|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2018 13:25:27 GMT -6
It's about exposure to new artists. Go to iTunes, play a song, notice the pale and greyed out artist's name is the smallest thing there. Considering the big pockets Apple has, for every song being played they could have a beautiful page with the info and photos of the artists, musicians, producers, engineers, studios and artist's bio's, tours, etc.
So, it's clear that they want music to be your wallpaper, not something you dig in deeper about. Why, I don't know.
Even streaming services could have a choice with plain streaming or streaming plus artists info and current event's, stories, etc.
I believe that would help people engage more with the musicians.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 13, 2018 13:36:30 GMT -6
It's about exposure to new artists. Go to iTunes, play a song, notice the pale and greyed out artist's name is the smallest thing there. Considering the big pockets Apple has, for every song being played they could have a beautiful page with the info and photos of the artists, musicians, producers, engineers, studios and artist's bio's, tours, etc. So, it's clear that they want music to be your wallpaper, not something you dig in deeper about. Why, I don't know. Even streaming services could have a choice with plain streaming or streaming plus artists info and current event's, stories, etc. I believe that would help people engage more with the musicians. Why? Because in Apple's case the music is incidental to their core busines, which is selling gizmos. Some companies' core business is selling service/access. Spotify's core business, as they have publicly stated, is selling Spotify. Music is only a commodity to be exploited to these people. They don't care about it or what it is, as long as they can use it to sell their main product.
Why should they bother with helping people engage with the music? It doesn't help their bottom line and it would be an added expense.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2018 13:41:11 GMT -6
I think it would be more interesting than the format is now, and that would gain them more customers. Also, it's in their interest to maintain customers. These days with iPhones, games on their iPads, streaming movies in the backseats of SUV's, younger people find just listening boring. Some cool visuals to complement the streaming sure wouldn't hurt.
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Jun 13, 2018 13:55:09 GMT -6
Not all of them. I have a DJ friend [who is a very successful local Hip Hop producer] who recently started a new boutique record store. He ordered like 10,000 records the other day. Honestly, I am super surprised that many of you say its "hard to find" new music. Depends where you live to a large degree. When I lived in The City there were lots of record shops, both in SF and The East Bay. 60 miles north in Fairfield there aren't even any real music bars except one way out by the airbase. And they only have music 2 nights a week mostly Top 40/oldies bands. For CDs there's Best Buy, which is discontinuing music by the end of the year. No vinyl. I'm not sure where the nearest vinyl store is.
Would a Hip-Hop producer be likely to carry the sort(s) of music I listen to?
On the internet the problem is largely the amount of dreck you have to wade through to find anything beyond the stuff promoted by the narrowcasting blogs.
Even where there are record shops (outside the central SF urban area) there's nothing like Tower Records anymore. It's too expensive to maintain stock of everything. And places with listening booths? Forget it.
I find this surmise quite prehistoric of you John. First of all, there are TONS of artists to inspect and investigate using the power of the Internet. Or even....Wait for it....YOUR FRIENDS!!!! Wowie, what a concept. Nearly every day either one of my co-workers or friends shows me new music I like that I have never heard of before. Then, you can buy their albums or singles or whatever online. Whether this is a physical medium or digital one...If you like it. There are tons of way to find new music, in any genre you prefer. This is 2018. The internet is your friend. You can find new music that you might like, nearly everywhere. Its insane to me that your scope is so limited to the place you live. As well, its obvious you have not checked out the OTHER mediums of Digital Audio -- Where new music is gaining headway. As well as old music that you have never heard of. The narrow vision of your second statement befuddles me. Why must you position this DJ into a square box? He stocks EVERY kind of music in his store. Because DJ's for Hip Hop are extremely cultured musicians and "dig" for music to sample. They know obscure records. They also know whats hot with each generation of crowds that attend their shows. They might even know about more music than you. Just because he is a Hip Hop producer, says absolutely nothing about how varied his tastes are, or the clients walking into his store. And just because all the Old Head Record shops are out of business, that says nothing about the new entrepreneurs of music and music purchasing. If one sits around on their hands, and just says "Fuck it, Spotify", they are bound to go out of business. You don't need listening stations anymore because nearly all music is available to check out online. Whether or not you think its worth buying, is the part of the business that no one seems to be able to figure out.
