: I left $11k on the table, ha! Let's just say I opened a house account at Redco...
|
|
|
Post by matt on Aug 30, 2018 21:34:32 GMT -6
I have around $53K invested in studio gear as of today. I was a bit shocked after I added it all up. But I also have $50K into Les Pauls (all Bursts), so it's a matter of perspective. My focus is on mixing, so I am light on mics and preamps. But what I have is nice: an A-Designs Ventura and a Slate Fox (a real sleeper IMO), with a Cathedral Pipes Notre Dame as my #1 U47ish vocal mic. If I expanded to record live drums, or an entire band, I'd need more of both. However, I could use the preamps in my Midas F32, which is sitting in reserve off in a corner, and I have other mics: Audix D5, Beyer MC930, TLM102- all in multiples. Knowing what I know now, I could have saved some money. I went down some deep rabbit holes on the way to where I am now. A smartly spent $100K can get you a badass recording/mixing rig, absolutely. I'm pretty much there at half that budget. If my recordings sound flawed, it's on me as the artist/engineer, not the gear.
|
|
|
Post by bigbone on Aug 31, 2018 9:42:55 GMT -6
I could be wrong,but maybe Klauth was asking for a "private " studio about the 100K and not a Public a la Avator , Capitol, Abbey Road,Blackbird etc etc. If you are talking about these studio, you can't get 5% of there gear for a 100K. but if you talk private or semi private. and i'm not talking pro or semi pro, for 100K you can get some decent gear to record for sure. Now the gear won't give you a better quality recording without the talent, sure it could help. but a real talent singers or musicians will manage to sound great whatever the gear in front of them,if the gear is a excuse for a bad performance, don't change the mic, change the singer..... So depend on what you try to get. yes it's doable to get something good and decent for 100K......... You just got to find what you need.!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by klauth on Aug 31, 2018 9:50:59 GMT -6
I could be wrong,but maybe Klauth was asking for a "private " studio about the 100K and not a Public !!!BINGO!!! But, its great to hear from the big guns as well. A re start....is just that. a 100 G's is enough to get most going again....but not happy so, it makes you think of your now seasoned choices so, let's keep it going, I'm shure there are more greats rants out there!
|
|
|
Post by bigbone on Aug 31, 2018 9:59:51 GMT -6
!!!BINGO!!! But, its great to hear from the big guns as well. Most " big guns" engineer or " famous one' with credit list a miles aways don't own there gears, they are smart.... . they let someone else invest and loose money with a studio..... There a few exeption like Allen Side and a few other,but they go to other well equipe studio.!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 31, 2018 10:00:52 GMT -6
Let's cut the "hobbyist, semi-pro, pro" nonsense out. Almost everyone here at Realgear has had tons of professional experience in music or music production. Yes, the site is "gear centric" but gear means little without good music to use it for. One realgear regular I know plays a great piano, has a music degree, over 30 years teaching music in schools, and can put together 8 tracks of perfect harmonies by himself without autotune in an hour, but has a modest home studio by pro standards. Labeling someone like that a hobbyist would be an insult. He's a music professional, just not aspiring to own his own world class studio.
Me, I've made a full time living as a musician my entire life. I've played almost every important club in New York, had major label deals, toured the US, written, produced and sometimes engineered at least 100 radio and TV commercials, taught music to kids, owned my own small studio for ten years, put my own albums out, and worked in many legendary studios with award winning producers. Yet, after recovering from illness, I'm now at home with basically an Apollo and a mic, hoping to get my own thing going again. Does this make me a hobbyist? I think not, so let's just enjoy the ride here and perhaps be a little more careful how we put things.
Opinions are fine, strong opinions are fine, but let's not spoil a good thing. Some of the coolest engineers and producers visit here, and I'd like to see it stay that way.
