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Post by jeromemason on Mar 30, 2018 2:10:04 GMT -6
A couple of my producer and mixer colleague’s and I are talking about the inevitable upgrade to a new rig, but I just can’t do the Trash can MacPro or the iMac Pro, it’s just too crazy expensive!
But, I came across a post on some site about turning a custom built machine into solidly running Mac OS host. I did some digging and priced out what I’d call an absolute Monster machine from Amazon and it came out to around $1,400. To even get near that custom machine’s performance and specs, an Apple equivalent was over $6,500.
So, I’d love to know if anyone is successfully doing this and exactly how solid does it run and can anyone point me to the real deal instructions on doing this. One of my colleagues is needing to do this in the next 2 weeks, if I can get some solid info, save him $5k, well that would make me feel reallly good as he had been one of the guys that has fed me mix jobs since I got going in town. Plus, I’m going to have to do this in the next 6 months too.
Thanks!!
Jerome Mason
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 30, 2018 5:43:17 GMT -6
A couple of my producer and mixer colleague’s and I are talking about the inevitable upgrade to a new rig, but I just can’t do the Trash can MacPro or the iMac Pro, it’s just too crazy expensive! But, I came across a post on some site about turning a custom built machine into solidly running Mac OS host. I did some digging and priced out what I’d call an absolute Monster machine from Amazon and it came out to around $1,400. To even get near that custom machine’s performance and specs, an Apple equivalent was over $6,500. So, I’d love to know if anyone is successfully doing this and exactly how solid does it run and can anyone point me to the real deal instructions on doing this. One of my colleagues is needing to do this in the next 2 weeks, if I can get some solid info, save him $5k, well that would make me feel reallly good as he had been one of the guys that has fed me mix jobs since I got going in town. Plus, I’m going to have to do this in the next 6 months too. Thanks!! Jerome Mason I built one some years ago with the same mindset. Have a powerful Mac at a fraction of the price. I wouldn’t do it again. If you build one for fun, that’s one thing. But if you’re building a machine that you depend on for stability and reliability, you should really think carefully about how much that’s worth to you. Especially if things go wrong. There is no support line to get your issues resolved. Every time I had weirdness going on with my system, it’s just one more (huge) variable to consider when troubleshooting. For me, it’s not worth it anymore. I need the stability. Why not look at used 2015-2017 iMacs? That’s probably what I’m going to do when I need a new computer.
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Post by kilroyrock on Mar 30, 2018 6:49:43 GMT -6
I run windows due to the cheapness of the hardware to support it, but people have used the gigabyte boards to create their hackintoshes, as they have thunderbolt support. I run a focusrite pre8x (thunderbolt) from a gigabyte x99 motherboard using their m.2 adapter board. the new ones are even more compatible. Be wary about buying your own parts, if you don't know the makers. ASUS is reliable, gigabyte is reliable.. 100-200 for a motherboard is not outrageous. There are also different types of ram - make sure your ram is compatible with the motherboard you are looking to buy. i use www.pricewatch.com to search through little shops, it's a computer store aggregator. New egg is also good. I never buy computer stuff from amazon.. What are the specs you are seeing? For reference: www.gigabyte.com/mb/thunderbolt3/overview
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 30, 2018 7:34:51 GMT -6
That’s another consideration with Hackintosh builds. Only certain hardware is compatible. And that might change with every OS version. Speaking of OS, every system update breaks the hack, and you’ll need to tweak things again, with who knows how many bugs. That was a major PITA, especially if you’re after new software which forces you to update your OS for compatibility.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 30, 2018 7:40:22 GMT -6
That’s another consideration with Hackintosh builds. Only certain hardware is compatible. And that might change with every OS version. Speaking of OS, every system update breaks the hack, and you’ll need to tweak things again, with who knows how many bugs. That was a major PITA, especially if you’re after new software which forces you to update your OS for compatibility. This is by far the most important part of a Hackintosh. It's also an issue indie pointed out early with support. Apple might stop support for a certain mobo you pick. That all said, I had a buddy build one and haven't heard of any issues. But I haven't really asked him about it in the last 3 years. I agree it is a tempting prospect. I know how to build PCs pretty well from back in the day of PC gaming and know how cheaply you can build an absolute POWER house of a rig for that these days for 1500 bucks. Especially when compared to a Mac. I am tempted to try and do it and retro fit it all in my old Mac Pro tower...
