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Post by M57 on Apr 24, 2018 5:14:00 GMT -6
What's up with Console 1? It's no longer available at Sweetwater ( Link) Is Console 2 around the corner?? EDIT: Looks like MKII is the current model. Is it reasonably friendly to my CPU, and can you re-organize its internal components? e.g. put the compression before EQ, etc? Like you said swurveman , if the only thing you use on the Slate Bundle is the VTM, there's a hell of a lot of redundancy between the two. Now that I'm looking at the features of the Console 1, I remember that it's with the Slate Bundle that I'm seeing all the redundancy, not the X-Touch.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 24, 2018 7:31:32 GMT -6
Having an Apollo, I've wondered what a Console MK II would change in my workflow. I haven't looked into it yet.
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 24, 2018 14:55:42 GMT -6
Now that I'm looking at the features of the Console 1, I remember that it's with the Slate Bundle that I'm seeing all the redundancy, not the X-Touch. Yes, there is a lot of overlap, but to me, Console 1 is the cure to my Slate problems! It all comes down to trusting the product and using it to its fullest. Every time I opened the Slate rack I wasted a lot of time thinking of what EQ to use, which of the gazillion 1176 is right for this track, what kind of saturation, what console emulation, etc. Now, I simply load Console 1 on all tracks and I'm done. All my "gear" choices are made for me, I just need to work on the tracks. I have EQ, console drive, compressor, noise gate, transient designer (which I don't love but it can be useful) all on a fantastic hardware controller. I also have the British Class 1 Console (Neve) which I sometimes use, but I could totally live without it. And I did get their FET Compressor (1176 emu), which can be loaded on the channel strip, but I have yet to use it. On the rare occasion when a track needs something else, like maybe a specific compressor flavor, or some very surgical EQ, I'll load it up. However, as a matter of principle, I try to do everything I can using Console 1, same as I would if I had a real SSL console in front of me. Note that my mixing setup is hybrid and I run a few pieces of analog gear as well. To sum it up: Less thinking about which tools to use, less tinkering with plugins, more mixing, great sound!
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Post by Guitar on Apr 24, 2018 16:35:02 GMT -6
That's a good way to work, for sure. On my most recent album release I even did a few tracks of mastering with Reaper's stock plugin EQ. Sliders and stuff, not even a fancy GUI. I was like, "What the hell." But it worked, and people said it sounds good, so I'm fine.
I don't have Console 1 yet but it's something I'd be glad to add at any time, given the workflow that I like. Less headscratching and all that. I am also not a huge fan of the Slate mix rack setup. It seems to inspire overprocessing in general.
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Post by M57 on Apr 24, 2018 17:05:53 GMT -6
Now that I'm looking at the features of the Console 1, I remember that it's with the Slate Bundle that I'm seeing all the redundancy, not the X-Touch. >> To sum it up: Less thinking about which tools to use, less tinkering with plugins, more mixing, great sound! << stormymondays You're making a really strong argument here, especially considering that I'm a one-man singer/songwriter operation. Here are a couple of thoughts that went through my head as I read your comments.. Yes, the Slate Bundle offers a mind-numbingly endless number of possibilities, which in turn invites over-thinking and over-processing etc, but on the flip-side of the same argument once I find the right organization for a virtual rack, it's just a matter of saving - and when I need to get creative, options are there. I'd hate to give up the Slate stuff I have loaded on my previous projects if I ever wanted to go back and tweak them. I'd probably have to render them all if I were to give up my Slate subscription, but I use Eiosis, and I am a fan of Slate's mastering comps and reverb - and I do love to be able to use some of those specialty plugs like Revival on occasion. After having written the above, I'm realizing that if I were to pick up C1, I would probably keep my Slate subscription. Which is pretty sad when you consider the title of the thread and that I'm the OP. I have to admit, I'm feeling seduced by the C1 interface, but other than how it might improve my workflow, it doesn't really offer me anything I don't already have. When I originally decided to go with the Slate subscription, the C1 was an option that I considered. I wonder if I would make the same choice now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 1:28:41 GMT -6
Very few for mastering. One EQ, one limiter, one dither and a couple of meters.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 25, 2018 3:59:14 GMT -6
I have literally hundreds of plugins.
But oddly I find (maybe because I have a good memory?) I have got to know the different character of each plugin and I can remember those qualities so that when I mix I find myself thinking "oh this compressor X or EQ Y will work well here" and then it takes 1 second to text search for it in Cubase Pro 9.
