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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 4:32:18 GMT -6
I need a reverb unit for the FX sends on my board, not really thay fussed about external control if I can make presets or find what I need quickly via front pannels. The PCM96 has a dual engine with both verbs and delays which is quite handy, it also comes bundled with the plugs and it's half the price of the Bricasti..
Then again the Bricasti might appeal to my o'natural sound preferences. What do you think?
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 19, 2018 5:50:59 GMT -6
I know people who swear by their Bricasti and others who have sold theirs.
Not certain, what to conclude; other than, it’s both a lot of verb and a lot of money ?
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Post by wiz on Aug 19, 2018 6:15:40 GMT -6
If you want to upgrade the sound of your room.....Bricasti
If you close mic.... bricasti
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 7:47:47 GMT -6
Let me throw a spanner into the works, the Eventide 2016.. Which does some pretty lush sounding rooms + it also does the dreamy SNES style modular verbs in HD, also found a place that's selling the Lexicon PCM92's brand new for near enough the cost of the plugs.. So I could get both.
Hmm, this got even harder.. I need more clips of the Bricasti, whilst it sounds somewhat realistic from what I've heard it's lacking some of the overtones I like in verbs although you could probably change a setting or something.
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 19, 2018 8:18:20 GMT -6
The Lexicon exists in plugin form, so consider that. And the Bricasti can be controlled via plugin.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 19, 2018 8:27:15 GMT -6
If you want to upgrade the sound of your room.....Bricasti If you close mic.... bricasti Cheers Wiz I also like the Bricasti plates. I use the Sun Plate, London Plate and others for vocals all the time.
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Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2018 9:39:46 GMT -6
I've owned PCM96, 480L, and Bricasti - along with a TON of other cheaper hardware verbs over the years....
Currently own only the Bricasti and plugs (and a few of my 80's one trick pony - once once every 3-4 year boxes).
- I sold the 480L cause it was a boat anchor waiting to happen, and worth WAY too much. (although I did love it). - I sold the PCM96 because the firewire thing was a disaster, and because the plugin was just as good sounding. (IMO) - I kept the Bricasti cause nothing else does what it does. Not even close. IR's included.
I'd use plugs (native and LX480) over the PCM96.
If you MUST have hardware, and MUST have Lexicon (having Lexicon is something I completely understand...but I get it via plugins), then I would try the v.2.x Bricasti first to see if it does what you want. It imitates Lexicon in v.2.x but in my mind doesn't quite achieve what a 480L does. If that works for you, end of search. You've got the best of both worlds. If it doesn't make it for you, buy a 480L and pray it doesn't blow up anytime soon. If that's not an option, ditch the PCM96, and buy a PCM92. Less money, just as good (identical aside from the i/o) and be happy.
If it was me, before buying a 480L, I'd get another cheap computer, crappy interface and run the LX480 on the computer thru the console.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 10:16:53 GMT -6
I've owned PCM96, 480L, and Bricasti - along with a TON of other cheaper hardware verbs over the years.... Currently own only the Bricasti and plugs (and a few of my 80's one trick pony - once once every 3-4 year boxes). - I sold the 480L cause it was a boat anchor waiting to happen, and worth WAY too much. (although I did love it). - I sold the PCM96 because the firewire thing was a disaster, and because the plugin was just as good sounding. (IMO) - I kept the Bricasti cause nothing else does what it does. Not even close. IR's included. I'd use plugs (native and LX480) over the PCM96. If you MUST have hardware, and MUST have Lexicon (having Lexicon is something I completely understand...but I get it via plugins), then I would try the v.2.x Bricasti first to see if it does what you want. It imitates Lexicon in v.2.x but in my mind doesn't quite achieve what a 480L does. If that works for you, end of search. You've got the best of both worlds. If it doesn't make it for you, buy a 480L and pray it doesn't blow up anytime soon. If that's not an option, ditch the PCM96, and buy a PCM92. Less money, just as good (identical aside from the i/o) and be happy. If it was me, before buying a 480L, I'd get another cheap computer, crappy interface and run the LX480 on the computer thru the console.
