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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 16, 2018 15:50:04 GMT -6
Im a "one of everything good" kinda guy. I don't need 10 different types of each processor. One decent thing from all. EQ/Comp/Delay/Verb etc. I use the same shit every session.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 16, 2018 17:46:29 GMT -6
You don’t need to be a pro studio to have some “essential” outboard. A tube opto and FET compressor are not terribly expensive. A handful or hardware EQs aren’t bad either. From experience, it’s a lot more fun and intuitive to work on hardware. You probably have the IO, so patching should be pretty easy. Make your own 19” rack - if you have a circular saw you can do this in a Saturday afternoon from 3/4” plywood, some screws, and rack rails from amazon - and still have time for a beer or two. A good buddy of mine gave me great advice: buying new gear is risky, especially for new engineers, because you don’t end up learning how to use what you have. The skilled guys get nuance out of their tools. Beginners try to buy tools to get nuance. Hey matt@IAA I'm pretty happy with the outboard gear I have. I have a decent 2A and 76, I've got some nice pres. I've got more than enough 19" rack-space so I don't really need to do any building there, though I'm down to one 500 space left with my little Heritage OST-4. The only thing I don't have are outboard EQs. But really, as a Singer-Songwriter, I'm really looking to minimize the engineering part of things while recording. I need to focus on the performance, not the recording. Your buddy's advice is well-taken - I can confirm its essence. The process of finding the vocal chain that I use now hasn't been the most efficient, despite the significant amount of research I did - and I don't doubt that it can be improved upon at the same price-point, but I just don't have the kind of experience with mic lockers that pros have. If I were to consider more of a hybrid set-up, I can just see myself investing in a first or second round of gear that just doesn't deliver exactly what I want. ..and that's another really nice thing about plugs. The upfront cost is a fraction of what RL gear costs. Could always search for a mix engineer you like to work with who has invested in that kind of gear and pay him/her to mix your stuff. No need for you to go all out on gear if you're just a singer/songwriter. Let someone that is a gear nut and loves mixing mix your music so you can just focus on making good music. That is something I think people are afraid of doing these days. They want to do it all themselves. Cost more? Sure. But I bet the result is better.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 16, 2018 19:27:33 GMT -6
I've been reducing plug-ins the more I record and mix. I do like the UAD ATR-140, and it's on every mix I've ever done. I use a few compressor plug-ins like CLA 1176 and UAD's API2500, but would rather just have a Stam SA2A if I could afford one. It's getting close to not needing anything else other than Apple's freebies. I like Soundtoys Little Plate reverb and Microshift on some things.
I could basically do everything I need with UAD's ATR-140, Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven reverb, Waves L3, and one or two good compressor plugs. I liked using compressor plugs gently on occasion, even when I used hardware compressors to track. Comnsidering all you get with Logic, with the new Pultec, Neve and API style EQ's, we''re pretty well set.
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Post by matt@IAA on Apr 16, 2018 22:28:06 GMT -6
You don’t need to be a pro studio to have some “essential” outboard. A tube opto and FET compressor are not terribly expensive. A handful or hardware EQs aren’t bad either. From experience, it’s a lot more fun and intuitive to work on hardware. You probably have the IO, so patching should be pretty easy. Make your own 19” rack - if you have a circular saw you can do this in a Saturday afternoon from 3/4” plywood, some screws, and rack rails from amazon - and still have time for a beer or two. A good buddy of mine gave me great advice: buying new gear is risky, especially for new engineers, because you don’t end up learning how to use what you have. The skilled guys get nuance out of their tools. Beginners try to buy tools to get nuance. Hey matt@IAA I'm pretty happy with the outboard gear I have. I have a decent 2A and 76, I've got some nice pres. I've got more than enough 19" rack-space so I don't really need to do any building there, though I'm down to one 500 space left with my little Heritage OST-4. The only thing I don't have are outboard EQs. But really, as a Singer-Songwriter, I'm really looking to minimize the engineering part of things while recording. I need to focus on the performance, not the recording. Your buddy's advice is well-taken - I can confirm its essence. The process of finding the vocal chain that I use now hasn't been the most efficient, despite the significant amount of research I did - and I don't doubt that it can be improved upon at the same price-point, but I just don't have the kind of experience with mic lockers that pros have. If I were to consider more of a hybrid set-up, I can just see myself investing in a first or second round of gear that just doesn't deliver exactly what I want. ..and that's another really nice thing about plugs. The upfront cost is a fraction of what RL gear costs. Man, sounds like you have enough to be judicious. That’s a nice place to be. I don’t like plugins, I really don’t like buying them. So I want to build / buy stuff I’ll use. But for me (I’m a hobbyist with a bigger problem than you - I am not much of a singer or songwriter) having the crap is half the fun.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 16, 2018 22:31:23 GMT -6
I think choice is the enemy of creativity. The more choices you have the more you spend you're time "choosing" things instead of "doing" things. I've been spending lots of time carefully auditioning plugins to find what works best for me and then calling it done. Basically I use 2-3 of every type of plugin: Eq/Comp/verb/delay/saturation.