I just love having all the options and getting to know all the little characters of each plugin, I kinda pride myself on holding this library of sounds in my head and being able to call up a plugin from memory at the mix stage.
I have come to the conclusion I will probably never have enough plugins :-)
Although my wallet tells me I definitely already have enough plugins!
Thing is I'm tempted by the special on Waves Renaissance Maxx as those compressor have a unique character even over my UAD MK2 compressors .... they're all a little bit different in a good way.
When I'm mastering I only use three plugins though.
DMG Equilibrium Sonoris Mastering Compressor (relatively expensive but really fantastic) TC Brickwall Limiter (still my all time favorite even after all these years)
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 25, 2018 4:13:53 GMT -6
M57 I think you overthink it. I walked the walk you walk now and I say form my expereince. Save yourself some time and money and buy step by step a few pieces of hardware, and sell plugs you dont touch anymore. I sold all my UAD stuff. It makes your live much easier. You dont have to manage tomany windows on your screen, and IMO it sounds more organic too. For example drbill inspired me to sell my desk and instead of this mixing into the VLA2 Valve-AMP-Stage. Bill was right, with a little bit of Slate VCC and the VLA it sounded very similar to what I was known form the console. This called for a complete studio reconsruction. Now I use all the hardware as real time plug in with Logic X. Recall is easy as hell. my 2 cents
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 25, 2018 8:00:07 GMT -6
mrholmes, when you said "realtime plug-in", can you give more details. You have it set up that instead of say.. an LA2A plug-in, you're going out to a hardware compressor and back with no latency?
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 25, 2018 9:24:12 GMT -6
mrholmes, when you said "realtime plug-in", can you give more details. You have it set up that instead of say.. an LA2A plug-in, you're going out to a hardware compressor and back with no latency? Jupp in Mix-Mode you can use Logics I/O plug ins for real time hardware, it compensates latency.
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Post by drbill on Apr 25, 2018 10:10:48 GMT -6
Doesn't everyone do that?? I could never (happily) go back.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 25, 2018 11:58:59 GMT -6
I had to sell all my outboard, so I can't try it until I get my home studio back to normal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 14:32:44 GMT -6
As of Console... I use Mixbus with the US-2400 and have all the top rotary encoders that normally are trims as the selected channels channelstrip controls. The hands-on feeling of a good digital console comes up, together with the 1st class analog emulation you do never want to go back to do everything with mouse or so-so controllers. I am pretty sure, users of Console make similar experiences. I guess using console with something like Mackie Control or other fader controller gives the same workflow. I love this, coming from analog consoles. Speeds up everything - a lot.
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Post by M57 on Apr 25, 2018 17:29:56 GMT -6
M57 I think you overthink it. I walked the walk you walk now and I say form my expereince. Save yourself some time and money and buy step by step a few pieces of hardware, and sell plugs you dont touch anymore. I sold all my UAD stuff. It makes your live much easier. You dont have to manage tomany windows on your screen, and IMO it sounds more organic too. For example drbill inspired me to sell my desk and instead of this mixing into the VLA2 Valve-AMP-Stage. Bill was right, with a little bit of Slate VCC and the VLA it sounded very similar to what I was known form the console. This called for a complete studio reconsruction. Now I use all the hardware as real time plug in with Logic X. Recall is easy as hell. my 2 cents The good news is, I haven't really invested that much money in plug-ins: I've got MJUC, soothe and maybe a half dozen waves plugs that I spent $29 on as they went on sale, and maybe one other plug that I can't think of. I have a subscription for the Slate Bundle, which technically I don't own. So really, I'm not monetarily "invested" in plug-ins at all. That said, for me to go the I/O hybrid route with Logic, I'd need to "invest" pretty heavily in some outboard gear. Minimally, I'd want another WA-2A, or better, a stereo buss compressor and an EQ or two. When I consider the subscription price of the Slate, I'm saving a TON of money staying ITB. That said, I'll probably try bouncing some tracks through some of my outboard gear when I get the chance this summer. Maybe get a little help from adamjbrass getting that damn I/O plug to play nice with my gear and interface. ..and if that makes me smile, then I'm really in trouble.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 25, 2018 20:32:45 GMT -6
I've got a ton of investment in plugs, but if they really aren't doing something I like and can use easily, I stop using them anyway. Most Waves plugs are useless to me. The L2 and L3 are good though, and some of the Renaissance stuff is OK. The Apple EQ's sound better than any Waves EQ I've heard.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 26, 2018 3:04:05 GMT -6
I've got a ton of investment in plugs, but if they really aren't doing something I like and can use easily, I stop using them anyway. Most Waves plugs are useless to me. The L2 and L3 are good though, and some of the Renaissance stuff is OK. The Apple EQ's sound better than any Waves EQ I've heard. Well EQs in Logic always have been great, even 12 years ago. IMO it is not too much about what I use, as long a minimum is given. A few microphones and a nice mic pre. I need some realtime hardware on key elements: LV/ Snare and OH / Kick Drum / BS / Guitars etc. I stopped using any high end hardware for it because I don’t want to bind much cash in the studio. I use only 16 I/Os. If I need more I print hardware. To my ears it just sounds better, even if I don’t own a top notch AD. To my workflow it is lesser stress because a million plug in windows are too much information for my ADD brain. Go and get a used ART Pro VLA2 and a used - but working -Behringer ADA 1000. Hardwire them to your interface and start over again. If you like get a patch bay later, it makes live much easier if you want to change I/Os.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 26, 2018 9:07:47 GMT -6
Thanks Mrholmes. How does the ART VLA2 sound compared to the other brands like Warm, Stam, etc. ?