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Post by malkit on Mar 30, 2018 8:25:50 GMT -6
I've been running a hackintosh since my Mac Pro blew its power supply 8 years ago, and I'm in the process of building another as we speak. For the cautious amongst us, this probably isn't the best option. As others have said- updating breaks the hack, and if things don't work, you need to have a slightly techy/DIY mindset to get them working again. There is no 1-800 support line or Applecare. That said, there is excellent aftermarket support and a very healthy hackintosh community that has tried and diagnosed just about every hardware combination you can imagine. With a little elbow grease and a sense of adventure, you can easily put together a super computer for around 1500 USD that will last years. I built mine solely for recording, so no wifi or ethernet. I've been running Logic and Ableton for 8 years with pretty much no hiccups. DACs: Konnekt 48 and later Apollo. I installed multiple firewire ports in the back and even run a MOTU 828 solely for its DC-coupled outputs (to power my modular synths). No hiccups, no issues for me, but as always- your mileage will vary. You've probably come across this site in your travels, but this is the place to go: lifehacker.com/the-always-up-to-date-guide-to-building-a-hackintosh-o-5841604
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2018 10:29:58 GMT -6
A couple of my producer and mixer colleague’s and I are talking about the inevitable upgrade to a new rig, but I just can’t do the Trash can MacPro or the iMac Pro, it’s just too crazy expensive! But, I came across a post on some site about turning a custom built machine into solidly running Mac OS host. I did some digging and priced out what I’d call an absolute Monster machine from Amazon and it came out to around $1,400. To even get near that custom machine’s performance and specs, an Apple equivalent was over $6,500. So, I’d love to know if anyone is successfully doing this and exactly how solid does it run and can anyone point me to the real deal instructions on doing this. One of my colleagues is needing to do this in the next 2 weeks, if I can get some solid info, save him $5k, well that would make me feel reallly good as he had been one of the guys that has fed me mix jobs since I got going in town. Plus, I’m going to have to do this in the next 6 months too. Thanks!! Jerome Mason I built one some years ago with the same mindset. Have a powerful Mac at a fraction of the price. I wouldn’t do it again. If you build one for fun, that’s one thing. But if you’re building a machine that you depend on for stability and reliability, you should really think carefully about how much that’s worth to you. Especially if things go wrong. There is no support line to get your issues resolved. Every time I had weirdness going on with my system, it’s just one more (huge) variable to consider when troubleshooting. For me, it’s not worth it anymore. I need the stability. Why not look at used 2015-2017 iMacs? That’s probably what I’m going to do when I need a new computer.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2018 14:55:33 GMT -6
I built one some years ago with the same mindset. Have a powerful Mac at a fraction of the price. I wouldn’t do it again. If you build one for fun, that’s one thing. But if you’re building a machine that you depend on for stability and reliability, you should really think carefully about how much that’s worth to you. Especially if things go wrong. There is no support line to get your issues resolved. Every time I had weirdness going on with my system, it’s just one more (huge) variable to consider when troubleshooting. For me, it’s not worth it anymore. I need the stability. Why not look at used 2015-2017 iMacs? That’s probably what I’m going to do when I need a new computer. Don’t know what happened but I did not write this just an FYI JK knows! But for the price of a trashcan I could upgrade to a new full blown RADAR THATS NUTS! If thunderbolt is no issue grab a last Gen Cheese grater! I have no problem with Hackintosh, just remember at anytime Tim Cook can pull the rug out from under you and you are screwed!
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Post by clumsycongregation on Mar 30, 2018 16:54:27 GMT -6
Ive been using a hack for 6 years. As others have said, only do it if you are FULLY prepared to make it a study of yours. Every OS update requires caution. Despite the cost I plan to purchase an Apple computer next time simply because I don't want the extra labor and stress involved.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2018 18:57:19 GMT -6
Was there something else there you deleted, Eric? Because all I see is a quote from Jerome and indiehouse.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2018 18:59:16 GMT -6
Ive been using a hack for 6 years. As others have said, only do it if you are FULLY prepared to make it a study of yours. Every OS update requires caution. Despite the cost I plan to purchase an Apple computer next time simply because I don't want the extra labor and stress involved. You know, considering he amount of work and importance, it’s not insane to spend $3k on a computer that’s going to last 5-7 years. I have a 2012 knock on wood. Cue failing computer.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2018 19:00:58 GMT -6
Was there something else there you deleted, Eric? Because all I see is a quote from Jerome and indiehouse. No that was it. I’m up in WI and using mostly my mothers old laptop with a dying monitor logged in and saw there was a post I didn’t do ! Wish me luck driving back tomorrow though snow!