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Post by lcr on Apr 17, 2018 6:04:03 GMT -6
The answer is 7,489. This is the perfect quantity of plug-ins. This includes mono, dual mono, mono to stereo.
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Post by mcirish on Apr 17, 2018 14:15:17 GMT -6
My two cents on this. I have a ton of plugins. Far more than I need. I keep getting new ones that I like the workflow of better or I like the sound. When I started doing hard disk recording in the 90's, plugins were absolutely horrible. Slowly over the years, they have come into their own. Do all emulations sound exactly like their hardware counterparts? No, of course not. But does it do something you like? I have a modest studio for tracking the projects my band does. We've released five albums and a handful of singles in the last few years. Having plugins that cover all the bases is critical in my setting. I don't track with EQ or compression anymore. It's simply: Mic - Preamp - Interface - Computer. I don't feel hampered in any way by this workflow. When I would track with eq and compression, I ended up wanting something slightly more (or different) during the final mix anyway. I'd say out of the hundreds of plugins I own, I really use 20 on a daily basis and the others are for special purposes when I want a different flavor. It's all about workflow to me. I like plugins that do one thing very well without alot of extra clutter. The DMG plugins are great but I tend to not use them much because getting results is not quick. I also stopped using EQs that have frequency displays. I end up "looking" at the sound more than "listening". I think it's a great time to be in the box. Of course, I still keep buying mics and preamps, but that is an addiction... I have an excuse. :-)
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 17, 2018 14:37:21 GMT -6
The answer is 7,489. This is the perfect quantity of plug-ins. This includes mono, dual mono, mono to stereo. You are wrong, its 7,488.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 17, 2018 14:42:05 GMT -6
No it's either 69, 420, or 666. Sorry but those are the only acceptable numbers of plugins to own. Otherwise your music will be laughed at by clowns.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 17, 2018 15:06:53 GMT -6
What about 6500?
Or 25 to 6 to 4?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 17, 2018 15:09:50 GMT -6
I just helped a friend mix a track using the new Logic reverb, it sounds really good. With my album finished, I don't really need the Relab XL480 much anymore. The Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven is my #1 reverb now.
I wonder how much I could get if I sold the Relab, it cost $400 originally.
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Post by popmann on Apr 17, 2018 15:42:59 GMT -6
I just helped a friend mix a track using the new Logic reverb, it sounds really good. With my album finished, I don't really need the Relab XL480 much anymore. The Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven is my #1 reverb now. I wonder how much I could get if I sold the Relab, it cost $400 originally. I'd venture that either you're not legally allowed to sell it....OR....you'll likely get a solid $30 after paying iLok transfer fees. ....which is just what I've found, and why I have a whole lot of plug ins I don't really use much if at all. For such little return, I just keep them "in case". Cubase let's me hide them from the drop down. I try to keep as much hidden as I can.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 17, 2018 15:49:39 GMT -6
Just checked, and the Relab complete is $299. I'm not completely sure I'd sell it yet, but if I could get say.. 50%, maybe I would use that to offset some other purchase. I'll have to look at the ilok transfer fee too. I've never sold a plug, and wasn't sure there even was a transfer fee. What a crock. If there's a transfer fee, it shouldn't be more than $10. It's all digital and doesn't require a human hand once it's been set up. I can dig that companies need to make a profit, but that seems like gouging. I've always hated iLok, and that's one more reason to continue that tradition.
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Post by m03 on Apr 17, 2018 16:01:02 GMT -6
I just helped a friend mix a track using the new Logic reverb, it sounds really good. With my album finished, I don't really need the Relab XL480 much anymore. The Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven is my #1 reverb now. I wonder how much I could get if I sold the Relab, it cost $400 originally. I'd venture that either you're not legally allowed to sell it....OR....you'll likely get a solid $30 after paying iLok transfer fees. I've seen listings for other Relab plugins on KVR, so I assume they're transferrable. IIRC, iLok transfer fees are ~$25 per item.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 17, 2018 20:10:01 GMT -6
Thank m03 !
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 18, 2018 7:24:16 GMT -6
I dont understand the problem at all. Whats so hard to go hybrid? There is hardware in the market cheaper than some plug ins.
The ART Pro VLA2 for example a good ss/tube opto compressor. Was 150 bucks used at eBay for me.
For gods sake once again the fucking Behringer MDX 1000 sounds fantastic on snares and e-guitar @ eBay 30 bucks.
SSL G 4k compresor by gyraf often people pop up who build them for pure fun and they just want thier investment in parts back. Mine was 300 bucks.
The Fredenstein FET is just 200 bucks new.....
