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Post by chessparov on Aug 29, 2018 15:04:36 GMT -6
Vintage Mackie & ADAT (optional stick not included) anyone? If I really had a commercial studio, along with the know-how, I'd be tempted to get a Radar system too Eric. Have to get a U87 (new or old), Avalon 737, shades, and some gold chains! (Well if I got into Rap/Hip Hop) Chris
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Post by svart on Aug 29, 2018 15:07:17 GMT -6
OP: "I would like a car that I can get groceries in"
DrBill: "Nothing less than a Ferrari will work"
Me: "that's ridiculous"
DrBill: "My ferrari's engine costs 50K!"
Me: "You could have gotten a cheaper car to do the same work"
DrBill: "you're bitter and you don't understand! I'm not bragging, but my ferrari's engine cost 50K!"
Ridiculous.
Look, I don't care about what you spent, really. However, the notion of suggesting that someone can't make decent recordings with 100K to spend is ludicrous. Gloating about the cost of your cables notwithstanding, you also suggest I just "don't get it" and lack "cable acumen" because I don't share the same opinion about what you paid for your cables.
EGO.
To that I say that paying that much isn't a "calculated pro situation", it's poor business planning.
I have multiple 50ft runs of 24ch snake cable in my studio, and another 200ft of 8 channel snake for headphone distribution. I have 6x gold-pinned ELCOs and 32x db25 between everything. I have 480 TT patch points, and 3 racks full of gear. I used canare, mogami and belden digital cable and neutrik connectors.
Maybe it's a total of 2K in materials, another 2K-ish in labor if I hired one of my techs to solder it up.
I wired 75% of it myself, and bought the rest second-hand. Big "pennies on the dollar" discounts can be had by buying up snakes and things from big studios that closed down. deals can be had on connectors and jacks if you look around. 30$ TT patchbays all day long on Ebay just needing someone to solder them up.
But what do I know, right? I lack cable acumen. I guess being a transmission line expert and designing high speed analog and digital systems to work over various forms of conductors doesn't really mean I can speak about cables.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 29, 2018 15:13:24 GMT -6
I think Dr Bill was only trying to be helpful. Just curious svart, if you had to do a "replacement" for your studio, and it wasn't someone as knowledgeable as you (like me!)...
What would be your approximate replacement cost? Chris
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Post by svart on Aug 29, 2018 15:21:00 GMT -6
I think Dr Bill was only trying to be helpful. Just curious svart, if you had to do a "replacement" for your studio, and it wasn't someone as knowledgeable as you (like me!)... What would be your approximate replacement cost? Chris Well, bill likes to poopoo other people's ideas, he's kinda known for it and it gets old. Anyway, my studio? I had to do inventory for insurance not too long ago and it would be about 35K all in to replace everything with brand name stuff. A lot of my gear is custom and/or DIY, so my actual cash investment is somewhere around 18k-20k.
