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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2017 19:49:04 GMT -6
Kcat is an evil temptress. I will have the Apollo here too. I don’t have any doubt it’s going to be better, it’s just going to be interesting to see how much better. I’ve really been happy with the Svartbox and the Apollo (as a dongle), but I just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to check it out. I’ll give my thoughts on the DA. The AD is always harder to judge and will probably take time to garner observations. I remember the combo of the Focal Twins and the SmkI...and the Listening experience was just stunning. Just a killer three dimensional phantom center and super smooth on the bottom and top. The mids were a labyrinth though...which was more the speakers really. And that was he reason I sold them. Couldn’t get good translation. Anyway, looking forward to it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 10, 2017 21:17:18 GMT -6
Ah temptor, pulease !!
Enjoy!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 10, 2017 21:58:05 GMT -6
I've been curious about this too John. I'm glad you'll give it a try and look forward to your thoughts on it.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 11, 2017 5:49:13 GMT -6
I remember when I had the svart box demo at my spot, the top end and transient response was suuuuuper crispy compared to the symphony. but the symphony was waaaaaay more 3D sounding. Front back left right top bottom. svartbox couldn't compare to that. but the symphony's transient response was definitely slower, which was noticeable on drum stuff and hearing reverb tails. That was a Symphony MK1 tho, not the MK2. who knows what changed with the MK2 DA design. If you're used to hearing via the svart box, the symphony will sound like you're listening to some 2" tape playback through a console. at least, that's the comparison i've seen written.
I still use Focal Solo 6s + Symphony IO MK1 here at my spot. it just sounds really good.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 6:19:30 GMT -6
I remember liking the linearity of the svartbox in that shoot out that was posted a while back.
I know the Symphony MkII is just one of many good boxes out there. I just preferred it to my apollo and appreciate all its features: excellent and musical ad da, a really good headphone dac and amp, nice big monitor controller and while not critical, I do like the touchscreen. The new routing software is really good too.
After 2 apollo, a 2192 , Burl b2 and a dbox, the Symphony MkII just ties all those qualities up for me in one box.
When I sold my Octo and UA plugs and saw the 16x16 on gs: bought it without hesitation.
I hope JK enjoys his symphony journey: I am !
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Post by mikec on Nov 11, 2017 7:40:32 GMT -6
I am kind of in the same boat as Kcat, after a metric halo ULN8, an Apollo 8P, Apollo 8, & Apollo 16, the Symphony MKII 16x16 into the 2Bus+ has become the best setup I've ever used and I've not once in the last 8 months lusted after another AD/DA box. Now if I could just stop lusting after the Chandler Limited Microphone I would be okay. I need to stop reading Martin's posts about microphones (not). He's the reason I bought the Soyuz SU-017 and I don't regret that decision for a minute. One of the best mics I've ever owned.
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Post by joseph on Nov 11, 2017 9:08:23 GMT -6
I remember liking the linearity of the svartbox in that shoot out that was posted a while back. I know the Symphony MkII is just one of many good boxes out there. I just preferred it to my apollo and appreciate all its features: excellent and musical ad da, a really good headphone dac and amp, nice big monitor controller and while not critical, I do like the touchscreen. The new routing software is really good too. After 2 apollo, a 2192 , Burl b2 and a dbox, the Symphony MkII just ties all those qualities up for me in one box. When I sold my Octo and UA plugs and saw the 16x16 on gs: bought it without hesitation. I hope JK enjoys his symphony journey: I am ! If the Symphony MKII constant current headphone amp is basically the same design as the Groove, then it's a winner. For checking things on my laptop, I got a Groove on sale from GC and it's a step up from the MKI headphone amps. The separation is clearer and the bass very noticeably tighter with HD650s. Actually I even tried it with my Questeds set to -10dbu and the bass was also tighter than the Symphony MKI DAC. Size was perhaps smaller but to be honest may be useful for judging the low end, since the Questeds are so immersive anyway. You can trust my opinions a little more because I am still pissed at Apogee for the MKI debacle.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 9:51:31 GMT -6
I understood the groove and mkii headphone are identical: last year with a new mkii purchase Apogee was giving people free Grooves with that marketing spin I think.