Thanks Doc ..
What I'm essentially trying to do is replicate my Soundcraft mixer setup, it had a dual engine FX unit where you could send the two FX channels to an integrated verb and delay unit. Sure it was the cheapo lexicons, but I still enjoyed it nevertheless..
I'll probably grab the Lexicon plugs either way and you're right the PCM92 at the moment is going for next to nothing like $800.00 new as opposed to the $2.5K the PCM 96's are going for??! I've read the dual engine thing on the PCM96 doesn't work all that well so I'll essentially be using a PCM92 as a delay box and then I need a verb unit on top..
The PCM92 at least is a given, now I just need to decide between the Eventide 2016 and Bricasti .. Can't get over that cool SNES like verb effect, but I'll probably use it once in a blue moon..
Actually I used a Cooper Timecube like ALL the time and that was a one trick pony, so maybe not??
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Post by jimwilliams on Aug 19, 2018 10:43:07 GMT -6
When both were released I got a chance to play quite a bit with both at NAMM. I was an exhibitor so I got in early before the crowds so I could play and listen alone.
The PCM96 was impressive, like a 480 in a small package. It reminded me of those classic Lexicon chorus/reverb sounds. The M7 was in another class altogether. Brian showed me all the possibilities and he really messed with my head switching from the real Boston Hall ambiences to the Bricasti's version. I could not tell which was which. The M7 sells the room better than anything ever invented.
Since that was what I was looking for I sold off my hot-rodded Lexicon 224XL that week and bought the M7. I never looked back as I have other Lexicon stuff for those sounds.
There are two types of studios in this world: Those that have/use the M7 and those that do not. Which are you?
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Post by drsax on Aug 19, 2018 10:56:18 GMT -6
I've owned PCM96, 480L, and Bricasti - along with a TON of other cheaper hardware verbs over the years.... Currently own only the Bricasti and plugs (and a few of my 80's one trick pony - once once every 3-4 year boxes). - I sold the 480L cause it was a boat anchor waiting to happen, and worth WAY too much. (although I did love it). - I sold the PCM96 because the firewire thing was a disaster, and because the plugin was just as good sounding. (IMO) - I kept the Bricasti cause nothing else does what it does. Not even close. IR's included. I'd use plugs (native and LX480) over the PCM96. If you MUST have hardware, and MUST have Lexicon (having Lexicon is something I completely understand...but I get it via plugins), then I would try the v.2.x Bricasti first to see if it does what you want. It imitates Lexicon in v.2.x but in my mind doesn't quite achieve what a 480L does. If that works for you, end of search. You've got the best of both worlds. If it doesn't make it for you, buy a 480L and pray it doesn't blow up anytime soon. If that's not an option, ditch the PCM96, and buy a PCM92. Less money, just as good (identical aside from the i/o) and be happy. If it was me, before buying a 480L, I'd get another cheap computer, crappy interface and run the LX480 on the computer thru the console. Ditto... THIS ^^^^^ I don’t have anything to add other than this is pretty much exactly my experience as well. Used to own the PCM96 and Bricasti. The Bricasti is the one that remains and the Lex PCM plugin verbs sounded the same to me as the PCM96 hardware when I tested them back to back. Except the plugin interface is far easier to use than the hardware interface was. And you can use as many instances of the plugin as your computer will allow. It was a no brainer for me. I use the LX480 plugin as well and love it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 11:23:40 GMT -6
Guy's and gals, again I need more clips / audio / examples.. At the moment the Eventide's winning out, maybe I'm slightly deaf but I've not heard an example that made me throw my money at the screen yet.
I want to believe..! I really do, because I often miss a trick. It's an expensive unit, so I want it to surround me in natural verby goodness and I really need to be convinced on this one..
Not saying I won't get one, but to re-iterate I need A LOT of convincing..