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jun 13, 2018 14:34:18 GMT -6
If only we were this concerned about all the good sounding music in the world. If you don't have an opinion leader of new music in your social circle, then get one. You have to admit it was cool when every city and town had D J's. This was their job- to know music and to know their listening audience, not something they did on the side- and the DJ's in Los Angeles were playing different music than the DJ's in Detroit and that went for every city and town in between north, south east, west. The music scene thrived, creating local and national jobs where people made the music business their career . The bands would talk to the DJ before the concert and he or she was often the person who introduced the shows There were national touring bands that came to my town weekly playing the 3,000 seat auditorium-often Fri and Sat shows of different bands- as well as the most successful bands that played the 10,000 seat basketball arena. In addition, there were regional touring cover bands in the nightclubs and local bands in the bars. There were so many people making money in the music business on so many levels and there were regional differences that spawned diversity of sound, style and attitude. It was a diverse, thriving, national meets local business model. For my town and most towns and cities, that's all gone now. Times change, but I am so glad I got to experience it. We have an entire generation of people who spend so much time in front of their screens and a lot of capital investment in keeping them there. It is what it is.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 13, 2018 14:35:06 GMT -6
How do I find these new artists? I know they're out there, but where? It's like looking for a black diamond in a swimming pool full of crude oil. Friends? Well, out here in lovely Fairfield the locals I associate with break down into pretty much two types - younger ones who primarily listen to various styles of commercial pop that I can't stand, and people around my own age who listern to various forms of music that I already know. When I was in The City, where there are a lot hipper, more artistically oriented people I'd have someone of interest suggested every few months, maybe. Even there, a LOT of people were primarily listening to legacy music or current pop icons. I'm including Hip-hop in the overall "pop" umbrella, as well as "modern" reggae.
It's depressing. It's even more depressing to me as an artist who plays music that doesn't really fit into any of the currently popular pigeonholes.
It used to be that there were local music rags that were primary vehicles for discovery, but the internet killed those dead and offered nothing to replace them because the internet does not do geographical localization well. When I was in The City I had an association with the "KUSF-in-Exile" group of former KUSF radio people who lost their station when UCSF sold the license and started an internet radio station. They were lucky to have 10 or 15 listeners at a time. It was a good source for free tickets to shows because there was almost no competition and quite a few venues would donate tickets to be able to say they support local music - which they would rarely, if ever, actually book. Problem with internet radio is that you can't listen in your car, where I do a lot of my listening.
You can't get internet in your car. It's illegal to drive with earbuds on, even if I did have internet on my phone, which I don't for security reasons. (Something I was very glad up when the current scandal about Chinese made cellphones broke. Mine is a ZTE.)
Out here in Fairfield I might as well be in the middle of the Gobi desert.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jun 13, 2018 14:38:17 GMT -6
It seems like there's an opportunity for someone to curate the haystack of released music for the needles.
