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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 6, 2017 11:21:40 GMT -6
That's Dan's console.
Still available at the moment.
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Post by Ward on Feb 6, 2017 13:09:43 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm a couple grand short... We could go halfsies? But why would anyone ever need a full helios analog console? Better off with a new hybrid Neve or SSL and just have some Helios modules/preamps. JMHO!!
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Post by rocinante on Feb 6, 2017 14:15:15 GMT -6
A track going line in through the entire thing is a beautiful thing. And I'll quote a helios console owner via one of his many emails explaining the summing structure
"Essentially if you were mixing back on a Helios. Recording you would have 5 stages of Amp Cards. Mixing you would have another 5, plus the final stage at the 2 track out. Unless you used the Tape Returns, which are only L-C-R, 5 position pan."
And thats why....
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Post by sozocaps on Feb 6, 2017 14:42:47 GMT -6
That will teach you to turn gear so much... When I find something I like I keep it forever and if I want something else I start saving LOL...
Not so easy getting these quality pieces sometimes....
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 6, 2017 17:07:10 GMT -6
"A track going line in through the entire thing is a beautiful thing. And I'll quote a helios console owner via one of his many emails explaining the summing structure
"Essentially if you were mixing back on a Helios. Recording you would have 5 stages of Amp Cards. Mixing you would have another 5, plus the final stage at the 2 track out. Unless you used the Tape Returns, which are only L-C-R, 5 position pan." And thats why....
Funny enough, I was talking to a Helios person this morning, and he made it very clear, how much better he thought the monitor returns sounded, then running everything back thru the console. And I've heard this about Neves, Tridents, etc, also So here we go, once again, do we like the color, or do we like it clean?
Depending on who you speak to, this argument never ends.
Although personally, I agree with "A track going line in through the entire console is a beautiful thing" To each his own.
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Post by spock on Feb 6, 2017 18:03:06 GMT -6
"A track going line in through the entire thing is a beautiful thing. And I'll quote a helios console owner via one of his many emails explaining the summing structure "Essentially if you were mixing back on a Helios. Recording you would have 5 stages of Amp Cards. Mixing you would have another 5, plus the final stage at the 2 track out. Unless you used the Tape Returns, which are only L-C-R, 5 position pan." And thats why.... Funny enough, I was talking to a Helios person this morning, and he made it very clear, how much better he thought the monitor returns sounded, then running everything back thru the console. And I've heard this about Neves, Tridents, etc, also So here we go, once again, do we like the color, or do we like it clean? Depending on who you speak to, this argument never ends. Although personally, I agree with "A track going line in through the entire console is a beautiful thing" To each his own. H, would talk about the bare-wire nature of it and mixing via the monitor section. However, we would always commit to a sound going in.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 6, 2017 18:20:02 GMT -6
Also, Henry's console is a bit different in that it now has Cinemag transformers, as he and Dave Amels thought the original Beyers sounded pretty small. (And at our Helios listening test at my place a few years ago... everyone agreed, the Beyers were pale in comparison to everything else)
And if I'm not mistaken, Henry's console has NO Phantom Power, and had all the transformer tapped at 50 ohms, to better control dynamic, and ribbon mics.
If needed he would have his guys, wire mic's to match that specific ohmage.
Had things customized the way he like to work.
A beautiful thing !
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Post by spock on Feb 6, 2017 22:14:20 GMT -6
Also, Henry's console is a bit different in that it now has Cinemag transformers, as he and Dave Amels thought the original Beyers sounded pretty small. (And at our Helios listening test at my place a few years ago... everyone agreed, the Beyers were pale in comparison to everything else) And if I'm not mistaken, Henry's console has NO Phantom Power, and had all the transformer tapped at 50 ohms, to better control dynamic, and ribbon mics. If needed he would have his guys, wire mic's to match that specific ohmage. Had things customized the way he like to work. A beautiful thing ! You know, it's funny...I never really think about the Phantom thing, mostly because we used lots of dynamics, several in fact I had procured off of evilbay to experiment with. Outside of the dynamics, it was the U47, M49 (sadly sold off,) Ku3As (one I later sold,) KM56, and a Crowley and Tripp El Diablo (he loved for guitar, we also sold). Everything else was always dynamics, and a few shotgun mics. Oh, though there was a Sony C37p he loved under the snare. We had a special custom-made Dave Amels 4 channel tube pre up in the live room and all else hit the Helios pres. The Beyer transformers were indeed swapped for cinemags. I did wire some of the older dynamics for 50 ohms if they could be, like the salt-shaker etc... I'll always miss the church.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 7, 2017 7:40:08 GMT -6
Say 3 Hail Mary's....