I have the UAD Apollo. Do you think that Behringer A/D sounds better?
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 26, 2018 10:04:26 GMT -6
Thanks Mrholmes. How does the ART VLA2 sound compared to the other brands like Warm, Stam, etc. ? I have the UAD Apollo. Do you think that Behringer A/D sounds better? I use the the B. ADA 8000 its by far not the best; but also not an awfull sounding AD - DA The ART Pro VLA2 is a hybrid between tubes SS technology. I use it 99% of the time with compression set off on the mixbus mixing into its tube makup amp. Sounds clean wide and open, shapes off transients and rounds the top end, low ends gets three dimensional. Cheers Holmes
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 26, 2018 11:18:18 GMT -6
Maybe get a little help from adamjbrass getting that damn I/O plug to play nice with my gear and interface. ..and if that makes me smile, then I'm really in trouble. M57 I forget why we could not get it going? Maybe it was a cable thing? Or figuring out the Focusrite software matrix? Probably both. I remember we didn't allocate much time to this. It should work well for you. Just jacking in from the back of the interface with a few pieces. I think, its always better to commit on the front end when thinking about this sorta thing. Less conversion stages. But if you are allowing some space to add analog gear later during mix down, why not? Could be pretty cool. It won't make you re-think things too much. Just get some cool gear in the fray. I use this workflow at my place, but I only use 2-3 channels at most. Sometimes I don't use any and stick with plugs.
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Post by M57 on Apr 26, 2018 11:30:38 GMT -6
Maybe get a little help from adamjbrass getting that damn I/O plug to play nice with my gear and interface. ..and if that makes me smile, then I'm really in trouble. M57 I forget why we could not get it going? Maybe it was a cable thing? Or figuring out the Focusrite software matrix? Probably both. I remember we didn't allocate much time to this. It should work well for you. Just jacking in from the back of the interface with a few pieces. I think, its always better to commit on the front end when thinking about this sorta thing. Less conversion stages. But if you are allowing some space to add analog gear later during mix down, why not? Could be pretty cool. It won't make you re-think things too much. Just get some cool gear in the fray. I use this workflow at my place, but I only use 2-3 channels at most. Sometimes I don't use any and stick with plugs. Yeah, that's pretty much as much as I'd ever want to do. I think we spent time working on setting proper monitor mixes, and not really the I/O chain for gear. We had a lot of different things on our plate that day. I'm sure we'll have to dig a little deeper in the Focusrite to get things working.