Little Steven does this on Underground Garage, one of the few things I can listen to on Sirius. There must be someone whose opinion I could trust enough to check out, promoting worthy new music.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 13, 2018 14:46:13 GMT -6
It seems like there's an opportunity for someone to curate the haystack of released music for the needles. Little Steven does this on Underground Garage, one of the few things I can listen to on Sirius. There must be someone whose opinion I could trust enough to check out, promoting worthy new music. I wish my car could get Sirius.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jun 13, 2018 14:53:45 GMT -6
It seems like there's an opportunity for someone to curate the haystack of released music for the needles. Little Steven does this on Underground Garage, one of the few things I can listen to on Sirius. There must be someone whose opinion I could trust enough to check out, promoting worthy new music. I wish my car could get Sirius. My wife likes it, I don't that much, but you will hear a variety of stuff. I don't like music segregated by genre, even in a general sense. I want to hear Perry Farrell followed by Rosemary Clooney, followed by Manu DiBango, if you get my drift. That's one thing that Underground Garage manages a good part of the time. They mix it up. Sirius makes a radio you could retrofit, if you feel like ponying up for the monthly. I think Spotify and a data plan for your phone is a better bet.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2018 14:58:37 GMT -6
My biggest problem with the vast majority of music today is that it's emotionally shallow. Sure back in the day you had people crying about flames and break ups and so on, but it was done in an interesting way either musically or better still it was emotionally real, which is hard to describe except in contrast to what is obviously not. You had bubble gum music, and yes the Beatles wrote bad songs too, but it was easy to separate wheat from the chaff. Now people insist the chaff is the wheat. This is a new development, people equate everything and think that shallow pop music is just as valid as Beethoven, let alone good pop music. If there's anything smart (but really not that smart), people fall over themselves, like what happens at the Oscars every year. People think that Banksy is equal to Rembrandt. Singers mostly whine and you have producer driven consensus on ersatz emotional signals, like torch songs, which is just marketing to lowest common denominator. Or you have intricate electronic music, but messy arrangements and no emotional complexity because there are no words it's just about cool sounds or the lyrics are shit or it's an endless emotional pastiche that may have been interesting originally, like ambient music with "field recordings" and granular clouds. Or you get a lot of smoke and mirrors around what is essentially white people whining earnestly about their ennui > see Radiohead and most indie music. For most popular music today at least there are no interesting chord changes, i.e. emotional shifts. Compare anyone today with the Beatles in this area and they fail miserably. Songs now are one stupid idea over and over, which is ironic because my favorite songs tend to be one good idea with one good chord change for 2 minutes max and that's it. But that's too high a bar, apparently. Finally music takes itself way too seriously or not seriously enough. There is a lack of genuine humor, by which I mean self-awareness. Talking heads or Devo or Frank Black are good examples. I don't mean a shtick like John Misty, although that's better than nothing. Courtney Barnett or the Breeders are good examples of people playing today who get this. I could go on and on but the lack of interesting emotional content is the main thing. I mean look at the world today and most music is about nothing at all or if you're lucky it's actually about that feeling of having nothing to say because people have no life experience. Pathetic. This^^ It's "uncool" to be deep - at least in Country anymore. I mean, like people going "bo-ring!" Then you get the lecture on how it has to be "fun" or "something they can open the show with." Another issue is this: artists are writing most of their own stuff. And that's a double-edged sword. IF YOU'RE A WRITER - then that's awesome. But not everyone is a writer. As an artist (and I'm only speaking from my knowledge of the Country arena) , the chances of you having 10 of the best written songs in Nashville are slim to none...yet, labels reward it because ANY song can be produced to sound like a record. Any turd can be polished. The labels sign the artist and then want them to write because they participate in the revenue stream. Now, I'm not saying that talented artists shouldn't write all of their own stuff. Of course they should. But these labels are signing singers - and sometimes just lookers. Obviously, there are still great country artists that are signed - that doesn't pertain to everyone. But the name of the game isn't the music anymore, it's the product. It's imperative for the labels to not take chances - they need to sign an image that can sell and then participate and every revenue stream...the music is secondary most of the time.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jun 13, 2018 15:27:03 GMT -6
I can't listen to enough of the chart music now to see if there's anything worthy. I kinda like Ashley Craig's "Meet Me In the Middle," it's relatable as human emotion. I get it, and enjoy hearing it, even as the general idiom of today's pop doesn't really ring my bell.
John, I'd like to think with the right mindset, you could have written that lyric. Man I miss the lyrics Hal David used to write for women vocalists, but those days aren't coming back!