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Post by Coil Audio on Apr 1, 2018 14:19:00 GMT -6
A couple of my producer and mixer colleague’s and I are talking about the inevitable upgrade to a new rig, but I just can’t do the Trash can MacPro or the iMac Pro, it’s just too crazy expensive! But, I came across a post on some site about turning a custom built machine into solidly running Mac OS host. I did some digging and priced out what I’d call an absolute Monster machine from Amazon and it came out to around $1,400. To even get near that custom machine’s performance and specs, an Apple equivalent was over $6,500. So, I’d love to know if anyone is successfully doing this and exactly how solid does it run and can anyone point me to the real deal instructions on doing this. One of my colleagues is needing to do this in the next 2 weeks, if I can get some solid info, save him $5k, well that would make me feel reallly good as he had been one of the guys that has fed me mix jobs since I got going in town. Plus, I’m going to have to do this in the next 6 months too. Thanks!! Jerome Mason I cant speak to the Amazon builder - but ive probably built around 25 or so TDM HD4 PCIX (yes, i said pcix) machines running 10.8.5/PTHD10 since 2012 for various friends, producers, and studios. All based on the GA-P75-D3 motherboard/i5 3570k processor and TonyMacs Unibeast/Multibeast applications. ALL of these machines are still running today and as far as software goes - some great plugins still come in RTAS (Fab Filter, Ozone, Valhalla etc) but im not really a plugin/software update chaser. i just need to be able to work reliably and work fast. I use many hardware inserts during mixing and stuff and often track things like guitar overdubs in the control room- so when i hit INPUT on the track -i want to hear the 'input' instead of chasing some stupid LLM lane with a 3rd party 'console' or routing application running in the background. So its a personal preference for me to stay in the TDM world for its ease of use and mindless ability to make records. What the naysayers seem to always conveniently forget is that even with apple 'certified' hardware and OS that things can get dodgy or downright nasty right after a new update or install. I know more people that have experienced serious downtime (and lost $$$ and clients as a result) with the newest/latest/greatest Mac/interfaces/plugin bundles than anyone using a stable hack. My personal client policy is a 'zero downtime or die' one and the hackintosh has made this financially viable since having a second redundant machine around is still cheaper than any single certified apple equivalent. Still - i have the occasional guy that desperately needs his Slate Bundle to work so i have a cheap $200 2012 macmini with dual SSD/16gb RAM running native 11 to satisfy the baby with an AAX bottle. When you consider that you can put together a 24i/o HD4 TDM rig with a pair of 192 interfaces and said 'hack' with 32gb RAM/many SSDs on an i5 3570k for around 2k (current 2018 price). Its sort of a no-brainer. Id rather spend money on gear that doesn't lose its value by 50% as soon as i buy it and just keep working on machines i can fix myself until the next marketplace 'tank' occurs. In the meantime - records are made. Good Luck on your quest!
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 1, 2018 14:32:04 GMT -6
I find it odd there's so little choice from the company the founded computers for creatives.
I was looking at a new computer for later in the year and there's the Trash Can Mac Pro which hasn't been updated for many, many years or there's an iMac Pro which is still an "all-in-one" PC even though it has great spec, plus the iMac Pro here in the UK costs about as much as a decent second hand family car!