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,977
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Post by ericn on Feb 7, 2017 10:20:31 GMT -6
Also, Henry's console is a bit different in that it now has Cinemag transformers, as he and Dave Amels thought the original Beyers sounded pretty small. (And at our Helios listening test at my place a few years ago... everyone agreed, the Beyers were pale in comparison to everything else) And if I'm not mistaken, Henry's console has NO Phantom Power, and had all the transformer tapped at 50 ohms, to better control dynamic, and ribbon mics. If needed he would have his guys, wire mic's to match that specific ohmage. Had things customized the way he like to work. A beautiful thing ! You know, it's funny...I never really think about the Phantom thing, mostly because we used lots of dynamics, several in fact I had procured off of evilbay to experiment with. Outside of the dynamics, it was the U47, M49 (sadly sold off,) Ku3As (one I later sold,) KM56, and a Crowley and Tripp El Diablo (he loved for guitar, we also sold). Everything else was always dynamics, and a few shotgun mics. Oh, though there was a Sony C37p he loved under the snare. We had a special custom-made Dave Amels 4 channel tube pre up in the live room and all else hit the Helios pres. The Beyer transformers were indeed swapped for cinemags. I did wire some of the older dynamics for 50 ohms if they could be, like the salt-shaker etc... I'll always miss the church. You mean I'm not the only one who has to try a strange interesting dynamic!
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Post by spock on Feb 7, 2017 10:28:02 GMT -6
You know, it's funny...I never really think about the Phantom thing, mostly because we used lots of dynamics, several in fact I had procured off of evilbay to experiment with. Outside of the dynamics, it was the U47, M49 (sadly sold off,) Ku3As (one I later sold,) KM56, and a Crowley and Tripp El Diablo (he loved for guitar, we also sold). Everything else was always dynamics, and a few shotgun mics. Oh, though there was a Sony C37p he loved under the snare. We had a special custom-made Dave Amels 4 channel tube pre up in the live room and all else hit the Helios pres. The Beyer transformers were indeed swapped for cinemags. I did wire some of the older dynamics for 50 ohms if they could be, like the salt-shaker etc... I'll always miss the church. You mean I'm not the only one who has to try a strange interesting dynamic! You have a dynamic fetish... lol A lot of dynamics are so great and overlooked, though as you know, paired with a great preamp they can be so awesome.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 7, 2017 21:47:47 GMT -6
I believe Patrick still has the Church, I should call up there and see what he's got planned for it?
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Post by kilroyrock on Feb 7, 2017 22:10:06 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Feb 8, 2017 6:16:05 GMT -6
Hmmm... only $1325? Tempting.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2017 6:39:47 GMT -6
It's the regular module, not 500. I've considered that, but I can't get a straight answer out of them as to whether they have those in stock either. I assume since it's on eBay, it's available. Add in (at the minimum) $600 for a single space rack. So - $2000 as compared to $1325.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 11, 2017 15:17:14 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Feb 12, 2017 9:18:40 GMT -6
At tis point, c0rtland is starting to hurt my feelings too!
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Post by c0rtland on Feb 13, 2017 11:55:05 GMT -6
Come on girls...
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Post by rocinante on Feb 13, 2017 13:20:29 GMT -6
John I'd build you a nice rack for less than $600. And i know these modules need a throne worthy of what they hold. A throne with vu metering.