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Post by nudwig on Aug 19, 2018 11:28:33 GMT -6
I too vote Bricasti. I'm sure I've said it on here before but if you get it you'll definitely want the Exponential Audio plugin controller. Makes the M7 as easy and flexible as a plugin, I only ever touch mine to turn it on (and check to make sure it's receiving midi and signal).
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Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2018 12:48:20 GMT -6
Guy's and gals, again I need more clips / audio / examples.. At the moment the Eventide's winning out, maybe I'm slightly deaf but I've not heard an example that made me throw my money at the screen yet.
I want to believe..! I really do, because I often miss a trick. It's an expensive unit, so I want it to surround me in natural verby goodness and I really need to be convinced on this one..
Not saying I won't get one, but to re-iterate I need A LOT of convincing..
Don't expect US to convince you. The only way of knowing for SURE is to get both in your room - long term. All we can do is relate our experiences. Everyone has different esthetic's and different needs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 13:11:56 GMT -6
Guy's and gals, again I need more clips / audio / examples.. At the moment the Eventide's winning out, maybe I'm slightly deaf but I've not heard an example that made me throw my money at the screen yet.
I want to believe..! I really do, because I often miss a trick. It's an expensive unit, so I want it to surround me in natural verby goodness and I really need to be convinced on this one..
Not saying I won't get one, but to re-iterate I need A LOT of convincing..
Don't expect US to convince you. The only way of knowing for SURE is to get both in your room - long term. All we can do is relate our experiences. Everyone has different esthetic's and different needs.
Where exactly did I state I'm "expecting" anyone to do anything? If these really are the prime rib there should be ample amounts of mind blowing examples everywhere and the proof is in the pudding.
There might be someone on this board who has used this unit to amazing effect and is willing to share or even just point me to an example, just like ragan I try to give examples of stuff if requested so others may get some insight (whatever little it may give).. Y'know why? Because I damn well like to help people, but y'know I second guess that perspective often.
I'm not in the USA where it's easy to get "pro" equipment in a revolving door fashion without a lot of work (if at all possible).. So DON'T assume I "expect", I'm just greatful when others are kind enough to assist as I would for others. I will try to get hold of it IF I can..
P.S There's a lot of threads I was reading here where people needed convincing (not surprising for a $5K reverb unit), nobody said a word.
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Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2018 13:28:25 GMT -6
Don't expect US to convince you. The only way of knowing for SURE is to get both in your room - long term. All we can do is relate our experiences. Everyone has different esthetic's and different needs.
Where exactly did I state I'm "expecting" anyone to do anything?
I think you said "Guy's and gals, again I need more clips / audio / examples.." Call it an expectation, call it a need, call it whatever you like. And you're right, you're not the only one.... But... I'm sorry, got no time for that, and even if I (someone) did, it's not a substitute for trying things in your own place. I don't make decisions based on "clips". I'm not in the "clip" generation I guess. I rarely listen to em cause I know how misleading they are. When someone sets up a clip, they set it up for THEIR esthetic, and the reality is, we each look for different things. Even if I make a specific request and it's answered, IMO, it really does not tell me what I need to know. Only using the unit in my studio (or another studio I work out of) will tell me that. In the same fashion, I always avoid the "what's the best xyz anything" or "what should I buy" threads. So don't get bent, I was not trying to offend, just offer realistic and useful info.... Good luck on the search. And secondarily, one of the main reason's I find that users "don't say a word" is cause they are using said box as one of their secret weapons. Still, if you are willing to do your research, there is anecdotal and real world info out there for you.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 19, 2018 13:29:31 GMT -6
Well sort of, you asked for opinions and you got them! But, no one can say their preference is yours ? I get the feeling with a bricasti, like Dr Bill said, the only way to know for certain is to try for an extended period. Not to presume, but you might try pm’ing cowboy( Herbie), as he had a bricasti,briefly a few years back, but at the time, I think concluded plug ins were getting the job done for him and sold the bricasti. I have wondered if he ever misses the bricasti ?