It leaves me looking at another Windows machine.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 1, 2018 17:17:48 GMT -6
A couple of my producer and mixer colleague’s and I are talking about the inevitable upgrade to a new rig, but I just can’t do the Trash can MacPro or the iMac Pro, it’s just too crazy expensive! But, I came across a post on some site about turning a custom built machine into solidly running Mac OS host. I did some digging and priced out what I’d call an absolute Monster machine from Amazon and it came out to around $1,400. To even get near that custom machine’s performance and specs, an Apple equivalent was over $6,500. So, I’d love to know if anyone is successfully doing this and exactly how solid does it run and can anyone point me to the real deal instructions on doing this. One of my colleagues is needing to do this in the next 2 weeks, if I can get some solid info, save him $5k, well that would make me feel reallly good as he had been one of the guys that has fed me mix jobs since I got going in town. Plus, I’m going to have to do this in the next 6 months too. Thanks!! Jerome Mason I cant speak to the Amazon builder - but ive probably built around 25 or so TDM HD4 PCIX (yes, i said pcix) machines running 10.8.5/PTHD10 since 2012 for various friends, producers, and studios. All based on the GA-P75-D3 motherboard/i5 3570k processor and TonyMacs Unibeast/Multibeast applications. ALL of these machines are still running today and as far as software goes - some great plugins still come in RTAS (Fab Filter, Ozone, Valhalla etc) but im not really a plugin/software update chaser. i just need to be able to work reliably and work fast. I use many hardware inserts during mixing and stuff and often track things like guitar overdubs in the control room- so when i hit INPUT on the track -i want to hear the 'input' instead of chasing some stupid LLM lane with a 3rd party 'console' or routing application running in the background. So its a personal preference for me to stay in the TDM world for its ease of use and mindless ability to make records. What the naysayers seem to always conveniently forget is that even with apple 'certified' hardware and OS that things can get dodgy or downright nasty right after a new update or install. I know more people that have experienced serious downtime (and lost $$$ and clients as a result) with the newest/latest/greatest Mac/interfaces/plugin bundles than anyone using a stable hack. My personal client policy is a 'zero downtime or die' one and the hackintosh has made this financially viable since having a second redundant machine around is still cheaper than any single certified apple equivalent. Still - i have the occasional guy that desperately needs his Slate Bundle to work so i have a cheap $200 2012 macmini with dual SSD/16gb RAM running native 11 to satisfy the baby with an AAX bottle. When you consider that you can put together a 24i/o HD4 TDM rig with a pair of 192 interfaces and said 'hack' with 32gb RAM/many SSDs on an i5 3570k for around 2k (current 2018 price). Its sort of a no-brainer. Id rather spend money on gear that doesn't lose its value by 50% as soon as i buy it and just keep working on machines i can fix myself until the next marketplace 'tank' occurs. In the meantime - records are made. Good Luck on your quest! I bought that mobo w/ the same intent! Never ended up building it as I was given pci-e cards and an HD10 license. $350 cheese grater has been completely adequate, but I’m not running any VIs on it. But I’ll stay in TDM as long as I can, it’s been great for my work.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Apr 1, 2018 18:45:10 GMT -6
A new “modular” Mac Pro was announced last year, but no solid timeline. I’m sure it’ll cost a fortune, so probably not worth considering for someone thinking about a hackintosh.
I have a hackintosh, but it was extremely aggravating to get it running, although it would be much easier on a purpose built machine with proven components.
I’m torn between a new hackintosh and a top of the line MacBook Pro, which would easily be powerful enough for any studio work, especially after the rumored refresh later this year. Cost would be half of an iMac pro. Another option may be a used trash can which will no doubt plummet once the new Pro gets announced.
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Post by Quint on Apr 1, 2018 19:31:12 GMT -6
THIS is why I'm so glad Windows/PC finally started supporting TB. I kicked around building a Hackintosh for about two years, but never could manage to pull the trigger on a Hack build because of the concerns stated in this thread. I just spent $2500 building a really high powered PC that should be more than capable of handling Nebula/Acqua and any VIs I can throw at it AND cost me considerably less than a comparably equipped Mac. Spending $5000 or more on a Mac these days just seems like throwing money away.