Apogee has them refurb in their online store but still like $250 usd. I think I have seen them cheaper in their store so didn't order one when I ordered my refurb 16x16.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 11, 2017 9:55:07 GMT -6
I remember how soft the top of the Symphony mkI I had was...which will be interesting for mixing...I wonder how that will affect how I mix. Honestly, I'm not just totally convinced I will keep it...I had a Hilo here and directly compared to the SB...and while I thought it was subjectively tighter on bottom and possibly a little smoother on the top, I didn't feel like it would change the way I mix. By that I mean - it didn't seem like I was hearing differences in the frequencies - just differences in the qualities of the frequencies...not really sure how else to describe it. Never really thought I would say this about myself - but I think my philosophy has changed. I don't know if I'm willing to pay an extra $2000 for barely perceptible difference. I used to not be able to sleep at night knowing there was something better...but now I think, "damn, for that I could have 3 of those Heritage Elite 1073EQs..." (I've already started thinking about that.) So...I'm kind of hoping I can live without it.
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Post by joseph on Nov 11, 2017 9:58:42 GMT -6
I understood the groove and mkii headphone are identical: last year with a new mkii pruchae apogee was giving people free Groove's with that marketing spin I think. Apogee has them refurb in their online store but still like $250 usd. I think I have seen them cheaper in their store so didn't order one when I ordered my refurb 16x16. I got mine for 179 from Guitar Center. Still says call for pricing online. Funny thing the day before it said 295.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 10:00:38 GMT -6
good price !
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 11, 2017 10:24:47 GMT -6
I paid $131 on some Amazon flash deal. Cool box for little dough.
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 11, 2017 11:27:48 GMT -6
I remember how soft the top of the Symphony mkI I had was...which will be interesting for mixing...I wonder how that will affect how I mix. Honestly, I'm not just totally convinced I will keep it...I had a Hilo here and directly compared to the SB...and while I thought it was subjectively tighter on bottom and possibly a little smoother on the top, I didn't feel like it would change the way I mix. By that I mean - it didn't seem like I was hearing differences in the frequencies - just differences in the qualities of the frequencies...not really sure how else to describe it. Never really thought I would say this about myself - but I think my philosophy has changed. I don't know if I'm willing to pay an extra $2000 for barely perceptible difference. I used to not be able to sleep at night knowing there was something better...but now I think, "damn, for that I could have 3 of those Heritage Elite 1073EQs..." (I've already started thinking about that.) So...I'm kind of hoping I can live without it. This is smart, man. I just did a converter comparison of my own, and the DA differences are subtle. The AD differences are even more subtle (except for the modded Ross Martin, different/better(?)). No offense to Kcat (or anyone else), but if you're claiming qualitative differences between these subtleties without having them side by side (let alone weeks or months apart), then Im gonna look at ya sideways, even though you may be right. You'd be guessing at best (or just repeating what you've read online). Having these next to each other to do a proper comparison is the only way to learn anything substantive. The Symphony is pretty great conversion, but so is having extra cash...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 11, 2017 11:41:04 GMT -6
I think the bottom line is it has to sound right to you, then, what it is matters very little. This is why I've been curious about the Symphony, it sounded right to me. It was holographic as compared to the two dimensional sound I get from my Apollo.