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 26, 2018 11:41:43 GMT -6
I think one of the strengths of Softube’s Console 1 is that it helps you to use less plugins. I’m always looking for ways to use less! Learning what you have inside out really pays off in the end... This thought is a huge deal for me, too. Console 1 has really overhauled how I'm working. I wanted to spend less time thinking about plugins and less time using a mouse. I bought Console 1. It's worked well! Long post alert! A couple questions I wanted to answer but I'm not able to add quotes on right now: 1. Can the processing be re-ordered? Yes. Shape (transient designer), EQ, and Compression can be rearranged. Drive and character is on the output of the channel strip so it can't be put somewhere else. 2. Processing heavy? Nope. I use it on most of my tracks (I don't use it on mics that are summed together ITB, I just use it on the channel they're summed to - for example C1 isn't on my 57 or Fathead on the same guitar amp but it's on the ElectricGuitar1 bus/folder/group if that makes sense). 3. Will it replace a bunch of stuff you already own? It won't replace it all but it will change how often and how intentionally you use all of it. I love the Kush Audio plugins. I use them all a little less now but in a more pointed and specific way. I'm not asking Electra on my snare to boost some top end, carve some mids, add some thump to the snare fundamental, and be my hpf. I'm only asking it for the special way Electra handles the low end and the invisible way it works in the mids. So I'm using it only at those times. I'm not asking for UBK-1 to help shape the overall attack of a sound - I've already sorted that out a bit with the C1 compressor and transient shaper - I'm just using it for the gush/squish/movement thing it does well. 3 1/2. All that said in #3, I don't use most of my EQ plugins or any of my clean or snappy-only compressor plugins any more. Waves SSL is not doing anything. Focusrite EQs aren't doing anything (though the two Focusrite compressors do a specific thing so they see some use). I'm not using a few of my saturation plugs anymore (just my Kush Omega plugs are left). JST Transify is still in rotation (it's multiband and awesome) but not any other transient designers/shapers. JST Clip is still around (because heavy drums love clipping) but it's not exactly something that's handled by C1 anyway. I'm still using Boz's Gatey Watey and Reaper's ReaGate for most gating duty (they end up first in the chain when I use 'em) - they're just super good at those things in a way C1's default gate isn't. Maybe one of the other C1 gates are better. 4. How do I use it? I'm using C1 in Reaper. It's pretty much fully integrated with Reaper so you can control Reaper's channel fader level, pan on the Reaper channel - not just the internal C1 pan - the first few sends on the channel in Reaper, solo (following my solo safes and defeats), mute, etc.. It's slick and allows me to work on pulling the mix together in a hands-on and ears-engaged way. Every channel getting C1 gets an instance of ReaEQ, then Console 1, and then possibly some Kush Omega saturation (on rare occasions the Kush Omega will go at the front of the chain to let the saturation do its thing there). I use C1 to get the mix together without having to look too much at the screen, broad brush strokes on everything to get the overall tonality sorted out. ReaEq gets turned on if I need some more frequency bands and/or if there are some whistle/ringing frequencies or notching that needs to happen. Does it need to be dirtied up more? Kush Omega saturation. From there, what I need is much more apparent to me. I spend less time going "what is it this needs?" Guitars need some more EQ to fit around the vocal? Kush Electra. Bass needs some limiting in the low end and a parallel distortion? Kush UBK-1. Vocals need more tone shaping and a more subtle saturation? Kush Hammer. Drum bus needs some scoop and some pumping? Boz +10db channel strip. Rhodes need to be dirtied and wrangled into dynamic submission? Kush Novatron. I'm using my other plugins for their character a lot more and using Console 1 as...wait for it...the mixing console. I get the sounds as far as I feel I can reasonably get 'em with Console 1 and then use specific specialized plugins for the things that they do especially well. It's been a huge improvement in my workflow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 20:58:32 GMT -6
Btw., like mrholmes, i use ADA8000s. I also have an old Mytek, but need more than 8 ch. to track my band in the rehearsal room. And these units came handy, the integrated pre is - ok - not more not less.when used as line in, it is just a pad, so the pre is engaged all the time. It all-in-all is a much better unit, than anyone might expect at it's price point. Not spectatcular, not fancy, but completely usable. And since the follower ADA8200 is out, the old units are easy to get on the used market. Just bought 2 more, so i have 16 ch. 96kHz (or 32 in 48kHz), btw., the external clocking to 96kHz is an undocumented feature that wiz made me aware of in this forum. The used price is like 12 bucks per i/o loop with micpre. hard to beat that.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 27, 2018 1:22:41 GMT -6
Btw., like mrholmes, i use ADA8000s. I also have an old Mytek, but need more than 8 ch. to track my band in the rehearsal room. And these units came handy, the integrated pre is - ok - not more not less.when used as line in, it is just a pad, so the pre is engaged all the time. It all-in-all is a much better unit, than anyone might expect at it's price point. Not spectatcular, not fancy, but completely usable. And since the follower ADA8200 is out, the old units are easy to get on the used market. Just bought 2 more, so i have 16 ch. 96kHz (or 32 in 48kHz), btw., the external clocking to 96kHz is an undocumented feature that wiz made me aware of in this forum. The used price is like 12 bucks per i/o loop with micpre. hard to beat that. Yuppp the new one has better noise specs. The old one ads hf noise, but no big deal tape noise was more obvious...
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