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Post by Coil Audio on Apr 1, 2018 23:30:41 GMT -6
I cant speak to the Amazon builder - but ive probably built around 25 or so TDM HD4 PCIX (yes, i said pcix) machines running 10.8.5/PTHD10 since 2012 for various friends, producers, and studios. All based on the GA-P75-D3 motherboard/i5 3570k processor and TonyMacs Unibeast/Multibeast applications. ALL of these machines are still running today and as far as software goes - some great plugins still come in RTAS (Fab Filter, Ozone, Valhalla etc) but im not really a plugin/software update chaser. i just need to be able to work reliably and work fast. I use many hardware inserts during mixing and stuff and often track things like guitar overdubs in the control room- so when i hit INPUT on the track -i want to hear the 'input' instead of chasing some stupid LLM lane with a 3rd party 'console' or routing application running in the background. So its a personal preference for me to stay in the TDM world for its ease of use and mindless ability to make records. What the naysayers seem to always conveniently forget is that even with apple 'certified' hardware and OS that things can get dodgy or downright nasty right after a new update or install. I know more people that have experienced serious downtime (and lost $$$ and clients as a result) with the newest/latest/greatest Mac/interfaces/plugin bundles than anyone using a stable hack. My personal client policy is a 'zero downtime or die' one and the hackintosh has made this financially viable since having a second redundant machine around is still cheaper than any single certified apple equivalent. Still - i have the occasional guy that desperately needs his Slate Bundle to work so i have a cheap $200 2012 macmini with dual SSD/16gb RAM running native 11 to satisfy the baby with an AAX bottle. When you consider that you can put together a 24i/o HD4 TDM rig with a pair of 192 interfaces and said 'hack' with 32gb RAM/many SSDs on an i5 3570k for around 2k (current 2018 price). Its sort of a no-brainer. Id rather spend money on gear that doesn't lose its value by 50% as soon as i buy it and just keep working on machines i can fix myself until the next marketplace 'tank' occurs. In the meantime - records are made. Good Luck on your quest! I bought that mobo w/ the same intent! Never ended up building it as I was given pci-e cards and an HD10 license. $350 cheese grater has been completely adequate, but I’m not running any VIs on it. But I’ll stay in TDM as long as I can, it’s been great for my work. Yeah, you can slap together a pretty snappy cheese grater for about the same bucks anymore. I just like to be able to service the machine with parts i can get same day from Amazon if necessary. I can run VI's all day long so no issues there really, unless someone needs the latest and greatest (which usually wont run on 10 anyway). Call me crazy but i actually prefer the 'sound' of the TDM buss - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by popmann on Apr 2, 2018 13:03:18 GMT -6
I don't think that's crazy at all...I've long preferred the sound of fixed bit digital summing over floating point....at least in implementation.
My question for you, though--would be why not Windows? Is ProTools 10 (with a TDM rig) really that bad a differential in performance ? Natively, I didn't experience any differential of note with PT10. I actually gave some thought to the commercial potential of a business that sells rigs configured AS hosts for old TDM rigs. Obviously, that couldn't be sold with OSX on it, though I'd bet one can ship an extra hard drive that can be plugged in by the user, ehm....call it a "NRA loophole"....
I can't see a point in building a Hackintosh for an (Native) DAW that isn't Logic. Sure--if your TDM system actually works better....I'll give you that--but, I think people build Hacks primarily to sort of "save money on the purchase of the computer" is a fool's errand. Whether you're buildign a new modern machien that can still use your 20 year old PCIx TDM system (or frankly brand new cutting edge HDX system) or building a system that can SILENTLY AT FULL LOAD run Logic with PCIe audio/midi, racked up with multiple internal drives for a one room songwriter studio--there are reasons to build a Hack. But, not because you want to save some short term cash on the computer purchase.