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 13, 2018 20:11:55 GMT -6
I think there is a ton of great music today. And I have it at my fingertips. Sorry to those of you who thinks everything made these days sucks. It doesn’t. You’re looking in the wrong spots.
Go dig on some Joe Henry or Milk Carton Kids, or the new Ry Cooder record or his son Joachim’s record. The new John Misty is pretty damn good even though I’m sure some will complain it’s for hipsters. Im sure the Punch Brothers will have another release coming soon. I’m With Her has 3 I’d the most talented females these days in one super group. They are great and fantastic performers and players. Go dig on any of the Artists that Chris Thile has guest on his Live From Here show. They throw YouTube vids up all the time.
It’s out there. Just go find it.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2018 22:14:33 GMT -6
I think there is a ton of great music today. And I have it at my fingertips. Sorry to those of you who thinks everything made these days sucks. It doesn’t. You’re looking in the wrong spots. Go dig on some Joe Henry or Milk Carton Kids, or the new Ry Cooder record or his son Joachim’s record. The new John Misty is pretty damn good even though I’m sure some will complain it’s for hipsters. Im sure the Punch Brothers will have another release coming soon. I’m With Her has 3 I’d the most talented females these days in one super group. They are great and fantastic performers and players. Go dig on any of the Artists that Chris Thile has guest on his Live From Here show. They throw YouTube vids up all the time. It’s out there. Just go find it. Again, I think people are referring to commercially successful, popular music. And I’m not sure anyone has suggested that there’s zero good music being made. While I love Ry Cooder and respect the hell out of Chris Thile, I wouldn’t think they fit in that category.
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on Jun 13, 2018 23:53:34 GMT -6
How do I find these new artists? I know they're out there, but where? It's like looking for a black diamond in a swimming pool full of crude oil. Friends? Well, out here in lovely Fairfield the locals I associate with break down into pretty much two types - younger ones who primarily listen to various styles of commercial pop that I can't stand, and people around my own age who listern to various forms of music that I already know. When I was in The City, where there are a lot hipper, more artistically oriented people I'd have someone of interest suggested every few months, maybe. Even there, a LOT of people were primarily listening to legacy music or current pop icons. I'm including Hip-hop in the overall "pop" umbrella, as well as "modern" reggae.
It's depressing. It's even more depressing to me as an artist who plays music that doesn't really fit into any of the currently popular pigeonholes.
It used to be that there were local music rags that were primary vehicles for discovery, but the internet killed those dead and offered nothing to replace them because the internet does not do geographical localization well. When I was in The City I had an association with the "KUSF-in-Exile" group of former KUSF radio people who lost their station when UCSF sold the license and started an internet radio station. They were lucky to have 10 or 15 listeners at a time. It was a good source for free tickets to shows because there was almost no competition and quite a few venues would donate tickets to be able to say they support local music - which they would rarely, if ever, actually book. Problem with internet radio is that you can't listen in your car, where I do a lot of my listening.
You can't get internet in your car. It's illegal to drive with earbuds on, even if I did have internet on my phone, which I don't for security reasons. (Something I was very glad up when the current scandal about Chinese made cellphones broke. Mine is a ZTE.)
Out here in Fairfield I might as well be in the middle of the Gobi desert.
My job has me constantly exposed to new music, but a couple of things I use regularly are; I cruise the Artist Bookings for different concert clubs around the country that I know will have a strong caliber of music; When I find a new artist I like, I start a Pandora station with their name to see what other artists are then populated into those playlists. Soundcloud with autoplay and related tags will do a good job for a robot. And as corny as it is, I use Shazam a lot, if I'm out and I hear a song anywhere that catches my attention I use the app to identify who it is. Austin City Limits, SXSW, Newport Folkfest, sometimes Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, Adhoc. And with the internet you have access to other musicians favorite playlists, here is Frank Ocean's : itunes.apple.com/gb/playlist/frank-oceans-favourite-songs/idpl.8a6797dbc1ab4d7e8aab9804184975f0?app=musicThere honestly is way more going on now for finding new music and exposing yourself to it than radio and the record labels ever provided. But that hasn't changed the fact that there is still only a finite amount of "great songs" written every couple of years or so.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 14, 2018 5:39:38 GMT -6
It seems like there's an opportunity for someone to curate the haystack of released music for the needles. Little Steven does this on Underground Garage, one of the few things I can listen to on Sirius. There must be someone whose opinion I could trust enough to check out, promoting worthy new music. God bless Mr. Van Zandt!! (Lento) and Genya Ravan (Goldie) They've been very good to me and some CDs/Bands I've produced.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jun 14, 2018 7:45:39 GMT -6
There will always be good music and talented people. And there will always be people who will make music regardless of compensation.