I listened to the BLA Micro Clock III on an Apollo at AES, and it got way better, almost the way a widener works. So my issue could be as simple as the clocking, but the Micro Clock ain't cheap. If it was $200, I'd grab one, but once you get up there, I'd rather put my money toward better mics.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 11, 2017 12:09:43 GMT -6
I think the bottom line is it has to sound right to you, then, what it is matters very little. This is why I've been curious about the Symphony, it sounded right to me. It was holographic as compared to the two dimensional sound I get from my Apollo. I listened to the BLA Micro Clock III on an Apollo at AES, and it got way better, almost the way a widener works. So my issue could be as simple as the clocking, but the Micro Clock ain't cheap. If it was $200, I'd grab one, but once you get up there, I'd rather put my money toward better mics. I had the BL Microclock III here...and I didn't think the stereo image changed at all. The only think I heard was the bottom being a little tighter. That being said, I think that was in comparison to the SB...But while the SB sounds objectively better than the BF Apollo, it's not a HUGE difference...so I'd be surprised if it were a dramatically different stereo image than the Apollo.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 11, 2017 12:19:52 GMT -6
It wasn't huge, but I was with Jamie Tate when listening to the BLA, and he said it was like a widener, and the rep said it's because it's just cleaner now. Still, it wasn't night and day.
I had the svartbox here for a week a while ago, and although it was a improvement over the Apollo, it didn't make enough of a difference for me to want to own it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 12:23:24 GMT -6
it’s so amusing when people tell you to ignore your listening experience:) I agree it’s hard to measure these differences we discuss but the proof is really in the pudding of our work: 100% of the people who have been listening to my work over the last 5 years or so all state that my current work is unquestionably my best and I agree with them. I trust what I am hearing with my Symphony MkII where as with my Apollos I was always struggling to discern what was going on i the mid to lower bass. My sense of soundstage again seems much more exact and precise with the Symphony MkII. So, bottom line is it’s working for me , as I’m paying the cost of being the boss of my tunes!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 11, 2017 13:11:50 GMT -6
it’s so amusing when people tell you to ignore your listening experience:) I agree it’s hard to measure these differences we discuss but the proof is really in the pudding of our work: 100% of the people who have been listening to my work over the last 5 years or so all state that my current work is unquestionably my best and I agree with them. I trust what I am hearing with my Symphony MkII where as with my Apollos I was always struggling to discern what was going on i the mid to lower bass. My sense of soundstage again seems much more exact and precise with the Symphony MkII. So, bottom line is it’s working for me , as I’m paying the cost of being the boss of my tunes! I think the improvements are more from other factors than the change in conversion. That's just me though.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 11, 2017 13:14:06 GMT -6
Johnkenn when you tested with the Twins, were they broken in?
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Post by guitfiddler on Nov 11, 2017 13:18:44 GMT -6
I like twins! Parties that never end, and, and twins!!! Lol., sorry couldn’t help it!
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 11, 2017 13:41:53 GMT -6
Johnkenn when you tested with the Twins, were they broken in? I had that setup for a while and they were used, so, yes...
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 13:55:59 GMT -6
it’s so amusing when people tell you to ignore your listening experience:) I agree it’s hard to measure these differences we discuss but the proof is really in the pudding of our work: 100% of the people who have been listening to my work over the last 5 years or so all state that my current work is unquestionably my best and I agree with them. I trust what I am hearing with my Symphony MkII where as with my Apollos I was always struggling to discern what was going on i the mid to lower bass. My sense of soundstage again seems much more exact and precise with the Symphony MkII. So, bottom line is it’s working for me , as I’m paying the cost of being the boss of my tunes! I think the improvements are more from other factors than the change in conversion. That's just me though. You can't improve what you can't hear. The apollo dac other than the top of the line I think is still considered a weak link ? Certainly, the Smkii doesn"t share that trait. Pretty certain I had my bf when I got the Smkii, so when I powered it up the first time everything else was the same , other than the db25 to trs cables to my bay in my chain and in my room, so I opened up the song I was working on. I remember really being struck by the soundstage difference and the depth, definitely discernible and apparent. Once I started working with it for mixing, that was when I realized I could make better informed decisions about the mix too.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,997
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Post by ericn on Nov 11, 2017 14:51:21 GMT -6
Cue a little Squeeze, how long shall this last ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 15:12:03 GMT -6
Ace ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 11, 2017 15:17:00 GMT -6
oh why not; nice slow hand solo !!
super tight for live !!
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