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Post by drbill on Aug 29, 2018 15:24:44 GMT -6
OP: "I would like a car that I can get groceries in" DrBill: "Nothing less than a Ferrari will work" Me: "that's ridiculous" DrBill: "My ferrari's engine costs 50K!" Me: "You could have gotten a cheaper car to do the same work" DrBill: "you're bitter and you don't understand! I'm not bragging, but my ferrari's engine cost 50K!" Ridiculous. Look, I don't care about what you spent, really. However, the notion of suggesting that someone can't make decent recordings with 100K to spend is ludicrous. Gloating about the cost of your cables notwithstanding, you also suggest I just "don't get it" and lack "cable acumen" because I don't share the same opinion about what you paid for your cables. EGO. To that I say that paying that much isn't a "calculated pro situation", it's poor business planning. I have multiple 50ft runs of 24ch snake cable in my studio, and another 200ft of 8 channel snake for headphone distribution. I have 6x gold-pinned ELCOs and 32x db25 between everything. I have 480 TT patch points, and 3 racks full of gear. I used canare, mogami and belden digital cable and neutrik connectors. Maybe it's a total of 2K in materials, another 2K-ish in labor if I hired one of my techs to solder it up. I wired 75% of it myself, and bought the rest second-hand. Big "pennies on the dollar" discounts can be had by buying up snakes and things from big studios that closed down. deals can be had on connectors and jacks if you look around. 30$ TT patchbays all day long on Ebay just needing someone to solder them up. But what do I know, right? I lack cable acumen. I guess being a transmission line expert and designing high speed analog and digital systems to work over various forms of conductors doesn't really mean I can speak about cables. You made multiple assumptions about my posts and about about me that are 100% false. I cannot fix your reading comprehension or internal biases against me, but I can clarify : I never said nothing less than a ferrari will work. You are delusional. First, $50k in wire is FAR from Ferrari status. I'd guess more BMW status. Also, the OP never said anything about groceries. Groceries are everyday affairs. A studio is anything but. Anyone spending $100k or more is making a pretty significant investment in studio infrastructure. Hence, the "groceries" analogy does not hold water. Why you must continually paint me as some egomaniacal madman is ludicrous. My words speak for themselves. Your intrepretation is.... ugh, never mind. You're purposefully making up stuff to make your point, and purposefully misconstruing what I said. I never said anyone couldn't make decent recordings for less than $100,000. Personally, I'd guess you can make FANTASTIC recordings for $10k and probably less if you know what you're doing, and spend wisely. Bolded so maybe you won't miss it. But that's not what I'd want to do if I got a $100k insurance settlement if my studio burned. I'd want to spend it the way I'd want to spend it. Even if you think it ridiculous. You're the only one saying "it must be your way" - you will not allow me an opinion that isn't "ridiculous". I NEVER said anywhere that it couldn't be done for less, or that it HAD to be spent. I'm merely giving my PERSONAL perspective on the issue - just like everyone else. As one person mentioned he'd get a mackie and an adat. Cool. More power to him, but that's not where I'd be headed, and both are OK IMO. If there is room for blackbird and room for the beginner with a laptop, a 2 channel interface and an SM58, then I think there's room for me somewhere in the middle without fear of being "ridiculous". If you say I have an ego, well...thanks. I think we all do. I didn't "poo poo" ANYONE elses opinion - they are all valid. You're the only one doing that. The money I have invested in my studio has paid for two homes outright, a couple of studio's, all my wiring , supporting a family, and even some savings for retirement. I've been a full time musician / producer / engineer / composer for all of my life. I've had to make a career in music work any way I could - I don't have a day job. All I hear from you is that no bands want to work in your studio. If you've got that much cable in your studio, you haven't checked wiring prices lately if you think it's only worth 2k. The OP we had to build from scratch, right? That means buying all your cable again. Stop by Redco and check it out. If my studio burns down, the last thing I want to do is spend 3 months wiring up cables. Go ahead and respond. Feel free to inject your own opinions about what I REALLY mean by all of this. But you won't hear back from me on this topic again. Got music to deliver here...
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 29, 2018 15:53:24 GMT -6
What in the hell are you buying that you can't even record drums with 100K? That's ridiculous. Well you need TWO Fairchilds... one for the hi hat mic and one for the under snare mic. Yeah. I should have bought both of the ones I passed on for $50 each at the San Jose Flea Market about a year before I learned what they were. And the 4 RCA BA6As.
DAMMIT!
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Post by Guitar on Aug 29, 2018 15:59:06 GMT -6
Well you need TWO Fairchilds... one for the hi hat mic and one for the under snare mic. Yeah. I should have bought both of the ones I passed on for $50 each at the San Jose Flea Market about a year before I learned what they were. And the 4 RCA BA6As.
DAMMIT!