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Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2018 13:33:49 GMT -6
If you can't get units new to demo, then I suggest buying used, waiting for a decent / good deal, and selling if it doesn't suit your esthetic. Honestly, I've MADE money doing that.
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 19, 2018 13:36:34 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 13:48:50 GMT -6
The state of things in "pro audio" land isn't great over here, one of the reasons I'm trying to get this all sorted ASAP is because distributors are dumping entire lines / demo units are becoming scarce (if they'll lend you one at all).. Some are amazing like Microtech Gefell, they'll happily lend you something (which is one of the reasons I'll lean their way). KMR are pretty awesome at getting demo stuff as well, but it's very selective. When I went on my monitor search it was a six month investment, yes I fully understand there is no substitute for trying things in your chain.. Unless you do it's a lot of wild guessing and hoping for the best. Buying / selling used around here is a bit of a fools errand, I ended up taking a 70% loss on a recent sale and bought a number of defective units from proper retail shops and ebay alike..
It all takes up time I really don't have..
Before I do commit to trying something out though, I have to be at least semi-invested in it nowdays.. Ok, maybe I was a little over the top but still if I can find available resources I'll try that avenue first then dig deep.. Also, if I already had access to everything and knew what the crack is we wouldn't have much to talk about would we? ..! Thanks for the help everyone.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 19, 2018 13:49:30 GMT -6
When both were released I got a chance to play quite a bit with both at NAMM. I was an exhibitor so I got in early before the crowds so I could play and listen alone. The PCM96 was impressive, like a 480 in a small package. It reminded me of those classic Lexicon chorus/reverb sounds. The M7 was in another class altogether. Brian showed me all the possibilities and he really messed with my head switching from the real Boston Hall ambiences to the Bricasti's version. I could not tell which was which. The M7 sells the room better than anything ever invented. Since that was what I was looking for I sold off my hot-rodded Lexicon 224XL that week and bought the M7. I never looked back as I have other Lexicon stuff for those sounds. There are two types of studios in this world: Those that have/use the M7 and those that do not. Which are you? 78.media.tumblr.com/cbdc91841381d6aec48d9f8943bc5a4a/tumblr_n40kuzM7L31smcbm7o1_250.gif
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 14:13:12 GMT -6
Well sort of, you asked for opinions and you got them! But, no one can say their preference is yours ? I get the feeling with a bricasti, like Dr Bill said, the only way to know for certain is to try for an extended period. Not to presume, but you might try pm’ing cowboy( Herbie), as he had a bricasti,briefly a few years back, but at the time, I think concluded plug ins were getting the job done for him and sold the bricasti. I have wondered if he ever misses the bricasti ? I appreciate the opinons, I honestly do..
Although this device seems to be like Marmite, I've never heard anyone say I prefer my plugins to an outboard neve compressor.. I sent a mail off to about 4-5 engineers I know and it ranged from "couldn't live without it" to "sounds worse than my plugins"..
Got quite a heated reponse about the PCM96 Firewire stuff, which I understand.. Not one of them disliked the Lexicon though, only one of them has the Eventide 2016 and he really likes it..
If I can get a demo unit next week I'll go for it, if not I'll just get the Eventide and PCM92..
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 19, 2018 14:58:32 GMT -6
I don’t doubt for one second the Bricasti is great...I’d love to have one, but the whole obnoxious “here are two types of studios...” is just stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 15:08:39 GMT -6
I don’t doubt for one second the Bricasti is great...I’d love to have one, but the whole obnoxious “here are two types of studios...” is just stupid. Yup, absolutely stunning records were made before it existed.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 19, 2018 15:08:52 GMT -6
Gee, I don’t know, I thought he was being a bit humorously facetious, as it seems people either love them or get rid of them for what ever reasons?
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Post by wiz on Aug 19, 2018 16:36:19 GMT -6
The thing the bricasti does for me...is depth and ties everything together....rather than an obvious, oh that has reverb on it.
Send me some tracks, stems , and I will run off an example for you
Cheers
Wiz
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