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Post by rocinante on Feb 14, 2017 8:13:18 GMT -6
"A track going line in through the entire thing is a beautiful thing. And I'll quote a helios console owner via one of his many emails explaining the summing structure "Essentially if you were mixing back on a Helios. Recording you would have 5 stages of Amp Cards. Mixing you would have another 5, plus the final stage at the 2 track out. Unless you used the Tape Returns, which are only L-C-R, 5 position pan." And thats why.... Funny enough, I was talking to a Helios person this morning, and he made it very clear, how much better he thought the monitor returns sounded, then running everything back thru the console. And I've heard this about Neves, Tridents, etc, also So here we go, once again, do we like the color, or do we like it clean? Depending on who you speak to, this argument never ends. Although personally, I agree with "A track going line in through the entire console is a beautiful thing" To each his own. Yep numerous times I've heard the same. And it makes sense since sometimes in older boards Neve, Helios, etc... they used the very same cards or variants of them in their monitor section as they did in their line amp or summing section; transformers included! For Neve it was dependent on the console and in certain Helios the 22113 was the summing amp card but no matter what the monitor or effect send or 2 track was going to have a familiar and awesome amp section. Such awesome stuff.
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Post by roundbadge on Feb 15, 2017 4:05:44 GMT -6
Having had the Tony Arnold re issues, 4 realios and 4 original Island Basing 3 band lustraphone modules(yes identical to the ones used on early Zep ,Stones etc)I can say for me the whole Helios thing is kinda overhyped. The pre amps alone were good,darker rounder,less detail than neves and apis. The eq was real cool for boosting mids,but in the end having spent a lot of dough on all these different variants I'm not feeling any "holy grailness" with these anymore. Also the realios were quite a bit cleaner than the vintage modules.i liked them mainly because they had a shitload of gain and more headroom than Tony's modules. Also for the record the "type 69" thing was all marketing from Tony Arnold when he re issued them. The original 3 band lustraphone modules were called 0011's,not "type 69".marketing hype hype hype. When is got my chandler Redds I did a lot of comparisons with the old Helios,my vintage 1084's and API's Honestly the old Helios were good but I was kinda "whatever" at that point.the obsession has passed.
I'm honestly really happy with the Redds,Neves,capis and now the Skibbe Flickingers.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 15, 2017 5:32:33 GMT -6
Having had the Tony Arnold re issues, 4 realios and 4 original Island Basing 3 band lustraphone modules(yes identical to the ones used on early Zep ,Stones etc)I can say for me the whole Helios thing is kinda overhyped. The pre amps alone were good,darker rounder,less detail than neves and apis. The eq was real cool for boosting mids,but in the end having spent a lot of dough on all these different variants I'm not feeling any "holy grailness" with these anymore. Also the realios were quite a bit cleaner than the vintage modules.i liked them mainly because they had a shitload of gain and more headroom than Tony's modules. Also for the record the "type 69" thing was all marketing from Tony Arnold when he re issued them. The original 3 band lustraphone modules were called 0011's,not "type 69".marketing hype hype hype. When is got my chandler Redds I did a lot of comparisons with the old Helios,my vintage 1084's and API's Honestly the old Helios were good but I was kinda "whatever" at that point.the obsession has passed. I'm honestly really happy with the Redds,Neves,capis and now the Skibbe Flickingers. You sold your original A-Range pair too right? Didn't care for those?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2017 7:20:13 GMT -6
I thought you sold your Helios' years ago?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2017 7:28:03 GMT -6
I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again - "I'm not saying this is rational." There are a ton of reasons NOT to like these reissues, but well, I just do. I think it's the basic tone of the pre that I like. A little forward in the bottom and lower mids...then a variety of upper mid eq points that actually sound good when boosting or is handy to cut in something like a vocal. And the top seems more relaxed than a Neve or API...although the VP28s are a different bird.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 15, 2017 7:41:18 GMT -6
I keep thinking there are SO MANY much less expensive vintage options that will do the same or similar, and plenty you would like better. If I tried to sell all the 3rd rate broadcast gear with similar basic circuits they'd never move, yet probably sound about the same.
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