Yeah I've always liked your sounds, John, but I thought your under snare and hi hats could use some polishing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 16:04:31 GMT -6
Personally? If I was to start again: $4K for a fast PC / MAC and DAW $2.5K A&H Zed R-16 (just for the amount of decent pre-amps mainly) $600.00 for every ISK mic they have $500.00 for a drum mic kit $900.00 for an MD-441 / SM57 / SM58 (for cabs / vox) $1K for NI ultimate (including the pretty cool Softube plugs) $3K for some tracking channel strips (not a necessity but whatever) $3K for some outboard effects (again not a necessity but nice to have) Then I would spend $45K on the things that actually matters: A custom built acoustically awesome tracking and mixing outhouse built from the ground up designed by an acoustician. (I got quoted $30K for one).. The best sounding instruments / amps etc. I could possibly find. ($10K) The best monitors I could afford that made a reasonable difference. ($5K) Get the above three right and the rest is a breeze plus I'm still $40K under budget here.. I've not mentioned cabling but with my SSL 4K I managed to do it myself (cable runs etc.) for less than $5K.. Then again there was only two tracking rooms and a very limited set of close proximity HW.. Oh yeah, europe is FECKING expensive for everything too..!
I'm not a fan of plastering walls though, so as it's a "dream" setup add $5K in there for labour as well.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 29, 2018 16:10:12 GMT -6
OP: "I would like a car that I can get groceries in" DrBill: "Nothing less than a Ferrari will work" Me: "that's ridiculous" DrBill: "My ferrari's engine costs 50K!" Me: "You could have gotten a cheaper car to do the same work" DrBill: "you're bitter and you don't understand! I'm not bragging, but my ferrari's engine cost 50K!" Ridiculous. Look, I don't care about what you spent, really. However, the notion of suggesting that someone can't make decent recordings with 100K to spend is ludicrous. Gloating about the cost of your cables notwithstanding, you also suggest I just "don't get it" and lack "cable acumen" because I don't share the same opinion about what you paid for your cables. EGO. To that I say that paying that much isn't a "calculated pro situation", it's poor business planning. I have multiple 50ft runs of 24ch snake cable in my studio, and another 200ft of 8 channel snake for headphone distribution. I have 6x gold-pinned ELCOs and 32x db25 between everything. I have 480 TT patch points, and 3 racks full of gear. I used canare, mogami and belden digital cable and neutrik connectors. Maybe it's a total of 2K in materials, another 2K-ish in labor if I hired one of my techs to solder it up. I wired 75% of it myself, and bought the rest second-hand. Big "pennies on the dollar" discounts can be had by buying up snakes and things from big studios that closed down. deals can be had on connectors and jacks if you look around. 30$ TT patchbays all day long on Ebay just needing someone to solder them up. But what do I know, right? I lack cable acumen. I guess being a transmission line expert and designing high speed analog and digital systems to work over various forms of conductors doesn't really mean I can speak about cables. There's a big difference between being able to pick and scrounge over time and paying way under market (my preferred technique for acquiring gear) and having to purchase stuff RIGHT NOW at market prices to rebuild a studio lost to a catastrophe.
The first rule of gear sniping is that the killer deals are never around when you really NEED them, they're there when they're there.
Bragging about how cheap you got stuff is a kind of reverse snobbery that can be just as obnoxious, if not mre so, than bragging about the amount you have tied up in your rig.
Hey, I paid about $1,200 for my original brass capsule AKG C12A in mint condition with a custom built 9 pattern power supply!
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 29, 2018 16:14:04 GMT -6
Yeah. I should have bought both of the ones I passed on for $50 each at the San Jose Flea Market about a year before I learned what they were. And the 4 RCA BA6As.
DAMMIT!
Yeah I've always liked your sounds, John, but I thought your under snare and hi hats could use some polishing. I don't use either under snare nor hihat mics.
BTW, speaking of polishing mics, how do you get the gunk out of the head grille?