Hmm, thinking on the $100,000 question, I first have to decide what I want to use a space for. I'm leaning toward being able to record a 5-6 piece band doing basic tracks live. That sure changes the possible gear list from just doing song demos/albums at home. It probably means getting a soundboard, or am I wrong?
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 31, 2018 10:12:23 GMT -6
Martin, a desk sure makes things easier, but with proper outboard, patchbay, etc, it can be done Without one.
Check out Ryan Freelands mobile setup. Basically has an entire studio he can send anywhere and make a record. (Ray Lamantagne’s Abun with the Pariah Dogs was tracked at Ray’s house with this setup)
|
|
|
Post by spindrift on Aug 31, 2018 11:53:31 GMT -6
Martin, a desk sure makes things easier, but with proper outboard, patchbay, etc, it can be done Without one. Check out Ryan Freelands mobile setup. Basically has an entire studio he can send anywhere and make a record. (Ray Lamantagne’s Abun with the Pariah Dogs was tracked at Ray’s house with this setup) This is exactly my approach as well. My rig is well outfitted and entirely mobile. I can be packed up and rolling anywhere in 4 hours.
|
|
|
Post by spindrift on Aug 31, 2018 11:53:57 GMT -6
Now the gear won't give you a better quality recording without the talent, sure it could help. but a real talent singers or musicians will manage to sound great whatever the gear in front of them,if the gear is a excuse for a bad performance, don't change the mic, change the singer..... ^^^^^^ Exactly.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 31, 2018 13:13:14 GMT -6
There's a big difference between being able to pick and scrounge over time and paying way under market (my preferred technique for acquiring gear) and having to purchase stuff RIGHT NOW at market prices to rebuild a studio lost to a catastrophe.
The first rule of gear sniping is that the killer deals are never around when you really NEED them, they're there when they're there.
Bragging about how cheap you got stuff is a kind of reverse snobbery that can be just as obnoxious, if not mre so, than bragging about the amount you have tied up in your rig.
Hey, I paid about $1,200 for my original brass capsule AKG C12A in mint condition with a custom built 9 pattern power supply!
Well you can call it bragging if you want. I was merely countering with my also ridiculous numbers to show what's possible if you're a crazy miser with some soldering skills. Of course everyone is free to spend what they want. It's their money. But I just don't like when folks heavily insinuate something isn't possible simply because it's not what they'd do. You're missing my point.
Ther problem was posed as a situation where you're rebuilding you studio via an imsurance settlement. That means that your methodology is not valid.
This actually strikes really close to home for me, as I have far less involved in my own studio than the insurance valuationm, which is based on replacement cost, not what I actually paid over the course of many years of bargain hunting and assembly/repair work.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 31, 2018 13:18:01 GMT -6
Personally? If I was to start again: $4K for a fast PC / MAC and DAW $2.5K A&H Zed R-16 (just for the amount of decent pre-amps mainly) $600.00 for every ISK mic they have $500.00 for a drum mic kit $900.00 for an MD-441 / SM57 / SM58 (for cabs / vox) $1K for NI ultimate (including the pretty cool Softube plugs) $3K for some tracking channel strips (not a necessity but whatever) $3K for some outboard effects (again not a necessity but nice to have) Then I would spend $45K on the things that actually matters: A custom built acoustically awesome tracking and mixing outhouse built from the ground up designed by an acoustician. (I got quoted $30K for one)..The best sounding instruments / amps etc. I could possibly find. ($10K) The best monitors I could afford that made a reasonable difference. ($5K) Get the above three right and the rest is a breeze plus I'm still $40K under budget here.. I've not mentioned cabling but with my SSL 4K I managed to do it myself (cable runs etc.) for less than $5K.. Then again there was only two tracking rooms and a very limited set of close proximity HW.. Oh yeah, europe is FECKING expensive for everything too..!
I'm not a fan of plastering walls though, so as it's a "dream" setup add $5K in there for labour as well.
Er, um, that "outhouse" could very easily cost you the whole hundred grand. $30k is delusional.
|
|