In my book even the cheaper real gear takes care for useing lesser plug ins it also helps in making the right choices when demoing plugs....hardware recalibrates the ear of those who never had the joy to use real gear.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 18, 2018 11:58:08 GMT -6
I dont understand the problem at all. Whats so hard to go hybrid? There is hardware in the market cheaper than some plug ins. The ART Pro VLA2 for example a good ss/tube opto compressor. Was 150 bucks used at eBay for me. For gods sake once again the fucking Behringer MDX 1000 sounds fantastic on snares and e-guitar @ eBay 30 bucks. SSL G 4k compresor by gyraf often people pop up who build them for pure fun and they just want thier investment in parts back. Mine was 300 bucks. The Fredenstein FET is just 200 bucks new..... In my book even the cheaper real gear takes care for useing lesser plug ins it also helps in making the right choices when demoing plugs....hardware recalibrates the ear of those who never had the joy to use real gear. Sure. And yet some can churn out world class mixes with plugins. Who’s to tell them they need a DBX 160A to do it “right.” Not me.
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Post by gouge on Apr 18, 2018 13:56:47 GMT -6
Yeah but the question was how many are needed And the answer is still none. You dont need any hardware either.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 18, 2018 14:17:29 GMT -6
I actually think it’s worth removing unused plugins just to unclutter the drop down menu. I especially hate going to a studio with UAD that doesn’t have their unlicensed stuff suppressed.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 18, 2018 14:33:46 GMT -6
I actually think it’s worth removing unused plugins just to unclutter the drop down menu. I especially hate going to a studio with UAD that doesn’t have their unlicensed stuff suppressed. Holy crap I hate that.
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Post by c0rtland on Apr 18, 2018 20:01:27 GMT -6
I read in a tape op once larry said that elliott smith made his first 3 records with gear that most of us would laugh at then throw away. Shows to go ya. if my recordings sound like puppy puke the only fault is my own.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 21:10:02 GMT -6
Sure. And yet some can churn out world class mixes with plugins. Who’s to tell them they need a DBX 160A to do it “right.” Not me. That's completely subjective though, what's the definition "of world class mix" and who exactly is doing it? Because 9/10 times the mastering process in semi-recent years has squished out any semblance of dynamics whilst introducing a nice dollop of horrible distortion. So in that case we don't know if the mix was actually any good whether it be ITB or OTB.. Personally I've always struggled with an all ITB chain, never got my stuff sounding right but hybrid seems to work for me.. It's not about having lots of gear, it's about specific choice pieces that gets the results you're looking for... I personally like the NI / Softube / Lexicon plugs, then I have a select few pieces of hardware (DBX 676's, DBX 162SL's, Manley stuff, Soundcraft mixer).. A while back I kept buying random plugs / HW based on recommendations and in most cases returning them, some of them sounded no better if not worse than the plugs and vice versa which ended up in a lot of returns.. Recently I spent time demo'ing and setting up a specific end to end chain that works together.. With what I have now it will be 100% me if I can't produce the goods..! After a fair few years of getting it wrong, my advice is always buy right / buy once.. I might buy the odd piece here or there but I won't ever "upgrade" again.!
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 18, 2018 21:31:10 GMT -6
I read in a tape op once larry said that elliott smith made his first 3 records with gear that most of us would laugh at then throw away. Shows to go ya. if my recordings sound like puppy puke the only fault is my own. very true. I mean Daft Punk used an Alessis 3630 for their bus compressor for their first two albums. Often I think its the limitations that brings out the art.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 18, 2018 23:12:08 GMT -6
I dont understand the problem at all. Whats so hard to go hybrid? There is hardware in the market cheaper than some plug ins. The ART Pro VLA2 for example a good ss/tube opto compressor. Was 150 bucks used at eBay for me. For gods sake once again the fucking Behringer MDX 1000 sounds fantastic on snares and e-guitar @ eBay 30 bucks. SSL G 4k compresor by gyraf often people pop up who build them for pure fun and they just want thier investment in parts back. Mine was 300 bucks. The Fredenstein FET is just 200 bucks new..... In my book even the cheaper real gear takes care for useing lesser plug ins it also helps in making the right choices when demoing plugs....hardware recalibrates the ear of those who never had the joy to use real gear. Sure. And yet some can churn out world class mixes with plugins. Who’s to tell them they need a DBX 160A to do it “right.” Not me. In my experience the all ITB mix guys just tell us 50% of the story. Most of the time the files they mix have seen hardware in tracking, This makes a big difference when mixing ITB. Try the same with files which just have seen the preamp and you will have a hard time to get a three dimensional mix ITB.
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Post by gouge on Apr 19, 2018 6:19:31 GMT -6
Sure. And yet some can churn out world class mixes with plugins. Who’s to tell them they need a DBX 160A to do it “right.” Not me. In my experience the all ITB mix guys just tell us 50% of the story. Most of the time the files they mix have seen hardware in tracking, This makes a big difference when mixing ITB. Try the same with files which just have seen the preamp and you will have a hard time to get a three dimensional mix ITB. what about miles davis' kind of blue.
just mics and preamps.
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