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Post by klauth on Aug 29, 2018 16:19:28 GMT -6
Am enjoying the feedback. I chose the 100 grand figure because it wasn't enough to finish or replace an involved studio, but rather to restart it. I specially appreciate drbills contrabutuon to the thread. My Intent was to learn more about the methodology behind the priority choices.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 29, 2018 16:31:14 GMT -6
Shadow, no U87? Surely you jest! Chris
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Post by svart on Aug 29, 2018 16:33:18 GMT -6
OP: "I would like a car that I can get groceries in" DrBill: "Nothing less than a Ferrari will work" Me: "that's ridiculous" DrBill: "My ferrari's engine costs 50K!" Me: "You could have gotten a cheaper car to do the same work" DrBill: "you're bitter and you don't understand! I'm not bragging, but my ferrari's engine cost 50K!" Ridiculous. Look, I don't care about what you spent, really. However, the notion of suggesting that someone can't make decent recordings with 100K to spend is ludicrous. Gloating about the cost of your cables notwithstanding, you also suggest I just "don't get it" and lack "cable acumen" because I don't share the same opinion about what you paid for your cables. EGO. To that I say that paying that much isn't a "calculated pro situation", it's poor business planning. I have multiple 50ft runs of 24ch snake cable in my studio, and another 200ft of 8 channel snake for headphone distribution. I have 6x gold-pinned ELCOs and 32x db25 between everything. I have 480 TT patch points, and 3 racks full of gear. I used canare, mogami and belden digital cable and neutrik connectors. Maybe it's a total of 2K in materials, another 2K-ish in labor if I hired one of my techs to solder it up. I wired 75% of it myself, and bought the rest second-hand. Big "pennies on the dollar" discounts can be had by buying up snakes and things from big studios that closed down. deals can be had on connectors and jacks if you look around. 30$ TT patchbays all day long on Ebay just needing someone to solder them up. But what do I know, right? I lack cable acumen. I guess being a transmission line expert and designing high speed analog and digital systems to work over various forms of conductors doesn't really mean I can speak about cables. There's a big difference between being able to pick and scrounge over time and paying way under market (my preferred technique for acquiring gear) and having to purchase stuff RIGHT NOW at market prices to rebuild a studio lost to a catastrophe.
The first rule of gear sniping is that the killer deals are never around when you really NEED them, they're there when they're there.
Bragging about how cheap you got stuff is a kind of reverse snobbery that can be just as obnoxious, if not mre so, than bragging about the amount you have tied up in your rig.
Hey, I paid about $1,200 for my original brass capsule AKG C12A in mint condition with a custom built 9 pattern power supply!
Well you can call it bragging if you want. I was merely countering with my also ridiculous numbers to show what's possible if you're a crazy miser with some soldering skills. Of course everyone is free to spend what they want. It's their money. But I just don't like when folks heavily insinuate something isn't possible simply because it's not what they'd do.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 29, 2018 16:33:55 GMT -6
Yeah I've always liked your sounds, John, but I thought your under snare and hi hats could use some polishing. I don't use either under snare nor hihat mics.
BTW, speaking of polishing mics, how do you get the gunk out of the head grille?
Ah, that explains it. For the mic I would recommend taking her out back and hosing her down. Then send it to Shannon Rhoades for a refurbish. But hose it down first.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 16:45:15 GMT -6
Am enjoying the feedback. I chose the 100 grand figure because it wasn't enough to finish or replace an involved studio, but rather to restart it. I specially appreciate drbills contrabutuon to the thread. My Intent was to learn more about the methodology behind the priority choices.
Crap in crap out chief, you'd be suprised what little you can get away with when core issues are addressed.. The rest is just light sugar dusting.! The primary cost factor is what you're recording, I came across a band that wanted a half sized orchestra in their track and that was an expensive experience. For EDM, I mean a two channel interface and a condenser with your room treatment / monitors / PC / VSTI's will get the job done..
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Post by chessparov on Aug 29, 2018 16:46:02 GMT -6
Monkeyxx,for some reason, the scene in Cool Hand Luke, where the girl "washes" the car just occurred to me! Chris
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Post by rowmat on Aug 29, 2018 16:50:23 GMT -6
Yeah I've always liked your sounds, John, but I thought your under snare and hi hats could use some polishing. I don't use either under snare nor hihat mics.