The problem for the average consumer right now I think is twofold. Music is a familiarity exercise - it is much harder to listen to unfamiliar music, takes more effort. So the average listener will always gravitate towards familiarity. This makes a big incentive for homogenized commercial music. And that becomes self-fulfilling. The more narrow “normal” becomes, the more dangerous it is to deviate.
The second is that if you want to get out of the pre-selected stuff and search on your own, right now the net is almost too wide. There is anything and everything on Spotify. And the barrier to entry is so low that there is amazing stuff next to horrible stuff - I mean that in ways from talent, lyrics, production qualify, performance, etc. For the average person this can be daunting.
It’s like going from having two items on a menu, steak or fish, to having every menu from every restaurant and wannabe chef, but absolutely no idea whether what you order is going to be amazing or made by some dude in his bathroom.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jun 14, 2018 8:38:54 GMT -6
Friends? What friends?
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 14, 2018 13:23:40 GMT -6
Narrowcasting should be the "word of the day"! (or maybe THEE "word of today")
Speaking of narrow, although my perspective is slimmer than the "regulars" here... On a local level, Ive been trying to "round the wagons" and get groups of singers/musicians together ala Big Pink, to help create new songs-along with innovative reworkings/covers of classic tunes.
My question may be highly rhetorical, but here goes...
Compared to 40 or 50 years ago, I get the impression there's much less of a community spirit. Singers and the other musicians seem to be less motivated to literally/figuratively to "compare notes" together.
Thoughts/comments?
Thanks, Chris
|
|
|
Post by drumhead57 on Jun 14, 2018 13:39:40 GMT -6
Add to my list of new musicians that don't suck: Jamie McLean
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 14, 2018 16:11:05 GMT -6
Add to my list of new musicians that don't suck: Jamie McLean His brother doesn’t suck either! (Carter)
|
|
|
Post by drumhead57 on Jun 14, 2018 18:48:25 GMT -6
Wow, yeah, I'll say. Quite impressive, and a NYC pit drummer as well. Thanks for the head's up jeremygillespie
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Jun 14, 2018 21:31:46 GMT -6
Narrowcasting should be the "word of the day"! (or maybe THEE "word of today") Speaking of narrow, although my perspective is slimmer than the "regulars" here... On a local level, Ive been trying to "round the wagons" and get groups of singers/musicians together ala Big Pink, to help create new songs-along with innovative reworkings/covers of classic tunes. My question may be highly rhetorical, but here goes... Compared to 40 or 50 years ago, I get the impression there's much less of a community spirit. Singers and the other musicians seem to be less motivated to literally/figuratively to "compare notes" together. Thoughts/comments? Thanks, Chris I think this probably depends on where you live and what your local scene is like. I'm in Durham / Chapel Hill / Carrboro (NC), and there's quite a good community spirit amongst musicians here, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 14, 2018 21:41:17 GMT -6
I really appreciate the comments regarding a shortage of emotional content in much of today's music. That's exactly what I hope will make the difference between my music and the songs made for the publishing machine.