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Post by Coil Audio on Apr 2, 2018 14:38:23 GMT -6
I don't think that's crazy at all...I've long preferred the sound of fixed bit digital summing over floating point....at least in implementation. My question for you, though--would be why not Windows? Is ProTools 10 (with a TDM rig) really that bad a differential in performance ? Natively, I didn't experience any differential of note with PT10. I actually gave some thought to the commercial potential of a business that sells rigs configured AS hosts for old TDM rigs. Obviously, that couldn't be sold with OSX on it, though I'd bet one can ship an extra hard drive that can be plugged in by the user, ehm....call it a "NRA loophole".... I can't see a point in building a Hackintosh for an (Native) DAW that isn't Logic. Sure--if your TDM system actually works better....I'll give you that--but, I think people build Hacks primarily to sort of "save money on the purchase of the computer" is a fool's errand. Whether you're buildign a new modern machien that can still use your 20 year old PCIx TDM system (or frankly brand new cutting edge HDX system) or building a system that can SILENTLY AT FULL LOAD run Logic with PCIe audio/midi, racked up with multiple internal drives for a one room songwriter studio--there are reasons to build a Hack. But, not because you want to save some short term cash on the computer purchase. I started with Windows when i learned PT in the early 2000's and as soon as i did a few PowerMac installs of it and used it on a mac (G4) - i never looked back. Im just not a huge fan of the base code - sure if you checklist all the stuff you need to turn off/on etc and set some keyboard macros to act like an apple - you can get there (well, sort of) but theres always some hiccup that requires attention and time. If you are a commercial studio owner - delays mean loss. I wouldnt say its a fools errand necessarily - Obviously, Hackintoshing is not for everyone - i made a few before stumbling onto the Gigabyte mobo mentioned above and they were just as tricky and buggy as Windows so it made little sense to continue forcing OS X upon some random ASUS mobo that barely runs it. Although it was fun to make it work even a little bit. The stability of the Gigabyte board mentioned above however offered ENORMOUS cash savings for those i built them for (including myself) - the ability to use an Intel processor with PCIX cards running OS X (10.6-10.9) is a YUGE gain. Playing by the rules of Apple - that PCIX setup typically straps one to a PowerMac G5, Leopard (10.5), and PT8 HD - which maxes out to 8 gb RAM and no TRIM support for SSD's. The recommendation of Apple/Avid/Digi was to trade in your PCIX for PCIe (same card with less teeth at a trade in price that was well, less than desirable) and upgrade to a new Intel cheese grater (well you spent 5k on a PPC 4 years ago, how bout another 5k for 4 more years !!- BOO!!). Anyone that spent 20k + on HD TDM in 2002 feels the pain of being left out to dry and the ability to extend that products life another 10 years on an OS/PT version that supports most of the modern plugin architecture is certainly a value. Half the machines i built on that mobo are in working commercial facilities and are about to turn 8 yrs old and are showing no signs of wear. One such place has 3 rooms based around HD4 TDM with 48i/o - in 2012 they were quoted some INSANE number (around 60k) to upgrade it all to HDX with half the i/o running on 2010 cheesegraters. Instead. they replaced all 3 of their G5 PPCs at 10% of the quoted price for HDX replacement and kept right on chugging along - so yeah, i think it saved them some money as well as doubled the life of their TDM hardware and allowed them to jump to 10HD as well as the other perks of Intel processor life. Honestly - Sierra and High Sierra are so loaded down, you could make a great argument that Windows in this day and age is equal in that annoyance and so the difference is minimal. Still, i know many people building hackintoshes for commercial 4k video editing and VO that are 100% as stable as the $5000 trashcan or iMac. All for around $1000-$1500 plus all the extra expansion ports and options for better video cards is another huge plus. You just have to do the homework, which more than likely, has already been done by someone out in the world. (EDIT: It looks like Apple is returning to a proprietary processor in 2020 so all hackintoshing will probably end there - www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-mac-intel/apple-plans-to-replace-intel-chips-in-macs-with-its-own-bloomberg-idUSKCN1H91N5 )
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 2, 2018 15:50:36 GMT -6
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Post by plinker on Apr 2, 2018 17:27:03 GMT -6
As Coil Audio mentioned, you need the boot loader software from TonyMacx86.com. That site will steer you straight to success. For your first hack, don't go crazy with options. Keep the hardware to the known-to-be-easy units, and it should go smoothly for you.
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Post by rowmat on Apr 3, 2018 13:06:53 GMT -6
No doubt Apple will quickly abandon support for its Intel machines after 2020 to try and force users to upgrade to their new (overpriced for certain) hardware. Once Apple does this I'm done with Apple. I did wonder whether or not this was an April Fools gotcha that was a little slow to go viral?
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Post by Quint on Apr 3, 2018 18:25:07 GMT -6
I see that Intel just dropped the licensing fees for TB. I imagine we'll start seeing a proliferation of TB equipped PCs now. Yet one more reason why overpriced Macs won't be "necessary" anymore.
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Post by popmann on Apr 3, 2018 19:16:37 GMT -6
Why does anyone care about Thunderbolt support on Windows (or a Hackintosh) where you can still use the superior technology?
PCIe is better in literally every technical way for audio production....it's not like Thunderbolt is somehow better tech than PCIe. It's just better than like Firewire.
I mean, unless you're looking to configure a mobile recording rig, I don't see the attraction.
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