BTW, speaking of polishing mics, how do you get the gunk out of the head grille?
Ultrasonic cleaner. But don't stick the capsule in it, just the grille.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 17:06:16 GMT -6
Shadow, no U87? Surely you jest! Chris Long gone are the days of appeasing people by brand names, I have a certain criteria for mic's..
1. Must sound good on multiple sources 2. Must not have an annoying "zing" / excessive distortion
3. Must take well to EQ and compression
I have mic's under $300.00 that can do that so why would I bother? If I was to record someone else today and they moaned about the lack of Neumann's I'd be like there's the door, shoo, shoo.!
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Post by Guitar on Aug 29, 2018 17:17:52 GMT -6
Monkeyxx,for some reason, the scene in Cool Hand Luke, where the girl "washes" the car just occurred to me! Chris I just went and re-watched the scene... exactly what I was hoping for! Haha. ;-D
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Post by Guitar on Aug 29, 2018 17:19:29 GMT -6
Shadow, no U87? Surely you jest! Chris Long gone are the days of appeasing people by brand names, I have a certain criteria for mic's..
1. Must sound good on multiple sources 2. Must not have an annoying "zing" / excessive distortion
3. Must take well to EQ and compression
I have mic's under $300.00 that can do that so why would I bother? If I was to record someone else today and they moaned about the lack of Neumann's I'd be like there's the door, shoo, shoo.!
Well I think as long as you have your $300 SM7B budget you'll be doing "just fine" just make sure that you include the n00b-standard "cloudlifter" because no-one seems to know why.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 29, 2018 17:40:01 GMT -6
Long gone are the days of appeasing people by brand names, I have a certain criteria for mic's..
1. Must sound good on multiple sources 2. Must not have an annoying "zing" / excessive distortion
3. Must take well to EQ and compression
I have mic's under $300.00 that can do that so why would I bother? If I was to record someone else today and they moaned about the lack of Neumann's I'd be like there's the door, shoo, shoo.!
Well I think as long as you have your $300 SM7B budget you'll be doing "just fine" just make sure that you include the n00b-standard "cloudlifter" because no-one seems to know why. I especially enjoyed the guy at the other place who suggested putting a 300 ohm load resistor across the input of a CL for use with an SM7......I think you probably saw that one....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 17:43:34 GMT -6
Long gone are the days of appeasing people by brand names, I have a certain criteria for mic's..
1. Must sound good on multiple sources 2. Must not have an annoying "zing" / excessive distortion
3. Must take well to EQ and compression
I have mic's under $300.00 that can do that so why would I bother? If I was to record someone else today and they moaned about the lack of Neumann's I'd be like there's the door, shoo, shoo.!
Well I think as long as you have your $300 SM7B budget you'll be doing "just fine" just make sure that you include the n00b-standard "cloudlifter" because no-one seems to know why.
The real issue there is using an SM7B in the first place..
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Post by Guitar on Aug 29, 2018 17:46:12 GMT -6
Well I think as long as you have your $300 SM7B budget you'll be doing "just fine" just make sure that you include the n00b-standard "cloudlifter" because no-one seems to know why. I especially enjoyed the guy at the other place who suggested putting a 300 ohm load resistor across the input of a CL for use with an SM7......I think you probably saw that one.... That was a good one! And I think I saw that you saw that!! haha
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 29, 2018 18:36:00 GMT -6
Hey drbill, out of curiosity, how often are you recording vocals? I found 1500+ of your songs and only 1 has some minor background chanting.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 29, 2018 18:40:32 GMT -6
Well I think as long as you have your $300 SM7B budget you'll be doing "just fine" just make sure that you include the n00b-standard "cloudlifter" because no-one seems to know why.
The real issue there is using an SM7B in the first place..
Nah, they're fine, and more likely to work well 95% of the time on unknown rock singers in 1-2 day EP sessions than pretty much anything else.
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