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Jun 14, 2018 22:11:23 GMT -6
My biggest problem with the vast majority of music today is that it's emotionally shallow. Sure back in the day you had people crying about flames and break ups and so on, but it was done in an interesting way either musically or better still it was emotionally real, which is hard to describe except in contrast to what is obviously not. You had bubble gum music, and yes the Beatles wrote bad songs too, but it was easy to separate wheat from the chaff. Now people insist the chaff is the wheat. This is a new development, people equate everything and think that shallow pop music is just as valid as Beethoven, let alone good pop music. If there's anything smart (but really not that smart), people fall over themselves, like what happens at the Oscars every year. People think that Banksy is equal to Rembrandt. Singers mostly whine and you have producer driven consensus on ersatz emotional signals, like torch songs, which is just marketing to lowest common denominator. Or you have intricate electronic music, but messy arrangements and no emotional complexity because there are no words it's just about cool sounds or the lyrics are shit or it's an endless emotional pastiche that may have been interesting originally, like ambient music with "field recordings" and granular clouds. Or you get a lot of smoke and mirrors around what is essentially white people whining earnestly about their ennui > see Radiohead and most indie music. For most popular music today at least there are no interesting chord changes, i.e. emotional shifts. Compare anyone today with the Beatles in this area and they fail miserably. Songs now are one stupid idea over and over, which is ironic because my favorite songs tend to be one good idea with one good chord change for 2 minutes max and that's it. But that's too high a bar, apparently. Finally music takes itself way too seriously or not seriously enough. There is a lack of genuine humor, by which I mean self-awareness. Talking heads or Devo or Frank Black are good examples. I don't mean a shtick like John Misty, although that's better than nothing. Courtney Barnett or the Breeders are good examples of people playing today who get this. I could go on and on but the lack of interesting emotional content is the main thing. I mean look at the world today and most music is about nothing at all or if you're lucky it's actually about that feeling of having nothing to say because people have no life experience. Pathetic. This^^ It's "uncool" to be deep - at least in Country anymore. I mean, like people going "bo-ring!" Then you get the lecture on how it has to be "fun" or "something they can open the show with." Another issue is this: artists are writing most of their own stuff. And that's a double-edged sword. IF YOU'RE A WRITER - then that's awesome. But not everyone is a writer. As an artist (and I'm only speaking from my knowledge of the Country arena) , the chances of you having 10 of the best written songs in Nashville are slim to none...yet, labels reward it because ANY song can be produced to sound like a record. Any turd can be polished. The labels sign the artist and then want them to write because they participate in the revenue stream. Now, I'm not saying that talented artists shouldn't write all of their own stuff. Of course they should. But these labels are signing singers - and sometimes just lookers. Obviously, there are still great country artists that are signed - that doesn't pertain to everyone. But the name of the game isn't the music anymore, it's the product. It's imperative for the labels to not take chances - they need to sign an image that can sell and then participate and every revenue stream...the music is secondary most of the time. The "bro" country thing is obviously a boring thing now. Not that it should be a surprise. It was always boring. I guess I don't understand complaints about that being commonplace when the Nashville machine has made that their bread and butter for decades? Is it a surprise that there is an uphill battle to artistic freedom? Nashville Row is a machine. And that machine has produced a LOT of shit. There is great country music. And there is shit. The best country has been made in spite of, not because of, Nashville. Fuck romantic notions. The best country has been about fucking your romantic notions...
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Jun 14, 2018 22:48:43 GMT -6
I totally agree about the lack of deep, emotionally mature content in a great deal of "modern music." I think some of this has to do with how many young artists there are these days. I just think it's really hard to write deep emotional content in your early- to mid-20s. Obviously, there are some people who pull it off, but I think it's really hard to write good stuff until you've been knocked down by life a few times.
The biggest thing that struck me about "American Idol" from the very beginning was that I just didn't believe any of the artists when they sang.
Contrast that to Jason Isbell: I still cry almost every time I listen to "Elephant."
If I ever switch on a pop station in the car, I'm always amazed that every song is about sex. Now don't get me wrong, I like sex just as much as the next fella, but there's a whole lot more to life that I want to hear intelligent, honest songs written about.
|
|